348 replies to this topic

[TWoP Nikita]

Here's the thread for discussing Thirteen.

[reinoe]

I'm getting really tired of her screen time. What really bugged me is that she was trying to emulate Cameron in the "overly empathize with the PotW" way. The woman didn't want to have a baby and was happy being a peon. I was particularly aggravated by Thirteen(I don't think I'll ever use her real name) because I agreed with the patient on everything she was saying. Thirteen you're a not great doctor, not a psychiatrist. STFU with your opinions on life.

[scarlett]

She doesn't look like a Remy, at all.

[BerryIsHere]

It's the lack of a cajun accent I think

[WanderFree]

I finally isolated what it is that bothers me about 13/Hadley. We saw Cameron start out holding every patient up to her own personal moral standards - and giving them more painful treatments when they didn't measure up. But she did allow that there were other ways of seeing the world, and argued for the patient's ability to make choices. I didn't love or hate her, I accepted her presence. However, that immaturity of "live the way I think you should, or suffer", really bothered me. I was glad to see that fading, and sorry to see her growth back burnered by the show.

13/Hadley is emotionally stunted. She, like everyone, has come to her own worldview through her own experiences (death of her mother, fear of Huntingdon's, death of a patient during a competitive interview process, confirmation of Huntingdon's, and a million other things told about her, hinted about her and completely offscreen). Faced with a patient who spends some time facing an unknown illness/possible terminal condition, 13 cannot seem to grasp that this woman is going to make different choices than she (13) would make in that situation.

Since I know nothing about the writing staff, I don't know the gender makeup. But we "women" are not a homogenous lot. We don't all like the same flavor of ice-cream, the same movies, have all the same values and we don't make all the same choices. While I was impressed that we had a POTW who wasn't "save the fetus, regardless of my survival", I don't like the idea of another young female doctor who has such tunnel vision about others. I recall knowing a lot of people with limited viewpoints when I was a child/teen. However, as people grow, move away from home, get educations and advanced degrees, they meet a wider variety of viewpoints, and (hopefully) learn that the people of the world are a complex lot. I can accept one character who still has a limited perspective. A second one makes me sigh "here we go again".

If done properly, 13/Hadley could be an interesting character. Pushing her through the Cameron growth arc is dull. We've seen that one. Give her a personality, not just a random collection of traits. Give her story arcs, not center stage. I don't care how many men/women/couples/small rodents she's dated or screwed. Sadly, I don't even care that she has Huntingdon's. If it doesn't move the story along, I don't want to hear about it. By contrast, Kutner told us about his parents' death at an appropriate time. Sudden death was the topic. Taub's adultery was germaine to the conversation. "I think I dated her" was just clunky.

[wildebeest]

I'm tired of her. I'm glad the opening credits haven't changed. I hope it means that 13 and the lousy actress who plays her won't be around next season. Well, truthfully, I hope she won't be around next week, but that's not going to happen. I think the writers want us to like her. They want us to like her bad. But shoving her down our throats isn't going to make that happen. Make her go away so we can learn to miss her!

[GhaimehBadenjun]

I was on the fence about 13 through most of Survivor arc. Didn't love her, didn't hate her. I thought she played very well off of Cole and occasionally Kutner - frankly I thought she had better chemistry with them than Jennifer Morrison's had with most of her co-stars, so I was like "Hey, if this is Cameron 2.0, I can live with it." Olivia Wilde isn't the best actress in the world, but I personally think her screen presence is smoother and less prickly than JM's.

In "Dying Changes Everything," though - I wanted to slap her! Reaming out the POTW and demanding she justify her job was just wrong. I also didn't really appreciate that she started dumping her Huntington's diagnosis on the POTW while the POTW was receiving chemotherapy. Not to sound like a heartless bitch, but keep it to yourself. Get a therapist. Talk to your friends. The patient's there to get better, not to be your sounding board. Even on a show that's defined by unprofessional interactions with patients, I was kind of galled by that.

Edited by GhaimehBadenjun, Sep 19, 2008 @ 7:44 AM.

