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The Mentalist: The Other Fake Psychic Detective


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#8791

SmallNatural30

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 9:12 PM

I'm definitely on your page about this subject, SmallNatural30.  She has to be important.  Especially with the new information that Jane spent time at Child Protective Services!!!  That was a huge new bit of info, don't you think?  - VoiceofJoy

 

 

Agreed, that does seem like a very big clue that they are about ready to unveil his mother - at some point - after letting that bit of a reveal about his past out.  Otherwise, why have Jane mention he spent time there at all?  He didn't say it was because his Dad treated him bad or neglected him was the reason, just that he spent time there.  


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#8792

VoiceofJoy

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 9:18 PM

It also explains why he never wants to leave children they come across in Child Services.  


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#8793

luculent

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 9:44 PM

Such a  restrained episode, the  quiet darkness of it, the mind games. As a finale I so enjoyed it and happily it didn't include Jane running amok as he has done previously.

Wonderful that we're finally getting into Jane's back story. Thank you writers, even though you've tested my patience these last five seasons. Thank you more for the quality of this season. For mine so well done.

 

Firstly, can we assume that Red John  has some connection with the psychic world, since Barlow described him as having 'real psychic powers'? 

We know that RJ doesn't have real psychic powers. Phooey to that. He can 'read minds' as much as Jane can. 

However it's been a fascinating theme throughout this series - religion, faith, the slimy side of the psychic world, Lisbon's cross,  Jane's atheism, van Pelt's belief in both the kingdom of God and the psychic world etc.  

 

About Jane's memory:

Not even RJ can categorically state that Jane didn't tell anyone about his childhood memory, which has spanned thirty odd years now. That's simply impossible to know and to monitor.  So:

1. Jane told either his Mum or Dad, his wife (at a later date or even as a child), Danny, a carny friend, or maybe even a child that was with him in Child Protective Services.

2. When as a twelve year old Jane saw the little girl hoisted into the air, he laughed, or smiled, or acted 'happy' (perhaps an unusual occurrence in his young life), so that it was noticed, either by RJ or a friend, and held for future reference.

3. It was an entirely implanted 'memory.'

4. Jane is Red John.

 

Six of the seven suspects work in Law Enforcement in one way or another, and even Stiles, through Visualize, has police connections.  Easy for Barlow then, to know Lisbon's father was an alcoholic, and to know her feelings for Jane. What's his relationship to RJ...

Seeing him sitting there, all in black, swigging from the flask. Nice. Shudders thinking about him bringing up a baby.

 

Loved the interplay between Jane and Lisbon, and I'm enjoying the subtle ebb and flow of their relationship. The  'you're a little in love with him' is untouched by both of them, since it's the bleeding obvious. But the way Jane ushers her into his attic, hand on her back,  seems very protective.

 

Lisbon protests that she does have dishonesty within her, even though Jane says, 'No offence but there's no dishonesty within you.'  Then after Jane mentions Bertram as a suspect, she says, 'No... Oh my God, how am I going to face him!?' and Jane rolls his eyes.  Great lines. 


Edited by luculent, May 6, 2013 @ 9:47 PM.

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#8794

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 9:47 PM

I'm just about to re-watch, so maybe soon enough I'll find the answer to my own question, but -- what was with the quick exchange between Lisbon and Jane about Lisbon's hand at the start of the episode?  What was the purpose of that?  I don't remember anything else about it later in the episode... or did I miss something?


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#8795

AddisonLove

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 9:57 PM

I'm new to this show. I watched two reruns on Friday night and instantly got hooked, so I have a lot of catching up to do over hiatus. I have been watching a bunch of clips on youtube and reading online about it. I really enjoy the Jane/Lisbon dynamic.

 

I liked the finale, but can't really comment on it until I see all 5 seasons. One thing is bugging me though, what happened to Lisbon's wrist? Did she break it in a previous episode and for some reason not telling Jane the real story?


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#8796

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 10:06 PM

Ha, thank goodness I'm not the only one wondering that, AddisonLove!


