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#361

loriltx

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Posted Oct 12, 2008 @ 6:32 PM

Seeing the ATF guy with Abel and Jax saying the guy is following him (I got the impression this all happened in one day) is the exact reason why she is asking Jax to take her home--so that she can tell him about the ATF guy.

#362

redrobin27

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Posted Oct 12, 2008 @ 7:34 PM

Seeing the ATF guy with Abel and Jax saying the guy is following him (I got the impression this all happened in one day) is the exact reason why she is asking Jax to take her home--so that she can tell him about the ATF guy.

Really? There was little in the scene to give me that impression. I assumed she asked Jax to take her home because she's freaked out by Stalker ATF Guy (didn't he demand that they meet?). I don't understand the difference between telling Jax in the hospital and telling him at her house. If she wanted privacy, surely they could have found an empty room (nay, a janitor's closet?) to talk.

And to sunshine's point, she already knew he was there investigating SoA - why didn't she give Jax a heads up before it got to the point of Jax's child being threatened?

#363

loriltx

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Posted Oct 12, 2008 @ 9:17 PM

You're definitely right that she should have told Jax earlier. I don't remember the ATF guy demanding that they meet.He did tell her to be at the club in 45 minutes if she wanted to "see the baby's future and maybe hers." I took that to mean the baby's father and the guy she cares about arrested. I guess my impression of the scene in the hospital is based on the look on her face when Jax was saying about the crazy ATF guy following him. It was like, "holy shit, this is getting out of hand." Like she needed to tell him what was going on before something bad happened to him because of the psycho. I think this might have been the first time she realized that the ATF guy was not here on a case--he was here because of her and was going to hurt anyone that he perceived to be in his way. Who knows--anything could happen, but definitely based on next weeks previews, Jax finds out that the ATF guy is stalking Tara.

#364

sunshine2288

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Posted Oct 12, 2008 @ 9:29 PM

I thought perhaps Tara getting a ride from Jax was about showing the ATF guy she wasn't going to be manipulated by him. Or maybe she was just scared and needed Jax, or she could have been ready to tell him the truth about the ATF guy.

Who knows at this point, there's a lot of possibilities.

she already knew he was there investigating SoA - why didn't she give Jax a heads up before it got to the point of Jax's child being threatened


Exactly. It would have been useful for Jax to know ATF was in Charming as soon as Tara found out. But I guess that's one of the big mysteries about Tara though, we don't really know what her position is about all the illegal stuff SOA is involved with.

Edited by sunshine2288, Oct 12, 2008 @ 9:32 PM.


#365

mandigirl

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Posted Oct 13, 2008 @ 1:09 PM

Kinda late to the party because my tifaux didn't tape this for some reason.

Gotta say, LOVED it! This may have been my favorite episode of the series so far because everyone was on point.

First off Ally Walker was fantastic. Every actress playing the tough, prickly badass female cop cliche should look to this performance as to how to do it right! She had the perfect amount of grittiness and humor and also was an effective agent. Not surprising because AW enlivens any show (she was pretty much the only thing happening in Tell Me You Love Me on HBO)

Still in this show, the rock stars are definitely Clay and Gemma. Loved everything about their storyline this week. I guess this ends our speculation on how Gemma would react to Clay cheating! Still it was a little ambiguous: I couldn't tell if Gemma was mad that Clay cheated, or if she was mad that the woman he cheated with showed up? I found it oddly touching that she didn't try to run after hitting the girl with the skateboard. Don't know why.

Also, Jax was very interesting this episode. He took over the reigns-- and he did a great job! Yeah! Jax is getting grittier by the episode. He's really given some depth to his character. At the first, I thought he was too pretty to be believable, but I'm definitely starting to believe.

I thought perhaps Tara getting a ride from Jax was about showing the ATF guy she wasn't going to be manipulated by him.

ITA. That was my take. Very interested to see where this goes!