[anon004]

I'm tired of her. I'm glad the opening credits haven't changed. I hope it means that 13 and the lousy actress who plays her won't be around next season. Well, truthfully, I hope she won't be around next week, but that's not going to happen. I think the writers want us to like her. They want us to like her bad. But shoving her down our throats isn't going to make that happen. Make her go away so we can learn to miss her!

It's funny, but I wasn't enamored with Amber at the beginning of the Survivor arc, and, by the end of it, I respected her, but still didn't like her very much. By the end of the season, I thought she was great and, while I understood why they killed her off, I really miss her. The point is, it is possible for the writers to change peoples' opinions about the characters. I just haven't seen the writers do that with this character. Let's hope I'm proven wrong, and they can do something over S5, because I don't think showrunners are ready to admit this character and the actress who plays her were and are a mistake.

[Houddy]

They want us to like her bad. But shoving her down our throats isn't going to make that happen. Make her go away so we can learn to miss her!

Hee, do you think if we convince them that will happen, they'll send her away for a while? I'm willing to try anything. Even pretending I'll miss her.

Give her a personality, not just a random collection of traits.

That's a great description of what is wrong with her as a character. I just feel like, whenever they need a character to exhibit a certain trait they throw it to the pretty girl. They did it with Cameron and now they're doing it with Hadley. Almost to the point where I think the character descriptions were:

Kutner - risk taker, sometimes careless, doesn't take life too seriously, could cause trouble but is well meaning.
Taub - starting over, troubles at home, thinks outside the box, but is more cautious about it.
Hadley - Hot, bisexual, cause that's so edgy, and other traits to be determined on a weekly basis.

Didn't they learn last time? Mediocre actress + inconsistant writing = bad character

[scrivo35]

Hi
I have two problems with "13" they are
1) She has "Pretty Girl Syndrome" where they think they can say and do what they want and because practically every man want s to bed her she gets away with it.
2) The actress playing her is not old enough to be out of Med school never mind being a Fellow on a World famous Doctor's team and i can not get past that.

I think they should of kept Amber and instead of her having a relationship with Wilson should of given her Huntingtons

[anon004]

2) The actress playing her is not old enough to be out of Med school never mind being a Fellow on a World famous Doctor's team and i can not get past that.

And, sad to say, she has yet to demonstrate she can handle the part, either.

Edited by anon004, Sep 19, 2008 @ 8:28 PM.

[purplebubbles]

I think they should of kept Amber and instead of her having a relationship with Wilson should of given her Huntingtons

*delurks*

I'm actually glad they DIDN'T do this. It would have resulted in the same situation. The mistake they made with Thirteen IMO was giving her this contrived storyline in order to manipulate us into feeling bad for her. Amber, on the other hand, was super driven and ambitious, had her own agenda, and was one of the few women on the show that didn't have a thing for House. They focused on her personality and motivations. It's true that many people didn't actually like her but the fact is, I don't think we were meant to and we weren't forced to, either. With, Thirteen, however, it's more like: "See her. You'll like her. Now feel bad for her. She has Huntingdon's." They could have made her bitchy/nerdy/funny/smart/snarky/even bimbotic... anything that would have made her seem like a real person. That would have given her more than 2 dimensions. But she's just so... bland. They could fire her next week and the show wouldn't be any different without her. Even Cameron, as annoying as she could be at times, had her own presence.

Edited by purplebubbles, Sep 19, 2008 @ 3:00 PM.

[anon004]

They could have made her bitchy/nerdy/funny/smart/snarky/even bimbotic... anything that would have made her seem like a real person. That would have given her more than 2 dimensions. But she's just so... bland. They could fire her next week and the show wouldn't be any different without her. Even Cameron, as annoying as she could be at times, had her own presence.

ITA. Between the blandness of the character and the blankness of the actress, you're in wallpaper territory.

[maeish]

Ah Thirteen. I can't believe the writer's gave her the name Remy Hadley. It reminds me of a mouse (not to be offensive to anyone actually named Remy. It's kind of cute). Remy/Thirteen blah.

I think the writers were actually TRYING to pawn off some of Amber's drive and ambitious traits ONTO thirteen in "Dying Changes Everything". Particularly when she was at the desk towards the end and banging on about how she screwed up the diagnoses and blah blah blah. Some of her dialogue would have seemed very at home in Amber.