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#8797

autrice

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 10:07 PM

About Lisbon's wrist: Robin Tunney actually broke her wirst.  They tried to hide it in the Red Velvet Cupcakes ep but here they decided to let it show.  It was ncie to see Jane concerned for Lisbon.  When she hurt her ankle in Red Gold he wasn't as worried.


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#8798

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 10:28 PM

Ha, thank goodness I'm not the only one wondering that, AddisonLove!

 

Lol.

 

About Lisbon's wrist: Robin Tunney actually broke her wirst.  They tried to hide it in the Red Velvet Cupcakes ep but here they decided to let it show.

 

 

Oh okay. Thanks for explaining autrice.

 

Interview with Robin Tunney about finale and next season http://www.tvguide.c...ed-1065003.aspx

 


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#8799

Green Eyez

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 12:05 AM

I was creeped out, and that's always a good thing.
 
Second, I'm slow on the uptake and didn't realize it was the finale. FrogsRule I'm sorry, I did answer you, but with the way the forum's been running, you might not have seen it. Oh well, there's always next year.
 
Third, I guess I don't follow this show or know character names the way y'all do. I saved the episode and will have to go back and see who the heck these people are. I mean, of course I know Stiles, Betram, and Kirkland, but the rest are all a blur, even with the pictures.
 
As for Jane phoning it in, whoa, hold the phone. I was in tears when he choked up when he said RJ plucked that good memory out of his brain? I was waiting for him to say he was joking or something, but it was a real, raw, powerful moment for me. The way his voice broke and he gave a little bit of back and forth crazy eyes, helped with the overall effect. I don't know what anyone else is watching, but I saw a magnificent performance. Especially the end where once again, RJ had gotten the better of him. The way he crushed that disc. I felt his hopelessness. Like, RJ is even taking his good memories. He's sucking the man dry of everything he is. 
 
As for people wanting to punch Jane in the face, well, that's been done many, many, many times in the past.
 
And I also agree that RJ is not an outwardly charismatic person. Funny that many here had Mashburn, and he wasn't even on the list. Which I like, because I dig that guy. They bring him back just enough to remember you missed him, but not so much it becomes annoying. But anyway, except for Stiles, I just don't think they'd go for someone who's so obviously charismatic. 
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#8800

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 2:06 AM

Working backwards... Oh shush. ;-)

 

GreenEyez, I think your message probably got lost in the transition. There's got to be a TWoP version of the Bermuda Triangle out there. But we couldn't have had a viewing party anyway, because we were evacuated for 36 hours during the Springs Fire. It's amazing and mindboggling that our homes made it through intact. The fire came within two blocks of my house. It's been an awe-some experience, emphasis on awe.

So watching the Mentalist season finale (after TAR's finale) was a nice, relaxing change of pace!

 

I totally agree about the nuanced performances, both by Baker and by Tunney. It felt so absolutely natural and real, nothing forced.

 

And I also agree that RJ is not an outwardly charismatic person. ... But anyway, except for Stiles, I just don't think they'd go for someone who's so obviously charismatic.

 

This got me to thinking. Some of the most charismatic and evil people in the history of the world have not been outwardly charming or handsome or debonair. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro - these men perpetrated vast crimes against humanity, swaying entire populaces to do their will and love-love-love them. All without the type personality that we would normally associate with "charisma" or charm. Maybe that's where Heller is going?

 

AddisonLove, that interview with Robin Tunney is excellent. Thanks for posting. One interesting tidbit from it: The poll at the bottom? This forum's prime suspect ranks #6 out of 7 in that TV Guide poll. Voters are going for Brett Partridge or Bret Stiles, with Partridge leading. Kirkland is in third place.

 

autrice, thanks for the explanation about Robin Tunney's wrist. They kept it very much in character. She just dealt with it.

 

Such a restrained episode, the quiet darkness of it, the mind games. As a finale I so enjoyed it and happily it didn't include Jane running amok as he has done previously.

