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#23161

tankgirl73

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 12:56 PM

Here is a link to a tumblr site which has another CTV promo showing a few more clips that I don't think we've seen yet.

There is a little more of the conversation in her flat when they are confronting each other and he says something to her in anger but I can't make out what it is as the sound quality is not good. Then there is a shot of her looking in to what I think is the loft when he's opened the door and she's just standing there with a slight smile on her face all wet hair and hotness. There might be a few extra shots of Ryan and Esposito too I'm not sure.


Yeah, definitely new stuff in there. "Open your eyes and see... right here" -- something like that, can't make out the middle bit. The door look implies that she doesn't walk right straight in as implied in the previous promos... there's probably more of a stand-and-look-at-each-other for a bit first and then she lunges at him.

A couple new shots of Ryan and Esposito with guns, nothing really revealing though.


I still like the idea of Beckett getting a call in the morning, while the two of them are lounging in bed together, telling her to get to the precinct. And when she gets there Gates (reluctantly?) tells her that IA have been sent a load of info on how she hid Montgomery's crimes, and now she's suspended pending investigation.


I like that too, with one modification.

Gates will tell her GLEEFULLY. Or, at least, with a self-satisfied smirk. And a barb or two in Castle's direction as well. He's banned from the precinct, most likely. And if they've got intel on Beckett wrt Montgomery, I'd wager that Esposito and Ryan are all suspended too. Unless Ryan turns stoolie and was the one who turned them in. I wouldn't want that though -- that would be too hard to recover from, and I love the group dynamic they have now.

We do know that the gang is nervous about this aspect of the situation, their worried whispers about it in one of the sneaks. (And: yay that they're actually bringing this up, as many of us had hoped, while others feared it might be ignored) It would be quite realistic and an effective shake-up to have ALL of them suspended.

But ooh, their vengeance will be sweet in early season 5 when it's revealed that Gates was complicit with the Big Bad all along and so they're exonerated from having hidden things from her. Hey, I can dream right?

Edited by tankgirl73, May 4, 2012 @ 1:03 PM.

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#23162

S7W9C2

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 12:59 PM

Here is a link to a tumblr site which has another CTV promo showing a few more clips that I don't think we've seen yet.


Thanks for that. It does have new clips. That's Ryan throwing something isn't it? Could be the editing but that looks like Castle pushes Beckett up against the door/wall. Oh boy.

Edited by S7W9C2, May 4, 2012 @ 1:01 PM.

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#23163

tankgirl73

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:24 PM

Just had a new thought to throw out...

What if the 'cliffhanger' has nothing to do with Beckett or her job? What if it's Castle? I'm just thinking... after sexytiems and reconciliation vis-a-vis protecting her life vs finding her mom's killer, after all that another lead comes up and she goes after it and he goes with her and HE ends up getting wounded. Or, Smith calls him to meet, where he tells him he hasn't kept up his side of the bargain and not only will they kill her, they'll kill him too -- but Beckett had secretly come along (either planned with Castle or unbeknownst to him) and she takes out Smith, but not before he gets a good shot at Castle.

I don't know how likely it is, I just thought it might be an intriguing way to 'shake things up' without retreading the same paths as before.
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#23164

WedgeOfSpite

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:25 PM

There were points in the season where our fans have been frustrated, but they were supposed to be frustrated. That frustration is actually an expression of rooting for an outcome; it's an expression of investment in the show. If you give everybody what they want all the time, it's not really what they want -- what they want is the journey.

AM is either just spinning, or oblivious, because as indicated by the demos/ratings (which speaking of, last week was an adjusted down to 2.3), which all showrunners are well aware of, the audience was not just frustrated from investment, but just frustrated enough to leave. Or put another way, they weren't getting enough show ROI, so they taking their viewing capital elsewhere.

Which speaking of frustrations, it kills me that this finale is probably going to go through like a checklist of stuff that should have been addressed all season, like: Beckett and Castle hanging out aside from work (which has been absent outside of one other time --the entire season); Beckett is wondering how she's still alive; Castle is showing how conflicted he is about his Sekrit; talking about Sekrits and finally, talking to each other about them. With actual words. Not some eyeballing, love or otherwise and not a bunch of crap ass subtext. Not to mention possibly sexytiems, where the the leads get to show that the characters do in fact lust for each other, as well as care for each other. And note the actors kicking ass at all of it. When given actual material, they deliver much more and it's much more interesting to watch, than the plodding, illogical, non-emotional continuity (or indeed content) episodes.

On the one hand, whoo to the hoo. About time. On the other hand, this only goes to show what a complete, no really complete and utter waste the vast majority of this season has been. I would put my re-watch count at 4 right now, probably the finale. Out of 22 or 23 episodes? That's horrible. And I don't think AM gets that at all. I think he thinks all the crap and "invested" frustration he's caused this season, is working and that it's just fine and dandy to make good finales, good opening of the season episodes, and then...

Edited by WedgeOfSpite, May 4, 2012 @ 1:28 PM.

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#23165

MominHighHeels

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:29 PM

Quote
Yeah, and NF is so on it with his voice all strained and cracking to the point he's almost having to physically force the words out one by one. Urgh, goes back to watch clip and flail around some more.



Not to mention the tears that are gathering in his eyes that glitter in the light but never quite spill. *THUD!*


Oh, this!!!! The hitch in his voice when he said he loves her is heartbreaking! It makes me want to yell at my computer "I love you too, Nathan!" And the glittery tears! Oh, the glittery tears! Ahhhhh! NF does not get to show his range in this show as much as he should. He's got amazing expressions and the acting he does with his eyes alone is genius.

