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#15841

TWoP Howard

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Posted Sep 7, 2011 @ 11:39 PM

After deleting almost two pages of posts, and editing even more than that, it looks as if it’s time for a reminder that boards on boards posting, posting ones’ opinion as fact, repetitive posting, and lecturing the thread are all against the rules here.
  • There is no right or wrong way to watch a TV show. There are only opinions, and your posts need to reflect that you understand that your opinion doesn't hold any more weight than anyone else's here. Watching the show from the very beginning or mainlining the DVDs doesn't give you a claim on the "truth" of the show.
  • Please don't lecture the thread on what the show is or isn't, or what the writers did or didn't intend. Nor should you be speaking for anyone but yourself. Using "we" and "us" instead of "I" comes off as a bit pompous, and as if you are trying to inflate the weight of your opinion by pretending you are speaking for others.
  • Posting about fandom, the audience, the viewers, other sites, or taking the temperature of the thread itself are all boards on boards. Please stick to posting your own opinions of the show, rather than explaining other people's opinions to them, or counting up sides into haters and lovers of one character or another. Predicting how one "side" will react to a given situation is boards on boards.
  • Make your point once or twice and move on. Posting over and over to explain your point over and over does nothing but derail the thread (see the pages of deleted and edited posts). Letting another poster's opinion go unanswered doesn't mean that he or she won. This isn't a debate or a court of law, and you're no one's defense attorney. Nor are we here to reach a consensus. The thread is here so that we can share our opinions of the show, and perhaps gain some insight that we didn’t pick up for ourselves.
  • Rather than saying in several posts that you're done with the argument, just don't post. See the point above.
  • If you see a problem breaking out in the thread, please don't try to mini-mod or make peace. Get a mod involved, and ignore the issue in the thread. Since it's not about the show, that kind of commentary is boards on boards in and of itself, and only serves to further derail the thread (again, see the pages of posts removed and deleted).
  • If you can't disagree with someone and stay within the rules of the site, then walk away from the keyboard until you can.

Finally, enough of the Castle vs. Beckett argument. You’ve been rehashing it for years now, and no one is changing anyone’s mind. Don’t bring it up again until the new episodes air, and even then, keep your observations about the events of that episode itself. So, "I thought Castle/Beckett was deliberately avoiding the issue of where their relationship is going," is okay. "Castle/Beckett gave out mixed signals in this episode, just as he/she always does. I don’t see why she/he should put up with him/her, but no doubt the Beckett/Castle fans will jump on him/her right away," is not.

I’m closing the thread for a day just to give you all a chance to reset your posting habits.

#15842

TWoP Howard

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 9:26 AM

Enough of the Castle vs. Beckett argument. You’ve been rehashing it for years now, and no one is changing anyone’s mind. Don’t bring it up again until the new episodes air, and even then, keep your observations about the events of that episode itself. So, "I thought Castle/Beckett was deliberately avoiding the issue of where their relationship is going," is okay. "Castle/Beckett gave out mixed signals in this episode, just as he/she always does. I don’t see why she/he should put up with him/her, but no doubt the Beckett/Castle fans will jump on him/her right away," is not.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Oct 14, 2011 @ 3:58 AM.


#15843

Samantha84

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 10:21 AM

SPOILERS: Castle Season 4: 8 Things You Need To Know About "Rise"

Sneak Peeks: Castle 4x01 "Rise"
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#15844

NoWillToResist

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:36 AM

New ew.com spoilers about the premiere but I don't think it's very spoilery.

re: the second sneak peek while I get that Josh is upset, I hate that he's all "you pushed her to look into her mother's murder; this is your fault." Way to totally ignore Kate's choice to pursue it, dude. Sigh.

re:things you need to know about the premiere "He also doesn't see Kate for three months, but guess who was the one who didn't call this time? Yeah, Castle is pretty upset about that too.". Interesting. I wonder if this supports the notion that Kate DOES remember his ILY? Did she need space to figure out how she felt about that?

Edited by NoWillToResist, Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:45 AM.

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#15845

MissKit

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:41 AM

Man, will Sept. 19th get here already!!!

I'm more curious than ever to see "Rise", now that I've been spoiled a little. I think it's looking like a great episode, and I hope it continues throughout the season.
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#15846

mig991

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:47 AM

SPOILERS: Castle Season 4: 8 Things You Need To Know About "Rise"


Very spoilery, do not read if you care to be unspoiled. But man there is some good stuff in there! I am not watching the sneaks, but I am reading stuff, so far this method is really working for me.


p.s. Way to shut the thread down people!!!!!!!