 

Luculent, this describes it very well. To me, it also felt like a gigantic turning point. But regarding their individual reactions to Sean Barlow's announcement that Lisbon is a little bit in love with Jane - later when they are talking in the car and each starts to talk over the other, Lisbon said she would go first. Then she begins to address Sean Barlow's comment. Jane cuts her off and says that Barlow had said he was too secretive, and quashed Lisbon's attempt to talk it out. I thought that was significant too.

 

SmallNatural and VoiceOfJoy, I very much expected there to actually be talk of Jane's mother in the season finale. I was a little disappointed that we got soooo close to her, but no further. It's got to be a very big shoe dropping. There's a book about the Holocaust that is entitled The Language of Silence, written by a German professor who was six at war's end. Her premise is that the 50-year silence about the Holocaust in Germany says more than any of the few words spoken on the topic. That comes to mind with Jane's back story, especially regarding his mother. What is not being said is very, very important.


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#8801

drj13

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 5:42 AM

 

Some of the most charismatic and evil people in the history of the world have not been outwardly charming or handsome or debonair. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro - these men perpetrated vast crimes against humanity, swaying entire populaces to do their will and love-love-love them. All without the type personality that we would normally associate with "charisma" or charm. 

 

Excellent point, Frogsrule. Also, for everyone who thinks none/most of the suspects' actors haven't the chops to pull off the real RJ, go back to 1x9 Flame Red's interrogation of Tommy Olds, played by Fred Koehler.


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#8802

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 6:27 AM

First of all, are we sure these comments are gonna stick?  My Firefox still can't access the forums; I had to get here via Opera.

 

Next: I am SO HAPPY Mashburn's not on the list.  My vote is for the ghoul, Partridge, although Haffner runs a close (eyed) second.

 

It is becoming a bit ridiculous that RJ has all these powers, be they psychic or manipulative.  Oh, Puh-leeeeze.  He knows PJ's happy memory?

 

Please refresh my memory:  When Kirkland & Jane bump into each other the first time @ CBI, doesn't Jane say, "Do I know you?" and Bob replies, "I know YOU."  Am I remembering that correctly?  If so, I'm going with Kirkland knowing Jane from the carny days & having had surgery to alter his appearance.

 

What  don't get about RJ's minions:  Laura SG says, "Red John's been good to me," and later takes a suicide pill.  Huh?  If the minions all know this guy is the infamous RED JOHN, aren't they a bit alarmed when taken under his wing?  Or when he gives them the suicide pill to carry on their person at all times, just in case?  Just how screwed up ARE these people, to knowingly be charmed by a serial killer?


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#8803

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 8:25 AM

First and foremost, I am so glad your house is still standing, Frogsrule.  How frightening.  Condolences to your neighbors who have lost theirs.

 

I am SO HAPPY Mashburn's not on the list.

 

 

Me, too, PW.  Having Lisbon sleep with Red John would be a little too creepy.  Besides, he was too much fun.

 

 

As for Jane phoning it in, whoa, hold the phone. I was in tears when he choked up when he said RJ plucked that good memory out of his brain? I was waiting for him to say he was joking or something, but it was a real, raw, powerful moment for me. The way his voice broke and he gave a little bit of back and forth crazy eyes, helped with the overall effect. I don't know what anyone else is watching, but I saw a magnificent performance. Especially the end where once again, RJ had gotten the better of him. The way he crushed that disc. I felt his hopelessness. Like, RJ is even taking his good memories. He's sucking the man dry of everything he is. 

 

 

This.  I teared up when he was talking about his happy memory, too, and I thought his whole performance was excellent.  The very internalized anxiety of a man who's being pushed to the edge of his courage in dealing with this whole situation.  The showman's veneer is gone, he's being honest with Lisbon, and his desperation is pushed barely under the surface.  Loved his steely coldness when talking to Barlow - two "readers" trying to read each other, both met with poker faces.

 

When Kirkland & Jane bump into each other the first time @ CBI, doesn't Jane say, "Do I know you?" and Bob replies, "I know YOU."  Am I remembering that correctly?

 

 

Yes, you are.  

 

Just how screwed up ARE these people, to knowingly be charmed by a serial killer?