But whatever the writers do to make us like Thirteen - please don't make her another Amber. There was only one Amber and Thirteen pales in comparison.

[anon004]

But whatever the writers do to make us like Thirteen - please don't make her another Amber. There was only one Amber and Thirteen pales in comparison.

ITA. I don't think they'll go in that direction. Amber was not about taking chances just for the sake of it, but taking chances to win. From everything I've read, they are more likely to put 13 in the "I'm dying, I don't care if I take chances" mode, both with her patients and her private life. Sadly cliche, but it least in they won't go into Amber territory. Please.

[Driad]

Hoping they don't kill 13, because then (some of) the others would have to pretend to be sad. Better if she goes away to see the world, or treat TB patients in Africa, or something. Then nobody will ever have to mention her again.

[reinoe]

Hoping they don't kill 13, because then (some of) the others would have to pretend to be sad. Better if she goes away to see the world, or treat TB patients in Africa, or something. Then nobody will ever have to mention her again.

Well if they killed 13 I don't see Kutner being sad because he deflects his emotions, or if he is sad he'd mourn in private. I don't see Taub being sad because he seems cold person, not bad just cold. If 13 dies under the right circumstances I don't think Foreman would be sad. That just leaves House and Cuddy. 13 can't treat TB patients in Africa because that schtick is already taken by the "grumpy" doctor. Of course if the writers just stop having her show up on screen and just never mention her disappearance I'm fine with that and I don't think anybody would care about the mysterious unexplained absence.

The more I talk about this 13 character the more I actually seem to hate her. That's not good for me.

[neneski]

IMO I'm finding the dislike of the 13 character to be even greater than the dislike for Cameron's character. IMO the intense dislike for Cameron may have attributed to TPTB going with a character as unlikeable as 13 and the casting of such a subpar actress as OW in the role, IMO.

Would fans that didn't like Cameron/JM want OW/13 eliminated in favor of bringing back JM/Cam full time? I'm just wondering because it's confusing, they swtiched it up but wound up with a worse situation in response to what? Fan pressure? Emails or letters they received decrying JM/Cam? I don't believe for a second that they don't know what's going on with correspondence they receive or chatter on the internets. IMO OW kind of makes JM seem like Meryl Streep in comparison (I am exaggerating of course for effect).

Am I the only one that feels they should have left well enough alone? OW is very unwatchable, she doesn't strike a cord or generate an emotional response from what I've seen of her performance. And there is zero chemistry between her and HL, not as a potential romantic interest but even just as a subordinate/employee. There is just nothing there. IMO JM had much more chemistry with all the characters, especially HL. JMHO

[Abella]

Emails or letters they received decrying JM/Cam?

I doubt it - IMO David Shore just got bored & moved on to his next obsession.

Would fans that didn't like Cameron/JM want OW/13 eliminated in favor of bringing back JM/Cam full time?

I don't think you can answer that without a lot of speculation about fan likes & dislikes. For myself, if they'd written out Cameron effectively I wouldn't have been thrilled, but I'd have lived with it. Instead I got Cameron on the fringes while 13 who bores me to tears was front & center - and probably had the unintended (atleast by TPTB) effect of making me miss Cameron a whole lot more than I anticipated. If OW were a talented actress & had sold me on the character, then maybe not - but she didn't & I don't think she's capable of it. The sledge hammer like plot tactics aren't helping.

Remember - the opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference. Cameron, at times, I almost loved to hate. 13 (& this applies to Foreman too) bores me. I can live with boring characters as wallpaper (case in point, Foreman) - but I won't put up with a boring character that is so front & center that she drags the whole show down with her. That just makes me switch the channel. Should they have left well enough alone? Depends what you mean by that - I do think TPTB needed for the Cottages to evolve into attendings or effectively move them on career-wise, but introducing 13 in the way TPTB did didn't address that in any way & simply adds to the viewers frustration over TPTB's lack of resolution over C&C. 13's a bit of a separate issue needing plot/script fixing/different actress etc - and its not a "hate of new characters" thing. Amber's success proved that.

Edited by Abella, Sep 22, 2008 @ 9:32 PM.

[neneski]

If OW were a talented actress & had sold me on the character, then maybe not - but she didn't & I don't think she's capable of it.

