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The Mentalist: The Other Fake Psychic Detective


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#7021

sugarmonkey

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 7:38 AM

I'm so hoping the RJ storyline ends next week. I am so tired of it. They are my least favorite episodes. They are the reason I may not buy anymore dvds, there are so many RJ eps why pay for something I don't like? They could continue the show without RJ and just do eps like the others, maybe even explore different territory creatively.
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#7022

chailey

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 8:25 AM

I'm so hoping the RJ storyline ends next week. I am so tired of it. They are my least favorite episodes.

I really like some of the RJ episodes, but agree that the storyline has been dragged out to a ridiculous degree. I wish that Bradley Whitford had been RJ, (though I would have liked to see him in multiple episodes instead of just one--love the actor).
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#7023

MightyHoolez

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 9:45 AM

The whole thing is interesting in its way, but the problem is this: all the intriguing possibilities of this three-episode arc will come to absolutely nothing. It's all just a short-term stunt that will be resolved in that first episode of season five, with little reference to it afterward and no game-changing. .

Obviously, last year was the prime example. There was all this big buildup for killing "Red John" and Heller said a bunch of nonsense about how the show was NOT going to wriggle out of it, how Patrick would have consequences -- that basically, this would change everything. And what happened? Episode one was beyond ridiculous. I was embarrassed for the writers when I saw that the show was going to exhume the intelligence-insulting, done-to-death-and-then-some plotline of a smooth talker just enrapturing a jury, no lawyer (and no possible basis in reality) needed. Poof. Thereafter, the killing of non-RJ was mentioned as a quarter-baked plot point, in the episode where the female FBI agent accused Jane of being an RJ disciple (out of nowhere, with zero sensical reason). Remember how Wainwright and the FBI agent were going to take Jane down? Yeah, me neither, really. I can't even remember the FBI agent's name, that's how much difference it made, and I watch this show regularly. It's funny how Heller's remarks always try to be ultra-mysterious, like every little detail is so important and meaningful, when no one is really steering the boat in regards to the basics. much less taking us somewhere.


The show only has two speeds -- straight procedural or character study. The first for profit, the second for some measure of quality. It is one or the other, never both. The producers cannot/will do the most basic things that would make the show both of these things. As so many here have mentioned, when the show reverts to procedural, how difficult could it possibly be to throw in a sentence, a throwaway scene, a reference or two to the past, anything that would acknowledge the Big Events of Past Seasons and show a little nuance? I assume that the continuity and development doesn't happen because a show that is mostly comprised of stand-alone procedural episodes will succeed best in syndication - any channel-flipper could watch it for the first time at two in the morning and understand it. It can be shown out-of-sequence both in this country and in foreign markets, and not confuse anyone. The more generic it is, the more profitable it is. Too bad for anyone involved who really cares about the quality of it -- the show has the ingredients to be genuine Emmy material (instead of just garnering a nom for Baker but no win) and Emmy shows do make money. Just not enough, apparently, to make it worth anyone's while to make this show an actual, real show.

So next week will be genuinely exciting for sure. A few months later, we will all tune it with great anticipation. And it will all fizzle out like a firecracker that was stored too long in a leaky basement. Baker will start phoning it in again. He'll probably still be cute though. He better be, for $30 million.
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#7024

Princess Lucky

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 10:02 AM

The whole thing is interesting in its way, but the problem is this: all the intriguing possibilities of this three-episode arc will come to absolutely nothing. It's all just a short-term stunt that will be resolved in that first episode of season five, with little reference to it afterward and no game-changing.

Agreed.

Plus, what can happen that will blow our minds? We already saw Jane "kill" Red John and it was epic and, indeed, it amounted to nothing. I don't think they can show another murder, that would be a rehash of last season's finale. So what are the dramatic options?

a) Jane just captures Red John (which would be anticlimactic compared to last season and problematic since he has actually murdered a person who wasn't Red John but will spare the actual Red John?)
b) Jane actually becomes a disciple of Red John, goes full-on crazy and becomes a murderer and Lisbon and co. have to catch him (which would be awesome but this is CBS)
c) Jane is captured or shot by Red John (which would only last 1 episode until he's released/he recovers in next season's premiere)
d) ???