 

From what we've seen, RJ has ways of finding damaged people who have unmet needs that they desperately want.  He finds those things out, and exploits these damaged and fragile people.  To me this points to Kirkland again, because Homeland Security would have a need for the kind of man who can interrogate, manipulate, and control people.  He promises their heart's desire, and they accept his leadership.  The Child Services lady wanted a child, Sheriff Hardy wanted that girl, etc. etc.  

 


But the way Jane ushers her into his attic, hand on her back,  seems very protective.

 

 

 

He has to know that RJ will come after Lisbon, and that's a huge part of his fear and misery.  He's "faltered" and begun to care about someone again, so Red John will take that away, too.  He's begun to lean on her more just at the time when it's more dangerous to do so.  More guilt for a man already drowning in guilt.

 

All the "car conversations" between these two were pure gold, just like in Red Velvet Cupcakes.  Well done, Tunney and Baker.


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#8804

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 8:53 AM

Just how screwed up ARE these people, to knowingly be charmed by a serial killer?


Considering that there are real-life people that reach out to known, convicted and jailed serial killers (and women who marry them), it's actually not that weird. Sadly.
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#8805

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 9:34 AM

Also on The Following most of them follow their leader blindly and die for him.

 

Anyway I'm still intrigued why Lisbon didn't deny having love dreams for Jane..


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#8806

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 10:18 AM

FrogsRule - Personally, I did not think that Lisbon was going to talk with Jane about what Barlow said. I thought she was going to tell Jane that she could not work without knowing the list of suspects. There has always been that trust issue between them. I do not think that they are at a point to where they can candidly talk about what they might feel for one another. It would be better to let it lie. There was nothing to gain by bringing it up, IMO. This was my favorite scene between them. When Jane told her that Bertram was on the list she was like, "How can I face him?" Jane's reaction was priceless! 

 

I do really enjoy the Lisbon/Jane dynamic. Baker and Tunney have a nice chemistry together. It has been interesting to see the subtle shift of their relationship over the years. It moves at a snails pace, but it has been fun to watch most of the time. However, I will be surprised if Heller ever puts them together. 

 

As far as RJ goes...I don't think he necessarily has to be a man who oozes charisma to have people follow him. There is power in knowing what pushes ones button. Of being able to "read minds". I read this quote a long time ago and it has always stuck with me: "If you can be believed, you can change everything in somebody." I find that to be true, to a certain extent. If someone believes in a person or a thing, most people would go to great lengths to protect it. There are a lot of people who are lost in the world, who have no idea of who they are or where they come from, or have a broken background. At heart people just want somewhere to belong and fit in. Desperate people do desperate things. Maybe RJ offers them a home of sorts. Someone with whom they can belong with and fit in. Hell, maybe these followers are just weak people whom he has hypnotized to do the things he wants. I don't really like to deeply analyze RJ myself, because I feel it's a losing game! I do like to read everyone else's take on him though.

 

I've always thought that there was some significance in the lack of information about Jane's mother. That has to play a part sometime, no?

 

Did anyone else think that the picture they used for Bertram was strange looking? I've looked at it a few times and it does not really look like him at all.  Bertram and Kirkland are involved in something together. Didn't they have a scene together assessing Lisbon? That was strange. How does that fit into the big picture?

 

I remembered the Sheriff from season 1 because Jane and him played rock, paper, scissors and Jane kept winning. The Smith guy however, wasn't even a blip on my radar. 


Edited by keepwalking, May 7, 2013 @ 11:20 AM.

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#8807

MightyHoolez

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 11:14 AM

I noticed that about Bertam's pic. The pic of McAllister didn't look like him either-- he looked younger and better in the pic than in his episode way back when.

You know, It would be darkly funny if it turns out that Jane played rock/paper/scissors with Red John at the beginning of year one. Ultimately, Rock (strong, impassioned Jane) eventually breaks Scissors (bc Red John cuts his victims)!

*crickets*

*hangs head, slinks away*
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#8808

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 11:28 AM

 
 
I hate to be picky, but it's Malcolm McDowell.  Big difference.  And yes, he's Stiles, the leader of Visualize.

 

- My bad. Can't believe I did or missed that.