I am DYING with anticipation for the season finale. Though I'll have a long summer to get through. Boo. BTW, I live in Europe, so I have to wait until Tuesday to see it! Noooooooo!!!!!!

Edited by MominHighHeels, May 4, 2012 @ 6:09 PM.

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#23166

NoWillToResist

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:48 PM

What if the 'cliffhanger' has nothing to do with Beckett or her job? What if it's Castle? I'm just thinking... after sexytiems and reconciliation vis-a-vis protecting her life vs finding her mom's killer, after all that another lead comes up and she goes after it and he goes with her and HE ends up getting wounded.


Yeah, I floated that idea a while ago since the finales seem to flip flop. The end of S1 had her making him leave, the end of S2 had her wanting him to stay, the end of S3 had him realizing he loved her and she was hurt, so the end of S4 would imply that Kate will realize she loves him and he gets hurt.

While it would be consistent, I think I'd like AM to break the mold finally. Get C&B underway and throw external shit at them which doesn't involve their health. :)

On the one hand, whoo to the hoo. About time. On the other hand, this only goes to show what a complete, no really complete and utter waste the vast majority of this season has been.


I'm not sure whether it reveals more about me or the show but that first sneak with C&B is just a total night and day kind of thing when compared to the Rick and Kate we've suffered through in the latter half of this season. Honestly, I think I'd accept it if they reveal that Ryan and Esposito found pods in C&B's closets that had been there since just after Kill Shot and they have now remedied the situation. :D

For better or worse, the people I see in those sneak peeks give me hope that this show CAN recover from the crap that has been the latter half of the season. The 'real' Rick and Kate are still there; they haven't been erased by the pod people masquerading as C&B lately. All is not lost. :)

I think the season should play out thusly:

All of 2011 minus Kick the Ballistics and Heartbreak Hotel, scatter the fluffy 2012 stand-alones in there somewhere, then 47 Seconds, then the finale.

Edited by NoWillToResist, May 4, 2012 @ 1:50 PM.

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#23167

regularlyleaded

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:48 PM

You know, I actually debated that but then I decided against it since laser tag has been a daddy/daughter thing and I didn't want to "defile" it with sexytimes. :)


heehee! I thought of that too, but I figured it could be placed under the heading of "Things Alexis NEVER needs to know about". ;) Though really, every item on the list should be under that heading, so it all works out. :D

Now, if we get a Hallowe'en ep in S5 and he wants to dress up like Batman and she dressed up like Elektra...I would be all kinds of okay with that... :)


I see another comic book themed episode in their future....

Edited by regularlyleaded, May 4, 2012 @ 2:01 PM.

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#23168

Danny Franks

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:24 PM

Now, if we get a Hallowe'en ep in S5 and he wants to dress up like Batman and she dressed up like Elektra...I would be all kinds of okay with that... :)


What? No, that can't happen. Batman is of the DC Universe, and Elektra is Marvel, through and through. [/comic book nerd moment]

I'd love to see Beckett dressed up as Catwoman, though... Or Wonder Woman (though Stana Katic is probably a little too skinny for that). Or my personal favourite for her, Black Widow (she'd have been a much better choice for the Avengers movie than Scarlett Johansson).

What if the 'cliffhanger' has nothing to do with Beckett or her job? What if it's Castle? I'm just thinking... after sexytiems and reconciliation vis-a-vis protecting her life vs finding her mom's killer, after all that another lead comes up and she goes after it and he goes with her and HE ends up getting wounded.


I hope not. I already get the impression from all the "mirroring" that this show does, that it's more a case of them liking an idea and then wanting to try it out on both characters, instead of picking one and being done with it. I'd rather no one is hurt, unless it's a case of carpet burns or bruised... areas.

And I kind of hate the idea that it would take Castle almost being killed to make Beckett realise she has to give this up. Whereas I've been feeling all season that the theme just had to be about Beckett deciding Castle is more important than her mother's case, that her future is more important than her past. They hit this idea in the first couple of episodes, then seemed to drop it in favour of emotional paralysis and filler episodes for much of what we've seen since. So her deciding, as she's dangling off a roof, that Castle is where she needs to be, well it's better late than never.

I also like the irony of things falling into place with the case just as she gives up on it. That the crucial evidence might come to light, and that they'll get the answers she's needed for a decade, just as she's finally made her peace with it all. However, I still get the feeling that this finale is only going to take another baby step closer to her mother's killer. It seems now, sadly, that it probably won't be solved until the series finale.
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#23169

NoWillToResist

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:24 PM

Vague finale spoiler from EW...

Spoiler


Interesting. Perhaps there is merit to the suggestion that
Spoiler

Edited by NoWillToResist, May 4, 2012 @ 2:27 PM.

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#23170

verdana

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:52 PM

Not to derail the more serious discourse on the emotional ramifications presented in the sneak peeks (snip)

Derail all you like, sexytimes takes priority over everything.

Submitted for your approval: naked laser tag.

Approved.

You know I have sexytiems on the brain when I first read that as "there is no real solid furniture for them" and pictured lots of breakage as they crash around the loft...

Well when you said that I had to go back and double check I hadn't put that because the state I'm in after Nathan's tour de force anything is possible.

I'm aching for him.