I suppose we might just see Jane's downfall emotionally (which we're kind of already seeing). Which will be... glum. I also suppose a team member might die as a result of Jane's actions (though I'm not current with contracts etc or spoilers regarding people leaving). Which will be... eh. And it will still leave Red John on the run. Which will be... tedious.
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#7025

MightyHoolez

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 10:34 AM

My prediction: Jane will
Spoiler

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#7026

aml77

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 11:27 AM

You have to give Bruno Heller credit for this much: he has mastered the art of showrunner double-talk and effective deployment of smoke and mirrors. Every time he takes to the trade media to claim that Jane is "getting that much closer to Red John" I have to wonder if he's being deliberately obtuse, or if he truly believes that allowing RJ to pop up every four to six months to kill someone else and get away with it constitutes actual forward progress. For someone who's allegedly so desperate to find the person who killed his wife and daughter, Jane seems awfully damn content to sit back and do pretty much nothing in terms of proactive investigation. They don't even have so much as one confirmed suspect. The CBI has allowed the tail to wag the dog (in a manner of speaking) for much too long and at some point you have to wonder why they continue to bother, because if Jane was right about anything, it's that the way they were going wasn't getting anyone anywhere because Jane has no investigative skills. He's playing the metaphorical equivalent of Whack-a-Mole. Meanwhile, Red John continues to murder people and no one really seems to care.
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#7027

gazebogrl

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 12:27 PM

The conversation Jane had with that little girl in the cemetary must be alot more interesting than we thought. She obviously told Patrick some secret conveyed to her by Red John and Jane went really darkside. Patrick Jane manipulated everyone from the beginning. I think the only honest conversation he had was with Lisbon at the beginning when he told her that Red John was not appearing or doing much of anything because Jane was avidly searching for him.

But you know, I think Jane went deliberately darkside because he wanted to leave the CBI. I think he wanted to be fired in a very public way so as to alert Red John. I bet Jane really enjoyed knocking that guy out and locking him in the coffin all night long. Jane deliberately insulted Lisbon's superior so he'd definitely get fired.

Now, Patrick Jane will be able to lure Red John out of hiding and back into his life again.

Anyway, that's what I think is going on in Jane's mind. Just my opinion.
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#7028

Navona

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 2:46 PM

I hate this trend of these personal stories of people in the crime fighting business - I just find it tiresome and I just don't care. This has gone on way too long for me; lots of fast forwarding. But, really, a young girl out there wandering about in a cemetery, clearly having talked to one strange guy and then going up to another strange guy (Jane) - her parents need to have a talk with her....
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#7029

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 5:31 PM

I do agree with Princess Lucky that Jane wanted Wainwright to fire him. He made sure to look at Wainwright when he woke from his nap and purposely pushed him to make him fire him. Wainwright thought he was nuts before anyways. The question is whether jane did this because he's trying to beat RJ at his game or because he thinks Wainwright is in league with RJ.


ITA. I'm just disappointed that they made it so obvious. Jane has always been a bit off, so having him go on an emotional downward spiral could be believable. Yet the writing and acting would be hard to interpret as anything other than a long con on Jane's part. I mean, just in case we didn't get it, they threw in gratuitous insulting of Wainwright, an action whose purpose could only be to get Jane fired. I guess we are left to guess who else is in on the con (my guess is nobody -- not Lisbon and definitely not Marks, the guy he burried alive) and whether Jane has any other targets for it besides Red John, such as perhaps testing whether Wainwright is dirty.
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#7030

shriekingeel

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 6:27 PM

Mightyhoolez, that's my biggest problem with this show: the smallminded avoidance of continuity. It shows so much contempt for the show's viewers.

