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The Mentalist: The Other Fake Psychic Detective


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#11251

wand612

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 9:50 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Bruno Heller wrote the season finale. And I'm beginning to think that the next few episodes are going to show Jane and Lisbon getting closer to each other, which I guess I can live with, because it seems a reasonably mature way to proceed.
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#11252

Gbd

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 12:14 PM

TheLabRat care to expound on your WTF? Hard to answer otherwise. But for the record, I was referring to the producers/writers/Heller, who say one thing and show just enough of another on screen for me to call it nonsense. I was not referring to the fans who would rather not see them get together, in which case of course is it not nonsense.
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#11253

luculent

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 5:02 PM

 One of the few places where one gets more than "oh, he/she is sooo cute" and stuff. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Now and then, that is. Tony Hill

 

But but but...oh okay.

I'll try to restrict my giggling enthusiasm for SB's looks. Promise.  I won't ever say he's soooo cute, because 'cute' doesn't even go close to describing his assets.

But only for this post. Next post...      *licks lips, hehe*

 

Something I've been thinking about, after sjohnson's interesting post upstairs, and I guess it's just perspective again, neither wrong nor right:

 

For mine, I don't think Jane gives two damns that he killed either Carter, or the real RJ. Like VoiceofJoy, I think it will be a cold day in hell when he says/feels sorry. That was his mission, and mission fulfilled. Duty discharged. Vengeance taken.

 

I will never forget the serene little smile of victory on his face, when he sits at the table and waits to be arrested for TC's murder. He says later, ''I did what I had to do and I will live with the consequences.' 

Even harder when he so physically strangles the real RJ, then thinks for a moment about ending it all and decides not to. I don't believe that response is due to guilt, but to the feeling that it is all over, years of anguish and hate, and that act might finally bring him peace.

 

The talk with the shrink is so intriguing. Jane basically admits that killing RJ hasn't brought him the closure he so needs, because in the end, it still couldn't bring his wife and child back.

 

This has been such a theme throughout the series.

 

In ep. 304 Max Winter takes a kind of revenge on the corpse of his wife's killer, pumping nine bullets into his head. He tells Patrick it was satisfying, then gives him the gift of the gun. In ep. 109, Tommy tells Jane that watching his victims burn was 'redemptive.'

Then there is Heather in ep. 115, who tells Jane that killing two drug-dealing women to avenge her daughter's death gave her no satisfaction because in the end, it didn't bring Rachael back.

Jane says to the shrink, 'Doesn't feel the way you thought it would, does it.'  The shrink ends his reply with, '...Doesn't bring my wife back.' 

 

This to me is the heart of it. Jane doesn't feel much guilt that he's a murderer. However, as of now, he can't get past the loss of his wife and child, more so because of his own part in their deaths; and he certainly hasn't forgiven himself for that.

Maybe he never will. And that would be my least favourite ending.

 

  

 

 


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#11254

keepwalking

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 6:10 PM

Word to your post, luculent. I, too, believe that Jane does not care that he killed Red John or Timothy Carter. I don't think that is his issue at all. He's still living back in that room with the smiley face on the wall, He needs to figure out how to get out of there! The relationship that he has with Lisbon is pretty much the only real thing he has in his life. Regardless of what happens with them romantically, Lisbon leaving and/or getting someone else to focus her attention on is going to mess with him. She's the closest person to him in the world. He'll need to see that moving on will not mean that he loves his wife and daughter any less. It will just get him out of the self-imposed prison he's been living in for years. I think that maybe deep down Patrick wants to be able to do that, but he just doesn't know how..or is afraid to do it. Having that feeling gives me hope that the season (possibly series) will end well for Patrick. 

 

ETA

 

Regarding the whole brother/sister thing that gets tossed around from time to time...I don't see them that way. I certainly wouldn't look at my brother the way that Lisbon looks at Jane and vice versa. Plus, they have never referred to each other as such on the show - so I'm not sure that they see each other that way. 


Edited by keepwalking, Apr 18, 2014 @ 6:15 PM.

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#11255

chrisa

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 7:16 PM

Nah, I don't get the brother/sister vibe at all. Bickering is sibling type stuff, but their bickering had more innuendo to it which made it seem more spousal etc. And they've often shared looks that are defnitely not sibling type stuff. Of course, lately things are much different with a whole lot more tension.

