157 replies to this topic

[TWoP Barnes]

Okay, so do you think there was a Jesse=F1 edit and it was just subtle, or was something else going on behind the scenes. Got conspiracy theories? This is the place to let 'em fly.

[PittsburghDiva]

Between Zapruder-ing the screen shots and readng the various spoilers and articles, I didn't know what to think. Based on the lukewarm proposal, I think Jesse was salvaged to be the F1 once Graham was tired of the reindeer games. Jesse and DeAnna sold out their souls for fame and fortune- DeAnna is trying to be Trista v.2 and Jesse realizes his snowboarding days are coming to an end.

Edited by PittsburghDiva, Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:21 PM.

[lulee]

Yeah, I don't know that I buy the talk on other boards about reshoots and rampant photoshopping, but I can believe Jesse, who said something along the lines about going on the show to further his career, would be game for being the fall-back guy and getting the (short-term) media exposure it offers. Between her actions and comments to Graham when booting him, I find it hard to believe he wasn't the one she was after and there was some major Plan-B'ing when he, I believe, asked to leave.

The evil editors aren't above manipulating things (e.g., trying to make it look like Jeremy actually flew back to the Bahamas to confront her).

[Vexer]

I just don't know. Where was that big ol' smackeroo on the lips between DeAnna and Jason that we saw the screencaps of? She was beaming at him and kissing him in a very romantic, loving way. We saw her turn her head and give him the cheek on the show.

[ms_ladybug]

I just don't know. Where was that big ol' smackeroo on the lips between DeAnna and Jason that we saw the screencaps of? She was beaming at him and kissing him in a very romantic, loving way. We saw her turn her head and give him the cheek on the show.

Thank you, Vexer! Took the words right out of my mouth. So... did she pick him first and they re-shot the Jesse F1? Seems like TPTB doesn't have that much money in the production budget, since the last 3 eps/dates all took place in the exact same hotel!

[aminca]

Not to mention those damn pink flowers that kept disappearing/reappearing during the FRC. It's like the florist didn't have any more for the re-shoot.

[Moche]

This also may clear up the speculation as to why Jesse was allowed to sport his sponsors and his brand logos during the show. No one could understand how or why? Since he was the winner, I guess they want him to be as popular as they can make him and gave him that leeway when they went back to edit the show for production.

Also, what about the girlfriend Megan who was dumped via text during the hometown dates?

The whole thing, watching them, just doesn't quite ring true. I don't buy Jesse at all.

[jopatura]

I always believed Jesse was a producer pick from day 1. Previous experience in TV, a more "high profile" career then most of the 25, and the wearing of logos and sponserships.

I think he had an agreement with Deanna and was supposed to leave after the hometown dates (which is why he held out on kissing her for so long -- it was for shows anyways). But when Graham began going so foofy, remember we don't know the "true" order of the dates, the plans changed.

She didn't love anyone, but couldn't back out because of her pride. So she finangled it with him and the producers that they'd pick each other, make the publicity tours for a few months, do the winter game circuits (like someone said in the other thread) and break off shortly before the wedding because of something Jesse does (probably "cheats") and they'll both be richer, she'll be the scorned America's Sweetheart (twice!) and instead of the wedding, she'll have some weepy tell-all special where they'll pay Graham millions to sweep her off her feet.

[oakgal]

aminca, the disappearing and reappearing pink flowers were doing my head in. One moment they are behind them, the next they are gone. Then they return. Then I spot them somewhere, I think, and they disappear again. What the heck?

It all felt very false to me. Jesse looked uncomfortable and I swear he was reading lines. I don't buy it.

[albertjoseph]

This also may clear up the speculation as to why Jesse was allowed to sport his sponsors and his brand logos during the show.

This reminded me of something I found strange this season (hopefully this is an appropriate thread).

It seemed like alot of the places/activities that they used this season had their names either redacted or blurred out.

1) During the Downtown L.A. rooftop date with the guy she dumped in the carriage, they conspicuously (imo) refrained from mentioning the name of the building (instead, iirc, referring to it as a "famous building downtown").

2) During the Bahama date with Jason, the names/logos on both the dune buggies and the kayaks were blurred out.

