31 replies to this topic

[isiscloud]

From HK4: Day 11 Thread

Well, it has been known to happen that a network starts working on an idea but takes time to fully execute the idea. In the meantime, sometimes other networks catch wind and cook up (no pun intended) the same idea but whip it on air before working out the bugs. Suppernanny/Nanny911, WifeSwap/TradingSpouses are examples of this same concept.

However, I don't see Hell's Kitchen as the same type of show as Top Chef or even The Next Iron Chef even though there are similarities in some of the challenges that are unique to cooking.

My Take:
Hell's Kitchen: looking for the best manager, with some emphasis on cooking ability, creativeness, but not creating their own restaurant per se. Chef doesn't need to be as much a chef as a cook who can pull things together for a restaurant.
Top Chef: looking for the best all-around chef who can do a variety of things, but you don't really know if they're going to be an exec chef or more of chef/restauranteur. Chef needs some leadership ability, but the cooking and creativeness is the star.
Next Iron Chef: Looking for someone who can take whatever's thrown at them during an Iron Chef challenge to beat the competitor. Doesn't really need to be a restaurant chef, just meet the challenge and WIN.

thoughts?

ETA: I think there's room for all three if you keep in mind their differences.

Edited by isiscloud, Jun 11, 2008 @ 5:07 PM.

[tesseractgirl]

I kinda have to disagree just a bit on "Next Iron Chef". I mean, they had some pretty heavy hitters there. Besh himself has...what, 3 restaurants just in the New Orleans area.

And back in the day, the "goal" of Hell's Kitchen was "supposed" to be Ramsey proving that he could turn anyone into a chef...*sigh*-the good old days.

[Yzerra]

There is definetly room for all 3 of these shows, but I don't think they'll be looking for a new Iron Chef anytime soon. Though I would say that Top Chef requires the most all-around talent, HK requires the most capacity for learning, and Iron Chef is a huge test of time management.

[bumblehare74]

Top Chef and Hell's Kitchen winners work in the private sector and don't have a TV show, so their personalities don't come into play in terms of who wins or loses.

I do wonder where The Next Food Network Star fits in. To me, that show is more about personality than substance.

I don't think I have ever seen, Next Iron Chef. I really can't comment on it.

[Yzerra]

Next Iron Chef was all pretty much all about thinking on their feet... which is all Iron Chef really is. Though they did do a prep relay type thing ala Top Chef that was really cool

[tesseractgirl]

Though they did do a prep relay type thing ala Top Chef that was really cool

That was perhaps my favorite challenge on "Iron Chef". Though they did seem to "resemble" the Top Chef challenges a bit on that show.

Before this season though, Hell's Kitchen was my favorite of the three.

[isiscloud]

NIC seems a lot more technical and exposes the group to a variety of challenges such as the mise en place that was a more robust challenge than the ones on TC and HK. (that was my favorite challenge, too) Plus, they were able to experiment with the tools of molecular gastronomy whereas HK seems to be very traditional cooking and TC contestants bring their own skills rather than experiment with new techniques.

I guess what I'm saying is that restaurant experience isn't necessary for NIC due to the nature of the ultimate goal of the winner. The point of Hell's Kitchen is who could be the exec chef of a restaurant and it helps to have that experience already even though it isn't required and the Top Chef winner received money to open a restaurant should they choose to do so.

Not to mention the differences in level of product placement.

[erino]

It is my belief that Hell's Kitchen tests who can stay strong while being barraged with criticism from Chef Ramsey. I like the show, but in real life, if anyone spoke to me like that, I'd be out the door. And, yes, I realize great chefs can be tempermental, but this is beyond crazy.

I don't believe GR actually talks like that to his employees. He pushes the contestants as far as he can, to see who can take it and still function.


ETA: My favorite is Top Chef, because we get to see more of the food and how it's made. That's what attracted me to these shows in the first place. I've often tried recipes from TC.

Edited by erino, Jun 16, 2008 @ 8:07 PM.

[katje]

I do wonder where The Next Food Network Star fits in. To me, that show is more about personality than substance.

Same here. Their second season began recently and I was wondering--has the season-one winner been given a show yet? I haven't paid very close attention the the FN line-up. I think the elimination line for this show ("Your series has been canceled") is beaten in lameness only to that used on Step Up and Dance.

Top Chef is my favorite, hands down.

[ersatzreality]

Next Food Network Star is airing the fourth season. The prior winners all got shows: Dan Smith & Steve McDonagh (Party Line With The Hearty Boys), Guy Fieri (Guy's Big Bite), and Amy Finley (The Gourmet Next Door).

[katje]

Next Food Network Star is airing the fourth season.

D'oh! I guess I wasn't kidding when I said I haven't been paying attention to the FN schedule!

