32 replies to this topic

[TWoP Mars]

From ABCMediaNet.com:

Now that Nick has agreed to defend Letitia in the murder case of Dutch George - Nick's father and Letitia's secret lover - he is disturbed to learn that his estranged mother is on prosecutor Nola Lyons' witness list. Meanwhile, because they have to keep their affair a secret, Jeremy surprises Nola with a private concert by the Weepies; Patrick plans to clear his conscience about his wife's death, but Tripp dissuades him in a shocking way during a senatorial debate moderated by Dan Rather; Brian goes to Brazil to kidnap Brian Jr.; and Simon and Karen continue their loving ways, still unclear if one is plotting against the other.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Oct 22, 2008 @ 11:47 PM.

[FaithW]

I'm surprised that Nick didn't come home to an empty house! So expected Lisa to have only left that message with Karen.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Oct 23, 2008 @ 4:31 AM.

[ImNotLeesa]

This was my favorite episode so far this season – lots of great interactions, and lots of things happening, plus we got more info on what the characters are doing.

Loved the Brian story line. Everything from his confrontation with Nick (they did a walk and talk!) to his pilgrimage to save Brian Jr, to his understanding of Andrea – he seemed to grow a lot this episode. Also, I loved little Brian overthinking things and overhearing his parents having a positive interaction. Oh, and Brian’s suits, also goodness.

Yay! that Leticia returned this week with a vengeance – Jill Clayburgh really had some meat to work with this episode and did a great job. I think Tish was sincere about her love for Nick (the way I thought Tripp was last season). She’s still “socialite trapped in her house” cold, but her depth of feeling for Nick came through. If only she could show more of that with her own children. Have we had a single scene of her with any of them this season?

The Nick visits his mother storyline seemed a little clunky at first when Nick was packing to go, but once I got into it, I well, got really sucked into it. We got a chance to see how damaged Nick was by being abandoned – Peter Krause really knocked it out of the park, especially in the scene when he decided to stay for dinner instead of returning to Paris. You could see the enormous pain and sadness the character felt get buried and transformed into anger and resolution, all while hiding his real identity from Clare’s new husband.

I’m a little worried that Karen’s really getting played at this point, though it seems like if she would just have a serious conversation with either Nick or Tripp that she could snap out of it. Still find Simon boring, only now he’s getting creepy, manipulative and boring. If he were a poor man, he would have show up in a wife-beater by now. I'm not sure I even care who he was talking with on the phone when Karen came in. I hope TPTB move that storyline along quickly. Karen’s meet up with Lisa was really moving, though.

Downsides still are :

• whatever Jeremy’s doing: loved the Weepies, but still bored with Lucy Liu. Why does Jeremy have to be stuck with her? apart from every other character.
• the simplification of Tripp. DS’s artistry is such a gift to this show, but we just haven't seen it this season. I hope they let this character expand again like they did last year. From what we’ve seen of him so far this season, a cardboard DS cutout and tape recorder of his voice could have the same impact. (That is NOT, in any way, a knock on DS. The writers did such a great job with that character last season; I can't figure out what drummer they're marching to with the character this season.)
• where's Lisa's cute hair? - very superficial, I know, but her flat hair this week was just no fun :-(
• speaking of whom, where is NoFun? and why no mention of her and the Brian-ettes?

Interesting that Nick re-connected with Tish and Kiki when he returned, but not Lisa. Also interesting that Lisa was sleeping on Nick’s side of the bed (she missed him? She’s learning to do without him? ) I wonder if he’s starting to equate her with his own mother (woman married to the Darlings' lawyer who can't deal with it), and start shut off his emotional life from her they way he did without Clare. Very sad. Also, Lisa's comment that Nick never reconnected with his mother until the Darlings asked kind of annoyed because a) he had just finished telling a story about trying to and b) it's a lot easier to confront your mother, who lives on another continent, if you, you know, have the money to fly off to the other continent to confront her. Maybe Lisa has a fair point, but the show chose a poor way to present it.

Best episode so far this season, IMHO. The show is still missing (and I’m missing) the humor and complex insight / characterizations that were so much a part of the first season (are these the ‘indie elements’ Steve MacPherson wanted to get rid of? If so, I completely disagree with him) but this episode started to give me hope that our show isn’t lost, just re-finding its footing.