It would seem that this "promotional consideration" would be part of the bargain. Was there a reason that these vendors didn't want their names associated with this show/season?

[backformore]

Anybody know how to email Jimmy Kimmel? The disappearing/reappearing flowers is just the kind of thing he would LOVE to put on his show. It was so blatant during the proposal scenes.
There was something weird going on. Definitely some scenes were re-shot, but WHY? And why did some of those scenes look like scenes from a soap opera?

[alta000]

I think he had an agreement with Deanna and was supposed to leave after the hometown dates (which is why he held out on kissing her for so long -- it was for shows anyways). But when Graham began going so foofy, remember we don't know the "true" order of the dates, the plans changed.

At FORT, I remember reading the first HTD was Graham.

[YourMom]

I'm not a hardcore conspiracy fanatic on the flowers. I.e., I don't believe the more involved theories that she picked Jason, then broke up with him, then had them re-shoot the FRC with her picking Jesse this time. But it is obvious that they were manipulating and re-shooting as things went on in order to get the story and shots they wanted. Just like they manipulated it so that Graham's HTD seemed like the last one and not the first (if that was true).

I should have enjoyed this season since it ended with her picking the guy I liked, but I so don't get this season and I can't only chalk that up to my dislike of DeAnna. The whole point of reality TV show editing is to create uncertainty. If people feel they know exactly what's coming, they won't watch. You have to make them feel like they don't know what's going to happen next, and therefore they must watch to find out. But you also have to show enough to give subsequent events proper foundation, so that people don't feel they were just happening arbitrarily and randomly.

With most reality TV shows, you can sacrifice some of the latter to preserve the former. Heck, I along with many others still have no idea how Richard Hatch won the first Survivor despite being a naked, insufferable douchebag, but that's still looked upon as one of the "better" reality TV endings/surprises of all time--and I would agree and I can't stand Richard. But with The Bach and The B'ette, you can't do that. This is people falling in love. If you edit out everything that might give away the love story, then people feel cheated.

I think that Trista and Ryan's season was probably the best edited season. You could honestly see them falling for each other and why they fell for each other, but up until the end it still seemed like Charlie had a reasonable shot. And even amongst the lesser seasons that have followed, there have been some good editing jobs. I think that Lt. Asshat's season was well edited, much as I loathe that tool and as much as the season as a whole was somewhat lackluster. I felt like I saw him falling for Tessa, but I still felt suspense until the end. Perhaps that was because Lt. Asshat was leading all those women on to a degree that was egregious even for a show whose entire premise rests on leading people on. But I digress.

The thing that kills me about the editing job this season (and what I think gives rise to the conspiracy theories) is that I honestly felt like we were getting that dual love story/suspense edit--but for Jason! It wasn't just like they failed to edit Jesse as a contender. But when she gave that stupid star gift for Ty, I had the same "OK, cancel the season" feeling that I had when we saw other famous (or infamous) TB couples connect, even though the best seasons still managed to generate suspense. Even with Graham still in the picture, I felt that way. And subsequent events seemed to confirm that Jason was The One.

As I said in the ep thread, there was a great story here: girl looking for New Brad unexpectedly falls for Anti-Brad. Looking back at the first episode thread, most of us pegged Jason, Graham, Jeremy and Richard as the F4 immediately. And we were 3/4 right. So obviously there was something there. And the one we were wrong about--Richard--filled the Anti-Brad role that Jesse wound up filling. Both do not have the more sophisticated nature of the other three (Richard because he's a dork, Jesse because he's the "free spirit" snowboarder). Both don't have the money-making, prestige careers, but instead do something for the love of it, or so they profess. The ingredients for the story were right there, and early in the season it seemed like we were being led that way. And since so many of the men picked Jesse at the MTA, including the last two eliminees, there was something noticeable between the two of them. So WHERE THE FUCK was that on my TV?

Here's what I want. It's common for reality shows to host a mid-season or end-of-season "what you didn't see" clips show, where they air previously unshown footage that they claim will give new insight, though it rarely does. After the season finale, but before ATFR, I want to see a "The Bachelor(ette): What You Didn't See" special, where they show us all the stuff edited out because it would've made the ending too obvious. Basically, I want them to take an hour and tells us a condensed version of the story they would've told if they didn't have to also maintain suspense. I want to see what really happened with our happy (ha!) couple.