[porkchop1]

July 18 will feature a cookoff at the Food and Wine Festival at Veggie U, Milan, Ohio. The participants will be James Briscone, winner of Chopped; Paula DaSilva, runnerup in HK5, and LeeAnne Wong, TC1 contestant and culinary producer of TopChef. Briscone has the advantage since three of the four judges work for Food Network.

[Constantinople]

Just watched Hell's Kitchen for the first time last night (both episodes). Are these chefs typical for HK?

Top Chef has had it's share of odd ducks, but a number of HK chefs have serious mental issues (in addition to those who are simply delusional).

[ProfCrash]

Every season has it share of crazy Chefs but this season seems to have a much larger number then most. Normally the Chef's are delusional and think they are great when they really suck. This season seems to have some people with serious mental health issues.

[HeatherDi]

To me the only real shows looking for Chef's are Top Chef and the Next Iron Chef. Those have actual experienced chefs and cooks as the contestants. The other shows are more purely for entertainment and aren't really looking for chefs. I watch all the shows but Hell's Kitchen to me is just to watch to see how much abuse random people who just happen to cook (sometimes) can take. I mean last year one of the people on HK was a Food Court Cook. What is that? They put pizza in to warm up? Then the Next Food Network Star is to find a tv personality who also happens to know a bit about cooking.

[rack]

They include a few people without formal training or experience for larfs, but the people who do well tend to have those things. Louie the Diner Guy, for example, clearly had no clue about how a fine dining kitchen works and the division of labour between the different stations. And he had no idea about his own station, either. And then he mutilated all that precious, beautiful lamb ...

[Rock Hopper]

Top Chef is the best, IMO. They care more about the food than the personalities. I watch for the food info! Simple.

[backformore]

erino:

It is my belief that Hell's Kitchen tests who can stay strong while being barraged with criticism from Chef Ramsey. I like the show, but in real life, if anyone spoke to me like that, I'd be out the door. And, yes, I realize great chefs can be tempermental, but this is beyond crazy.

If a boss spoke to you like that in real life, you'd have a case for a lawsuit. temperamental is one thing, verbal harassment is another.

profcash:

Every season has it share of crazy Chefs but this season seems to have a much larger number then most. Normally the Chef's are delusional and think they are great when they really suck. This season seems to have some people with serious mental health issues.

Or some actors who can portray people with serious mental health issues. I think there is at least one contestant who was cast in order for him to have a big meltdown. It's good for ratings.

[ProfCrash]

Or some actors who can portray people with serious mental health issues. I think there is at least one contestant who was cast in order for him to have a big meltdown. It's good for ratings.

I have not heard of this or read about it. If you have info on this, I would love to see it.

[dwmarch]

I just caught an episode of Kitchen Nightmares (US) last night and realized that Kitchen Nightmares is the exact same show as Hell's Kitchen!

HK starts with a challenge: the challenge is to make various dishes of Ramsay's choosing. He will respond to at least one of the dishes with a mixture of scorn, derision and disgust. The loser gets a bollocking from Ramsay and is punished by doing hard labor in the kitchen.
KN starts with a challenge: the challenge is to make various dishes of Ramsay's choosing. He will respond to at least one of the dishes with a mixture of scorn, derision and disgust. Ramsay then gives the chef a bollocking and makes them do the hard labor that their kitchen needs.

HK has a dinner service, which is usually disastrous because the chefs don't communicate with each other and can't cook to save their lives.
KN has a dinner service, which is usually disastrous because the chefs don't communicate with each other and can't cook to save their lives.

On HK Gordon Ramsay will sometimes single out a particularly bad chef and sack them in the middle of dinner service. A chef in the background gets a chance to shine.
On KN Gordon Ramsay will sometimes single out a particularly bad chef and sack them in the middle of dinner service. A chef in the background gets a chance to shine.

HK gives the winner a wonderful prize which they are always overjoyed to see.
KN gives the restaurant a wonderful makeover which the owners and staff are always overjoyed to see.

Both shows end with happy people looking forward to their successful restaurant career.

Both shows have confessionals from the staff/chefs in which they bitch and moan about the other staff/chefs.

The sweeping establishing shots of the restaurant are even the same. The pace of the show is the same. It's almost comical how similar the shows are.

[InDueTime84]

I noticed last week that both Hell's Kitchen and Top Chef had a dice throwing theme for the Reward/Quickfire challenge. On HK, it dealt with the types of ingredients used in the dish, while on TC, it dealt with the number of ingredients in the dish. I don't know if that was a coincidence or what.

[xingcat]

To me, Hell's Kitchen isn't a cooking show at all. The contestants are very rarely called upon to do anything outside their comfort levels with food, and the eliminations are always based on the repetitive tasks they're assigned on the lines of a kitchen. This could very well be called "Hell's Laundromat" and the contestants could be eliminated based on whether or not shirts lost buttons, pants still had stains, or whether dresses were ironed correctly.