Ah, exactly what I think I was trying to get at in my post above in a rambling kind of way.

As a fan of JM, but a bigger fan of good writing and plots and acting, I was perfectly willing to give all the new characters a decent shot at proving themselves worthy of the show House. Kutner I can't comment on because his role has been really, really small, nothing there to even critique yet IMO. PJ is a great character actor so when they give him something to sink his teeth into he will bring it.

IMO They missed the mark with OW/13. Granted she is a beatiful woman, pretty eyes, but there is nothing behind them, the word vacuous comes to mind. Nothing about her acting has moved me in the least. When the test revealed she had Huntington's my first thought was "oh good she won't be on the show for long." That's probably not the reaction TPTB were going for.

[Sarah1281]

Everyone always says how Thirteen is supposed to be the "mysterious" one and yet it seems that every episode since we found out that she might have Huntington's we've gotten more of her backstory shoved down our throats. At this rate, we'll know more about her than about House. If anyone's the "mysterious" one, it's Kumar. I mean, what do we honestly know about him save his parents were killed?

Thirteen was set up as this amazing doctor in the whole Survivor arc, what, with being the one to solve the case twenty minutes into the episode when they divided the teams by gender (if only she had stayed to make sure he took the pill instead of killing the guy's poor dog [although for that matter, why was the dog even allowed in the hospital in the first place?]) and she was the only one to believe in House'e Lyme Disease diagnosis enough to follow the surgical team around until it occured to her that the rash was under his hair (it's always under the hair whenever they can't find it, but does anyone ever think to check it? Nooooooooo). Now, it's like she's lost all of her alleged medical prowess and Kumar is the one who catches things when House is too preoccupied with his personal life.

And strangely, whenever Thirteen had a "brilliant" moment it made me hate her because everyone made such a big deal of how amazing it was and it was like she's a bloody Mary Sue, but when Kumar does it, people just run with the idea and don't take the time to build a shrine to him.

[Winemkr]

From Fox.com Questions Section (Answered by Eli Attie):

7) How much character development can we expect to see from 13? I was pleased to see her evolving from the mysterious girl into a more distinct personality in this episode.

We're going to see a lot of development in her character this season -- as Thirteen goes through the various stages of her slow-death Huntington's diagnosis. The premiere was just the beginning, and we can expect all sorts of reactions and changes from her, given her rather grim prognosis.

Ugh. I was hoping Hadley would cope with her diagnosis by leaving PPTH and going off to experience life. I will barely be able to tolerate this storyline if by reactions and changes he means her coping with the diagnosis. If he means that they plan to have her start displaying symptoms, I will have to fast forward through it. She's waaaay too young to have any physical symptoms. The one thing she said that fits with a real case of Huntington's was when Kutner asked her if she was happy and she answered, "Not particularly." Some form of depression is common prior to even knowledge of the diagnosis and prior to manifestation of physical symptoms. Or as expressed by the Huntington's patient I know intimately: An absence of joy.

There are cases of juvenile Huntington's but obviously she's too old for that. Otherwise, physical and mental symptoms prior to age 50 are EXTREMELY rare. I realize we're in TV land, so she'll probably start displaying chorea in a couple of weeks.

Edited by Winemkr, Sep 29, 2008 @ 8:53 PM.

[anon004]

There are cases of juvenile Huntington's but obviously she's too old for that. Otherwise, physical and mental symptoms prior to age 50 are EXTREMELY rare. I realize we're in TV land, so she'll probably start displaying chorea in a couple of weeks.

And then she dies? Please, make it so!

[Sarah1281]

And then she dies? Please, make it so!

Why couldn't she have been on the bus?

[Houddy]

Why couldn't she have been on the bus?

Because David Shore hates the fans of this show?

There are cases of juvenile Huntington's but obviously she's too old for that.

She behaves like a juvenile. I say that's close enough.

Otherwise, physical and mental symptoms prior to age 50 are EXTREMELY rare.