 

I still think RJ having access to leverage or the ability to manipulate/brainwash. I would'nt be surprised if the at least two of the suspect are in cohoots with the original RJ holding something over the other.
 

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 


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#8809

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 5:04 PM

Newbie to this thread, so... hi! (I've been about 2 seasons behind for a while now, but spent the last few months catching up. Fun stuff.)

 

Was this past episode the last of the season?

 

I'm not sure I'm buying Partridge as Red John. How long have these killings been going on, how many years? How young would he have to have been back when it all started? It seems weird. Also, though he's definitely grossly intrigued by the Red John murders and annoyingly blasé about the victims sometimes, I think I don't buy him as charismatic like Red John supposedly is. I definitely noted the Hitler reference above (very good point!) but appearance is not what makes Partridge an illogical choice for me. It's that he's always seemed weird and creepy and offensive (and awkward), and I don't buy Red John coming off that way at all. In fact, someone like Lorelei would probably see right through Partridge if he were all creepy and (as Jane astutely says) ghoulish. She'd tell him to take a hike. Because of that, I could see Red John being one of the others on the list much more than Partridge could be. Instead, I could see him more as a Red John follower, not THE Red John.

 

As for Jane as Red John... I just don't know. It's possible the showrunners could try to pull that off, even if it creates inconsistencies with what we've already seen, and it would certainly be twisted. But I feel like there must be times throughout the series where it would have been physically impossible for Jane to be in two places at once, like there'd have to be timing issues with some of the cases and he couldn't have done it. I'm not sure. I'd have to rewatch the whole series with that in mind.

 

Also, I think it would be really weird for that Lorelei video -- if Jane were Red John, that would mean Lorelei had been such a loyal follower that she didn't care that she was following a man who talks about himself in the third person and has her sit there and read a statement from himself to himself.


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#8810

luculent

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 5:15 PM

To me, it also felt like a gigantic turning point.

 

 

FrogsRule I couldn't agree more. Tbh, I am as intrigued by the changing nature of the 'game' as I am by the reveal of the suspects seven.

 

* In the attic there at the end, Jane isn't just shattered because after all his work RJ has bested him again. He seems to be filled with dread. He must be thinking of the gravity of the future - for himself, the team, Lisbon in particular, friends and acquaintances, other colleagues, innocents. RJ has threatened bloodshed until Jane catches him, or he gets Jane. A terrifying thought, the ramifications of which must be staggering.

Of course this also changes the nature of the hunt. I imagine, given the suspects, it will need to be handled secretly by the team, and they will need to surround each other for safety, far more than previously; and it should be more proactive now.

 

* There is now a  subtle shift in the Jane/Lisbon relationship, partly due to the above, and to the 'you're a little bit in love with him.' I think both you and keepwalking are right regarding their conversation. It is about the trust issue, since Jane immediately confides in her; and it is about their relationship, which can't proceed at this point, without enormous threat to Lisbon's wellbeing.  His uber protectiveness of her in the attic bears testament to that. Just my take.

 

* We have finally been allowed a real taste of Jane's past life and his 'long story.'  I'm so chuffed. Mum must have some part to play in it all. Interesting that Pete, in their first conversation, says, 'Social workers, eh?' regarding Roddy's situation. Jane tilts his head down and raises his eyebrows, as though in shared understanding, perhaps a reference to Jane's own past.

 

FrogsRule the notion of evil men with charisma manipulating the masses,  without being good-looking hero types, is again spot on: It doesn't take good looks to promise a better life where happiness and community abound; or to spread lies thickly, with a sprinkling of truth, to sound impressive as Father de Buono says; or to give purpose to the aimless and disenfranchised, even if it's an evil one; or to spin the glory of a utopian world and one's potential in it, to the seeking.

For the purpose of this show alone, look at Visualize and its leader; even the ease with which Stiles tries to get to Grace.

 

Keepwalking, I hope you don't. I so enjoyed your thoughts.

