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The Fashion Thread: Shirtwaists and Non-Ironic Skinny Ties


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#421

SilverSky66

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 5:16 AM

Yes - those pumps were so stylish! Off the chain purse too! Peggy can accessorize. She's so not a guy, well maybe a gay man, but still....

Her shoes reminded me of the good ole days when I used to go through my mother's closet (she was 30 in 1966) and try on all the cool shoes stacked in boxes, from the 60s til the 80s. Ostrich kitten heels, alligator pumps in dark green, flats with fancy buckles and accessories attached to the front. Man, people had style then or as my father in law says, "When living was LIVING!" Everything seems so cheap (made in China) now and you have to go vintage or be a millionaire to get anything decent and well-made.
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#422

Scaramanga

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 9:09 AM

Add me to the list of people who want Peggy's green shoes!
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#423

Lollia Pollina

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 9:32 AM

Peggy must be making good money to be able to afford a matching handbag, shoes and handbag all in one fashionable colour that likely won't fit with anything else in her wardrobe and will go out of fashion (as colour trends do) fairly quickly.
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#424

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:17 AM

Peggy must be making good money to be able to afford a matching handbag, shoes and handbag all in one fashionable colour that likely won't fit with anything else in her wardrobe and will go out of fashion (as colour trends do) fairly quickly.


Maybe that's why she was so eager to get money from Roger - she'd overspent on her clothing budget!
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#425

Decormaven

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 12:35 PM

Loved that wine-colored dress Joan wore to the Italian restaurant. Janie Bryant gives a nice description of its design in a clip on AMC- vintage fabric! Also loved the brooch she wore; I need a screen cap of the earrings. Bryant says they were a set.
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#426

SueB

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:31 PM

What's up with Pete & Roger wearing floods in "Mystery Date"? Look at the scene when Pete is leaving and Roger is sneaking over to Peggy's office. Serious floods. Don seems to have escaped.

Edited by SueB, Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:31 PM.

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#427

SilverSky66

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 7:40 PM

I noticed that too. ESP. Pete. It was glaring. Did their clothing budget get knocked down?
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#428

staveDarsky

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 11:08 AM

They needed to pay for Peggy's coordinated outfit. I guess it came out of the pants allowance!
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#429

Scaramanga

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:54 PM

Maybe that's why Pete and Roger are so crabby; their pants are pulled up too tight.
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#430

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:52 PM

I hated when the men started to wear suit jackets and pants of separate colors, I think it looks so much worse. I guess that was the beginning of the sportscoat era, but the look reminds me of a network page uniform, lol. The one color suits look so much better imo.
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#431

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 9:38 AM

I was talking Mad Men with a friend and she told me that in the 1960s her mom had a paper dress.

Joan - with her body type, Joan is not going to be a waif or mod. My main issue with her clothes is they all appear made-to-order, variations on the same dress body/pattern. I wish the costume designer would create a look that suggests Joan actually purchases her clothes instead of having a body form and a couple of patterns and a personal dressmaker. It's more that the clothes are SO specific to her body, and her body type has always been tricky to dress (for a working woman) - because the tailored stuff didn't fit and the stuff that fit might look trashy. I'd like to see her clothes get creative - if possible - because I dont think there was such a variety of perfectly fitted clothing for Joan's body type and budget available. I know her look isn't contemporary and I like that she's not a trend-follower, but it's also difficult to make those choices. I don't know, I'd like to see the costume designer attempt to keep to Joan's style using what was likely in the stores at the time.

Peggy must be making good money to be able to afford a matching handbag, shoes and handbag all in one fashionable colour that likely won't fit with anything else in her wardrobe and will go out of fashion (as colour trends do) fairly quickly.


Did NYC have sample sales back then? That is how a LOT of NYC women dress high end for less (or even for cheap). Peggy's tiny enough for sample sales.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Apr 11, 2012 @ 9:36 AM.

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#432

SueB

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:12 AM

I think Janie B. takes delight in how curvy Joan is and will continue dressing her like a bombshell who marches to the beat of her own drummer.

Twiggy, waif, heroine chic. These all led to the alien model body. (If you haven't see Dove Evolution you should).

Here's hoping Janie Bryant/Christina Hendricks/Joan Holloway-Harris continue to make curvy look good.
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#433

izabella

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:14 AM

Joan - with her body type, Joan is not going to be a waif or mod. My main issue with her clothes is they all appear made-to-order, variations on the same dress body/pattern. I wish the costume designer would create a look that suggests Joan actually purchases her clothes instead of having a body form and a couple of patterns and a personal dressmaker. It's more that the clothes are SO specific to her body, and her body type has always been tricky to dress (for a working woman) - because the tailored stuff didn't fit and the stuff that fit might look trashy. I'd like to see her clothes get creative - if possible - because I dont think there was such a variety of perfectly fitted clothing for Joan's body type and budget available. I know her look isn't contemporary and I like that she's not a trend-follower, but it's also difficult to make those choices. I don't know, I'd like to see the costume designer attempt to keep to Joan's style using what was likely in the stores at the time.