And you're not the only one.

There's hope for the future of the series if they can maintain that. Lots of story still left to mine.

Hell yes and Marlowe is the one who keeps saying this, I just wish he would look like he's got the guts to actually go there and show us.

Yeah, I picked up on that too. If I were the man who loves her, I wouldn't be able to avoid feeling like crap after that statement.

Well yeah that was my next thought because it's got to kick you in the gut if you're a guy that much in love. You're not asking to be the most important and only thing in her life that matters but you would like to think you could rank above a guy with a gun, a dead person (even if it is her mother) and an event that took place over a decade ago. Especially if the person you loved had informed you only a week ago that their WALLS were coming down soon and they were almost where they wanted to be, clearly not so.

I didn't want to "defile" it with sexytimes.

I don't care, never even gave it a second thought, naked laser tag approved once again. I can just picture Kate and Rick now running around the apartment ....okay off to watch that clip, flail over Fillion once again and then read loads of hot steamy fanfic.

Which speaking of frustrations, it kills me that this finale is probably going to go through like a checklist of stuff that should have been addressed all season (snip)

I think this has got the rank pretty top of the pile. That and forcing your two stars to become dull, lifeless robots for most of the season only to have them morph into radiant beings in the finale. All the things now being discussed and brought up are matters we should have seen over the course of the entire season and I believe that Marlowe knows this but deliberately shafted us just to avoid the great big fat elephant sitting comfortably in the middle of the room in a deckchair smoking a cigar, drink in hand and waving it's trunk around for all to see.

Interesting. Perhaps there is merit to the suggestion that
Spoiler


Yes, I am desparately hoping that the cliffhanger has nothing to so with Kate and Rick splitting up or looking as if a roadblock is being placed in their way which you can clearly see signposted to last the entire next season (I can't trust you Rick!). I want them to have sexytimes, I want them to talk, to fight if necessary, I want them to at least come to an understanding that they are yes in love and want to be a couple, how they do that and figure it all out - well they can do all that next season. But I want forward progress on the ship. The show can't survive another season without this in my view.

So I'm clinging on to the idea that the real cliffhanger is something different which yes may cause conflict between everyone at the precinct but you can see they can write themselves out of it in time for the end of the premiere in S5. I'm hoping it will involved Ryan and Esposito and
Spoiler

Edited by verdana, May 4, 2012 @ 3:01 PM.

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#23171

discworld

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:53 PM

Omg - the sneak peeks are amazing. Marlowe is so right when he says there is so much story for after when these two get together - he's just oh so wrong in delaying it for so long - the first John Woo scene is a great example. As for the others I absolutely love Stana's delivery of 'say something reassuring' - such an intimate tone to her voice. All kinds of awesome.
And the absolute hurt and betrayal and shock in her voice when she asks Castle if he is part of this.

I'm going to get over the obvious retconning and the awful filler that has been most of this season and declare all forgiven if the finale follows through on the quality suggested by these sneaks.

And Stana and Nathan - bravo - two of the best non verbal actors on tv - no question. Great onscreen partnership. These two actors can deliver when given a change and I actually think AM is spouting about 20 different types of bullshit in that interview with his line that it was all planned - I think the suits at ABC give someone a not too subtle kick in the arse after doing some polling and maybe even watching an episode of the turgid nonsense he was putting a talented cast through.

What's going through my head right now is Beckett and Castle doing the knocking it out of the park actions in the episode where they had the bet with Ryan/esposito I'm doing that as my form of flailing when rewatching these sneers

Agree with Danny that he can't reverse from this now - effectively the physicality of upfront promo is becoming canon and I don't think anyone will tolerate a reverse to subtext and lack of relationship.

Edited by discworld, May 4, 2012 @ 2:58 PM.

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#23172

WedgeOfSpite

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:00 PM

What? No, that can't happen. Batman is of the DC Universe, and Elektra is Marvel, through and through. [/comic book nerd moment]

I'd love to see Beckett dressed up as Catwoman, though... Or Wonder Woman (though Stana Katic is probably a little too skinny for that). Or my personal favourite for her, Black Widow (she'd have been a much better choice for the Avengers movie than Scarlett Johansson).

Yes, but ABC is Disney, as is Marvel. So no Catwoman or Wonder Woman (or Batman for that matter). Still leaves SK dressing up as Black Widow, though. So keep hope alive in seeing, Danny Franks.

However, I still get the feeling that this finale is only going to take another baby step closer to her mother's killer. It seems now, sadly, that it probably won't be solved until the series finale.

Ack. I so tired of this story, or at least how it's been blown up on the show thus far. I don't want this be something that, Fugitive like, won't solved until the very end
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#23173

mad maverick

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

Catching up on the thread, and isn't it good to have something to cheer about for once? After the crapfest that has been this misguided arc, the SPs and the last episode feel like much needed relief, like a cool drink of water in the desert. It's like the characters can finally get back to their real selves and stop being zombies, and the relationship is undead again, resurrected at last, and all the warmth and longing (and honest-to-god conversation!) that's been missing for much of the season is being pumped into it again.