 

I don't see Jane as caring too much about the people he's killed. He had his mission, he carried it out... TC was an evil man too, and Jane's never really had much of a problem with evil people getting what was owed them.

 

His problem is the wife/daughter and his feelings of guilt/responsibility re: their deaths. He has all sorts of different kinds of guilt about them,  provoking RJ, not being there to save them, survivor's guilt...He doesn't dare live in any house, let alone his house, he doesn't dare have a social life other than with work, he doesn't dare date anyone, he doesn't dare try to be happy etc. He thinks he himself is tarnished and being near him will cause people to get hurt. Now he even has guilt about possibly moving on (removing and then replacing that ring on the island).The list goes on and on. It's like he doesn't want to be needed so that he won't let anyone down again and the best way to do that is to just not be in a position to be really needed... so he keeps his distance and he suffers as a result because he needs people but won't admit it.

 

That 4th sneak peek where Lisbon says she likes a man who is a bad liar... this is the second time she is directly addressing the characteristics she has issues with in Jane...the first was the phone call conversation with Pike in Violets. She's deliberately comparing the 2 men without Pike knowing what she's talking about and maybe wants him to ask her what/who she's talking about. Obviousy even when on a date with Pike she can't help but think about Jane. Poor girl. She's got it so bad that even when a perfect guy comes along, she's still thinking about the flawed one. 


Edited by TWoP Howard, Yesterday, 04:11 AM.
Unnecessary spoiler tags

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#11256

luculent

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 7:18 PM

keepwalking yes.

I guess we toss that phrase around - moving on - when in fact Jane won't ever move on, in one sense. Yet in the sense of still having a life to live, a second chance at happiness - probably a very different kind of happiness than he had with Angela and Charlotte - well that would just fill me up with gladness.

I think the ring is still a vital visual aid for the audience, in Jane's progression...

 

As for the sibling thing, I couldn't agree with you more.

I was horrified when BH actually spoke of Jane and Lisbon in these terms, early on. (Shows that the writers speak glibly sometimes, and not quite accurately - often the case with any spoken conversation.)  

 

What sibling talks about seducing the other? And what siblings flirt outrageously with each other, except for the Borgias? Or want clarification about the L-word, that one of them said?  Or use eye-sex as a means of communication?  Please. They have never been siblings, brother/sister.  Crawly just contemplating it.


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#11257

SweetToooth

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Posted Yesterday, 01:15 AM

luculent when I talked about exploring his feelings about killing a man, I don't think I was talking about guilt necessarily. But just the feeling of a life being taken away under your own hands. What that moment meant to him.

 

Brother and sister? Not since he made her...was it something origami...in the first episode, and she smiled.


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#11258

TWoP Howard

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Posted Yesterday, 04:19 AM

A reminder: Sneak peeks, promo pics, and video preview clips are not spoilers. Interviews with show runners, producers, writers, actors, and other staff are not spoilers. Episode descriptions or synopses are not spoilers. I've removed all of the tags on the last several pages because they were not spoilers. Our rules take precedence here, so please reread the Spoiler section of the FAQ. Any material provided by the network to promote the show is not a spoiler, which is why none of the things linked to above are spoilers. Spoilers are leaked information that the show runners do not want out there. 

 

You are each responsible for knowing and following the rules of the site, even though it's only for a few weeks more. Another poster making a mistake doesn't absolve the rest of you from using or not using the tags properly. I know it was coming from a place of consideration, which is nice if it's a gray area, but that's not the case here. Know and follow the rules so that you don't confuse your fellow posters, please, and PM me if you have any questions after reading the FAQ. Thanks.



#11259

millahnna

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Posted Yesterday, 05:40 AM

I agree with those who aren't keen on a Jane/Lisbon pairing.  During the first few seasons, I was open to the idea because the actors are solid and have good chemistry.  The platonic dynamic feels really set in now, for me, though and it would take at least a whole season in addition to this one to change that enough for it to work for me.  I've never seen their stuff as flirty.