Last week's Cho line to Van Pelt ("You're giving ME dating advice?") stuck out, because it was a reference to her infamous murderer boyfriends. But we almost never get any continuity in the show, unless it's either RJ-related or it involves a popular guest star who recurs like Malcolm McDowell or Morena Baccarin.
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#7031

luculent

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 6:33 PM

To enjoy this show I had to suspend belief a long time ago, eg, Which law enforcement body would put up with one of its Senior Agents throwing a chair through a window and publicly screaming at her boss like a hysterical banshee, even if it was a ploy to catch a murdering shrink? (Ep203)
So I just go with the flow, enjoy the show for what it is, and often rationalise. For instance, an argument could be made that Red John lured the girl away from her class by hypnosis. Jane 'neutralised' that and caused her to forget, with his own hypnosis, apparently using his famous 'look at the coin' trick again.

*I enjoyed the scenes with the little girl. When she asked the question, "Do you give up yet?" Agh. There's the game. Chilling.

*Why does Jane look 'older' than Simon Baker. Maybe it's to accompany his 'gawn nuts' profile. Lisbon though, for mine, is looking good these days.

*Is Lisbon's first name pronounced Ter-eesa or Ter-aysa? I wish the writers would decide and tell Simon. We're four seasons in already.

*The scene where Jane makes his pilgrimage to the restaurant to honour his wife and child, is both sad and seemingly off-kilter. Creepy that he appears to be drinking bloody marys. Of all the drinks.

As for this ep I loved it, although it left me rattled. I think it's all about the name, (red rover, red rover), and the game.
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#7032

jane08

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 9:12 PM

I actually like the RJ storyline. Without it, The Mentalist is just a silly procedural, and TV has enough of those already. RJ adds a darker element to the show, and it's interesting. I think my problem with it is that it's so unevenly employed. You can go 5-6 episodes with no mention of it, and then it pops up again somewhat randomly.

I enjoyed watching Jane become unhinged in this episode, even if he was faking it. Looking forward to seeing what's going to happen next week, but our local network didn't show the preview so it will all be a surprise, I guess.
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#7033

Princess Lucky

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 9:47 PM

*Is Lisbon's first name pronounced Ter-eesa or Ter-aysa? I wish the writers would decide and tell Simon. We're four seasons in already.

Ha! I've always had a problem with that, as far as I can recall everyone calls her Te-reesa (Mashburn, Bosco etc. By the way I missed Mashburn this season!). And I also think either her brother (played by Henry Thomas) or her niece called her (aunt) 'Reese' as a nickname, obviously from "Te-reesa". But Simon Baker always pronounces it Ter-aysa. It takes me out of the scene sometimes. And it doesn't make sense because Jane is supposed to be American so it's not an accent issue. Hm.

I actually like the RJ storyline. Without it, The Mentalist is just a silly procedural, and TV has enough of those already. RJ adds a darker element to the show, and it's interesting. I think my problem with it is that it's so unevenly employed. You can go 5-6 episodes with no mention of it, and then it pops up again somewhat randomly.

I agree and disagree at the same time, heh. I agree that RJ is the "twist" of The Mentalist and otherwise it's just a random procedural. But as you said, with the way RJ is handled, The Mentalist basically is just a random procedural, save for those 5-6 episodes per season when the writers remember there's an ongoing storyline. I get that for syndication purposes TPTB often ask showrunners to keep episodes totally self-contained and miminise the serialised aspect of their shows. But still, there are ways to maintain some continuity, either with throw-away lines or with subtle character reactions etc. The writers need to work on that a little more, in my opinion.

Edited by Princess Lucky, May 11, 2012 @ 9:48 PM.

