539 replies to this topic

[Zach Oat]

So, we've started posting some stories on Moviefile about the Watchmen movie. I'm looking forward to it, and have complete faith in Zack "300" Snyder, but it's early yet. Having read the news and been to the Website, what do you guys think?

Edited by TWoP Dietrich, Dec 29, 2008 @ 10:55 PM.

[flickchick85]

Watchmen is the only graphic novel I've ever read, and it's honestly one of my favorite pieces of fiction I've ever encountered in any medium. That said, I heard Terry Gilliam was once attached to this project, and eventually deemed it "unfilmable." I think he's right. It seems clear that Zack Snyder is being slavishly faithful to the graphic novel (though I have a sneaky suspicion he'll be changing the ending), so kudos to him, but I think the general public are going to laugh this thing into a box-office failure.

Without the excerpts of the auto-biography and the other literary elements that they can't possibly fit into this movie, it loses a lot of its depth and mood. It suddenly becomes an uber-serious "superhero movie" with people still dressed like they're in one of the regular not-so-serious superhero movies. I think it'll be hard for people to take it seriously.

And I must say I don't have too much faith in Snyder's storytelling skills because of his slavish copying of the source material. I never read 300, and I found the movie to be totally unimpressive. Don't get me wrong - I WANT this to be good and do well so badly, because I think this story is a masterpiece, but I just don't think it's possible in cinematic form. Maybe a miniseries, but not a movie. I really hope Zack Snyder proves me wrong, though, so I'm looking forward to this one with equal parts anticipation and dread.

[AimingforYoko]

I really hope Zack Snyder proves me wrong, though, so I'm looking forward to this one with equal parts anticipation and dread.

Exactly right.
I intend to see it when it comes out and it might break Moore's streak with adaptations of his work, but I won't have super high expectations. So if it's awesome I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Lantern7]

Nobody's going to be happy. So far, there hasn't been a faithful adaptation of Alan Moore's work. Okay, V For Vendetta was pretty good, but it felt a little different. Also, there wasn't a segment where a faux V terrorized the President while Benny Hill's music played on. I thought From Hell was good, and I didn't know why my friend was mad until I read the graphic novel myself. The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen? A disappointment on so many levels, especially when the screenplay came from James Robinson, who could write a pretty mean comic book himself.

I know that you can't cram twelve issues of awesome into, say, a three hour movie. I know it can't all fit into a two-disc special edition DVD set (though I heard "Tales From The Freighter" animated shorts will be on there). But it'll be interesting to see if the movie lives up to the original.

Right now. I'm currently doing the Wizard World convention, and I saw cartoonist Chris Giarusso do five of the characters, so I'm feeling the anticipation. And today, I got Comedian (played by...John Winchester? Really?!?) from him. It's not the first sketch from the book I've gotten...here's Rorscach from Farel Dalrymple. Note the detail on the jacket...it's from when 'Scach chopped up two dogs and wound up killing a child molester who had fed his last victim to the mutts.

[Perfect Xero]

The pictures of the costumes ... I don't know what the deal with Ozy's suit is, it looks like they pulled it from one of the Shumacher Batman movies.

It probably comes off as fanboy nitpicking, but Nite Owl and Silk Specter both look too sleek and stylized for my tastes. I mean, a big part of their characters is (IMO) that, when you get right down to it, adults putting on costumes to fight crime is pretty ridiculous and silly, there's just something about those pictures that gives me the sense that they're going to be engaging in slow motion wire-fu style fight scenes.

Edited by Perfect Xero, Jun 1, 2008 @ 8:57 PM.

[Zach Oat]

I agree with flickchick that the loss of the "Under the Hood" autobiography excerpts and the Black Freighter comic book parallels will make the film less deep, but that may have been the price Snyder had to pay to make a film that will play to mainstream audiences AND fit into a traditional running time. We'll have to settle for the straight to DVD "UtH" doc and Black Freighter cartoon, but after that it sounds like we may get a fully edited-together DVD of all of them down the road.

And while Snyder's willingness to put all of his efforts into mimicking the style of a comic book artist may not earn him many directing awards, I think it's a valid use of his skills, and I certainly appreciate it. They're two different mediums, and while I have little-to-no respect for someone who does a shot-for-shot remake of another movie (or a note-for-note cover of a song), I imagine it's incredibly difficult to capture the look and feel of a comic book. I recommend reading "300," by the way -- the book is as crazy an experience as the movie, even if the latter will never be considered a great film. Then read "The Dark Knight Returns," if you haven't -- they'll make that movie some day. (Maybe even next?)