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#11260

jpd3

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Posted Yesterday, 06:22 AM

I'm not sure why the general consensus is that Pike is a great man, perfect, etc. We just don't know enough about him to jump to that conclusion. I guess I keep hoping he's a throwback to Red John in some way, shape or form. But that could just be because I wasn't happy with the way RJ ended.


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#11261

VoiceofJoy

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Posted Yesterday, 09:14 AM

Here is an interview with Robin Tunney. Read at your own risk:

https://tv.yahoo.com...entsharebuttons

Coming from someone who has been married a long time, the Jane/Lisbon banter sounds like an old married couple to me. I know of what I speak on this one.

Edited by VoiceofJoy, Yesterday, 09:19 AM.

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#11262

secnarf

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Posted Yesterday, 12:01 PM

Thanks VoiceofJoy! It made me excited for this week's episode :)
Although, I laughed out loud at this part: "The pair's flirting has grown more serious since the dark shadow of Red John has left the show."

Are they watching the same show???


 


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#11263

fnftw

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Posted Yesterday, 12:04 PM

Thank you VoiceofJoy for posting the interview. I love RT she's so adorable, it was a fun interview.

 
I thought it was quite interesting how openly she talked about Lisbon's feelings for Jane, waiting for him, pining even, where I always thought the writers' intent was to make it ambiguous, sort of (so they don't have to commit to it). I was quite disappointed with how they pictured Lisbon's life after RJ and am glad she mentioned it, I felt the same way. I also found her comment about pleasing the fans interesting. I think it's part of the problem, trying too hard to "please your client", you can never please everyone and you end up losing your own artistic vision. 
 
Lastly, I'd really like someone to tell her that not all fans' allegiance are with Jane, some of us like Lisbon better! 
 

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#11264

millahnna

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Posted Yesterday, 01:31 PM

For all that I don't like the romantic angle, I sure do like the way Tunney talks about it.  I dig actor mental process stuff.


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#11265

SweetToooth

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Posted Yesterday, 02:13 PM

Lastly, I'd really like someone to tell her that not all fans' allegiance are with Jane, some of us like Lisbon better! 

 

 

I don't think she meant that they like her better than him, but that they want her to end up with him and not Pike.

 

I also am going to read between the lines about her "big decision" and stick my neck out by saying that it will be what I (and others) have predicted. It will come down to her choosing the staid, sedate, normal life with Pike, or roller coaster Jane. The question is, at that point, what will Jane have done to prove he's the man for her? Does he state his feelings? I can't wait to find out. I mean, I CAN wait if she chooses Pike...

 

The reason Pike is seen as perfect, is because I don't think they'd pull a Grace situation twice. A guy who works for law enforcement who is really evil. Not only that, but with Grace's guy, I knew from second one he was evil. I just knew it. I was not at all surprised by the reveal. With this guy, all I smell is "nice guy" which again, may be a problem for Lisbon, who has never been a "nice guy" kind of gal. Also, Pike was great with Jane, respectful toward Lisbon, etc. I think what the show wanted was to present Lisbon with an appealing "anti-Jane" option and see if she preferred it.

 

I'm afraid to read the last two pages now, since they've been unspoilered, so anything I say is purely speculation. But I did have to read the Tunney interview when I saw that she talked about pining away for Jane. I guess that nixes the brother/sister situation, when the actress herself says she's playing it like she's been waiting for him to come around. I also like that thing she said about being punished for being loyal to him. So, I'm glad Jane realized that loyalty and got her into a place where she might not have as big of a title, but it's more prestige.


Edited by SweetToooth, Yesterday, 02:16 PM.

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#11266

fnftw

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Posted Yesterday, 02:35 PM

I don't think she meant that they like her better than him, but that they want her to end up with him and not Pike.

 

Like him better than her you mean. Either way, I read/heard RT mention this subject in interviews more than once (How Jane's the star, the reason why everyone's watching, the character everyone loves and wants most to be happy etc), and to me at least, there is no show without Lisbon (who I'd like most to see happy).

 


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#11267

SweetToooth

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Posted Yesterday, 02:41 PM

Like him better than her you mean. Either way, I read/heard RT mention this subject in interviews more than once (How Jane's the star, the reason why everyone's watching, the character everyone loves and wants most to be happy etc), and to me at least, there is no show without Lisbon (who I'd like most to see happy).