[backformore]

I'm not a hardcore conspiracy fanatic on the flowers. I.e., I don't believe the more involved theories that she picked Jason, then broke up with him, then had them re-shoot the FRC with her picking Jesse this time. But it is obvious that they were manipulating and re-shooting as things went on in order to get the story and shots they wanted. Just like they manipulated it so that Graham's HTD seemed like the last one and not the first (if that was true).

Yeah, I'm not convinced that the flower thing indicates that the ending was changed. It just poses questions - because if they just re-shot the scenes the same day - the flowers would match. To me, it indicates that scenes were re-shot at a later date.

and, of course, it could be something simple like a storm blew in, or the waves were so loud the sound was goofed up. But something is not quite "right" about it.

[albertjoseph]

I can't quite buy Flowergate either.

First, just because a scene or incident was re-shot doesn't mean the substance of it was changed. It could've just been re-enacted.

Second, if the show would go through the effort to re-do the ending, and especially knowing how people scrutinize the previews, etc, I'd think that they'd have someone assigned to continuity to make sure everything matches up. I can't believe they'd actually allow different color flowers in the shot unless they re-shoots just weren't that big of a deal to them.

I do agree with Yourmom's suggestion about an "previously unaired" show that focuses on the footage of the actual final couple.

[horsefeathers]

I doubt that the changing flowers thing indicates re-shooting the final scene at a later date. The backgrounds on the sets have changed in previous seasons too. I'm not sure if it's because they shoot the things so many times that things get moved around or if it's because the producers are trying to prevent sleuths from figuring out the ending by looking at screen caps of the previews -- like we did in the Meredith season.

Edited by horsefeathers, Jul 8, 2008 @ 10:48 AM.

[Squeezer]

I agree there's probably a rational explanation for the flowers. I rewatched the ending this morning and the flowers flipped colors in both Jason's and Jesse's moment at the podium.

[PRgal]

This reminded me of something I found strange this season (hopefully this is an appropriate thread).

It seemed like alot of the places/activities that they used this season had their names either redacted or blurred out.

1) During the Downtown L.A. rooftop date with the guy she dumped in the carriage, they conspicuously (imo) refrained from mentioning the name of the building (instead, iirc, referring to it as a "famous building downtown").

2) During the Bahama date with Jason, the names/logos on both the dune buggies and the kayaks were blurred out.

It would seem that this "promotional consideration" would be part of the bargain. Was there a reason that these vendors didn't want their names associated with this show/season?

But I'm not sure if companies would want to be associated with a show like the Bachelor/ette to begin with.

[PinkLadyK]

My husband and I rewound about 600 times to figure out the flower thing. In one of the shots from farther back (I think when the guys are walking up to the "stage"), you can actually see the pair of white flower/bush/tree things that are on the stage (in back), and another pair of tall flower/bush/tree things to the left of where the stage is, and they look like they have pink flowers on them. I think when you are seeing the pink flowers in the background, those are camera shots that are at a very steep angle, so that it appears that the pink flowers are directly behind the stage, when in actuality, the camera is almost to the side of the stage and is catching the pink flowers that are on the other side of the stage.

Does that make sense?

[Squeezer]

Yup PinkLady it does. I did the same thing (though you beat me with 600 rewinds ha!) and I caught those flowers on the side and thought that could be the exlanation. They just sometimes seemed so close I questioned myself. I'm glad you picked up on it too.

[Diana Berry]

I'm not sure if FORT has latched onto this .

Can you guys comment on this.

I rewound my tape of her and Jason at the podium several times. It looks very edited. My take is that Jason actually proposed not just got down on bended knee but actually asked. He gets down on his knee and the facial shots change. Then when DeAnna says something like "I can't do this (or whatever she said)...it sounded dubbed. Also, you never see her face when she says it.

So I'm going with he actually proposed but they edited it out. I have no idea of her answer just that he proposed.

Maybe this references the two hour delay for the ATFR show. If Jason did propose and they just show the knee drop..he can only say "why did you let me get down on one knee" instead of his real question..why did you let me propose...why didn't you stop me at the beginning. I'm sure him and the family members were coached on what to say at the show and Not to mention any actual proposal.