The conversation at the end of Undead Again was a real relief as it felt like the characters were communicating honestly and directly with each other again, for the first time in a long time. It was so good to see Castle look at Beckett that way again, with real warmth. Been way too long. I did cringe a little at his "I think I understand.." because dude, you thought you understood last time and it turns out you were wrong! But Castle saying that he wanted to be there when the wall came down and Beckett telling him she wanted him there was them stepping up finally, which I've really needed to see from them. Part of me, the snarky part heh, was thinking, "if only you guys had said this on the swings in Rise!" ;), but then I guess AM would have had even less story for S4. ;)

I also didn't particularly like that they had clueless!Castle not knowing that he had been punishing Beckett (or at least that was what the writer was trying to tell the audience to think), though I guess maybe that's better than him intentionally punishing her for not loving him (or punishing her for her lie, to think better of him). I still think this whole arc has done damage to Castle's character with his dumbass behavior, lack of self awareness, reflection, self-respect even, and jumping to conclusions about Becket without considering plausible reasons for her action. Like, fialka, I think it was, that said a few pages back, they could have done the secrets arc without writing Castle the way they did and kept him in character. He's a smarter and more sensitive man than they made him out to be. A missed opportunity in a season of missed opportunities to add depth to to his character and make him grow. If they had to do it the way they did it, then they should have shown him struggle with his emotions or at least show some introspection.

Enjoyed the zombie episode as a whole. It did have that classic old school S1/2 feel. Think the zombie episode along with the fairy tale episode are my favorite "lighter" episodes from this season. NF was a great zombie. (Shallow note: NF looked way better in zombie makeup than Elvis make up *shudder* Nathan, why do you insist on HH being one of your favorite episodes from S4?! :o) Castle creeping Esposito out was classic, as was his out to drive Beckett crazy. Loved Perlmutter as always. There was real life to Castle's character (despite the angst) which I think made a difference.

Moving onto the finale SPs, again, such a relief to see Castle finally having the guts to step up with his ILUs again at long last! It did give me a little bit of deja vu compared with the S3 finale confrontation, and it had a part of me thinking he should have said it then because the circumstances aren't really different except for the disappearance of Josh. I guess they are trying to mirror the S4 confrontation with S3's and showing that both have progressed. Castle's finally forthright with his feelings, and Beckett's at least hearing Castle out even after learning of his betrayal. I don't think she will run from Castle, but I think she will tell him that if he loves her, he'll let her do this. I do feel for both characters. If I were Beckett, yes, something like this would be very hard to put down when it seems like there's a chance at the truth. Castle's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He wants to be by her side but he doesn't want her to do this. I hope he doesn't "abandon" her even if she does decide to put herself at risk.

Loved emotive Castle, and all his love and fear and desperation came through. Loved Beckett's kind of stunned/freaked/still not knowing what to say reaction to Castle's ILU. Please give the actors more of this kind of meaty material to work with! I'd like to hear the writer and lover in Castle say more than what was in the SP. Something along the lines of how Beckett is far more than her mother's death, how she can best honor her mother by living a full life, how that life could hopefully include happiness with him etc. Make it first of all about her, who she is, and also the future they could have together if she would only choose it!

So much love for the "movie date" SP. The banter, the chemistry, the way they looked at each other! SK can sure bring the love eyeballs, and NF's stunned look were all so great. And I have to say Beckett reaching out for Castle's hand in the promo and her asking Castle to say something reassuring was far, far more intimate and touching, given the context and her motivations, than that other hand-holding. Thank God, NF and SK can still make the hand holding work and Royal didn't ruin it forever. ;) It's really something to see Beckett let Castle (or anyone!) inside her walls, finally. For all their partnership, she was still shutting him out in the S3 finale. So definite progress, from finale to finale, just not much in between. ;)

Like others have said, this better be a point of no return!

Edited by mad maverick, May 5, 2012 @ 3:53 PM.

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#23174

moodyblue

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:14 PM

Interesting. Perhaps there is merit to the suggestion that

Spoiler

I would hate if this happens. It was bad enough last season when they made Montgomery a dirty cop and killed him and then brought Gates in, but if they did this it would really damage the team, especially Esposito. I'm not sure how they would be able to come back from that, and I would hate see Esposito and Ryan's partnership damaged like that. It would take away the comaraderie at the precinct which is usually my favorite parts of the show.

The sneak peeks have definitely done their job because I am excited for the finale and not with a sense of dread that I have been feeling in the recent episodes of Castle. I am keeping in mind that we have only seen about 6-7 minutes of the episode. I'm well aware that their is another 35 minutes that Marlowe can still screw up.
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#23175

Danny Franks

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:20 PM

Yes, but ABC is Disney, as is Marvel. So no Catwoman or Wonder Woman (or Batman for that matter). Still leaves SK dressing up as Black Widow, though. So keep hope alive in seeing, Danny Franks.


Well, Castle's going to need another option, then. He may be rich, handsome and have a playboy past, but he's no Tony Stark. He's not quite clean cut enough to be Captain America. And I really don't want to see Nathan Fillion wearing a Spider-Man costume any time soon. Hawkeye is probably the closest to suiting him.

And the absolute hurt and betrayal and shock in her voice when she asks Castle if he is part of this.


I love that. I got the feeling that him being involved could have broken her worse than Montgomery, but fortunately she seemed to figure out that he was far less connected to it all. Though I really hope he tells her about Smith, because that's the one thing that she'll most want to know.