Edited by mig991, Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:50 AM.

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#15847

Samantha84

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:58 AM

In regards to the sneak peeks clip -
I completely understand Alexis' fear and that is what it boils down to, in my opinion. I look forward to seeing how this issue will play out between Castle and Alexis this season. I see there relationship moving to another level because of this.

I literally cheered for Jim Beckett and at the same time wanted to give him a hug. I was hoping that he would tell them to cut it out and he did and much more. At the same time I wanted to hug him because he watched his child, his only child, shot right in front of him. They should all be rallying around him, comforting him, right now.

I understand Josh's fear because, again, that's what it boils down too. His accusations that Castle is to blame for Beckett and, especially, Montgomery's shooting/death - completely out of line and 100% wrong.


This is shaping up to be a great episode, I'm really excited about it!
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#15848

halaci

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:59 AM

There was a spoiler on Wetpaint too and I found this part new and interesting:

We’re introduced to one new character, and another oldie-but-goodie shows up in the nick of time.
The newbie is obviously Victoria “Iron Gates,” and the other is a strong man from Beckett’s past.


Who this guy could be? It's not clear to me that the oldie-but-goodie refers only his age or that we have already seen him? If the first, my two cents is that the psych will be that same one who had already treated Kate back when she was a rookie. If the second, I don't really know - Sorenson? THAT would be a tough hit for Castle, him coming back!

Edited by halaci, Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:59 AM.

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#15849

mig991

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 12:09 PM

Who this guy could be? It's not clear to me that the oldie-but-goodie refers only his age or that we have already seen him? If the first, my two cents is that the psych will be that same one who had already treated Kate back when she was a rookie. If the second, I don't really know - Sorenson? THAT would be a tough hit for Castle, him coming back!


I say why the hell not! From everything I have read this whole episode is about kicking Castle when he is down. Well that and Beckett being all full of 'angst'.
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#15850

ipj

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 12:28 PM

Going back to Beckett breaking down on the LA boardwalk and later in the hangar, which I found annoying and others powerful: I think if the two plots leading to it, the betrayals and then deaths of her two mentors, were better executed I would find her dissolution powerful. But the first relied on a background that contradicts what we never saw in the first mentor episode, and didn't see developed in the interim. (If we saw a couple of jail visits between Beckett and himself, little grace notes in that time with the implication they happened every week or two, mostly offscreen, I could have understood her eventual level of involvement and guilt and self-punishment.) As for Uberbad, a master criminal so incompetent and dedicated to drama he can't arrange to shoot someone who spends her days at crime scenes without first involving a comical amount of secondary players in breaking the only hitman he can possibly use out of jail...

ETA: In addition to the Kate-mentor jail visits there should have been some reference to Montgomery helping her realize she had to set aside her mother's murder so she could be a great cop, the sort of thing that looks 180° different in retrospect. I'd rather have kept him, but at least properly set up the JB murder aspect of their shared history.

Edited by ipj, Sep 9, 2011 @ 12:31 PM.

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#15851

halaci

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 1:23 PM

Another spoilery tidbit, I asked GMMR today.

There was a spoiler about a fight between Alexis and Kate, along the line that Beckett can't know how she feels because she isn't family. To me it was like it happens in the premiere, but Marisa told it isn't. I'm a bit happy about it, because I felt it too much conflicts in one episode and it would be very awkward from Alexis to attack Beckett in the hospital.

I think it would happen later, maybe in the 3XK episode. At that time Castle could relatively settle himself into the new situation at the precinct and Beckett, so a new angle of attack would be a real twist.

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#15852

nike75

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 1:49 PM

@halaci
I'm very glad about this spoiler, I admit freely that this storyline makes me nervous, so Alexis not confronting Kate in the first episode but maybe later on when there is a dangerous situation again for Castle is something I really like to read.
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#15853

WendyCR72

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 1:58 PM

Isn't Michael Trucco on another series now? So I can't see it being Sorenson that returns.
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#15854

halaci

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 2:01 PM

WendyCR72: Truocco was Demming.
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#15855

WendyCR72

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 2:10 PM

D'oh, you're right, halaci. Momentary brain fart, mixing up Demming and Sorenson. All the plot points have become interchangeable to me.
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#15856