Edited to add
Oh ..and Ron Glass! How did I forget to mention Shepherd Book?
(like this post wasn't already long enough already :-) )

Edited by ImNotLeesa, Oct 22, 2008 @ 11:06 PM.

[Chernarmyl]

I have less invested in half these characters than I do in the DOW. This show's primary concern is now teasing out questions such as: who will run the family business? and which family member murdered the father? and will the politician lie to win? and who's playing whom? and has Lucy Liu ever seen how a real lawyer dresses?

Craig Wright's idea of examining how money affects actual people and constrains them as much as it liberates them -- which I thought was the show's central theme -- is still present, but it's being overwhelmed by soap. Simon Elder is an entire character who exists, since his arrival, just to manipulate and scheme. Even good cartoonish schemers have essential personalities; Elder is just dull and centerless. Poor Patrick has been written as so without basic kindness that it's hard to imagine him loving Carmelita. When the writers don't allow him to show any genuine feeling about his wife -- when they make a point that he has no feeling at all-- it's not that I'm outraged at the character, I just don't buy his love affair for Carmelita or his desire to come clean. If they're going to write him as patently having no feelings at all for Ellen, they need to be brave enough to see that through, don't they? A man who can't eulogize the mother of his children, and, in fact, manufactures feelings for votes and to please his father, does not come across as deeply in love with anybody in particular, just fearful and ambitious.

Especially since Sutherland may be the finest actor on the show, making him seem totally dishonest robs him of the considerable, wistful soul the character showed last year. We know he's a devious empire-maintainer -- but what happened to his reservations, his regrets, his ability, frankly, to have meaningful one-on-one conversations with anybody? Every time he talks this season it's to move a piece on a chess board. How are we supposed to care about him?

Brian is one of the bright spots right now -- he's funny, his story is about personal growth and the way his vast wealth impacts his family, all in relatively non-sensational circumstances. He's what the show should be like all the time. Not in an avoidance of huge reveals like political races or deaths, but in a focus on the struggle in each character and a kind of writing that doesn't drain the characters of their humanity. I said it before, but, think of the difference between Brian and Patrick? Fundamentally, it comes down to the writers expecting us, without basis, to think Patrick can also engage in soul-searching, even when he apparently can't. Nick has a great story, too, and Karen, who I could never stand before, is now emerging as one of the most sympathetic characters. When the show is about Nick, Karen, and Brian, it sings: anything else lags.

[mandigirl]

Yeah for Ron Glass! Even if he was only there for a millisecond.

I liked a lot about this episode, but I'm still concerned about the show as a whole. My main concerns are pretty familiar:

1. I didn't realize how much the subtlety in Tripp-Nick relationship was the heart of the show until it was gone.
Tripp's machinations last season seemed to genuinely come from a place of love. Now he just seems like a manipulative jack-ass.

2. I can't stand what they've done to Lisa. She used to have a job and interests. Now she's a broken record sitting around at home, constantly harping about the Darlings. She talks about them more than Nick does! I hope they have her leave Nick (and get a life) not because I dislike the character at all, but because I think it will make her character less pathetic and shrewish and also give Nick what he deserves.

3. Lucy Liu. The verdict is in-- she sucks the life out of her scenes. And this is coming from a person that actually likes her in other things she's done! She's just not cast properly, and her relationship with Jeremy has relegated him to a non-storyline. I mean can you really call hanging out at Nola's office, Nola's apartment and Nola's bed a storyline? I love Jeremy! Forget Ferris- Save Jeremy!

On a plus side, I loved the scene between Nick and Leticia at the end. And glad to see Brian Jr. and Brian as always!

ETA: I meant the scene with Nick and Leticia. Never post tired...

Edited by mandigirl, Oct 23, 2008 @ 11:48 PM.

[milner]

I was disappointed to hear Patrick be willing to throw Clark under the bus re the fire and more disappointed to see Nick not call him on it.

I must have nodded off--what scene between Tripp and Leticia?

Edited by milner, Oct 23, 2008 @ 12:37 AM.