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#7034

Prevailing Wind

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 10:02 PM

I wonder if whomever it is that titles the episodes has gotten weary of coming up with 'red' titles. It's an amusing conceit, but, holy cow, they're stuck with it, going into 5 seasons. Did they have any idea what kind of corner they'd be painting themselves into?
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#7035

crowsworks

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 12:36 AM

I (guess) that Wainwright is after RJ too. Maybe as a cop of maybe he has reasons of his own. I think he and Jane are working together to get Jane inside RJ's inner circle. Convince RJ that Jane is really nutz. If they shoot someone - they'll be in on it. Of course Patrick thinks he can handle RJ's mind games but he's more fragile than he admits.

I still think it's Itzin (bitter about 24) but Malcolm McD probably will take the 'prize'.
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#7036

FrogsRule

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 2:05 AM

As for this ep I loved it, although it left me rattled. I think it's all about the name, (red rover, red rover), and the game.


luculent, but which version of Red Rover, that's the question... Fleetwood Mac or the simple children's rhyming game? Or both? (See my post #7020 above.)
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#7037

luculent

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 5:50 AM

FrogsRule I was talking of the children's game. The rules of this game are the same as the adage - if you can't beat them, (you have to) join them. And Jane has been incapable of beating Red John up till now.

Red rover, red rover is also a game of teams, and I'm interested to see the outworking of that.

I was referring as well to the other 'game' - the 'bigger picture' - where, for me, manipulation is 'afoot' and long cons are being run.

The songs you mentioned are interesting though and the lyrics are uncannily accurate. "And we'll continue to keep playing the games that we play" ~ Scene Aesthetic.
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#7038

starwolf

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 12:34 PM

After all this time, it seems all Jane really knows about Red John is his ability to charm/influence other killers into helping him out. He didn't know that at the start of the series, and only found out about it at the end of season one.

Jane giving up on Red John puzzled me. Was he saying "If I stop chasing him, maybe someone else will catch him"? Jane got very possessive about Red John, especially in the first two seasons. Jane deciding "I don't have to be the one who catches/kills Red John" shows a certain element of maturity. Then again, every time someone else gets close to finding Red John, Red John kills them.

Most likely, this was Jane trying to fool Lisbon and Wainwright. With Wainwright, it worked. With Lisbon, she obviously cares about Jane beyond cop/consultant. Not too far beyond that, though.

Off topic: I find it interesting that Jane has a standing reservation at a restaurant, where the staff is familiar with him, his preferred table, and his order. Is it monthly reservation? Yearly? I doubt Jane gets hammered on Bloody Marys once a month. *Maybe* once a year. More likely, once a month Jane to that restaurant and that table and has one Bloody Mary and a specific dish. This time he just had the Bloody Marys.
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#7039

ImSoDizzy

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 4:53 PM

FrogsRule, you're right. The episode name is interesting.
I think it's likely a nod to the children's game: Once your name is called you have no choice but to RUN!

I also am wondering why Patrick chooses to drink bloody marys on the anniversary of his family’s death.
I myself can only drink one, then need to switch to something that isn’t so … seasoned – more mellow.
If I got drunk on bloody mary's, I would have more problems than just a headache the next day.

I just hope the reign of Red John ends soon. … Not sure what I want from next week, as the real resolution would supposedly end the series.

I agree - enough of Red John already. I don’t think it would have to end the series, but it would require a more evolved Jane.
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#7040

FrogsRule

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

But remember the Santa show, where Patrick Jane did the alcohol "rehab" thing and drank far more than a normal human being could, without passing out. For some reason, alcohol tolerance is part of his canon.

The main reasons I think the Fleetwood Mac song may be behind the title: 1) It incorporates the children's game; 2) It distorts the children's game (the "Red Rover" refrain goes, "Red rover, red rover, we come to take you over"; 3) The eerie murder reference combined with "you don't belong here".

I have to believe that if this were a real-life character, Patrick Jane would feel (more often than not) that he was living in a bizarre alternate universe. Police work is polar opposite of the carnie and fake-psychic lifestyle. Although it gives him a chance to hunt down his wife's (and daughter's) killer, he now associates with people who would have been his marks, those who are buttoned-up and straight-laced, the kind of people he would have made fun of in his previous life.