However, the earlier sneak where she talks about fearing for her life highlights something a lot of us were unhappy about when Killshot aired. Castle knows Beckett is safe. He knows that the dogs have been called off, and that no one is going to try to kill her (outside of her normal day to day job), yet he keeps silent. Or at least he did when she was freaking out and PTSDing all over the place, paranoid that she was going to get shot. And now, she clunkily delivers the news that she has indeed been scared of it happening, all this time. And he never said anything. Stupid writing. If I had been setting this season in play, I'd have figured out some way of making Beckett aware that she was safe, because it would feel like too much of a cloud hanging over her, stopping her from living her life with any real freedom. But of course, the writers completely and utterly ignored this idea of her still thinking her shooter wanted her dead... until now, when it's being confronted along with everything else that's happened on the show in the last year.
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#23176

NoWillToResist

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:46 PM

Royal didn't ruin it forever. ;)


Holy crap, I havenít even thought about the dog this week! Good grief! Surely thatís a good sign! Iím more focused on Kate petting Rick than Royal! Huzzah!

I would hate if this happens. It was bad enough last season when they made Montgomery a dirty cop and killed him and then brought Gates in, but if they did this it would really damage the team, especially Esposito. I'm not sure how they would be able to come back from that, and I would hate see Esposito and Ryan's partnership damaged like that. It would take away the comaraderie at the precinct which is usually my favorite parts of the show.


I donít think it would need to. I mean, theoretically, they are all carrying around this huge weight. By Ďfessing up, it does unburden them to a degree. Also, Ryan is very Ďstand upí kind of guy so I wouldnít be surprised if he were more affected by the cover up than the others. And I donít think the others would hold that against him. What they are doing is wrong. Illegal. If they blackball Ryan for doing what they all should have done a year ago, then I wonít be happy with the characters at all.

What I never understood was the scene where Kate clearly had told the gang about Roy and then says that anyone who doesnít want in, needs to get out...but...sheíd already told them! She gave them the intel and THEN asked them if they were cool to keep quiet about it? What? What was she going to do if any of them had been all ďum, no. Fuck that. We need to tell the truthĒ?

He may be rich, handsome and have a playboy past, but he's no Tony Stark. He's not quite clean cut enough to be Captain America. And I really don't want to see Nathan Fillion wearing a Spider-Man costume any time soon. Hawkeye is probably the closest to suiting him.


Fuck. Now Iíve got Jeremy Renner in my head. Gah! Thatíll take a day or two to get my mind back on track! :)
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#23177

verdana

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 4:23 PM

Holy crap, I havenít even thought about the dog this week! Good grief! Surely thatís a good sign! Iím more focused on Kate petting Rick than Royal! Huzzah!

After that speech from Rick she had better forget all about that dog and focus on telling Rick just how naughty she would like him to be otherwise I will be gravely disappointed. As for Royal if the finale goes well, we may have to think of consigning his name to the history books, never to be referred to again, along with the majority of the episodes this season.

He was a hell of a cute dog but Royal can't out do Fillion in the adorable stakes for me right about now.
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#23178

civisromanis

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 7:24 PM

If they blackball Ryan for doing what they all should have done a year ago, then I won’t be happy with the characters at all.


That's probably exactly what happens especially considering the sneak peaks and the fact that only Esposito and Kate are in Gates office when she resigns.

I completely understand where people are coming from as far as seeing this as emotional blackmail. It is, in a way. But I guess I just see it as Kate not having the brains God gave a gnat when it comes to her mother's case. She doesn't even have any self-preservation - supposedly the key instinct of most living things. She just runs head-first into the lion's den without a thought to herself or those who care about her.


You know, joy is quite infectious. All my friends on tumblr are all excited and even this place, the place where Castle came to die there for a while, is awash with optimism, and all it took was a kiss against a door. LOL, that makes me really happy, so the argument I make here has a little less power. I don't want to take your joy, but I'll make it anyway.

Make no mistake, I hate this arc with a passion. I think it's sexist, demeaning, and it makes me dislike Castle so very much, and because I don't care about sexy times, that does not in any way sway me from that. A great ending cannot follow a shitty journey, and IMO, this journey is so crappy, that I couldn't care less about the finale.

It has always been my contention that Kate cannot give up the case, she only needs to find some measure of control, some middle ground where she doesn't fall so deeply into it that she cannot see the forest for the trees, and just like Esposito said, the best that the gang should hope to do is have her back and try to keep her from falling. Ultimately though, the decision has to be hers. When Kate let Castle back in Undead Again, I think she did so because she was afraid of losing Castle, and now he is telling her that if she loves him at all, she will give up the case that defined her. The case that took someone beloved to her. I can't imagine sexy times happening before that scene, so that means it happens afterward. And if it does happen after that talk, how am I not supposed to think that Castle's emotional blackmail worked? Especially when I think it worked in Undead Again?

What does all that mean? To me, it means that the story is telling us that Kate can't find that middle ground, and that to be whole, she has to give up the case because she cannot handle it. This isn't alcohol, as much as that metaphor seems to pervade the debate, and it's not drugs. Her obsession doesn't work in the exact same way. What I think it means in the grand scheme, what I think the story is implying right now, is that strong women who have careers and purpose, should give that up in favor of the love of a good man. Kate can't do both, she doesn't have the brain power (as you said) or the ability, and thus, she needs to find the love of a good man to take her away from this obsession.

She needs to be better to find the love she so desperately wants. And it's a theme that is fairly popular these days in popular culture. IMO, the journey is incredibly important, especially when it implies what it does here. Castle was rewarded in Undead Again by her compliance and the emotional black mail in the finale seems to be on the verge of paying off too.