And that's why the whole Huntington's storyline seems pointless. Unless they give her some rare case that actually kills her in a year, she shouldn't be acting like she's about to drop dead at any second. Then again, weren't her shaky hands supposed to be a symptom? You remember in that one ep when her hands shook oh so mysteriously? It's gone away now, but House was sure to point it out that one time it happened. lol

Huntingtons isn't, to my knowledge, some fast acting death sentence. It's not like she has cancer and was given a year to live. Yes, she knows what's probably going to kill her (unless an annoyed House fan comes along and hits you with a bus first. And I'm totally going to have an alibi, so don't even think about blaming it on me.), but it's not going to happen tomorrow, or next week.

And just from a storyline on a TV show POV, why did they give her an illness that would take so long to manifest? Was it just to try to make the fans feel sorry for her? Becuase she's obviously not going to die of it naturally during the shows run.

[Namaste]

And just from a storyline on a TV show POV, why did they give her an illness that would take so long to manifest?

For the same reason that the sword was placed over Damocles' head by Cicero. For the same reason Hitchcock said, "There is no terror in the bang, only in the anticipation of it." Suspension has been a key element used in storytelling since the Greeks. Thirteen knows she's going to die, but she doesn't know when. It's the anticipation that is sometimes the hardest. She doesn't know if she'll develop symptoms in three months or three years, or in thirteen years (so to speak). Her very reactions are an element of dealing with who she is -- for good and bad. To me, it's great and classic storytelling to create a character that has a literal ticking time bomb in her body, with no idea when it will go off.

As for the shaking hands ... that wasn't a symptom of Huntington's. It was House screwing with her by swapping out her decaf for caffeinated coffee.

[jjr]

Add to Namaste's post that the diagnosis has immediate implications for 13. Now that she knows for sure she carries the gene, which has a 50% chance of being passed on, she's going to have to decide if she's going to have kids, and the reasons not to would be pretty convincing. So that's a part of herself she's most likely going to have to give up. Knowing you how will die and that it will be well before what anyone calls "old" would be lifechanging to most people.

Edited by jjr, Sep 30, 2008 @ 1:22 PM.

[Houddy]

Thirteen knows she's going to die, but she doesn't know when.

So she's like very other living person on the planet. The only difference is she has a better idea of what might kill her.

As for the shaking hands ... that wasn't a symptom of Huntington's. It was House screwing with her by swapping out her decaf for caffeinated coffee.

Ah, forgot about that.

Now that she knows for sure she carries the gene, which has a 50% chance of being passed on, she's going to have to decide if she's going to have kids, and the reasons not to would be pretty convincing. So that's a part of herself she's most likely going to have to give up.

Now if they actually dealt with that aspect of it, that could be half way interesting (with a different actress (the caveat of all things involving Hadley)

[Sarah1281]

As for the shaking hands ... that wasn't a symptom of Huntington's. It was House screwing with her by swapping out her decaf for caffeinated coffee.

Wasn't it that she dropped a file and freaked out and bit the someone's head off (I don't remember whose) and so then House decided to spike her coffee, so to speak, and steal her wallet.

And I still can't believe he would respect HER privacy in regards to that but not Cameron's in regards to HIV. Was it just because the latter was contagious?

[anon004]

And I still can't believe he would respect HER privacy in regards to that but not Cameron's in regards to HIV. Was it just because the latter was contagious?

We could assume that, but I don't think that actually entered into it. In You Don't Want To Know, House had the Huntington's test done, and after she appealed to him not to look at it, he was shown throwing it away without opening it, so we don't really know why he did it. If I had to venture a guess, it might be because Hadley wasn't hired yet (they were still doing the survivor game), and possibly House has some actual boundaries, and decided to wait to see if she became part of his team. Once she was hired, he seemed to have no problem pushing her to take the test. Or revealing the results to the team, although he supposedly waited two months (the time between her getting the results in Wilson's Heart and the time he announced them in Dying changes Everything) for her to say something. On the Gregory House thread we were discussing how protective House is of his team. With that protectiveness probably comes a sense of ownership and control as well. Cameron already worked for him when he had the HIV test done on her and read the results ahead of her.

Hadley supposedly had the test while he was getting his brain zapped or he was unconscious from the seizure. He was probably out of the office for a while after that. (Curses writers and showrunners for not showing us ANY of his recovery for the second time!). If her whole thing is keeping things to herself, them it seems out of character for her to tell House. My question is: how did he find out about the test and the results?