Therefore that Fleetwood Mac song (with its sense of alienation) really seems appropriate for Patrick Jane.

ITA that they could catch Red John without ending the series (writers and showrunners, please read this thread!, heh). Red John and the anguish he caused Patrick Jane will always be part of Jane's life.

Frankly, I would love to see RJ caught, and then the series focus on how Patrick Jane deals with the harder choices of: Staying with CBI versus return to his old life; Lisbon versus "shallow chicks"; growing up and forgiving versus hanging onto his grudge against RJ; learning to trust versus seeing a RJ accomplice behind every face.

There is so much material to mine in a post-RJ world, it would actually make the show better.

Edited because the abbreviation for Red John would be RJ, not RD. ;-)

Edited by FrogsRule, May 12, 2012 @ 5:58 PM.

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#7041

Green Eyez

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 7:25 PM

FrogsruleI have a feeling if we lived close, we'd be watching TV together a lot. We seem to have the same schedule.

My feeling is that Jane follows the same routine every year. That's how RJ found him at the cemetery. It figures that RJ would also be lurking nearby at the restaurant, watching our beloved moppet sucking down those bloody marys.

Jane very deliberately looked in the boss's direction before going into his spiel to Lisbon, and I began to wonder what he would have said if it was just the two of them alone.

Jane does not lose control. Even when he shot a man, he sat back down and drank his tea, calmly waiting for the police to arrive. So, what? THIS is the year he finally cracks? Loses control? Stops thinking clearly? Because RJ taunted him for the 5,392,892 time? I don't buy it. I 100% believe it's a total act.

He SHOT A DEFENSELESS MAN. In order to get a confession, and he buried another man alive, such was his strong sense of justice. His sense of right and wrong.

He hasn't given up.

Now, as for where they're going to take this, I think "shooting a defenseless man" showed us the summit of the lengths Jane will go to. So what now? They can't go backward, as someone else pointed out.

The possibilities are quite limited at this point. I am curious to see what they'll do.
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#7042

FrogsRule

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 9:51 PM

Green Eyez, that would be fun. ;-)

Reading your post about RJ knowing Patrick's schedule made me wonder something else, actually two something elses.

First, wouldn't this be the kind of case that the FBI's BAU would be most helpful in solving? I would love to see Patrick Jane take on Spencer Reid.

Second, for RJ to know all this kind of stuff, he must be: Obsessive; Retired or otherwise unemployed; and, bland enough to blend in with the scenery (or part of the scenery).

As I write this, I am actually surprised that they haven't tried to do some sort of profiling about the type person they are looking for.
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#7043

MightyHoolez

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 11:32 PM

Frogs, that's another reason why this show never rises above a certain level of quality. They never show a single thing being done to track RJ, no progress reports, no mention, much less profiling or other common sense elements. The show makes it seem that Jane, who has no investigtive skills, is the only one who can get RJ. Everybody knows that RJ is obsessed with Jane, but no one suggests decoy operations or schemes using Jane as bait, etc. It wastes the genuinely interesting RJ premise and keeps the show average.
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#7044

FrogsRule

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 1:39 AM

MightyHoolez, I agree. The more I think about it (which is not all that often, just when I read this thread) the more I think that the show will improve after they've caught RJ. It's so not a show-ender.

I don't think Patrick Jane could ever be an all-out detective, but I hope that part of Lisbon's tough love next season involves teaching him process. Both show and the character of Jane (along with the team interactions) would benefit from that.

It's kind of like my longstanding annoyance with mactors who go on reality TV shows and expect to be "discovered" and become the next George Clooney or Allison Janney. They don't seem to comprehend that what those actors do is hard work, and requires training.

Take that same concept and apply it to Mentalist, where Jane's powers of observation remain highly valued, but he learns why "his" team does what they do, and we'll have growth. And a better show.
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#7045

Green Eyez

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 2:12 AM

First, wouldn't this be the kind of case that the FBI's BAU would be most helpful in solving? I would love to see Patrick Jane take on Spencer Reid.