I can see how her party dresses might have been customized for her - upscale shops will often make some alterations.

But her everyday clothes would be a lot harder for her to find a good fit. Dresses (even today!) are not designed for hourglass figures, especially well-endowed hourglasses. I could she her getting away with blouses and skirts because you can at least get those in different sizes. But still, I think her tops would still need to be altered because most blouses that would fit her breasts would be far too loose at her waist. Did department stores do a lot of alterations back then? She would probably have had to spend a fortune on alterations no matter where she shopped.
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#434

newyawk

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:48 AM

Someone like Joan back then, I would think would have to make a lot of her own clothes. On a tangent, I think Old/Middle-aged Joan is going to end up with a figure like The Facts Of Life's Mrs. Garrett, lol.
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#435

SueB

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:17 AM

Someone like Joan back then, I would think would have to make a lot of her own clothes.


I was JUST thinking that. Maybe if her Mom stays we'll see them talking about it and sewing together. My mother had her own dress form so she could work alone. Makes a big deal if you have a second person.
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#436

not Bridget

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:16 PM

Did department stores do a lot of alterations back then? She would probably have had to spend a fortune on alterations no matter where she shopped.


My Mom's "good old days" were the 1940's & 50's. But she said department stores routinely altered women's clothes back then. Probably the "better" items--but she was definitely not well off. I would imagine Joan knows how to handle her assets--whether she has the store do alterations, she does them herself or she knows a seamstress/tailor.

The show's main purpose is not to give us a 100% accurate picture of the past. Much research has been done--which I appreciate. But they do not want to let the actors look like shit--unless that's part of the story.

For one thing: There were more seriously bouffant hairdos than we've seen on the show; but they were hideous, so they are downplayed somewhat.
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#437

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:37 PM

Yes on alterations. There are still stores that do that now although they are a dying dying breed. The Mad Style post is up at TLo. They're seeing Joan as now drawing fashion inspiration from Liz Taylor and I think they're onto something.
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#438

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

I think it's great that the clothes emphasize Joan's figure etc. it's just that it appears she is buying variations on the same dress. Where does she get so many versions of the same pattern? That's what stands out to me - 3/4ths sleeves, same cut, and length and very often a modest scoop neck. Because she's wearing the same dress pattern so often it looks to me like dressmaker or costume designer wear, not something Joan would actually be able to buy, even altered to fit - and her alterations would be more expensive than the usual IMO. She's the only one who appears to me to be costumed by a costume designer - she looks like a woman who has been measured by a costume designer and had a whole bunch of costumes built on a pattern cut by the costume designer.

Wasn't there an era when menswear was altered free and womens wear they charged?
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#439

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:43 PM

I was looking at old family photos and I found one from 62 or 63. My mom was wearing the most adorable 2-piece outfit--a shift with vertical stripes over a pair of capris. The shift was slit up to around hip level and hung down in front and in back over the capris. I wish I had that outfit, though I'd have to lose about 10 lbs to fit into it. My mom was a housewife in So California so I don't really think of her clothes as applying to what we see on MM.

It was also so much fun looking at her pictures from college during the WWII years. Gosh, I love those 40s clothes. So flattering.

Makes me feel bad for living in my jeans.
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#440

newyawk

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:52 PM

I think it's great that the clothes emphasize Joan's figure etc. it's just that it appears she is buying variations on the same dress. Where does she get so many versions of the same pattern? That's what stands out to me - 3/4ths sleeves, same cut, and length and very often a modest scoop neck.


When you are of a certain build, you learn very quickly what your limitations are as far as clothing (for example, clothing with darts or empire waists look terrible on someone of her build.) She wears the lines that are consistently flattering to her shape, although I do see what you are saying.
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#441

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:54 PM

Luciaphile, thanks for that link! I love the observations about the costumer's choice of tying characters together through color families. Very perceptive. Re: Joan and alterations: remember Joan worked for a time at a department store (blanking on name). Remember, Pete ran into her when he took the au pair's dress back in the episode, "Souvenir." Joan probably has a seamstress (perhaps from that store) who can make the necessary alterations to her clothes. And back in the day, there was always a woman in the neighborhood who took in sewing to supplement her income. No matter what, Joan's clothes are always going to fit just so.
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#442

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 4:17 PM

But her everyday clothes would be a lot harder for her to find a good fit. Dresses (even today!) are not designed for hourglass figures, especially well-endowed hourglasses. I could she her getting away with blouses and skirts because you can at least get those in different sizes. But still, I think her tops would still need to be altered because most blouses that would fit her breasts would be far too loose at her waist.