Just my theory. Maybe you guys can watch that part and let me know what you think.

[albertjoseph]

It looked to me like she actually tried to stop him when he was on the way down to kneeling. But I was pretty tired by that point so I wasn't paying much attention.

I do think the whole "why did you make me get down on my knee" was a pretty weak complaint. It's not like he was kneeling on rice or anything.

If she actually let it go further but they edited that out, Jason's complaint (albeit tailored to fit the scene we were actually shown) would make alot more sense to me.

[chaserla]

It looked to me like she actually tried to stop him when he was on the way down to kneeling. But I was pretty tired by that point so I wasn't paying much attention.

I do think the whole "why did you make me get down on my knee" was a pretty weak complaint. It's not like he was kneeling on rice or anything.

If she actually let it go further but they edited that out, Jason's complaint (albeit tailored to fit the scene we were actually shown) would make alot more sense to me.

But Jason didn't ask "why did you make me get down on my knee" he asked "why did you let me propose?" Jason's reaction in the winner's limo was one of hurt and embarrasment that she would let him go thru with a proposal that DeAnna knew she would turn down.

Confirmation from FORT:

Originally Posted by babyfaceC
He definitely went through with the proposal. Its not my opinion... Its what I was told by a very reliable source

BabyfaceC

[seb]

Yeah, he said multiple times, Why did you let me propose? I immediately assumed they'd edited out the actual proposal. He was composed and well-spoken; no way he said propose when he merely meant get down on his knee.

[KerleyQ]

It looked to me like she actually tried to stop him when he was on the way down to kneeling. But I was pretty tired by that point so I wasn't paying much attention.

I don't think she stopped him on his way down. The way they edited it, it looked like she didn't stop him until after he was down on one knee, and when they showed the side view, it looked to me like he had the ring box in his hand while he was still down there, looking at her like he couldn't quite believe she was telling him it wasn't happening. So I don't have a hard time believing that there was some editing trickery going on there, where they cut out some of it, it not a proposal, at least her not stopping him before he had enough time to get the ring box out of his pocket after getting down there on his knee. I'd bet there was a decent chunk that got cut out of there. Again, as I complained on the finale episode, though, why the hell wasn't DeAnna saying anything to these guys when they got there? Doesn't the B/B'ette usually SAY something to the F2/F1 when they get there to bridge to the rejection/proposal? With both Jason and Jesse, she just kind of stood there grinning at them until they dropped down to a knee and proposed. And, did they edit her reaction to Jason approaching when he arrived, too? Because when he was walking with Chris from his limo to her, she was beaming, like she was just fantastically happy. Who looks like that when the guy whose heart they're about to break is coming in for the rejection? That's the face she should have been sporting when Jesse was approaching. I'm really wondering if they switched the tape there and that was DeAnna when Jesse was approaching, but they threw it in there with Jason approaching to leave people hanging in for a few more moments, wondering if maybe Jason was still going to "win" and they just switched up the limo arrivals this time.

[SparksFan59]

There were rumors very early on that Jason was F1 and they broke up. The tampered screen caps and the pink and white revolving flowers in the FRC edit clearly showed that they were edited from two separate FRC's.

There is also insider info that Jesse was called back as F1, he agreed of course since he intially went on the show for media attention. It was also stated by Brad Womack's friend, babyfaceC on FORT, that DeDe told Jeremy {who went to school with babyfaceC} that she talked of wanting a Hollywood career and hoped to have a talk show one day.

My take, she picked Jason, tampered screen caps show doctored left hand on DeDe and edited out boutonniere for Jason, and the kiss w/pink flowers was from the first FRC. The second with Jesse as F1 was with the white flowers. There were also differences with the limos too.

It wasn't well hidden, and this also explains Dede's crappy edit. She pulled a Jen by bailing out on Jason, who was the single father looking for love, so Fleiss retaliated as he only knows how. By making her look worse than Jen did on her season. Of course, that wasn't hard to do.

That's my theory, and I'm stickin' to it.

