43 replies to this topic

[meknownothing]

From imdb:

A four-part documentary series focusing on the legends that helped launched TV and left lasting impression on sitcoms, talk shows, variety shows and game shows in television's early years.

Currently airing on PBS: so far, we've seen Sitcoms, Late Night, and Variety.

This series is much too reverent in the opening and closing of each episode, with the narrator seemingly asking us to bow down in awe for these entertainers. The rest of each show, however, is great -- lots of clips, but with odd omissions. The one focusing on Variety shows called "Tony Orlando and Dawn" the last success! No mention whatsoever of "The Osmonds"/"Donny & Marie" or "Sonny & Cher"/"Cher"! Or even a joking reference to "Pink Lady & Jeff"! And Jackie Gleason is barely mentioned!

[plurie]

The choices of who they interviewed were odd. They interviewed just about everyone from the Carol Burnett Show EXCEPT Carol. If I didn't know she was still alive, I'd have thought she was dead.

[Luther Heggs]

This series is much too reverent in the opening and closing of each episode, with the narrator seemingly asking us to bow down in awe for these entertainers. The rest of each show, however, is great -- lots of clips, but with odd omissions. The one focusing on Variety shows called "Tony Orlando and Dawn" the last success! No mention whatsoever of "The Osmonds"/"Donny & Marie" or "Sonny & Cher"/"Cher"! Or even a joking reference to "Pink Lady & Jeff"! And Jackie Gleason is barely mentioned!

Sounds like they gave the cold shoulder to "The Brady Bunch Hour" and "The Chuck Barris Rah-Rah Show", too.

Edited by Strega, Jan 23, 2008 @ 3:29 AM.
fixed tags

[PaintStickConvert]

I missed the second episode, but caught one and three, but I've been disappointed. It hasn't been a true analysis of TV's beginnings, but a lovefest with"Weren't they great!!??" If I wanted that, I'd rewatch the great show on Carol Burnett the recently ran.

I just heard the Godfrey story on NPR, and they gave a lot more details about what an SOB he was, and how it eventually led to his downfall. We were given no reason why Milton Berle's show went from a 95 share to off TV. I assumed they would concentrate on the first few years of TV and show us how it developed into the form we have today, but they skip on up to the '70's.

It seemed like a good premise but hasn't fulfilled it.

[Orion7]

The one focusing on Variety shows called "Tony Orlando and Dawn" the last success! No mention whatsoever of "The Osmonds"/"Donny & Marie" or "Sonny & Cher"/"Cher"!

I was stunned that they just brushed by Sonny & Cher and moved on to Tony Orlando and Dawn. Then they showed a clip, which demonstrated that Orlando's show just copied Sonny & Cher, except that they had two smart-mouthed women instead of one. I wonder if that was because Tony would do an interview and Cher wouldn't?

I've been enjoying the series, but there have been some very odd and glaring omissions, as you all have said.

[Decormaven]

I've only seen the one on talk shows, and I appreciated it for the fact that there's a whole generation now who never got to enjoy Johnny Carson. I loved how Johnny could make guests feel so comfortable, and could draw the best from them. It's so funny to think how a spot on The Tonight Show could make a comedian's career. I also liked hearing from Dick Cavitt, whose show I also enjoyed, and Arsenio Hall, who booked some really good talent that didn't fit The Tonight Show mold. I don't think I could take the one on variety shows if it gives a glowing review of Tony Orlando & Dawn. I've never been a huge variety show fan, and I never could stomach watching that show. I wish someone would do a documentary on the costuming in variety shows. Remember all the matchy-matchy outfits on The Lawrence Welk Show, and who could forget the Bob Mackie gowns Cher wore! They were all over the top, but they definitely have stayed in the memory banks.