[theponderer]

Given that there are so very few posts on this episode (and the show in general) I am heartbroken with the feeling the show will be gone soon.

BUT!!! The posts there are, is cherce! (I think you have to very old to understand that, so let me rephrase: COOL!, SMART!)

I loved the indie film-ness of the show last year, with the incredible allowing of moments for the characters to fully happen (Tripp and Nick and the briefcase was perfection, worth pondering and remembering forever), but am finding this season good enough to be cheering and rooting anyway.

The Nick and his mom fight is almost approaching the depth they allowed last year.

By the way, who plays Nick's Mom?

[TWoP Mars]

According to IMDb, it's Caroline Lagerfelt.

[Merlando]

Also, Lisa's comment that Nick never reconnected with his mother until the Darlings asked kind of annoyed because a) he had just finished telling a story about trying to and b) it's a lot easier to confront your mother, who lives on another continent, if you, you know, have the money to fly off to the other continent to confront her.

And, if I may, c) His mother chickening out of meeting him when he traveled so far to meet her for the first time since she ran out on him would surely cause enough emotional scarring to make any person NOT want to make the effort again unless they really really REALLY had to. Sure, going over for the defense of Tish Darling could be seen as rather flimsy and I do get Lisa's annoyance. But with the whole abandonment at a really young age and total snubbing soon after I wouldn't have been surprised if he would've only gone over there again if she died/was dying or if there was some horrible illness that needed some vital part of her. If Lisa really was trying to help him reconnect with his mother maybe a shrink would've been a good idea; the suppressed rage and near-Tripness of Nick's interactions with his mother really impressed and scared me. For a second I felt like he was going to hit her or throw something. I wonder if he may have idealized her as a woman who had to break free of the Darling's influence throughout his attempts to be his own man away from the family only to have that crushed by one visit with Tish and observance of her life without him.

Good rest of show, wish the Karen/Elder thing would just end already. And where is Brian's wife and other kids? They did nothing, but I miss them.

Edited by Merlando, Oct 23, 2008 @ 5:17 AM.

[redheader]

the suppressed rage and near-Tripness of Nick's interactions with his mother really impressed and scared me

I had the same reaction. Nick’s measured words and ability to be manipulative even while under such emotional duress was pure Tripp. I haven’t seen that from his before, and it makes me wonder what else he is hiding from us. Is he really so sure that Leticia didn’t kill Dutch? Then why not ask her about her phone call to his mother? I mean, while it certainly sounds delusional that Dutch would suddenly want to fly to Paris and be with the woman who left him thirty years earlier, we don’t know that it didn’t happen. I mean, Nick’s mother clearly had contact with Leticia, and she knew that Brian was Dutch’s son. So it’s not ridiculous to think that at least part of what she told Nick was true. If Nick was so sure that Leticia was innocent, why not ask her about it? Or does he want to hold on to the info for use at a later time? Or does he have evidence of Tripp or a third party being guilty that we haven’t seen yet?

It’s funny, because the thing that I like about this show is the thing that frustrates me. I like the fact that we’re not spoon-fed every character’s thought and intention. That can get predictable and heavy-handed. But the constant guessing is sometimes difficult, especially at the thought that the characters might not actually have any intentions, they might just be dumb. Like with Nick and his father’s murder, or Karen and Simon. I don’t have to see all the evidence that she’s playing him, but if she’s not, then the whole storyline is pretty stupid. Same thing with Jeremy and lady lawyer. I know Jeremy has a pattern of quickly getting completely infatuated with a woman to the point where he forgets about everything else, but could he really do that so quickly with the woman who is trying to convict his mother? If he’s that stupid, then the whole storyline is stupid. I just hope we get to see that Tripp’s not the only one with the ability to act and think on his feet. I mean, they are his children after all.

[exzim]

The whole Lucy Liu storyline is so weak.

A 'top' District Attorney bases a murder trial on evidence from a witness who as a foreign citizen and a non US resident can't be served a subpoena to testify anyway. The court has no power outside the borders of the US. I'm glad Nick made that point at the end, because I was yelling it at the screen the whole hour.

A 'top' District Attorney has a relationship with the son of the accused. Both her job and the trial would be toast if that came to light.