And Snyder is obviously taking a few liberties with the costumes, Xero, but hopefully the characters' feelings of ridiculousness will still be there even though their costumes look a lot cooler. (Ozymandias' Schumacher look should fit in nicely with the character's motivations and personality.) Wolverine still felt ridiculous using a black jumpsuit and a codename in "X-Men," although I wish they'd tried this hard with "X-Men" to make the costumes look good AND comic-accurate (i.e. giving Wolverine a mask).

[arc]

Wait, wait. Who is "Ward"?

[Zach Oat]

Whoops, meant "Snyder." Zack Ward is an actor. Fixed post.

[ThaDude]

First: WATCHMEN is not a graphic novel.

It's a comic book.

Specifically it was a 12 issue limited series which just happened to be collected in what is known in the industry as the trade paperback (TP format. there was also a limited edition hardcover released back in 1988 an an oversized Absolute hardcover edition which came out last year.

To repeat, WATCHMEN is not a graphic novel.

The Killing Joke is an example of a graphic novel.

As for the movie itself, the fanboys want it both ways, which if they had it their way means that the movie would be about 9 hours long with no breaks or intermission.

The fanboys whining and crying and throwing tantrums over the various adaptations of comic books to the big screen has really soured me on going to see those types of movies.

As far as Nite Owl's costume looking too sleek, the character is supposed to be an uber rich dude, though not quite on the level of say, bruce Wayne who has his own hideout and various and sundry toys.

I'm baffled by the fact that the fanboy spazz crowd has said nothing about the fact that Snyder spent over 3 weeks shooting a JFK assassination sequence which apparently will play a major part in the finished film, when in the comic IIRC it barely rated 3 panels, with no direct shots of the assassination.

[Kel Varnsen]

I WANT this to be good and do well so badly, because I think this story is a masterpiece, but I just don't think it's possible in cinematic form. Maybe a miniseries, but not a movie. I really hope Zack Snyder proves me wrong, though, so I'm looking forward to this one with equal parts anticipation and dread.

I really hope he proves me wrong too. I mean there are so many cool things you can pull off in a medium where you can stare at a page for as long as you want. My favorite is in the aftermath of the alien attack there is a magazine lying in the wreckage and you can see the back page add, which is an ad for Adrian Veidt's exercise program. The slogan for the ad is ""The Veidt Method: I Will Give You Bodies Beyond Your Wildest Imagination." There is also that issue where the panels are laid out as mirror images across the centre of the book. In a movie both of those are pretty much gone.

As far as Nite Owl's costume looking too sleek, the character is supposed to be an uber rich dude, though not quite on the level of say, Bruce Wayne who has his own hideout and various and sundry toys.

I am not sure how I feel about the costumes. Yes Dan Dreiberg is supposed to be rich but at the same time I got the feeling in the book that he was socially inept and kind of a dork, which was part of the reason why his costume didn't really look very cool.

[ThaDude]

As far as Nite Owl being socially inept, how is that any different from Bruce Wayne, who plays his Wayne personna as an amiable, clumsy skirt chasing dunce?
Nite Owl's costume didn't look cool because Dreiberg had gotten flabby and out of shape. Rorschach said this straight out. The various Nite Owl costumes that Dreiberg had in his hideout actually looked pretty cool.

One of my big worries is that whoever they've got playing Silk Spectre doesn't have the proper amount of boobage for the role.

Edited by ThaDude, Jun 4, 2008 @ 2:40 PM.

[Lantern7]

Daniel's supposed to be a little beefier, his physqiue gone to pot from not fighting crime...this is opposed to Rorscach, who's probably ripped as hell from kicking ass and breaking fingers.

My acquired Watchmen sketches so far. I'm contemplating hitting up the guy who does Owly for a Nite-Owl sketch on Sunday, just to see how it gets done.

JFK assassination sequence

I'll have to go to my trade paperback, but do you mean some dude trying to whack Ozy?

ETA: I think cleavage is only a factor for the first Silk Spectre. Her daughter didn't strike me as busty.

Edited by Lantern7, Jun 6, 2008 @ 12:44 PM.

[arc]

I'll have to go to my trade paperback, but do you mean some dude trying to whack Ozy?

If memory serves, there's a throwaway line in the comic where it's implied that the Comedian offed JFK.

[overg]

The shots I've seen so far look cool, but put me down in the "they can't possibly film this" crowd. I think Moore really pushed the comics medium to its limits, and a lot of the way the story is told works *only* because it's a comic book. In addition to the background details mentioned above and the mirror image issue, he does things like have Dr. Manhattan walk through a page(when he's entering Ozy's layer, he's hit by a tacheon surge. Turn the page, and he's in the exact same position, saying the exact same words at a different point in time . . . I don't know how you could possibly film an effect like that).