Jenn

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 2:36 PM

I wonder how they'll handle the Alexis thing. I can totally buy Alexis feeling frightened and angry about her dad being in a dangerous situation - that's completely understandable - but why wouldn't she confront him about it directly? She knows that he chooses to be in that situation. She's also been shown in previous episodes to be perceptive and mature, as well as having an open and honest relationship with her dad. Why would she suddenly choose to get confrontational with Beckett (presumably behind her dad's back, too, since I can't imagine him being happy about her doing this)?.
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#15857

moodyblue

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 2:39 PM

re:things you need to know about the premiere "He also doesn't see Kate for three months, but guess who was the one who didn't call this time? Yeah, Castle is pretty upset about that too.". Interesting. I wonder if this supports the notion that Kate DOES remember his ILY? Did she need space to figure out how she felt about that?

I wonder if we find out if he has been trying to call her all summer, but she ignored his calls and maybe calls and visits from the others, too. Perhaps she's hiding at her father's while trying to deal with the fallout of the finale.

From the same site: "Even though there was some speculation that this would be a caseless episode, there is in fact a murder being investigated and Gates is practically looking over their shoulders to make sure they're doing their job right." I kind of wish there was no murder to deal with because there is so much going on already in the episode.

Who this guy could be? It's not clear to me that the oldie-but-goodie refers only his age or that we have already seen him? If the first, my two cents is that the psych will be that same one who had already treated Kate back when she was a rookie. If the second, I don't really know - Sorenson? THAT would be a tough hit for Castle, him coming back!

I read it as someone we've already met in the last three years since it makes a note of there being a new character and an oldie-but-goodie character. The only two I can think of is Demming or Sorenson stopping by to see how Beckett's doing. I can't think of any other memorable man from Beckett's past that has been on, unless they mean her father, but that seems too obvious.
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#15858

halaci

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 3:06 PM

I think until the premiere there will be a black bar bonanza here :)

"He also doesn't see Kate for three months, but guess who was the one who didn't call this time? Yeah, Castle is pretty upset about that too."

I was surprised by this and not the pleasant way. She should remember how painful it was when somebody who she thought at least a friend cut all the connections. I can sort a lot of reasons why she feels not to be in contact but except the option where she wants completely quit with Castle I can not justify forgetting her own experience on the other side. That would be the first case when she hurts him intentionally and not on the wave of anger and even though it can be explained I feel it is an unnecessary "black mark" on her character.

Regarding the oldies-but-goodies/strong man character: the more I think the more I hope that this is going to be the psych and not one of her former lover. I can't see how any of them could help her in emotional recovery but sure as hell it would give Castle another sucker punch. I understand the concept of tearing down a hero to be mightier the recovery, but I feel this an overkill.
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#15859

WendyCR72

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 4:15 PM

Well, the guy could be the shrink, but I read it as more of a real return, whereas the shrink would be pulled out of the air, but time will tell.
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#15860

AllShiny

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 4:16 PM

We’re introduced to one new character, and another oldie-but-goodie shows up in the nick of time.
The newbie is obviously Victoria “Iron Gates,” and the other is a strong man from Beckett’s past.


We're depending on the perspective of the person who wrote this. My greatest fear is that she's talking about Josh - we haven't seen him in a while (hey it's got to have been nearly six months since his last episode aired, hasn't it?). I'm speaking with my fear here, because in the second one of those previews, when we see her flatlining with an issue with her HEART, and there's Josh - the cardiac surgeon - at the hospitol, already in his scrubs....All I could think was, PLEASE DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN, don't let them have Josh get called in to save her. And I think that would qualify as "shows up in the nick of time".

If they go with that particular trope, no matter how good the show is, that will probably ruin it for me. Seriously.
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#15861

dietcoker

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 4:39 PM

From everything I have read this whole episode is about kicking Castle when he is down. Well that and Beckett being all full of 'angst'.

Oh puke to both of those spoilers.

I haven't read most of the spoilers. But I don't see how on earth can what happened to Beckett could possibly be blamed on Castle. It was clear to everyone including Beckett that she was in grave danger and she ran straight into danger with no protection. Why wouldn't she have tried to protect herself with a vest? She always takes time to put on 5 layers of eye liner, even when she's just working out or getting blown up while soaking in a tub.

The one way this show can redeem itself is for Beckett to face that she and only she put herself in harms way and not blame anyone else except herself. If she has a death wish, then I hope she is written as admitting that. If Castle gets blamed for anything, I will be P.O.ed.
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#15862

S7W9C2

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 7:51 PM

Is this the new Castle poster? Very cute!