#366

Snookums

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Posted Oct 13, 2008 @ 1:43 PM

The interesting thing about the Hamlet template is what everyone's mentioning, that Hamlet makes sure to name Fortinbras his successor before the flights of angels sing him to his rest. That wasn't just put in as feel good ending--Shakespeare, ironically, was for reasons personal, practical, and political an anti-anarchist. He never ended even his most over the top bloodiest gorefests without a new ruling structure in place. He certainly wouldn't have gotten behind some free for all or open ending with no notion of who was going to bury the bodies and mop up the blood. People in his time would have very fresh memories of the endless struggles for power that erupt in the vacumn following a leader's death, and the thousands of lower class individuals killed, banished, or ruined in their wake. Practically speaking, his patrons were royal, and if he wanted noble butts in seats, he'd better make sure each play ended with "okay, those royals were bad, but don't worry, here's some good ones! They'll take care of you!" For all their quoting of Emma Goldman and "wild and free" posturing, this club cannot survive without structure and laws that make the Soviet Union look touchy feely.

As for Tara, I'm guessing she's still (stupidly) trying to tell herself that she cares about Jax as an old friend and is nothing but a doctor trying to do her job. Tara, if you don't choose a side, one will be chosen for you.

#367

trox50

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Posted Oct 13, 2008 @ 4:44 PM

I couldn't tell if Gemma was mad that Clay cheated, or if she was mad that the woman he cheated with showed up? I found it oddly touching that she didn't try to run after hitting the girl with the skateboard. Don't know why.


She was mad because the woman he slept with was younger, hotter, and more able to preform than her. She has fears of being replaced (rational or not).

#368

Rollins316

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Posted Oct 13, 2008 @ 5:42 PM

For all their quoting of Emma Goldman and "wild and free" posturing, this club cannot survive without structure and laws that make the Soviet Union look touchy feely.


Which reminds me of why anarchy is largely considered to be a joke of a belief system: like communism, it requires the huge ass leap of faith that the masses will be polite and be well behaved and not rape and kill and stealing everything not nailed down, in between the raping and killing. Which they won't, hence why anarchy as a concept has been linked to images of unruly teenagers breaking shit and causing property damage for fun.

#369

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 1:34 AM

That's always been my issue with anarchy and the concept of an organizational structure being self-imposed by anarchists, but I'm not versed enough in either the idealogy or its detractors to make a coherent statement.

Instead, I'll likely spend most of my time splashing happily in the shallow end.

On rewatch, Clay and Gemma's screaming match in the police station was hilarious, partly because they did such a good job showing that despite the invasion of the ATF, Charming is a small town, where everyone knows everyone and everyon'e business going back to grade school.

#370

trox50

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 8:38 AM

Which reminds me of why anarchy is largely considered to be a joke of a belief system: like communism, it requires the huge ass leap of faith that the masses will be polite and be well behaved and not rape and kill and stealing everything not nailed down, in between the raping and killing. Which they won't, hence why anarchy as a concept has been linked to images of unruly teenagers breaking shit and causing property damage for fun.


I think for the SOA, Anarchy doesn't mean exactly what you think it means. For them it is about not having laws that govern actions, except for those that they impose on themselves. It is about them feeling disenfranchised with democracy, and also wanting freedom to do the things they collectively want to do.

#371

celebritydiva

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 9:23 AM

So......Tara catches ATF Stalker Guy in the neonatal intensive care unit (is that what they're called?), and he appeared to threaten the child's life. Here's what I'm not getting: why hasn't she told Jax? I've yet to understand why she hasn't told Jax about the man previously, but the man is hovering over Jax's child unattended. Why the hell is that not the first thing out of her mouth when she sees him, rather than, "Can you give me a ride home?" And she even keeps quiet after Jax mentions the guy staring at him while visiting his son. Because.....? Goodness, just when I thought she was becoming less annoying......


I think it never occured to Tara that the ATF Stalker Guy showed up in Charming for any other reason than to continue to harass/scare her. I think when he first showed up she figured it was just a continuation of all the bullshit she went thru with him in Chicago (hence her asking Sheriff Hale if she could get a restraining order enacted in another state). I don't think she realized that he was going after Jax until she saw him in Abel's room hovering over his incubator, even after Jax told her about their prior meeting. Then it finally started to hit her. Tara should have said something to Jax right then and there in the hospital after she caught ATF Stalker Guy in Abel's room but knowing Jax's temper, I think she asked him for a ride home so she could sit down with him and tell him from start to finish what is going on without any distractions from work, etc.