What security is there at her office if Jeremy can just waltz in and out as he pleases.

Writers - go take a few lessons on believable characters from Mad Men.

[FaithW]

I just hope we get to see that Tripp’s not the only one with the ability to act and think on his feet. I mean, they are his children after all.

I wanna see some triumphs. Nick impressed me this episode, I liked his strength, and his words were perfect. But I want to some some triumphs for the Darlings. I want the Jeremy storyline to HAVE a point. If we hadn't known the episode description, I would have guessed that Jeremy would have given her those tickets, both, and she would have went, only to meet up with Jeremy at the concert (him having bought other tickets)-- Then there'd be some evidence of their relations. But Jeremy's not being discreet,... there's gotta be survillance around the office, or at least where she's staying, right? Someone is gonna connect the dots, and maybe it's Jeremy's plan (because I want him to be loyal to mum!), but he'll still get off free if someone else points it out, and she'll be dismissed from the case.

the thing that I like about this show is the thing that frustrates me

So very true with me too! I just wish we knew of ONE person's intentions, like Jeremy's, or Karen's. I want to know that the Darlings aren't completely stupid! Simon's playing Karen, but why? Tripp is completely different this season, and I MISS him. Season 1 was so full of heart, and not that this season is bad (I'm still loving it) it just doesn't have the heart. Although this episode (with Nick and his mom) made up for a bit, as well as the scene with Nick and Leticia.

[ProfCrash]

That was a strong episode. Nick visiting his Mother was fascinating. The discussion he had with Kiki about his Mother and how he had not seen her since he was younger then Kiki was very well handeled. The tension between Nick and Lisa was nicely done. The initial meeting was ackward and touching at the same time. The dinner conversation was brilliant. Watching Nick discuss his wife and daughter and how his Mother responded to that news was tough because the actors did such a great job with it. I am a bit disturbed that Nick was able to convince his Mother not to testify. I would love to know what Nick knows that convinces him that Leticia is innocent.

Brian's storyline is unfolding beautifully. His relationship with Brian Junior has been so well handeled. You can see the two of them growing. I am curious as to how Brian Junior snuck onto the plane and managed to hide in the cabinet without being seen. Brian's ability to love and his rage are so well handeled. You can see how the two are connected to Brian's feeling of being an outcast and how angry he is because he longs to belong.

Jeremy really needs a better storyline. Tripp has been butchered this season. Patrick bores me. All of which is a shame because Jeremy and Tripp are great characters. Patrick never really interested me so I am less bothered by him.

[HalpertNBeesly]

I LOVED this episode! It felt very vintage DSM. As vintage as a show 3 episodes into its 2nd season can seem.

Karen & Simon are BORING and I find it very poor writing that basically every scene either of them has is with one another. I loved the conversation b/t Karen & Lisa. Almost felt bad for Lisa but overall I think she's very passive-aggressive and pathetic and I'm ready for her and Nick to break up so she can be interesting.

I love Brian & Brian Jr., I think its probably the most heartwarming story the show has done, and I really got a little teary over Patrick & Carmelita's reunion. Tripp is such a manipulative fuck this season, though, isn't he?

Nick & Letitia and Nick & his mother were the best parts of the show tonight for me. Just - wow. Great acting all around, fantastic writing, the score, I dunno, I just really bought everything.

Overall a great episode, IMO.

[miclogger]

Karen & Simon are BORING and I find it very poor writing that basically every scene either of them has is with one another.

They did that with everyone this year - it's like they switched to "soap" writing, and all the sudden, they don't know how to write for more then two charecters at a time. You never see Patrick without Tripp, you never see Karen without Simon, you never see Jeremy without Nola. Two at a time, two at a time.

Even in the fight scene at Ellens funeral, the interactions were only two at a time.

Patrick bores me. All of which is a shame because Jeremy and Tripp are great characters. Patrick never really interested me so I am less bothered by him.

Patricks a fine charecter. He fits in. It's FINE. But if your going to go crooked congressman with an attack of conscious, then let's really go there! Don't get halfway there and wimp out. GO!

I loved the conversation b/t Karen & Lisa.

The scene with Lisa and Karen was awesome, and I felt like that, for the first time, it might have sunk in to Karen the trauma that her poorly kept secret of her undying love for Nick might be causing people around her. I hope so!