And the really sad part is that one line in the preview seems to sum it up quite nicely: forget Castle's bad behavior the weeks leading up the finale, Kate is the one who is maddening and challenging, and she is the one who needs to be called out on her behavior.

No thank you show...I think I'll pass.

ETA: I really do wish I could see past this so I could enjoy like you guys. But like pepper said a while back, I cannot turn off that part of my brain.

Edited by civisromanis, May 4, 2012 @ 8:30 PM.

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#23179

Nova

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 7:27 PM

I think it's the fact that she is showing her vulnerabilty so openly to Rick and asks him to make it better. This whole things shakes her to the core and you can see it.

Exactly - how often has she ever come to him and asked for something? Said she needed him? That is a major step for Kate, and an indicator of trust.

Yet in the promos, where Beckett lays down her badge and resigns, Esposito is in there with her and Gates. So I'm really curious as to what happens in between. Is he in trouble too for covering for her? Did he have a change of heart and turn her in?

Just fanwanking, but what if he is covering for Beckett and/or at risk himself, so Beckett walks in, lays down her badge, and says it was all her, so lay off her guys.

loving someone doesn't give you the right to choose what they are allowed to know and what not.

I thought the question wasn't what gave him the right, but why did he do it. I'm handicapped by not actually watching much of the SP. LOL

She CANNOT drop this case because she makes love to Castle nor can she do it because he is going to wrap her in his arms of love, she has to do it for her OWN healthy and mature reasons. That's what therapy is for, and you don't solve it by throwing yourself at something else. Even if it is love...

Well, I thought that was her moment of realization halfway through this season - that she wants to live, and not let her mom's case define her any more. Of course, I'm sure it was a lot easier to nobly step away when she didn't have any leads. Her first reaction will probably be to hold on tight, react, then think.

I don't think he can blackmail her or force her to do anything at this point - all he can do is express his hope that she will choose a future together over falling back into a dangerous obsession. If she can find that balance, and choose her life over vengeance/justice, it would seem much more hopeful that they could even quietly pursue future investigations without her running into traffic.

You're not asking to be the most important and only thing in her life that matters but you would like to think you could rank above a guy with a gun, a dead person (even if it is her mother) and an event that took place over a decade ago.

Honestly, I don't think it is where he ranks that will hurt, but the fact that she is still giving top billing to something that is likely to kill her.

How did Marlowe manage to make Stana and Nathan so dull this season when they have such spark? What, I wonder, was the actual direction - or was the it the magic of editing?

Edited by Nova, May 5, 2012 @ 8:12 PM.

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#23180

fialka

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:00 PM

I want her to tell him that she needs some time to think. He is making her choose between him and the thing her life circled around in the last 13 years, I think this should not be answered in a rush.


Yeah, he is, but since the thing her life has been circling around for the last 13 years is the drain, I honestly don't have a problem with that. Agency in theory is fine, in reality you don't hand someone intent on harming herself the tools to do it, as NWTR said better above. The only objection I had to that bit was for god's sake, man, you couldn't have said this a year ago and saved us all a world of pain?
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#23181

Samantha84

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:09 PM

Checking back in to share the latest Marlowe interview about the season finale. One that didn't make me angry or ready to take a drink.

Also new ABC promo: Castle and Beckett Story

Until Monday.
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#23182

jmhm

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:36 PM

Um, yeah.

“The holy grail in TV, especially in detective shows, is man-woman pairings,” said Gary Glasberg, the co-executive producer of “The Mentalist,” which had an impressive ratings debut in September and regularly appears in Nielsen’s Top 10. It pairs Patrick Jane (Simon Baker) with Senior Agent Teresa Lisbon (Robin Tunney) at the California Bureau of Investigation. She’s earnest, he’s cocky, and they need each other professionally and possibly personally as well.

“When you can get that kind of chemistry between people, you can access a coveted female demographic that isn’t otherwise interested in detective shows,” Mr. Glasberg said, pointing to “Moonlighting.” “That’s the one everyone is trying to duplicate.”

But is duplication a creative cop-out? “There are no new stories, there are only new characters,” said Andrew Marlowe, an executive producer of “Castle.” “We have really new characters.”

So, Castle is already-been-chewed Bones, and Andrew Marlowe doesn't need to write engaging characters, since his star has a following from his last job.

Which, fine. It only makes me sorry that I got engaged in this story because Nathan Fillion made such a point of being engaged with his fans.

If I'd known it was only his Firefly fans, I'd've saved a lot of time.

Edited by jmhm, May 4, 2012 @ 8:50 PM.

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#23183

tankgirl73

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:52 PM

I just saw that new promo on Castle's Facebook. Love it! Starts out sooooo cute with the review of life-saving, then it gets into the serious stuff. A nice recap of "the story so far". Nothing new, except just a teeny bit longer of them standing at the door before she comes it. So it's nothing new to squee about, but it's just a really, really nice and sweet promo.

And boy, does that ever sell the episode as "Caskett finally happens, for real yo". If they're marketing it the way they are, and then it turns out Castle and Beckett are NOT a sealed done deal (whether in bed or just smooching, at least fully involved in a romantic relationship), there will be rioting in the streets.

Of course, I'm sure it was a lot easier to nobly step away when she didn't have any leads. Her first reaction will probably be to hold on tight, react, then think.