[pickledeedee]

From our local paper in Seattle:

On what TV viewers may have missed:

The whole (marriage) proposal. The show made it look like I got down on my knee and she brought me right back up. I talked to her for a while down there. It was a lot longer of a process. I felt disrespected (by DeAnna). That is something I would never do to anybody. I wish they showed more of that moment.

Here's the interview with Jason in the Seattle P.I. paper today

[WholahayBrown]

Again, as I complained on the finale episode, though, why the hell wasn't DeAnna saying anything to these guys when they got there? Doesn't the B/B'ette usually SAY something to the F2/F1 when they get there to bridge to the rejection/proposal? With both Jason and Jesse, she just kind of stood there grinning at them until they dropped down to a knee and proposed.

I've only seen Trista's and Jen's finales and only the one time each, but from what I remember of Trista's, she had a little speech prepared for both Charlie and Ryan. After she told Ryan that she loved him and chose him, he proposed. (Damn that was romantic).

Jen's fiasco of a finale was much the same as DeAnna's, in that it wasn't framed as "Who will she choose? And will he propose?!" so much as "America's sweetheart will receive TWO proposals of marriage! Which one will be graced with a YES?" Much like Jen, DeAnna's finale --and entire season-- was about kissing DeAnna's ass first and foremost and less about the (barf) "journey".

[Squeezer]

There were rumors very early on that Jason was F1 and they broke up. The tampered screen caps and the pink and white revolving flowers in the FRC edit clearly showed that they were edited from two separate FRC's.

There is also insider info that Jesse was called back as F1, he agreed of course since he intially went on the show for media attention. It was also stated by Brad Womack's friend, babyfaceC on FORT, that DeDe told Jeremy {who went to school with babyfaceC} that she talked of wanting a Hollywood career and hoped to have a talk show one day.

My take, she picked Jason, tampered screen caps show doctored left hand on DeDe and edited out boutonniere for Jason, and the kiss w/pink flowers was from the first FRC. The second with Jesse as F1 was with the white flowers. There were also differences with the limos too.

It wasn't well hidden, and this also explains Dede's crappy edit. She pulled a Jen by bailing out on Jason, who was the single father looking for love, so Fleiss retaliated as he only knows how. By making her look worse than Jen did on her season. Of course, that wasn't hard to do.

That's my theory, and I'm stickin' to it.

I kind of thought that could be a possiblity up until the finale and ATFR aired. Jason looked so distraught at the podium when she rejected him and in the limo. If it was reshot he would have had to act out all that. Watching Jason during the ATFR confirmed for me that he really was rejected. He was obviously still very heartbroken. Also, DeAnna was genuinely uncomfortable seeing him again because she was responsible for hurting him. The passionate exchange where she assures him Graham isn't half the man he or Jesse are and Jason's gut wrenching expressions all indicate he was never chosen. I don't think either of them are that good at acting to pull that off.

Plus, the interview pickledeedee provided (thanks!) was very interesting and further debunks that FORT theory of a second proposal. I won't say the scenes at the podium weren't reshot, but I think the outcome never changed.

Edited by Squeezer, Jul 9, 2008 @ 8:46 AM.

[albertjoseph]

There were rumors very early on that Jason was F1 and they broke up. The tampered screen caps and the pink and white revolving flowers in the FRC edit clearly showed that they were edited from two separate FRC's.

I re-watched the FRC last night, and I concur 100% with PinkLady.

There is a wide establishing shot where you can see the two pink-flowered trees/bushes way off to the left (the side that Jason was on). The shot in which they appear conspicuously behind Jason was shot from right, i.e. from behind Deanna and over her shoulder.

From the establishing shots, I assume the camera that shot that (pink flower) shot was way off to the right and had to really zoom in to get a close-up. If you've ever used a telephoto lens you know that the more you zoom in the more the depth-of-field gets compressed.

I agree that this is what happened here. The degree of zoom on that camera made it appear that the pink flower trees/bushes were right behind Jason when in fact they were many yards away.

I also looked for any evidence of any differences in the shots (i.e. Jason's hair, tie knot, etc.) and they all looked identical to my eye.

-------------

I was going to (gulp) defend Deanna for remaining silent by saying that the Producers may have instructed her to let the Bachelor go first. But if that interview with Jason is correct, then she's as bad as I always thought. Which is oddly comforting to me.