[WhineandCheez]

Is Carmelita a pre-surgery or post-surgery character? Has this been addressed? Either way, it would kill Patrick's political career.

I thought the entire episode was a snoozefest.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I didn't like the Nick/Lisa conversation before he left. I felt they shouldn't have put that in there but I guess they want to continue to show Lisa as this annoying factor in Nick's life. This season it feels like he can't be himself with her. He can only be happy with the Darlings.

I did love her conversation with Karen about how she feels she's lost him to Tripp. Karen was a sad little bitch for coming to Nick's home drunk, where his wife and child lives, in order to get some "closure". Was that her first time ever being at Nick's house? They've usually met at Nick's office. I don't think she's ever been to his home, I could be wrong.

Nick's mom was full of shit. I'm glad he told her off.

Brian continues to rule all. Love him the most.

They could send Jeremy off with his twin and I wouldn't care right now. His storyline is so blah, I wish someone else was in Lucy Liu's role. She's doing nothing for me here.

[ImNotLeesa]

1. I didn't realize how much the subtlety in Tripp-Nick relationship was the heart of the show until it was gone.

mandigirl - You really hit on something there.

Their interactions last season were really grounding to the show. You could have crazy over-the-top Jeremy, Karen or Brian scenes because the Tripp-Nick scenes were so real. Their scenes were well written, there was movement between the characters (they pushed back on each other, reached out to each other and learned to work together somewhat). Plus their scenes were so beautifully photographed and scored. Often a scene between them closed out the show and really made me look forward to the next episode.

No relationship on the show has yet filled the void where that one once was.

On a different subject, Karen's scenes with Simon this week really made me miss Freddie. He was such a perfect foil for her: his actual superficiality and her mock superficiality played off each other perfectly.

[Chaya18]

I'm wishing so hard that Jeremy is playing Nola and finally blows the whistle on her that they are sleeping together. I can't stand her character.

[nicepebbles]

Patrick- Do the writers not know what to do with him? Last season he felt guilty for cheating. You felt like he loved his wife or at least he liked her. This season it starts with him hating her guts. (I don't care that she shot him.) He can't even say one nice thing about her at her funeral and now all of sudden he feels guilty. I don't buy his attack of conscience in this episode because IMO the Patrick from last season should've smoothly transitioned from last season. Not the dick that was in the first two episodes and now back to the old Patrick. The only time I think the back-and-forth works is in his relationship with Tripp. It makes sense he would feel this back-and-forth because like it or not he needs Tripp, or at least feels like his does, but he doesn't want to need him. He wants to stand on his own two feet but he's not man enough to do it.

Tripp- Agreed with whoever said that Tripp just seems to be the puppet master this season. So far this season he hasn't shown any of that depth, nuance, that was there last season. He just comes off like a straight up bastard so far this season.

Brian - How my feelings has changed for this man. I really disliked him early on last season. As the season progressed, I came to love his attitude even if he comes off like a dick a lot of the times. I can't really explain what is it about his character but I think the scene with him and Brian, Jr. at the computer best illustrates the point I'm trying to make. His interactions with Nick are always some of my faves. This episode was no exception.

Jeremy - He always been rather selfish and short-sighted and impetus in his relationships. It's rather endearing. Now though? I don't like it. This thing with Nola makes no sense. Usually with a SL, you can bang your head against a wall as it progresses but you can make yourself feel better by saying there's got to be a point. I don't see a point here other to make Jeremy look bad. Plus, wasn't Jeremy last season going to grow up and do something? Or did I just imagine that?

Karen- Like Brian, I'm liking her more this season than last. I don't know what's going on with her and Simon. To me her SL is like Jeremy's. In any event, she's definitely not the ditzy, lush (not completely) woman so hung up on Nick (i hated that about her). I know Simon told her all that stuff about Nick and her as part of his plan. If he had been serious, IMO he was way off. Sure Karen has still gone after Nick but it seems to me out of habit rather than geniune feeling. Her scene with Lisa and later with Simon illustrated that for me. I've always enjoyed her scenes with Lisa and wish they had more.

Lisa - I like her. I wish the writers did.