That's exactly what I've been thinking. Her light-hearted acceptance of the movie date, which presumably is at the very beginning of the episode, leads me to believe her 'plan' was to gently start a relationship with Castle now. Playfully and joyfully. The whole thing with her mother is on the back burner, but just not a major factor in her life right now. It's a safe time to start moving ahead with this relationship.

Then the new lead comes up, and she is completely thrown off her balance. Not to the same obsessive degree as before, I'm sure. She is "in control" -- of herself, if not of the whole situation -- but she can't NOT pursue the lead.

So I think the conversation in her apartment will be right along those lines. He'll ask her to stop, and she'll say that she can't. When there were no leads, which Castle convinced her of at the beginning of the season, she was able to focus on other things. But now there is a lead. Someone upthread said "if you love me, you'll let me do this" and I wouldn't be at all surprised if she says exactly that.

But I think the lead will be frustrating. And dangerous. I think her big realization is going to be that she might actually never solve the case. And that she can't put off her life for something that might never happen. Even when there is a lead. I think she'll tell Castle that she's made peace with the idea that she might never solve it -- but if a lead comes up, she will always follow it. So she'll say something like, "if I let myself love you, I need to know... will you understand, will you back me up when I have to follow a lead when it comes up?" And he'll say "always". Commence sexytimes.

I don't think she'll outright say "I love you" this ep. Maybe. But she's all about letting down her walls, letting go, allowing herself to feel things instead of holding them back anymore. It's not that she doesn't love him, or doesn't want to love him, it's that she can't allow herself to love him. So first, she has to allow herself to do so. It would be very in her character, cautious and restrained but wanting to open up, for her to say something like "if I let myself love you" looking for reassurance before taking that final plunge. Especially since she was nervous in the recent arc about whether he was dependable enough, stable enough.
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#23184

Samantha84

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:53 PM

Marlowe: "We're Putting Ourselves in a Great Position" For Season 5

Okay now I'm really going. Until Monday - for real. lol.
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#23185

WendyCR72

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:53 PM

So, Castle is already-been-chewed Bones


Well, yes. And that's fine. Because Bones is reheated Moonlighting with a forensic angle, and Moonlighting copied Remington Steele, and on and on.

I have a lot of issues with Hanson, Marlowe, and all, but here they do speak the truth: There really is nothing that has not been done on all these types of shows. The characters just give them a different flavor.

And, really, it's comfort TV. Nothing wrong with that.
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#23186

moodyblue

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:20 PM

All my friends on tumblr are all excited and even this place, the place where Castle came to die there for a while, is awash with optimism, and all it took was a kiss against a door.


I think that is oversimplyfying things, at least for me it is. It isn't the kiss that has me most excited but the sum of all of the clips. Even if there was no sneak peek or promo of a kiss, I would still be looking forward to the finale because of the rest of the clips and not just the Beckett/Castle based ones. I like the slight tension in the one with Ryan and Esposito. I also think the one with the four of them in front of the murder board at the precinct is interesting with Ryan and Castle looking wary but Esposito is pushing that the break-in is connected to Beckett's mom's murder. I will admit that I do like the Beckett and Castle clips The kiss and whatever else comes with it isn't the only thing that has me optimistic about the finale, but I'm also well aware of how Marlowe could screw it up.

If they blackball Ryan for doing what they all should have done a year ago, then I won't be happy with the characters at all.


I don't think they would blackball Ryan and they shouldn't, but I do think it could cause some tension within the group. It just isn't something I'm interested in seeing between partners like they have claimed to be. I remember Ryan saying to Esposito, "Partners til the wheels fall off," no matter what Esposito was getting into in Den of Thieves. I would like the two of them to stick together, more out of sentimentality than anything else.
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#23187

fialka

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

And, really, it's comfort TV. Nothing wrong with that.


Indeed not. Particularly in a world which appears to be getting harsher and meaner by the day, and maybe that has a lot to do with why this season has annoyed me so much. If I want angst and drama, other shows do it so much better (Fringe, Game of Thrones, I'm looking at you). I loved Castle because the way it was set out originally, Beckett was just serious enough to anchor it, and the rest was pure sparkly fun. Something occasionally dark, like Sucker Punch or 3xk, is fine, as long as it's not so heavy that it becomes an albatross. Same with the fact that finales are always heavier than the rest of the season. But conspiracy arcs? Become dead, stinking albatrosses (albatri?). Character with the Big Unsolved Tragedy That Makes Them Lose All Sense? Dead, stinking, maggotty albatross. This show and these characters were not structured to handle that much angst, and that is perfectly fine. By sacrificing the sparkle, Marlowe didn't make his show more of a contender, he sacrificed the thing that made it work, and that made it the best of a bunch of shows all going for exactly that fun, light, sexy WTWT dynamic.

On that bit I'd say Hanson did it a lot better -- I was never a fan of the Max arc, nor of the revamp that made Bones less like socially awkward and more like socially brain-damaged. But HH has done a better job of addressing the damage of abandonment and foster care just by simply not forgetting that it happened, so it shows up in Bones reactions to all kinds of stimuli, not just sweeps or seasonal bookends and not so suddenly that it's a great weight dropped on your head. That means when they do an ep that focusses on it, like when Max shows up, it feels thematically more in stride with the eps that surround it.