 

VoiceofJoy what is it about SB and couches? First the sleepy couch, then the couch at Barlow's, woh, then the bonus of the chair when speaking to Pete. His pose was a study in easy, inexcusably elegant, backwards-leaning, cross-legged sexiness. I didn't notice of course. I was looking at the timber chair. Very nice.

 


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#8811

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 8:22 PM

Welcome, SinkWriter72.  The show creator, Bruno Heller, has said several times that Patrick Jane is not Red John.  I believe him.

 

It would be darkly funny if it turns out that Jane played rock/paper/scissors with Red John at the beginning of year one. Ultimately, Rock (strong, impassioned Jane) eventually breaks Scissors (bc Red John cuts his victims)

 

 

I don't think the sheriff is Red John, but I love your reasoning there, Mighty Hoolez.

 

luculent, I have no idea *bats eyelashes innocently* what you're talking about.  The timber chair was exquisite.

 

Another thought about Barlow:  We are shown him drinking afterward, so he must know something first hand about the daughters of alcoholics being good women.  

 

There are more things I want to know...more things:

 

The Barlows consider themselves real psychics.  As opposed to "fake," money grubbing psychics like Jane.  Is this significant?

 

I desperately want to know why Jane was being held in Child Protective Services. (I love backstory so much)

 

I want to know why Kirkland was tracking Jane when he started at CBI, and how he knew Jane was in a psych ward when no one else did. 

 

Aaand, I want to know the three things Jane knows about Lisbon that she doesn't think he knows. LOL


Edited by VoiceofJoy, May 7, 2013 @ 8:36 PM.

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#8812

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 10:21 PM

Delurking to say that the actor who plays Partridge is in his mid-forties. So age-wise he could be RJ. I do think it's Kirkland though. Something about him...
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#8813

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 10:47 PM

and how he knew Jane was in a psych ward when no one else did.


For the life of me I don't remember Kirkland ever referring to this. When was it?
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#8814

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Posted May 8, 2013 @ 7:20 AM

For the life of me I don't remember Kirkland ever referring to this. When was it? 

 

 

IIRC, the first time we saw Kirkland was when he was in the limousine asking the woman from the FBI to get information from CBI.  It was the flashback episode, when Jane first started at CBI.  I can't look for sure because it's disappeared from my DVR, but I think the FBI lady was talking to Minelli.

 

Also, for everyone who thinks none/most of the suspects' actors haven't the chops to pull off the real RJ, go back to 1x9 Flame Red's interrogation of Tommy Olds, played by Fred Koehler.

 

 

Yes, he was quite good, wasn't he, drj13?  It reminded me a bit of that scene in Primal Fear with Ed Norton (I won't spoil it).  I will never forget that scene because the hair literally rose on the back of my neck.  Creep.  E.

 

 

Another nice little detail - you know how Jane's attic is always so neat and tidy?  In the end scene when he's so upset, his bed is unmade and messy.


Edited by VoiceofJoy, May 8, 2013 @ 7:51 AM.

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#8815

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Posted May 8, 2013 @ 10:11 AM

Tommy Olds, played by Fred Koehler.

 

I'm happy to see him working.  He was a mouse-wesen guy on Grimm, too.  I'm almost forgetting that he was Chip on Kate & Allie - Jane Curtin's youngest.  He seems to have transitioned to adult roles well.


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#8816

MightyHoolez

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Posted May 8, 2013 @ 12:10 PM

Okay, this is a serious theory -- anybody find any merit in the following?

Why so many Bretts? Nearly 30% of the list is comprised of Bretts. Do you know a lot of Bretts? I don't. I think it's a comparatively uncommon name. I wasn't kidding in what I said up thread, about Partridge being Stiles' son. I seriously think this could be true. That's how Stiles knew about Kristina. Partridge learned the family tricks from Brett, just as Jane learned the tricks from his own dad (Tyger Tyger, you know. Two boys, learning the tricks from two shyster dads, one burns bright as a golden boy and the other goes dark as night). Partridge was originally Brett Stiles Jr. but took his mother's maiden name of Partridge after he fell out with the old man. Stiles can't turn him in but does not help him outright. Partridge originally hated Jane bc of the insults made on the television show, but the hatred has deepened since stiles has shown such a beaming interest in Jane. Sibling rivalry of a kind, Cain and Abel. Taking it a step further, maybe the sibling
connection is literal-- Janes mom was a member of visualize, and Stiles slept with her, cheating on Partridge's mother who cried and cried about it to little Brett Jr and maybe even went crazy over it, making young Jr. burn with hatred for his father and for the illegitimate baby Jane, the bastard sibling. Janet's may or may not have ever been married to janes dad. Maybe she died or was killed and the baby wound up in the carny world somehow.

