83 replies to this topic

[TWoP Bayliss]

Best episode since "Human Nature," IMO.

[Notentirelyhere]

Not wrong there.

[Radagast]

I'd cite "Blink", but otherwise no arguments.

[cutecouple]

I thought it was well crafted, and would serve as an excellent introductory episode to Doctor Who in general.

[TWoP Bayliss]

Exactly. It's funny -- every time I've watched it (which is several, which is rare, and and I should try it with "Blink," actually) I've tried to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so moving and ... important feeling.

It's not a hugely manipulative story, like HN, and it's not very complicated or stylistically unusual like "Blink," so what makes it special?

I think it's just what you say: well-crafted, and representative of all the things that make Who Who: the fictional and real weirdness of the historical culture, strange magic, a classic arc and plot and flow. And the wonderful performances of Donna and that girl hugely play into it too.

[TheITG]

I enjoyed the classic, er, slight navigation problem: "Rome" doesn't have the 7 hills and seems to have a volcano, as Donna points out. Oh. And it's almost eruption day in Pompeii.

[BristolBoy]

It's my favorite of Season 4 (So far up to 4 in the UK), and pretty far up there on the entire New Who run. Pretty much perfect in my eyes - in fact only the ending ruins it. It wasn't needed and seemed heavy handed.

It's got a very classic feel, as other say, but still manages to have some important and special moments. ("That's how I see the world")

The music is this is pretty good as well, especially in the quiet moments. Although some (e.g. the bit during the return of the Doctor) of it is copied/taken from VOTD.

Donna also cemented my opinion that she is one of the best companions in this episode.

I liked her when she was challenging the Doctor about why he couldn't intervene, I loved her when she shared the Doctor's burden of pushing the button and I...(what's beyond love?)...when she forced him to go back.


Plus it had "Don't get yourself in a lava".

Edited by BristolBoy, May 2, 2008 @ 7:24 PM.

[starlady]

God. Godddd. How amazing is Catherine Tate?

[RandomWatcher]

Being responsible for one of the greatest natural disasters in history. That's going to haunt the Doctor for awhile.

ETA: Considering the Doctor can see all points in time (fixed and unfixed), makes you wonder if he knew about what would happen to Rose.

Edited by RandomWatcher, May 2, 2008 @ 9:10 PM.

[Sparks5478]

So far, I'm loving the hell out of Season 4. How awesome is Catherine Tate!?!

She's from Barcelona <snort>

[CatherineTheGreat]

This was such a cool episode, and I agree with TWoP Bayliss:

It's funny -- every time I've watched it (which is several, which is rare, and and I should try it with "Blink," actually) I've tried to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so moving and ... important feeling.

Not sure what anyone else thought, but I was kind of weirdly reminded of Sept. 11, seeing the family watch Pompeii burn. When the wife said, "All those people..." It upset me, not in any offensive way, just because it stirred up some similar feelings. I never really reflected too deeply on what happened at Pompeii before, so that was a somewhat appropriate parallel.

It was great that Donna was willing to be the companion that the Doctor wanted when they pushed the button, and also the person he needed to remind him why he does what he does in the first place. I'm really enjoying Catherine Tate so far, and I wasn't entirely sure how she would be.

Two for two Series 4!

[Radagast]

So, I hear SciFi did a lot of trimming in the end sequence (Pomeiians' reactions to the volcano, including the scene with Donna and the little boy; the entire 'Six Months Later' bit). It's almost a different episode, that way; we'll certainly have different reactions...

[JennyMominRI]

They did a really awful job cutting up the last 7 minutes or so...You tube is your friend

[uptoolate1966]

Wait a minute. There was a 'six months later'? And we didn't get it? Oh, that is so annoying!

I enjoyed the episode but there were a couple of things I wanted and didn't get:

1) I wanted the Doctor to look at the girl's arm and say, "Hmm, looks like petrifold regression. How did you get that?"

2) I wanted some acknowledgement that "Volcano Day" was Captain Jack's phrase as well as Captain Jack's favorite time to run a "self-cleaning con". All it needed was for the Doctor to mention that Jack might be around here somewhere. Was that too much to ask?

Another question, and maybe I just missed the answer to this one. When the priestesses put their hands over their eyes, so that the tatooed eyes covered the real ones, they could communicate over long distances. Did anybody ever explain how that worked?

[arizonamyrie]

Wait a minute. There was a 'six months later'? And we didn't get it? Oh, that is so annoying!

But, IMHO, that was the weakest part of the episode, so for once, Sciffy may have improved. Even though the "Six Months Later" brings us back to a feeling less of complete devastation/destruction and more one of life and the world continuing to go on.

Edited by arizonamyrie, May 2, 2008 @ 10:31 PM.

[MagnoliaMer]

I love Donna - and this episode!