Crossover! The War of the HAIR! HAHAHAHAHAHA.

(yet another show we have in common.)

But this would definitely require Profilers.

And I didn't take Lisbon's offer to "fix things" as about his job as much as his mental health. She does care about him. Lisbon is a fixer. That's what she does. Isn't there crap like this in her family? Wasn't it dysfunctional as hell? Am I remembering that right? I think it's very in-character for her to want to make Jane better.

But what if Jane is playing her and she finds out? What happens to the trust they've established?

I don't know if they can let go of the RJ thing, since that's the show's foundation. If Jane gets his justice and he becomes "well" for lack of a better word, what happens? It would be interesting if the show improves, but I don't think they'll go there.

Every time they have one of these "there's a serial killer who has a hard-on for the main character" things, they don't kill him off until the last episode or that person leaves the show. It was a running theme, oddly enough, on "Profiler" where they did not end the storyline until the main character left the show. He was revealed after 4 seasons.
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#7046

vellma

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 3:51 AM

My dvr died today and I lost the latest episode 4.23, "Red Rover, Red Rover". Unfortunately, The Mentalist is one of the few shows not available for streaming or on itunes. Does anyone still have it and is willing to make a copy? I can paypal for shipping and cost of the dvd. PM me if so, I would really appreciate the help. It sucks too because I actually started watching it on Thursday, but then I accidentally broke a bottle of cooking wine and it took forever to clean it so I ended up recording it for later.

Edited by vellma, May 13, 2012 @ 3:52 AM.

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#7047

sugarmonkey

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 7:49 AM

*SPOILER ALERT* sort of. I'm just guessing based on what the previews for next weeks ep showed along with the description of it on my satellite schedule. Jane doesn't catch RJ, so he gets a lover and "shoots one of his own." the preview showed Jane and Lisbon in her office and a gun shot but then Grace was crying over someone in an ally. I really hope the lover is not another slut and/or conwoman. It doesn't speak well to Jane's character that the women he gets an interest in are easy and/or dishonest. The only one I liked was Kristina Fry.

I'll tune in for the next season premier but based on that l'm picking and choosing eps next season. I watch because Simon Baker is one of the best actors out there, but I guess I'm just bored. And that makes me sad. But I won't give up just yet!
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#7048

RollTheHardSix

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 1:11 PM

Just watched this weeks episode but I haven't read any spoilers so I don't get...you know, spoiled ;-)

No way, he's really giving up. I think he wants to give Red John what he wants to see no matter the cost.

(I thought he'd go to jail right along with the guy he put in the coffin, but it's Jane so of course he didn't).

I like the Mentalist and I like Jane. Now I just wish they would do away with all the boring filler episodes and finally go for the complete story arc but I know it'll never happen. And I agree with the people who think that most likely nothing lasting is going to come out of this season's RJ finale. I'm only watching for those episodes and forcing myself to watch the boring procedural episodes in between ... maybe I will look at spoilers from now on and only watch if I know Red John will make an appearance.

It feels like I've been watching forever and ever and nothing much has actually happened.
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#7049

giubbo

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 10:10 AM

Oh, i feel somthing really bad is going to happen, Jane is not only going to give up, he is going to join the RJ team.
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#7050

Calvada

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 1:29 PM

I feel that will be the cliffhanger - Jane goes to the dark side! Or does he??

I think it will all be a ruse, designed to draw out Red John. I'm sure in the first episode or two of the next season, this will be revealed, they will discover another RJ minion/mole in the CBI (probably Wainwright), but RJ will once again evade capture. By episode 3, Jane will be back at the CBI, lightheartedly solving crimes, at least until November sweeps.

I had to laugh at the little girl telling Lisbon she liked her hair. Take a hint, Theresa, when the 7 year old likes your hair, it's time to re-think the long flowing locks and perhaps appear more professional. At least she doesn't wear lowcut blouses or 4-inch heels, like some characters on other shows.
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