 

 

No. Like him better than Pike. And feel she'd be happier with Jane, rather than Pike. That's how I feel, anyway. I adore Lisbon, and I want her to be happy, but I don't want to see her "settling" for Pike, when she really loves Jane, and the only reason she's not with Jane, is because he won't get out of his own freaking way. Take off the shoes. Take off the ring. LIVE, Jane. It's been how many years now? He can stop with the guilt trip and allow himself to be happy with Lisbon.

 

I'm really hoping that seeing himself losing her, puts him into action.


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#11268

fnftw

fnftw

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Posted Yesterday, 02:53 PM

I hope so too. However, I don't know how they can pull it off in the last 2 seconds of the (possibly) series, if that's the plan. They really need another season to properly develop that in order for it to be believable, IMO. Then again, if it's the series finale, I'll take what I can get.


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#11269

Shadda

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Posted Yesterday, 05:44 PM

 

 

With this guy, all I smell is "nice guy" which again, may be a problem for Lisbon, who has never been a "nice guy" kind of gal.

This is what I see. I think that she will turn down Pike, not for Jane, but because she realizes she will never be truly in love with him.  That doesn't mean she doesn't love him, she just isn't in love with him.  I also think that Jane knows that.  I could see a scene where Jane shows up at Lisbon's apartment just after Pike has left and askes her what her answer was.  When she tells him she turned down the proposal Jane would be quick to point out that she never chooses the nice guy, it's in her DNA to choose the more difficult guy.  So she wouldn't be turning down Pike because of Jane, but because of her own internal default setting.  Where it would go from there I have no idea, but it wouldn't be about Pike verses Jane, but it would be about Lisbon herself.  Which is what it should be, to my way of thinking.


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#11270

SweetToooth

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Posted Yesterday, 11:58 PM

Shadda hey! I enjoy talking to you about Grimm, and it looks like I'll enjoy talking to you about The Mentalist.

 

Your observations, I feel, are dead-on. Yep. That's what I was thinking. That Lisbon would turn him down not for Jane, but because she knows she SHOULD want pike and she SHOULD love Pike, but she just doesn't. You can't force that kind of thing. I would not want Jane to put pressure on her at all. I would also want her to come to the conclusion on her own.

 

Yes, I do love that even though Jane can be manipulative, he's not standing in the way of her and Pike and letting her figure out things on her own. I would love it if he goes there to pick up the pieces, and they at last talk about/give into their feelings for one another. I also think the natural chemistry between these two is off-the-charts. That they've had six years together, has only strengthened that chemistry. It's like there's Jane and Lisbon, and everyone else. Okay, maybe Cho in there a little bit. Because I have undying love for him, if only for the line, "So you want this to be my fault."


Edited by SweetToooth, Yesterday, 11:59 PM.

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#11271

FrogsRule

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Posted Today, 03:57 AM

I thought all you guys had moved to the other forum already, so I posted over there after last Sunday night's show. :-) To recap what I wrote there:

 

Sweet Toooth, we won't be able to have our season/series finale show-watching party, unless you come to Vegas. I took a new job that made me leave beloved SoCal. It's also kept me from watching much TV until the last two weeks.

 

I really hated last week's show. It was the first time I had watched since the end of February. and I feel like Heller has already abandoned the show. The least he could have done: Hand it off to a writer who cares. They don't bother about location, they don't bother about fresh plots, they don't bother about the characters and the emotional connection between the team. It feels like a new show that is struggling to find mojo. They shouldn't be at this state.

And I feel certain this is the 1001th time this has been said, but holy crap, enough of Fisher already. She grates on my last nerve.

 

I miss the Mentalist.


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#11272

chrisa

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Posted Today, 09:43 AM

ITA, Shadda. I also hope that it's Lisbon making her decision without any input/influence from Jane, but her own realization of what SHE wants. Only that would show her true independence of thought. Jane not doing anything to influence her relationship with Pike is one of the best things he could do to show her he cares... other than say he himself cares. Making it a choice b/w two is wrong because it minimizes the strength of the relationship with either one. It should not be an either/or situation, but THE one right choice.  


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