[Shanna Marie]

I certainly noticed that they cut the little epilogue, but wasn't there also a little internal trimming in the scenes where Donna puts her hand over the Doctor's to pull the lever together and then in the TARDIS when she convinced him to go back? It may just be because of the way they shoehorned the commercials in at the worst possible moment, but I recalled seeing a bit more in those scenes. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I could have sworn that there was a little more time for the full impact of what the Doctor had to do in killing all those people and how it was affecting him before Donna reached over to pull the lever with him, and I thought there was more discussion about how many people they could fit in the TARDIS before she finally begged him to just save a few if he couldn't save them all. The cuts sapped the best impact out of the moment, though it still brought tears to my eyes.

And the more I watch Donna, the more I love her.

Next week will be the first one I didn't see elsewhere before it's on Sci Fi, so maybe the cuts won't bother me so much, and then the DVDs will be like seeing all-new episodes.

[Lantern7]

I didn't think it was that great. I mean...it was great, but compared to, say, the Family of Blood arc? It's comparable to the first field trips of the last two companions, with a parallel to "The End Of The World" in the sense that there are times where the Doctor just can't save everybody, and he has to make the tough choices. And yeah...Donna does rock.

Out of curiosity, how many times has the TARDIS been abused in DW history? The whole "bigger on the inside" thing rocks hard, but it's still too easy to cart around.

Oh, and Rose's return got prophecized by one of the oracles. I guess stuff that can be stuffed into spiffy acronyms is passe this season.

[cutecouple]

Out of curiosity, how many times has the TARDIS been abused in DW history? The whole "bigger on the inside" thing rocks hard, but it's still too easy to cart around.

It was once turned into a pipe organ during the Sixth Doctor's reign. It's been abused quite a bit actually; shrunken to less than an inch high (1st Doctor), dispersed throughout a planet (5th Doctor, Frontios); and often moved about.

[theschnauzers]

I thought this episode was another home run by James Moran. As others mentioned upthread, it had the feeling of Classic Who (in fact, isn't this the earliest New Who has gone back in recorded history?)

And I'm am more convinced than ever that SciFi is not editing DW or SJA, for that matter but they're getting help from the BBC. I've been paying attnetion and even the music in the soundtrack doesn't seem to have any apparent edits. And this is the first series where the BBC logo has been seen in the opening credits, which I don't think SciFi would have done.

The SFX of the volcanic eruption was just fantastic. I also notice that this time it was Donna who said the "Sorr, I'm so sorry, but everyone is gonna die."

And the season arc references: "the universal ratification of the Shadow Proclaimation," the mention that the Doctor's real name is hidden in the Cascade of Medusa, and what I took as a reference to Rose when one of the seers was speaking to the Doctor and Donna.

But more or less as I said this was anotherhome run. By the way who played the son, Quintius?

[CalAggie]

I kept expecting that one of the family members was actually famous or an ancestor was, and that in the end saving them was actually part of history and meant to be.

I really enjoyed this episode and I really like Donna. I am trying to remember what it was the Doctor said that she got all excited and said "she loved him!" -- but not in a sappy romantic way, just wow that was friggin' cool thing you did.

[Kaffyr]

Did I catch the name of the rather unpleasant male Augur correctly? Petrus Dextrous? But it was his right arm which was petrified.

Apart from being shallowly facetious, however, I really loved this episode.

Donna was fantastic. She wasn't even frightened (or she certainly didn't show it) when she was tied to an altar. Her determination to save someone rang really true. Conversely, her immediate grasp of the need to help him push the plunger probably shouldn't have rung true...understanding the need to kill 20,000 people so quickly after having pleaded with him to save them is a little problematic - and yet it did, thanks to Catherine Tate's abilities. She rocks. (Although the thought occurred to me, why does the poor Doctor always have to kill things with plungers? Maybe it would be easier for him if he just had to hit a button?)

And one other reason - a bit weird, I guess - that I liked the episode, was because of the way they larked around with language. The bits about "what does Latin sound like when it's run through the TARDIS translator" was inspired - and yet it's one of the questions I'll bet some fans have played with for years. And they played it for just the right amount of laughs. Celtic/Welsh, indeed. *Snrt* Another bit of language play, for me, was because Moran decided to make our Pompeian family sound completely modern. It didn't take away from the story at all. I actually thought it added to the story in some way. I get *so* tired of people from the past sounding like People From The Paaaaast...old-fashioned sentence structures, no contractions, (the usual way we always know people from the past/another planet). The only person who sounded like that was old Petrus Dextrous, and he was a pompous idiot.

[Flipote]

That was so good! So much better than the season opener. I haven't seen the UK version, and I thought the Sci Fi one worked perfectly well without an epilogue.

I love Donna. That is all.

By the way who played the son, Quintius?