It would be great if the movie is even close to the comic, but I just don't see how that can happen given the insane number of details that make the story so rich. If this movie can get even most of them in it's going to need an Ebert style frame-by-frame analysis to even begin appreciating it.

[Kel Varnsen]

Dr. Manhattan walk through a page(when he's entering Ozy's layer, he's hit by a tacheon surge. Turn the page, and he's in the exact same position, saying the exact same words at a different point in time . . . I don't know how you could possibly film an effect like that).

There is that whole issue where Dr. Manhattan is on Mars and he is basically going through his life and reliving all the key moments (due to his near omniscience he is actually reliving them not just remembering them) and he is actually in multiple times and places at once (in a totally non linear fashion). If any director could pull that off and not just make it so that he is retelling his life story I think it might blow my mind. Especially since I think because of the near omniscience the whole thing takes place over a very short amount of time in our reality. Then again even if they can pull off a giant naked blue man with god like powers, I will be pretty impressed.

[arc]

he does things like have Dr. Manhattan walk through a page(when he's entering Ozy's layer, he's hit by a tacheon surge. Turn the page, and he's in the exact same position, saying the exact same words at a different point in time . . . I don't know how you could possibly film an effect like that).

Holy crap, I've never noticed that and I've read the book at least five times.

[shimi]

Wow, I can't believe they're actually making the movie. Can't tell ya how many times I heard that ever since I read the issues in their first run. CGI has definitely come a long way so Snyder might be able to pull off certain things ( a credible Dr Manhattan for example). Some of the very cool things exclusive to the print medium though ( like the ones y'all have mentioned) I doubt very much can be translated well. I want this movie to be great but I fear that Watchmen fans like myself already have some very firm ideas and expectations. As long as it isn't complete crap I can live with it. I'm still trying to figure out the rest of the cast beyond Daddy Winchester ( who I can't quite picture as The Comedian, but at least he's a good actor). Do we not know at all or am looking in the wrong places?

[flickchick85]

I'm still trying to figure out the rest of the cast beyond Daddy Winchester ( who I can't quite picture as The Comedian, but at least he's a good actor). Do we not know at all or am looking in the wrong places?

Ozymandias is being played by Matthew Goode, who I was a little skeptical about at first (he's got the "pretty boy" aspect down, but I was wary of his acting skills), until I saw The Lookout, which he (along with Joseph Gordon-Levitt) was brilliant in. Billy Crudup's playing Dr. Manhattan. Patrick Wilson, another good actor (Little Children, Hard Candy), is playing Dan. Jackie Earle Haley, who was also GREAT in Little Children is playing Rorschach. Those are the ones I'm most excited about. You can read the rest of the cast at IMDB.

Edited by flickchick85, Jun 22, 2008 @ 10:57 PM.

[Esbat]

I haven't read the *cough* TPB of Watchmen but I've only heard great things about it so seeing the movie should be a great experience as I consider myself more a casual comic book fan.

[SideShow Steve]

I'm looking forward to this and also dreading it as well. I fear that Watchmen will be a standard super hero movie, but at least Zack Snyder loves and respects the material. I think this would have worked better as a high-budget 12 part HBO mini series though.

Edited by SideShow Steve, Jul 7, 2008 @ 4:04 PM.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm looking forward to this and also dreading it as well. I fear that Watchmen will be a standard super hero movie, but at least Zack Snyder loves and respects the material. I think this would have worked better as a high-budget 12 part HBO mini series though.

I am sort of feeling the same way, although a bit more on the dreading side. Previous Alan Moore projects have given me very low expectations when watching movie translations of his comics. I think your right a director who cares about the material is important, but then again with a movie with a $100 million+ budget the studio is going to have a lot of influence on the story (see Venom in Spiderman 3).

As far as the HBO mini I think that would be ideal, but I don't think it could happen (even if the movie wasn't being made). I mean HBO today doesn't seem to be as much about risk taking as it once was and a big-budget adaptation would be a huge risk. I mean looking online Band of Brothers had a $125 million dollar budget, so I think to do Watchmen right you would need something comparable. But at the same time I don't think a Watchmen mini could get the same kind of broad audience that Band of Brothers did.

[samsnee]

Rumor is that the first teaser should be attached to The Dark Knight, not that you needed another reason to see that one.

[SideShow Steve]

I agree that HBO wouldn't produce a Watchmen mini, even if there was no movie coming out because very few people have heard of it so there would be no built in audience. But an HBO series would be the best way to bring it to the screen, imo.

Rumor is that the first teaser should be attached to The Dark Knight, not that you needed another reason to see that one.