Nola - So unbelievable as a top DA. That whole speech to Jeremy about her work and whatever. I was rolling my eyes.

Nick - His confrontation with his mother? Oh, man. I love that scene. I really felt for him and had no sympathy for his mother.

Leticia - I've never really gotten into her character. The whole adultery thing has turned me off from her. Plus, I think the writers don't utilize the actress enough for me to care. I will say that I loved the scene with Nick and her at the end. Question: I'm not clear as to why she paid Nick's mom to leave. I got the impression that his mom would've left without the money. And why so much? Jeez.

Simon- I really like Blair Underwood. I like Simon and I like Simon/Karen. Now I'm beginning to wonder why. It seems Simon to be a straight up villian. I get those kinds of characters. It just doesn't seem to be working here. I don't know if it's Blair or having his motivation so unclear. Yeah, I remember the thing about his parents. Still, that seems rather filmsy because IMO they haven't done enough to back that up. Everything with Simon, at least this season, is so secretive. We get nothing. It better be a kickass climax or else. I like Simon/Karen because at least she got away from Nick.

[DaisyBuchanan]

1. I didn't realize how much the subtlety in Tripp-Nick relationship was the heart of the show until it was gone.

Thank you--I couldn't put a finger on it, but you're so, so right. There was something touching and a lil' wistful about the way that Nick sought the validation in Tripp that he felt he never received from Dutch; and that Dutch saw in Nick the type of competent, level-headed man he ddin't raise his own three sons to be, that was interesting to watch. Now, they're just cartoons, boss and disgruntled servant, with none of the shades of gray in-between.

I particularly find Krause to be "off" this season. I recall in TV Guide that he mentioned several of the actors were anxious in RE: to the show's soapy tonal shift this season. At times, I can see that hesitancy play out in his performance, like he's not all there. Esp. last night in those tedious scenes w/ Lisa and even the early bits with his Mom in France--he seemed disinterested. Hopefully, when they give Nick more to do than just bing off the women in his life, he'll feel a bit more complete again.

I'm quite convinced there's a writer's room dedicated to all the over-the-top shennanigans on the show, and then like a teeny brrom closet where clearer heads prevail and they write Brian's storylines. He's really the only Darling this season that hasn't sufered too much in quality from last season. In the Media thread there's a great comment from a Boston.com reviewer that says Brian's arc is that he's finding out, "almost against his will, that he has a heart." So perfect when describing his interactions with Brian Jr. and Andrea last night. While Brian does have his over-the-top rage issues, they have a grounding in the fact that Brian is just so passionate about those he loves, and can't express it other than though finger-pointing and name-calling at this point. Immature, yes, but I can see how it plays into the strengths and weaknesses of the character.

Contrast that to Paddy's cartoonish buffonery, whish has just come out of nowhere this season. I swear, I don't recall him being this stupid and needy last season. There's just something real and stumbling and imperfect and sweet in Brian's evolving storyline that I don't get in the glossy superficality of the rest of the show.

And I didn't think it was possible, but they do even less with Simon Elder now than they did last season. if you're goingto make him this evil, shady character, esp. in the grand soap tradition of baddies, make him do something big and vile. Making catty comments about Nick during brunch w/ Karen just doesn't cut it.

[arc]

Last week's Godfather homage was a little half-assed IMO, but this one (Tripp bringing Carmelita in to watch the debate, the way Michael Corleone brought in Pentangeli's brother) was pretty bang on.

Craig Wright's idea of examining how money affects actual people and constrains them as much as it liberates them -- which I thought was the show's central theme -- is still present, but it's being overwhelmed by soap.

Yes. But that said, I think it came through stronger in this ep than the other two to date this season. Nick and his mom were great. Karen and Lisa's short conversation really worked as well. I wrote this in the spoiler thread, but might as well say it here too: Free Craig Wright!

but what happened to his reservations, his regrets, his ability, frankly, to have meaningful one-on-one conversations with anybody? Every time he talks this season it's to move a piece on a chess board. How are we supposed to care about him?

Thank you! You've said it way better than I could have.

Yay for the Weepies. I'm a big Weepies fan too and I was very happy to see 'em.