I'm not sure, but I loved his sulky teenage mannerisms. "Sorry, household gods" *desultory sprinkle*

Edited by Flipote, May 3, 2008 @ 12:43 AM.

[Ella Ollivander]

Petrus Dextrous? But it was his right arm which was petrified.

Yup. Left would have been something like Sinistrous.

The "6 Months Later" epilogue continued the portrayal of the family as being just like any modern family. We see that they have relocated to Rome and are doing very well. Caeculius is hoping to win over some Egyptian clients. Evelina is on her way to go out with some friends -- in a dress her father says is not at all appropriate. (Perhaps a little too cliche, but amusing.) Quintus has done a total 180 from the beginning: he's now training to be a doctor (though he describes himself as "just a student of the physical sciences") and very devout towards the household gods. And yes, the carving of the household gods is now of the Doctor and Donna standing on either side of the TARDIS.

Although I was amused by the household gods when I saw the episode three weeks ago (understandably, some people did find it way over the top), I really like the episode without it as well.

Edited by Ella Ollivander, May 3, 2008 @ 12:51 AM.

[CyberIstari]

I kept expecting that one of the family members was actually famous or an ancestor was, and that in the end saving them was actually part of history and meant to be.

Of course they are! They had to teach kids Latin. ;)

[Kaffyr]

Ella Ollivander

Yup. Left would have been something like Sinistrous.

*headdesk*

I am such an idiot.

Serves me right for trying to be cute. Does it help that I have always gotten left and right mixed up? Sigh.

Edited in a fruitless attempt to minimize my idiocy. Can't even get quotes right the first time round. Dayum.

Edited by Kaffyr, May 3, 2008 @ 12:56 AM.

[Albino Girl]

CalAggie, IIRC, it was because he held off the stone monster with a water pistol. And like you, I figured that the family that was saved was going to be revealed to be "important to history" in the trimmed "Six Months Later" bit but after finding it was thrilled to see that I was wrong and that they were just an ordinary family. And yes, it was sweet and life-affirming and while I saw the final "punchline" coming a mile away - it did make me smile but I wasn't devastated that it was cut and in some ways it lessened the effect of seeing them on the hilllside overlooking the devastation.

Kaffyr, I totally agree with you on the "modern" translation of the ancient Latin. I hate it when they make it seem like people in the past spoke in formal, flowery speech when usually they just spoke in a casual way. So for me, the TARDIS translated to the form of speech that suited the way that we would speak about such things. Which made the fact that Petrus Dextrous used such a formal speech pattern stand out as him being a pompous jackass because it was so obviously unnecessary. Although the use of "thy will" was a bit of a clunker to my ear when he was speaking to his "god".

There are exceptions of course. Deadwood, for example, or other period pieces set in times when people did tend to use a formal speech pattern.

And finally, I agree with all of you who feel that this episode was one of the finest episodes ever and Donna (and Catherine Tate's performance) rocked my world for all the reasons that you folks have gone into far more coherently and concisely than I ever could.

Edited by Albino Girl, May 3, 2008 @ 1:01 AM.

[Mack the Spoon]

Man, this was an amazing episode. I hadn't realized that part of the reason I thought so was because it reminded me so much of some of the best classic eps, but now that others have pointed it out, I agree. I did recognize that the scene with the lever reminded me of "Genesis of the Daleks", and wow. Just, wow. The acting in that scene? From both of them? Stunning. I almost cried.

Interesting about the epilogue. I think the episode was fine without it, but I'll still be glad to see it sometime.

[Namarie]

This was just a fantastic episode.

References to classic Who (in addition to GotD, I also was reminded of "Mask of Mandragora" [did I spell that right?] by many of the story elements), a reference to Nine with the " 'armless!" joke, and just really awesome acting, both by DT and CT, and by all the secondary characters.

The lever scene? Wow. I almost was moved to tears, too. Donna is fast moving up the ranks of my favorite Companions. She also looked gorgeous tonight. And yeah, I loved her reaction to being tied up for the sacrifice - no screaming and helplessness from this one!

As soon as I saw Petrus Dextrous, I knew he would probably be a bad guy, since I recognized him as Mr. Smallweed from Bleak House. And lo and behold, he ended up being a bad guy! Heh.

And yes, the carving of the household gods is now of the Doctor and Donna standing on either side of the TARDIS.

Heh. Okay, that's a bit OTT, but quite understandable, considering.

Speaking of OTT, the only part that I thought was a bit too cheesy was the "Vulcan --> volcanic --> volcano" thing. Oh, well. That's a very minor complaint. Overall, I adored it, and really want to watch it again.
ETA: Just to clarify, I know that's where the word "volcano" came from, but seeing its coinage onscreen was what I thought was a bit cheesy.

Edited by Namarie, May 3, 2008 @ 1:38 AM.

[BristolBoy]

No one's mentioned it (Did Sci-Fi cut it?) - What is on Donna's back?