Tara has no idea what ATF Stalker Guy has been up to so far. She doesn't know he lied to his bosses back home about being in Charming. She doesn't know that he followed Jax to Vegas. She doesn't know he pulled both her and Jax's criminal files. She really isn't sure who sent her the picture of Jax and the blonde strumpet (but I think she has pretty much figured it out). Tara knows ATF Stalker Guy is dangerous but I don't think she realizes just how far he is willing to go to destroy her and for that matter Jax.

#372

Colombine

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 11:37 AM

Tara does know that ATF guy followed Jax because he sent her photos of Jax with that random chick.
I never thought that Tara asked Jax for a ride to tell him, I thought she was just scared. I don't know what to think of her because we know so little about Tara and it's starting to annoy me.

#373

celebritydiva

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 12:53 PM

Tara does know that ATF guy followed Jax because he sent her photos of Jax with that random chick.
I never thought that Tara asked Jax for a ride to tell him, I thought she was just scared. I don't know what to think of her because we know so little about Tara and it's starting to annoy me.


Tara could also be thinking that maybe Gemma (with her devious self) was the one behind the picture and not the ATF Stalking Guy. The previews of Wednesday's show have Jax threatening Tara's ex so I am assuming that she finally tells him what's up or he somehow figures it out.

#374

loriltx

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Posted Oct 14, 2008 @ 3:26 PM

The ATF guy did not deny he sent the picture to Tara when she confronted him about it--instead he just responded that he did not want to see her get hurt by that guy (Jax). The previews also showed Tara telling Jax that the guy was stalking her.

#375

toddthomas

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Posted Oct 15, 2008 @ 9:22 AM

I was pondering this show yesterday when I should have been being productive.

The character I thought about this time was Hale. He's easy to cast as the bad guy, since he's the one that's standing up for lawfulness against a criminal enterprise that's painted as pretty cool. In other ways, I see him as very similar to Jax. Both are products of Charming, but from different sides of the tracks. Both are (to judge from the one scene with Hale and his father) not pleased with the direction their group (SAMCRO or rich white guys) is taking. In a way, they probably have very similar ideas about what they would like Charming to be, but different ways of getting there.

Or maybe it was just gas fumes as I was thinking this while mowing the lawn.

#376

trox50

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Posted Oct 15, 2008 @ 10:41 PM

I like this episode for the cooperation between Jax and Hale. They are in a way mortal enemies, but they both have principles that they live by, and respect each others principles to some degree.

#377

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:08 AM

Agreed about the above, but I found the resolution of the Agent Kohn storyline to be....anticlimactic, to say the least. For a Fed, he was about as threatening as a petulant eighth grader.

Still, I liked Clay a lot this ep, especially his interaction at with SweetTart at the fight (and realizing that provoking Half-Sack into winning was totally his fault, which was hilarious). I go in and out of liking Gemma. Loved her last week, really hate her need to run the life of her over-30 son. She was ok with him being married to sometimes-junkie Wendy, but she's worried about Tara, who at least seems to have made a choice to put down roots in Charming with a good job? This seems petty, even if all of her motivations have been clearly established.

"Whose idea was this?"

"Tig's!" "Bobby's!"

Heh.

#378

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:09 AM

Good episode.

Nice that Tara finally got around to telling Jax the reason Kohn showed up in Charming.

Is it just me or does every woman in Jax's life think he's easily manipulated? Gemma thinks Tara will be a bad influence and pull him away from the club. Tara thinks his questioning why she came back to town is Gemma's influence.

Given that Tara supposedly left town thinking life was much better outside of Charming and only returned when some nutjob started stalking her, of course Jax is going to start to think she just wanted his brand of justice.