Stana has it up on her twitter pictures.

http://yfrog.com/z/kkn3psrj
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#15863

WendyCR72

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 8:44 PM

I have read that the picture in that link is "key art", so yeah, I'm assuming it is the new promo pic stuff for the show.
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#15864

Samantha84

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 9:50 PM

Is this the new Castle poster? Very cute!

Stana has it up on her twitter pictures.

http://yfrog.com/z/kkn3psrj


Yes this is the offcial season 4 poster. TVLine posted it along with this article.
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#15865

NoWillToResist

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 10:01 PM

Is this the new Castle poster? Very cute!


The tag line is fun with a kind of nudge-nudge-wink-wink subtext. The body language is cute, but the faces look...wrong to me. Stana looks botox-ed to within an inch of her life and Nathan looks...weird. His eyes don't look right.

I think someone went overboard with the airbrush or photo-shopping which is a shame because all the casual pics I've seen of them at events make me think these two really don't need any adjustments, y'know?
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#15866

Doctor Nemesis

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 11:20 PM

RE: new poster, I agree with NoWillToResist in that it is a bit... shiny. Cute, but very very shiny.
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#15867

halaci

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Posted Sep 10, 2011 @ 12:44 AM

The one way this show can redeem itself is for Beckett to face that she and only she put herself in harms way and not blame anyone else except herself


Up till now I don't remember any hint or spoiler what said that Beckett blames Castle for what happened. He himeself yes, Josh him yes, but Beckett didn't.

AllShiny: I don't think him, he is definitely not "from the past".

Edited by halaci, Sep 10, 2011 @ 12:42 AM.

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#15868

NoWillToResist

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Posted Sep 10, 2011 @ 9:19 AM

Cute, but very very shiny.


Heh. Maybe they mean it to be a Firefly shout-out.

Up till now I don't remember any hint or spoiler what said that Beckett blames Castle for what happened.


Sucky though it will be to see Castle once again guilt-ridden and miserable, this could open up things very nicely for Castle and Beckett. I doubt he'll be mollified with a simple "it's not your fault". I think Beckett will have to really go above and beyond for Castle here and I'm fine with that. I would like to see her put herself out there a bit for Castle.

In addition to that, since it appears that Beckett is responsible for this 'three months with no communication' break, I hope she doesn't play the innocent "why are you upset with me over this?" I really hope she acknowledges that cutting him out would have been hurtful but that, after everything that had happened (case, being shot, death of Montgomery, break up with Josh [fingers crossed]), she needed to have a complete break from everything (or whatever). I just don't want her to actually think that cutting out her best friend at such a time should be viewed as normal and no big deal. I also hope that she confides to him that she's started therapy for the myriad issues she has. I think that would get them over the break very quickly with no lasting resentments etc. Some honesty and shared vulnerability would be nice. I do wonder though, in that scene at the swings, she has his book. How does he get it to her if they're not talking? Does he find her dad and ask him to give it to her? Hell, Kate could tell Castle that the implications of the (rumoured? confirmed?) dedication just made things even more complicated and she wasn't ready to talk to him about all that until now.

Anyway, all of that is just to say that, while TPTB are obviously not going to put them together any time soon, I think they might be putting Castle and Beckett into a good, honest place for future development.
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#15869

Samantha84

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Posted Sep 10, 2011 @ 10:42 AM

TPTB are obviously not going to put them together any time soon, I think they might be putting Castle and Beckett into a good, honest place for future development.

And that's all I want right now - honestly and truly would make me happy.
I don't think their ready for a romantic relationship quite yet but them being honest with each other is a huge in the right direction, in my opinion.
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#15870

halaci

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Posted Sep 10, 2011 @ 10:54 AM

NWTR: Getting the book is easy, he can send a copy with a courier to the precinct. Most probably their talk on the swing will be partly about why she can't dive into any relationship now, not with him. There are plenty of good reasons, both practical and emotional. If their talk will concentrate only on the practical reasons, denying the emotional ones, I will be disappointed. If both will bring up with honesty, I don't mind that at that moment it it would mean they stay apart. (As an extreme hope: they admit they could help each other clearing the shit away.)

ETA: Samantha was faster with similar thoughts :)

Edited by halaci, Sep 10, 2011 @ 10:56 AM.

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