[isiscloud]

To me, Hell's Kitchen isn't a cooking show at all. The contestants are very rarely called upon to do anything outside their comfort levels with food, and the eliminations are always based on the repetitive tasks they're assigned on the lines of a kitchen. This could very well be called "Hell's Laundromat" and the contestants could be eliminated based on whether or not shirts lost buttons, pants still had stains, or whether dresses were ironed correctly.

I think Hell's Kitchen is much more representative of real restaurant work rather than Top Chef and each has its own place in the food world. HK usually tries to elevate a line-cook type person into a chef whereas Top Chef the chefs may already be a little higher in the food chain gunning, at least at the beginning of the show's conceit, for their own restaurant. Imagine the experience working in a GR restaurant as a head chef. If anything that's a great internship/apprenticeship.

If they can't get the basics right, how can they get the rest right?

[ProfCrash]

The contestants are called on to be creative. There are plenty of quick fire type challenges. They have a set period of time, a list of ingredients, and specific dishes that they have to make. They are judged on those dishes. It is not a surprise that the Chefs who normally do well in those challenges are the Chef's that last longer in the competition. In the coming weeks there will be more challenges were the Chefs are allowed to create their own menus and the like.

The rest of the competition tests their ability to handle all the stations in a kitchen, learn and execute new dishes, and work as a team.

Is there a ton of drama? Yes. But almost all of that drama seems to be generated by performances in the challenges and in the kitchen. We really don't see too much of the drama created in the dorms. Normally when we see them in the dorms the scene revolves around picking nominees or discussing winning or losing a challenge.

[whydoiwatchtv]

I still think that the Top Chefs would have a lot of trouble cooking for Ramsay. For example, Michael V.'s overcooked fish from TC last week would have been splattered all over his chest, lol.

The TCs working together in Hell's Kitchen would HAVE to work as a team. I think Mattin, Ash, Robin, Hector, Mike I, and Eli would be screamed at repeatedly. Some would be booted during mid-service. I would love to see it!

The whole working the line aspect would be hilarious to see from the TC cheftestants. DONKEYS!

eat: because Bryan is Michael's brother.

Edited by whydoiwatchtv, Oct 14, 2009 @ 11:14 PM.

[harpua13]

Any legitimate chef with his own restaurant would tell Gordon to shove it up his arse if he tried the kind of garbage he pulls with these schlubs.
Gordon is looking for a glorified line cook who has the ability to get yelled at for hours on end in the sake of good TV.
The only HK winners who I think wouldn't get laughed out of the kitchen on Top Chef or any real cooking competition were Rock and Danny.

[ProfCrash]

Gordon has mentored many a Chef who has ended up with Michelin Stars next to their name because of that mentoring. I have a feeling that many of the Chef's on Top Chef would be thrilled to work for Gordon. They would know that he is a perfectionist who has a great palate and has maintained a large number of Michelin Stars for many, many years.

Then again, if Gordon was working with those Chef's it would be in a regular restaurant environment and would be very, very different. Just watch how he works on the F Word for a better feel for who he is and how he behaves in a kitchen. He has grown a lot since the days of Boiling Point. What we see in the US is pretty much an act.

http://www.telegraph...us-Wareing.html

While the overall tone of the above article is negative, that is more because Wareing does not like what Gordon has become, a celebrity chef. It also seems to be pretty normal for a Chef who has been mentored by another Chef to break all ties in a rather angry fashion once they reach a certain point in their careers. Gordon did the same thing when he worked for Marco White.

The relevant point to this post is that Wareing worked with Gordon from 1993 to 2008. He was willing to deal with all of the histrionic behavior because Gordon was that talented and he was a good mentor. It is a shame that the replationship ended on a sour note but Wareing is a 2 Star Chef because of what he learned from Gordon. Now he is working in establishing a reputation away from Gordon and trying to earn his third star.

Edited by ProfCrash, Dec 16, 2010 @ 1:12 PM.

[JTMacc99]

However, I don't see Hell's Kitchen as the same type of show as Top Chef or even The Next Iron Chef even though there are similarities in some of the challenges that are unique to cooking.

Realistically, Hell's Kitchen should be compared against other "work on a team with idiots and get berated by a megalomaniac for even tiny failures" shows. I'm not sure where that puts it, Celebrity Apprentice maybe?

[ProfCrash]

I see it as something close to American Idol or Master Chef. More of a start at the bottom, get some harsh critiques, see how you learn, and in the end the person who learned the most wins.

The real difference is there is more swearing.

A lot more swearing.

[JTMacc99]

A lot more swearing.

And smoking.

I think Hell's Kitchen is different than AI or Master Chef, (or Top Chef or Next Iron Chef) because it requires the people to single out their competitors as "being the worst", which is why I compare it to The Apprentice.

The people may be cooking on this show, but it is really all about seeing how they apply whatever skills they have in a team, and then seeing how they defend themselves (usually by blaming somebody else) when their team fails. It's also about watching Ramsay being Ramsay, which is entertaining in its own way.