This show used to know how to do that with Beckett, before it became the Mombatross. And that's also what it needs to recapture, along with the sparkle (though I think they're probably intertwined), is that kind of balance where you seed stuff all through the year, not just in one death-defying (literally) glut in one or two On A Very Special Castle eps. If they can do that, I might stick around. But if they're going to have Beckett and Castle as a couple who are just endlessly swinging from sexytaims to stupidly acting out to case-time-Beckett-gets-suicidal next year will be as flat and joyless as the second half of this year and any romance we do get will feel stale and forced. All they have to do to keep the show interesting after hookup is let the characters enjoy being together, but I thoroughly doubt Marlowe will be satisfied with that. And I'm not sure I want to stick around for S5 and invest in them together just to watch Marlowe pull them apart again, like a spoiled child pulling wings off butterflies just because he can't see the beauty he's got in his hands.
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#23188

tankgirl73

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 11:18 PM

In one of the recently posted AM interviews, he's asked if the swings Beckett is sitting on are the same as in the season premiere. He says "very observant... was that in the promo?" and confirms that it is, and it's symbolic, yadda yadda.

I can't find an actual picture of her in a swing in any of the promos or sneaks. Does such a one exist? The only reference I know of to a swing is Ausiello's comment about how she got wet. If that's all we actually have, then AM unintentionally confirmed that rumour with the way he answered that question.
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#23189

Samantha84

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 12:28 AM

Nathan on Jimmy (Fallon) was hilarious! Always thought Nathan's best interviews were on Kimmel - I have changed my mind now.

Nathan told Jimmy that "the question on Castle has always been will they/won't they.....will they get together. I can say this much ... after the season finale, we wont wonder anymore."
Jimmy showed the show lots of love, by the way.

They had an archery contest with play bow and arrows. Funny. Overall a great interview, in my opinion.

Edited by Samantha84, May 5, 2012 @ 12:34 AM.

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#23190

verdana

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 1:42 AM

I can't find an actual picture of her in a swing in any of the promos or sneaks. Does such a one exist? The only reference I know of to a swing is Ausiello's comment about how she got wet. If that's all we actually have, then AM unintentionally confirmed that rumour with the way he answered that question.

The swings was mentioned in an Ausiello Q&A with the fans and I haven't seen it any promo so yes he has unwittingly confirmed that. I had to smile at his comment about symbolism that you mentioned because this is just so Marlowe he loves serving this stuff up, I'm convinced he thinks he's being clever with it.

(snip)What I think it means in the grand scheme, what I think the story is implying right now, is that strong women who have careers and purpose, should give that up in favor of the love of a good man. Kate can't do both, she doesn't have the brain power (as you said) or the ability, and thus, she needs to find the love of a good man to take her away from this obsession.


Well a strong woman with a career and purpose should be able to see that the thing providing that purpose has been running and ruining her life for over a decade now, which has caused the death of innocent people, that may yet cause the death of more people, some of those being people you love or hope to love and it's not worth your own life and the loss of hope of a happy future one that yes she appears to want with Rick. That a strong smart woman would be able to weigh up the risk versus reward and decide that the reward is not worth it to her emotionally anymore or to the people she loves.

But I think the lead will be frustrating. And dangerous. I think her big realization is going to be that she might actually never solve the case. And that she can't put off her life for something that might never happen. Even when there is a lead. I think she'll tell Castle that she's made peace with the idea that she might never solve it -- but if a lead comes up, she will always follow it. So she'll say something like, "if I let myself love you, I need to know... will you understand, will you back me up when I have to follow a lead when it comes up?" And he'll say "always". Commence sexytimes.

If I was Castle I wouldn't be happy agreeing to this as a basis for their future together. What if they do settle down into happy coupledom and then have children? The case then raises it's ugly head a few years down the road? Or ten years? I wouldn't want this hanging over my head knowing that at any moment the woman I love is going to run off into the line of fire again after some possible lead and I'm going to be clinging on for the ride trying to mitigate the fall out at goodness knows what cost to her, our family and others arround her.

It would be very in her character, cautious and restrained but wanting to open up, for her to say something like "if I let myself love you" looking for reassurance before taking that final plunge. Especially since she was nervous in the recent arc about whether he was dependable enough, stable enough.

I loved the way she asked for reassurance already in one of the clips, he is now her go to guy for emotional support clearly and that's a real breakthrough and it's touching. As for him being dependable and stable, I don't think there is much more he can do to prove this frankly, he's done more than enough for me these last four years to show her the man he's now become. If she has any questions she needs to ask then go ahead but he can't erase his past, it is what it is and she either needs to accept it or move on.

(snip) they will be able to get past some of that angst and get to a different place in their relationship that allows us to basically re-embrace our fundamental values and what people have loved about the show since the beginning. And we don’t feel like we’ve drifted very far, but we just know that we’re in a really great position to re-embrace everything that we love about the show and that the audience seems to respond to.

This is Marlowe talking about S5, so I sense a bit of mea culpa from Andrew here because the reality is he knows only too well that he has moved away from everything that made the show great in the first place. Did he have a sudden epiphany or was he aided by some angry ABC execs worried about the ratings to see the light?

and the revelations and betrayals are put on the table

I see Marlowe has amended his catchphrase.

You know if after all the latest round of interviews from Marlowe which though still annoying do give the impression he's admitting he can no longer screw the fans around any longer, Nathan's recent interviews, the tone of the promotion by ABC etc, if they don't end up with them clearly together by time the credit roll in the finale then it's not a bunker Marlowe will need to hide in, he will have to get a ride out to the International Space Station to avoid the furore and the ensuing fall out which will occur.

Edited by verdana, May 5, 2012 @ 1:48 AM.

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