I hoped that would happen. I plan on seeing TDK at our shiny new IMAX theater up the street that just opened about 3 weeks ago. I have never seen a "real" movie in IMAX, Just educational ones at our Air and Space center by the airport, and that one doesn't or can't show Hollywood films. I could have seen Kung Fu Panda at our new IMAX, but I wanted my first true IMAX experience to be The Dark Knight.

Edited by SideShow Steve, Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:59 PM.

[samsnee]

Don't quote me, but I don't know if they will show the teaser on IMAX prints. Movies I've seen in IMAX usually just show a couple of previews for other IMAX films and concerts.

[flickchick85]

I agree that an HBO miniseries would be ideal for this, but would never have happened anyway.

Also, I think samsnee's right. Those of us seeing TDK on IMAX probably won't be seeing the Watchmen trailer. Unless this movie will also be released on IMAX, which I doubt, but IMAX does usually just show trailers for other upcoming IMAX releases. Oh well, it's not like I was planning on seeing TDK only once...

Plus, it'll be online that weekend (if not earlier).

Edited by flickchick85, Jul 9, 2008 @ 4:33 PM.

[Zach Oat]

Considering that Showtime is making a miniseries out of the Vertigo comic "Exterminators," I think anything''s possible. I would have loved a Watchmen mini-series on HBO. Risky? Yeah, and the budget would have been a lot smaller, but I think they could have done it well, and it might have done great for them, given the popularity of the superhero genre and Watchmen's dark, HBO-worthy take on it. Definitely still looking forward to the movie, though, even (especially) a three-hour cut. I may not get the Black Freighter DVD, because I never really "got" the story's connection to the main plot, but I'll watch the edited-together version all the same.

[Lantern7]

I think this would have worked better as a high-budget 12 part HBO mini series though.

My thinking exactly...except I would've had it animated. Just because Spawn was a violent wankfest from Todd McFarlane (as parodied here) doesn't mean it couldn't have worked. And I would've gotten Lance Hendricksen as Rorscach, on the strength of his Frank Black voice alone.

Edited by Lantern7, Jul 13, 2008 @ 1:45 AM.

[Kris_AB]

Heh, aw, I liked the HBO Spawn animated series (well, mostly just the first season, which was excellent and ended perfectly, IMO. Season 2 had some good episodes and was building to some potentially interesting/fun stuff but really started to lose its way and Season 3 is horrible). I think mostly I just liked it for Keith David's voice and some of the animation though. Just started reading the comic a month ago, the big cheap giant collections of it. It's...Todd McFarlane's a better writer in some issues than I was expecting him to be (very few capable artists are capable writers), but Alan Moore's input into the series and mini-series is a lot more enjoyable, as was Neil Gaiman's one issue and Angela mini-series about the angels. That parody is pretty spot on about the hammering on the reader that Todd did with his lead character constantly in a funk and brooding (any time he gets out of that alley and away from the bums is pretty much the only time the comic book reads any good), but I'm on issue #40 (just under half of the 100 or so issues collected, though the series is up to #180 at this point and I normally don't go near comics that last this long and seem like they'll never end, but it was something I always intended on reading in the `90s) and it looks like there's forward plot movement now, so maybe it gets more exciting again. There've been flashes so far.

Uh, pulling myself back from that tangent, my point was gonna be that yeah, I agree. Animation would've been cool. When folks clamor for live action films and TV shows of various comic books, I'm usually one of the lone voices saying that it'd make more sense to make a cartoon of it (adult, when fitting). Not everything looks right in live action and it's way more visually appealing to if they attempt to capture the look of the comic's art and succeed.

Cautiously looking forward to this.

[Kel Varnsen]

Uh, pulling myself back from that tangent, my point was gonna be that yeah, I agree. Animation would've been cool. When folks clamor for live action films and TV shows of various comic books, I'm usually one of the lone voices saying that it'd make more sense to make a cartoon of it (adult, when fitting). Not everything looks right in live action and it's way more visually appealing to if they attempt to capture the look of the comic's art and succeed.

I don't know, I think the problem with trying to do it in animation is either it just becomes a giant moving rip-off of Dave Gibbons character designs and scene artwork (basically the book becomes the storyboards and the animators just fill in the blanks), or the characters look too different and people don’t really like it because of that.

[flickchick85]

The trailer is ONLINE!

Wow, looks better than I expected. ESPECIALLY Dr. Manhattan. I don't really like the delivery of that last line - I always imagined Rorschach to sound more subtle/disconnected, but oh well. This could still suck horribly, but the trailer gives me hope. I still hate the costumes, though.

ETA: I really hope they show this at my TDK Imax screening (I know they're showing it at some Imax screenings at least). Imax was made for trailers like this.

For anyone who has trouble getting that page to load, here's a lesser quality YouTube version

Edited by flickchick85, Jul 17, 2008 @ 3:15 PM.