So very true with me too! I just wish we knew of ONE person's intentions, like Jeremy's, or Karen's.

I was going to say that Jeremy's not a schemer or a dark soul, but this story they've got him on is just him coasting on charm and money... what happened to the 25 yo who wanted to make his dad proud? (To be fair, even last season that was an interrupted arc, as he cut it short to pursue the hottie with his fake poor persona. But then again, at least that stuff was hilarious.)

Simon's tantrum at lunch with Karen was fairly ridiculous. How is he a match for Tripp? Tripp's way better at manipulating without coming off completely fake.

Contrast that to Paddy's cartoonish buffonery, whish has just come out of nowhere this season. I swear, I don't recall him being this stupid and needy last season.

In the pilot, he was seeking approval from Nick to go have his affair... I think he's always been stupid and needy. He's resented Tripp's master plan for his life since day 1. The change in Paddy is that he used to be a human being. He used to love Ellen, he was conflicted about his family rather than just the willing puppet...

and has Lucy Liu ever seen how a real lawyer dresses?

I think we're going to have to blame the showrunners or the costume people here... But it's not far off from how a lawyer on Ally McBeal would dress, come to think of it. (AB actually was a decently watchable show at first... before the writing went all to hell and everyone became a caricature.)

[ImNotLeesa]

So, I just thought of one positive thing about Lucy Liu's addition to the show.

She's actually managed to make me like Kiki. Granted, Kiki's only had 2 quick scenes, but during them she never once said anything that made me groan (at both the writing and the delivery).

I cannot say the same for Nola. Case in point: "You. Tell. Moi." [shudder]

[LolaBella]

What has happened to this show???

Nick is one of the few characters that is holding my interest. He just seems as though he has gone to the Dark Side. He has no ethics or scruples left. The money and power have seduced him. That said, you can't stop watching to see what he'll do next.
Here's a thought, maybe he's working for the Feds/SEC who want to bring the corrupt Darling Empire to its knees. Love the way he stood up to his mother, but he doesn't want her to testify that Tish killed his father because he is convinced that Tripp killed him?

Brian continues to be my favorite character on this show - because even though he is just as unscrupulous as the rest of the family, he is the most honest with his intentions. Plus he is entertaining as hell! So, does he know that the kid is on the plane with him or did the kid sneak on board?

Jeremy has to be playing Nola! Just to have that whole trial bit even remotely interesting he has to be about to reveal that they're having an affair so that she can be disbarred, a mistrial declared and Lucy Liu off this show! Please please please?

What's up with Patrick? Hopefully his character's balls will grow back now that his Carmelita is back...sheesh.

Still waiting for the Simon/Karen shoe to drop.

Lisa apparently is 'done' with Nick. Does that mean that she will divorce him so that she can get her and her daughter away from that evil family and its evil ways? Nope, 'cause that would mean that she would have to give up their evil money via Nick. Arrgghh. So, what will she do now? Perhaps give in and have an affair with Jeremy?

Hopefully the next episodes will be better. I'm gonna hang in there.

[FaithW]

It's starting to scare me that there's only 2 pages of talk on the last episode. That's pretty bad, isn't it? Are a lot of people losing interest, or was this episode the deciding one, I wonder.

Even though I figure (and agree with most) that Jeremy MUST be playing Nola, it seems OOC. I'm sure he's a very loyal guy (to the family), but Jeremy's so innocent. I've always loved his character (and Juliet's too). They're totally loveable, I would SO be friends with either one of them (probably Jeremy moreso though). I just can't think that such a sweet, innocent guy would be playing a person who seems to have feelings for him apart from him being a Darling. Or am I wrong? Nola seems so straightfoward, didn't she mention in one episode that she was trying to spice up the case somehow-- or something to that affect.

I wish we had someone to root for. Like if Karen was playing Simon, I wish we knew for sure, and I wish we could root for him, and even see him scheming on top of things (because that's consistant with last season)--- it could provide comedy, but also intrigue. But now, I'm just wondering if Karen really is dumb. In her attempt to just be loved, she picked yet another guy who doesn't really love her. Everything seems so easy though. Simon puts out the hoops, and we see Karen jump threw them, and tells him the TRUTH after. It's all a little too easy.