Even in this day of high street fashion, I can find a very reasonably priced seamstress who adjusts my dresses the same way Joan would need hers done (fits the hips and bust, needs taken in at waist). I'd have thought this would have been more common back then - but I'm not sure why I've made this assumption.
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#443

Inquisitionist

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 5:04 PM

I'd have thought this would have been more common back then

In my experience, it was common. We had family friends who did alterations out of their home in the 1960s (the husband also worked as a tailor for a men's clothing store, mainly altering suits). They were always busy, mostly rehemming, but also "taking things in" to better fit people.

Also, I think clothing was comparatively more expensive back then (if you could make your own, you could really save a bundle), so alterations weren't a major additional expense.

Edited by Inquisitionist, Apr 11, 2012 @ 5:05 PM.

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#444

SueB

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 8:12 PM

Also, I think clothing was comparatively more expensive back then (if you could make your own, you could really save a bundle), so alterations weren't a major additional expense.


So true! I'm a seamstress myself. I made all my kids Halloween costumes for 20 years. I have to tell you it's far more expensive to make rather than buy these days. The fabric, the time, the "tools", are all more than people are willing to pay when you can get something serviceable at a much lower price with a hour stop at a store.

The sad reality, of course, is it's the overseas underpaid labor that makes it so.
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#445

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:57 AM

So true! I'm a seamstress myself. I made all my kids Halloween costumes for 20 years. I have to tell you it's far more expensive to make rather than buy these days. The fabric, the time, the "tools", are all more than people are willing to pay when you can get something serviceable at a much lower price with a hour stop at a store.

The sad reality, of course, is it's the overseas underpaid labor that makes it so.


My mother made most of my clothes and my sister's until I was about seven. I still remember the time she wanet to the fabric store and realized that since we were getting too big to use remnants, it was no longer cheaper to make things at home.
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#446

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 10:55 AM

Was rewatching S4 Chinese Wall to refresh my understanding of the MM timeline when I flashed on the final scene with Jane and Roger in the library. The harp in the corner made me think of this. I think some of Jane Segal Sterling's polish came from her observations, not from her upbringing. Wonder if she knew "Stranger in Paradise" was Polovtsian Dance Number 2 by Borodin?
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#447

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 12:24 AM

The question will be when Joan comes back to work, what will her role be? Is she still basically the office manager? Is she mostly administrative?

It's 1966, and I don't believe a professional woman should be dressing like a sex bomb, with very tight dresses. While we know Peggy is considered creative, so she can dress less formally, Joan should be showing up in suits, or dresses with jackets. Fashion has taken a huge leap since the Beatles ushered in the concept of mod clothes, and Joan's clothes -- even the dress she wore to the office visit -- look dated and out of place.

There's a huge contrast with the way she wears clothes and the way Megan effortlessly glides around looking casually chic. (I'm still hoping to see a scene with Megan and Betty before Bets drops the weight to contrast the old and new Mrs. Drapers.)

Edited by PolkaDotty, Apr 15, 2012 @ 12:26 AM.

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#448

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 6:15 AM

Joan is Director of Agency Operations although when they gave her that title, they didn't have the money to give her a raise.
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#449

Quiet1ne

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 9:54 AM

It is not like Joan has been out off the office for years; Kevin is only a couple of months old. In the preview, she appeared to be dressing like she did at the end of last season in a blouse with, presumably, a pencil or A-line skirt. She has never been one for suits and I don't expect her to start now.
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#450

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:03 AM

For one thing: There were more seriously bouffant hairdos than we've seen on the show; but they were hideous, so they are downplayed somewhat


Oh, yeah. I understand why they don't do that with major characters, but there should a secretary or two in the background with huge teased bouffant hair (which is what I think a real-life Joan would have had at this point, too).

Wasn't there an era when menswear was altered free and womens wear they charged?


Men's clothing stores today charge for alterations (except finishing pants cuffs), but at least they will do them. At at high-end stores like Brooks Brothers or Nordstrom, the price for minor alterations - shortening jacket sleeves or taking in the waist - is a small fraction of the cost of the suit. Naive question, but ... do women's clothing stores not do alterations of any kind? Even very expensive stores? Even for tailored suits, which really do have to be altered to fit well on most people?
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