Doesn't this make sense? Why else would visualize and stiles keep coming up and playing such a part in this show? Where else would Partridge find his minions, except by poaching off the fringes of disgruntled Visualizers? Why would Stiles know jack about Red John if not because his troubled son IS Red John?

At the very least, there has to be some connection between Stiles and Partridge. Heller always tells everybody that every obscure detail is charged with meaning, so surely having two suspects with the same fairly uncommon first name must have significance.

Edited by MightyHoolez, May 8, 2013 @ 12:12 PM.

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#8817

pcta

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Posted May 8, 2013 @ 12:29 PM

I like that theory - tho' it doesn't limit it to partridge, does it? Son could have changed both names? But the notion of son of Stiles is intriguing.
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#8818

Loey

Loey

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2013 @ 12:50 PM

 

 

Aaand, I want to know the three things Jane knows about Lisbon that she doesn't think he knows. LOL

 

 

 

Red John, Shmed John, who cares which one is him.  This is what I wanted to know!


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#8819

luculent

luculent

    Video Archivist

Posted May 8, 2013 @ 5:47 PM

The show creator, Bruno Heller, has said several times that Patrick Jane is not Red John.  I believe him.

 

 

 

Ooh VoiceofJoy  I'm this close to believing Mr. Heller.  So close.

My brain says it's so, but there's still a tiny niggle. I'm not saying I believe Jane is RJ, just that I haven't completely closed the door on it, seemingly impossible time-frames and all.

 

The Bruno Heller interview regarding the future of the show is fascinating, and it's also what gives me pause:  

 

* 'The Lisbon/Jane dynamic will be really explored and their feelings revealed.'  That's a biggie to let slip, although ambiguous.

* 'If and when Red John is caught...'  This implies he will be.  A huge giveaway, telling us what is going to happen?  Again ambiguous.

* "If Red John falls dead' -  another amazing piece of information to give out, if ambiguous. RJ could be both caught and/or killed in the process then.

* 'It would be odd if Red John dies and the show stops. ' So is he telling us the show will continue after RJ dies, if there's time?   And that RJ will die? Again ambiguous, but seriously, now he's apparently giving away the whole storyline.

* 'Jane has to face life's dilemmas.'  For me this is the biggest reveal of them all. Jane will still be alive after RJ is brought down?  That's a huge plot point!

 

I'm staggered that BH has divulged so much pertinent information about the plot. However it's all ambiguous. It gives me reason to doubt. And  while I  think Mr. Heller's a wonderful writer and I love this man and want to marry him,  he has been known to 'mislead.'

 

If I were protecting the entire substance of my show, I would mislead too. Then again, it could all be totally true. We are at the endgame and maybe BH is feeling freer.

 

MightyHoolez a really plausible theory. The two Brets are spelled differently, whatever that might mean. Maybe junior changed the spelling.  Brett Partridge has been there since the pilot, so must be taken seriously. 


Edited by luculent, May 8, 2013 @ 6:09 PM.

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#8820

Gbd

Gbd

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 8, 2013 @ 6:14 PM

Has Heller ever really mislead us in a major way? In any event, the only way for Jane to be RJ, considering the laws of space and time, is for the whole thing to have gone on in his head. I just don't see how you pull it off otherwise given what we've seen - they've been in rooms together, and they've also been in two different places at one time. (I know your point wasn't so much about Jane as RJ as it was about Heller's trickery, but I'm still surprised at the popularity of that theory). And if he is, well, that will be 6 or 7 television seasons that I won't be able to get back and I'll be PISSED.
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