I don't think the ATF lady planted those doubts in Jax's mind, he's smart enough to see through that, but it obviously did hit a nerve. Probably brought to light the very questions Jax already had.

Edited by sunshine2288, Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:48 AM.


#379

vampdeath

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:24 AM

That was ATF Guy's plan? Just hang around town creeping her out and hope no one checks with his supervisor for weeks?

#380

sunshine2288

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:34 AM

With Jax's insistence that Kohn would hurt Tara and her saying he was dangerous I expected more. But peeing on the carpet in the baby's room was it? Yeah he stabbed Jax with the scissors but he did just get shoved through a window so...

Maybe they just figured if they told us Kohn was a legitimate threat we'd believe it.

#381

Kai

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:58 AM

Moving on...

Edited by Kai, Oct 16, 2008 @ 7:30 PM.


#382

headhurt

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 2:39 AM

Firstly, I don't think this is the last we've seen of Ex-ATF boyfriend.

Second, I've grown a slight crush on Hale. He seems to have a soft spot for Tara. Perhaps they show is moving towards a triangle of Tara-Jax-Hale. I could get behind that.

Gemma is a cold, calculating itch-bay. I wouldn't be surprised that she tries to do something to Lowell to protect all the dirty laundry, whereas Clay couldn't pull the trigger. I think Clay looks to Lowell as more a son than he looks to Jax.

#383

robbieaz62

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 9:37 AM

His dealings with Gemma in jail and Jax in this episode indicates that Hale's attitude towards SAMCRO seems to have lightened considerably since the first few episodes. He no longer struts around like a crusader with a chip on his shoulder. Indeed, he now seems fairly indifferent to the club and appears to be merely humoring the feds. Reminds me of Agent Harris' transformation during The Sopranos, although this one happened much faster.

#384

ciscokidinsf

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 10:47 AM

Yeah, the ATF guy plot was stupid, even if he does come back. I think he was just filler until Allie Walker as the kick-ass ATF lady arrived. I've always thought he cleared his trip to Charming with his ATF bosses with some BS investigation excuse at least.

Also, it was sweet (in a sick twisted way) that Clay wanted to make sure SweetButt was loyal to Half-Sack. Even if his plan misfired badly to get Half-Sack to lose the fight. Still, wouldn't Clay had to be more careful and more pissed of b/c of the outcome? They need the $$$ desperately for the latest Gun purchase, it has been 3 episodes since the guns arrived, I think all they have is $25K of the $200K they need. That can't be good. Did they make any money since Half-Sack won?

If Gemma really doesn't want Jax and Tara to get back together, she needs to find Jax a girl... I mean, unless Gemma's plan is to clean the baby-junkie-mama for a comeback bid or something (and I want to see some Drea de Matteo back)

Also, sad scene with the dead Sam Crow-er son who was unable to go clean and committed suicide. But finding out Clay killed him was way harsh.

Edited by ciscokidinsf, Oct 16, 2008 @ 10:52 AM.


#385

monkeygland

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 11:22 AM

So, um, what stays buried (apart from some great ideas under lackluster plots)?

#386

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 11:37 AM

This is getting delightfully over the top. The characters are making bad decisions and, so far, not suffering (although it's only been a few weeks in Charming). It's The Sopranos with more action and less thinking.

I think Tara went to Charming because it was her safest place. Agent Stalker would have to make a big commitment to pursue her, and she would always have the option of going to Jax if the shit hit the fan.

I hope there are more of the creative underworld scenes like the bareknuckle fighting. That's fun.

The big revelations of character suggest that this show will run out of steam relatively quickly, but that's the producers' problem, not mine. :-)

#387

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 12:54 PM

Second, I've grown a slight crush on Hale. He seems to have a soft spot for Tara. Perhaps they show is moving towards a triangle of Tara-Jax-Hale. I could get behind that


Yeah, agree with headhurt here all the way. Hale is HAWT as hell.

And Jay Karnes has made playing unbalanced psychos into an art form.

I liked this episode and REALLY liked Jax giving Kohn the beatdown he deserved. I think that Jax is still in love with her but now with Gemma's interference he's now thinking that Tara used him a little. That is going to come back to haunt him I think.