I wanna see the softer side of Tripp in upcoming episodes. We've seen a tough Tripp in the first season, but this season he seems kinda evil. I get that he wants to protect Patrick's position-- but are there any lines to cross in this matter? I get that he may have been in shock first season because of the reveal of Leticia/Dutch, and his marriage... but he seemed so perfectly genuine in the first season, and in this season he's putting up walls with everyone. I wanna see a cute Nickyyy/Tripp scene damnit! Although, the scene between Leticia/Nick was cute as well.

[TryingHarder]

I like the show but there are just to many people that could be playing someone else. Jeremy, Nick, Karen, Simon, Tripp, Laticia, Brian, Nola and a few more could all be playing each other. That's too many.

Hell, Dutch may be alive and playing all of them.

Edited by TryingHarder, Oct 26, 2008 @ 3:08 AM.

[FaithW]

I know your kidding (or half kidding), but are there clues in this episode that Dutch may still be alive?

And that question makes me think of how did Leticia "handle" it. Why would Nick's mum think that Leticia killed Dutch, if they were having an affair? Are we missing part of the puzzle here, or am I forgetting something? Or when Dutch turned away from Leticia because of the truth she held about Brian for so many years... and was gonna go to Nick's mum (whose name I forget)... And then Leticia saying "she'd take care of it", we're supposed to assume that Leticia had washed her hands of Dutch because he wouldn't forgive her, and therefore she killed him?

I don't believe that story. If everything is true up until the murder, to me, it's obvious that Leticia didn't kill him. That and all of her actions since his death...

[peaceb2u]

Could the observed cooling of the Tripp/Nick relationship have anything to do with the heat being generated by the murder allegations?

This show intrigues and frustrates. When I am watching, I am fascinated, but sometimes it feels like Chinese food -- half an hour later, I am hungry again. This has nothing to do with the "reality" factor, e.g., the Assistant District Attorney schtupping a Tripp while trying a Tripp. The unreality is hilarious. It's something else that I just can't quite figure.

Edited by peaceb2u, Oct 26, 2008 @ 5:15 PM.

[TryingHarder]

I know your kidding (or half kidding), but are there clues in this episode that Dutch may still be alive?

Just in my own little mind. Everyone is playing everyone so, he might as well be playing all of them.

[ImNotLeesa]

I rewatched this episode over the weekend, and the scenes with Brian/Brian Jr/Andrea, Nick/Clare and Lisa/Karen are my favorites.

I think it’s because in these scenes no one’s really ‘playing’ anyone*: though they may be at odds with each other and are struggling to hide their what they are feeling, they are honestly going through the emotions they’re portraying. (vs, say, Simon when he’s talking to Karen.) Plus, everybody gets to have their feathers ruffled and/or be a little snarky.

*While some folks have suggested Nick was 'playing' Clare, I think he was just trying to get some answers from her, and has some really, really deep psychological wounds he was struggling unsuccessfully to hide, and finally decided to let go and lay his hurt on her.

There was something that was niggling me, though, the first time I watched, that really came through during the rewatch. What exactly is the timeline of Dutch’s plane crash?

From last year’s episodes, I thought the timeline was roughly this:

• Dutch works for the Darlings while having the affair with Letitia
• Dutch finds out about his son Brian and fights with Leticia
• Dutch gets drunk and goes to see Nick, giving him the watch (the last time Nick talks to his dad)
• several months pass, during which
  
  • a) Dutch repeatedly tries to contact Nick but Nick avoids him
    b) Dutch begins to break away from the Darlings (spending time w/Simon) Granted most of our info on this was from Simon,
    but there is the whole bit about Dutch’s briefcase, which we spent several episodes learning
• Dutch’s plane goes down in Long Island sound

But from this episode it sounds like:

• Dutch works for the Darlings while having the affair with Letitia
  Then, on a single day:
• Dutch finds out about his son Brian and fights with Leticia, and
• Dutch calls Clare and wants to reconcile with her, and
• Dutch gets drunk and goes to see Nick, giving him the watch (the last time Nick talks to his dad, because, later, that same day…)
• Dutch’s plane goes down in Long Island sound

Am I missing something? Can anyone help clarify this for me?