My guess, and this is just my theory here, is that Tara is going to get closer to Hale in the future. She's going to realize that Jax is VERY much under the thumb of his mom and will start to move on from him and towards Hale-I think he likes her a great deal anyway. That will force Jax to really re-examine his feelings for Tara and hopefully give him the push to becoming his own man who can make his own decisions. I also have a bad feeling that we will see Psycho guy again.

I found myself respecting Tara a lot in this episode. She went thru total hell in Chicago, not just in dealing with Kohn but with every agency she went too blowing her off until she got the RO. Then she went back to Charming, her hometown and safe haven, got a good job and got on with things the best she could. That is bravery there. I want to know more about her.

I am stunned over how good Katey Sagal is as Gemma. I keep thinking when I watch her "That is the same woman who played Peggy Bundy." She is Emmy worthy on SOA. So is Ron Perlman.

Love Ally Walker!! It's a reunion for her and Perlman since they were in the movie Happy Texas.

#388

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:32 PM

"Hale could pour poison in Lowell's ear."

I had to stop the TiFaux and shriek with glee when Jax said that. Oh, writers! You magnificent clever monkeys, you.

Also, I could totally get behind a Hale/Jax/Tara triangle.

#389

celebritydiva

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:45 PM

Firstly, I don't think this is the last we've seen of Ex-ATF boyfriend.


Word HeadHurt. I think ATF man is coming back to Charming in a big way. Maybe not right away but he will be back. I still don't understand why he felt the need to pee on the carpet in Abel's room. Was he somehow "marking" his territory?? What was up with that??

Loved Bobby Elvis baking cookies...LOL!! And once again I loved Clay in this episode. For all of his violent behavior, he showed last night that deep down beneath the bravado, hubris and psychopathic actions...he does indeed have somewhat of a heart. The fact that Lowell Jr. is still alive is proof of that as well as the playfulness he showed with Lowell's son at the garage. Even at the end of the episode when he layed down next to Gemma and took comfort in her being there. However he is still crazy and he is still a bastard. Half-Pint now owes the club $35K for winning the fight!!! Just when I thought Half-Pint had somewhat of a brain, he fucks up again. Granted Clay was the reason why but he still screwed up and then Clay puts the icing on the cake by telling him: "Well at least you got the girl."...what a s.o.b.

And Tig is a necrophiliac!!!...what the hell?? Freak of the club by far and he had the quote of the night: "I think my ass is infected." Gotta love Tig. No Opie (frown) and no Alvarez but at least next week we get to see The Nords and the local chapter of The Mayans back in action for the first time since the show started....bout time. Glad the producers remembered that SAMCRO is in the middle of gang warfare for killing some of The Mayans, blowing up their warehouse and stealing back their guns.

So loving Jax for beating the living shit out of Kohn and so loving him for finally telling Gemma to go sit down somewhere and mind her business when it comes to Tara. Still curious as to why the ATF lady was trying to put doubts in Jax's head about his relationship with Tara...what is she trying to gain by doing that??

Maybe its me but I smell trouble coming from Sweetbutt. I don't think she is nearly as stupid or naieve as we've been led to believe.

#390

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Posted Oct 16, 2008 @ 1:57 PM

Ron P. really deserves some more recognition for this role. Hopefully of the award variety, but I've seen him in many, many things over the years and always feel he's undervalued.

Clay, to me, seems to have touches of a couple other Shakespearean characters to him, since Hamlet has come up before. Sometimes I feel like his Lady Macbeth is steering things. Other times he seems far more forceful and in control, but then there are the King Lear moments--subtle things like rubbing his arthritic hands before bed--that show the king is weakening with age.

While the show is far from perfect, it's entertaining me because of nuanced characters like Clay. He's a prime a-hole, he's a caring husband, he's a businessman, he's losing a pretend gunfight to Moby, he's an autocrat with an iron fist, he looks like a caring grandfather watching Abel, etc. One of the reasons I first was hooked on the Sopranos was because of the three-dimensional view of mob life.