[Orion7]

Another weird omission was that, with all of the Ed Sullivan footage they showed, there wasn't a mention or a shot of the Beatles making their appearance on the show. I remember seeing that as a kid, and that, plus Elvis's appearances, are what the show is best remembered for now. I suppose it was a rights issue that prevented them getting the film.

[meknownothing]

The last one of this series, on game-shows, was on PBS last night, and, oddly enough, seemed the best. The 50's quiz scandal was covered, of course, but there were also details I'd never heard of, on other things: how Merv Griffin's wife gave him the idea of the format for JEOPARDY, Allen Ludden's courtship of Betty White, how TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES did not actually involve a game. I wish there had been a bit more on Chuck Barris, and on what he claims to have been his oddball secret-agent life -- also, there should have been some mention of the range of prizes awarded, all the way from cheesy to great big piles of cash.

I still think there was a lot of unrealized potential with this series, not just in its coverage of the types of show it did do, but also in the genres it neglected. How about Westerns? Cop/crime/detective shows? Educational tv?

[Fraoch]

I was really surprised they didn't devote an hour to news broadcasts. What made Walter Cronkite the most trusted man in the nation? What about Edward R. Murrow's on-air battles against McCarthyism?

I thought the Variety Show episode was the most uneven. You'd think, when they were talking about sketch comedy, that they would have mentioned where it lead--to shows like Saturday Night Live--but instead they gave the impression that skits ended when Carol Burnett went off the air.

[dreamy]

I loved the idea and by and large enjoyed the series, but like most of you, felt like it was too much skimming and some out and out neglect, of subject matter.

This would be a great book if the authors could/would go in the depth that the subject(s) deserved.

[Orion7]

I enjoyed the game show episode as well. I'm old enough that most of it wasn't new to me, but I still enjoyed it, especially the Bill Cullen tribute at the end. He was one-of-a-kind.

I agree that there are a lot of categories that could be covered. Westerns dominated the airwaves for so many years, but then vanished. Special events, such as live plays, or classical music coverage, would be another idea.

[Luther Heggs]

The only episodes I've seen are the game show and talk show ones. The talk show ep seems to have rehashed a lot of stuff that was already general knowledge, and the game show ep completely ignored some long running shows like "Family Feud" and "Match Game". Unless I missed something, it also never mentioned "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire"...There could have been some interesting discussion on how that show was killed through overexposure. Another topic they could have touched on was the evolution of reality-based game shows. Heck, they could even do an entire episode on reality TV! I know that as a genre, reality is less than 2 decades old, but it can trace its ancestry to the early days of television with shows like "Candid Camera" and "People Are Funny".

[Orion7]

Unless I missed something, it also never mentioned "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire".

That show was far too new to be covered in a show about television pioneers. They didn't talk about any show beyond the seventies, unless it was running beyond then, so reality TV was also too new. They did talk about The Match Game, though.

I was surprised that Candid Camera wasn't covered. I remember that show being a big deal when I was little. Art Linkletter's show was another one that wasn't mentioned, but was a long-running staple. Perhaps some of those categories will be covered in another season of this show (if there is one).

Edited by Orion7, Feb 1, 2008 @ 7:09 AM.

[Decormaven]

Heck, if the game show segment was going to talk about Chuck Barris, I wanted them to include clips from The Gong Show. What segment would that genre best fit, though? In that same vein, Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts.

[Kev]

Heck, they could even do an entire episode on reality TV!

Please, no.

I was pretty surprised that The Gong Show wasn't included as well.

I love the fact that they included Steve Allen in the talk show ep.

[Raphael delGado]

Is this being re-run, or are they creating new episodes?
Last night I saw Science Fiction on my local PBS station. Kelsey Grammar's voice is a little ponderous for the narration, but the interviews with William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy were a hoot. Shatner comes across like a rehabilitated elder statesman. And film clips of interviews with Rod Serling - always, always with a cigarette.

[Sharpie66]

The Sci-Fi ep was the first of the second season. Next week, it looks like Westerns are on tap--fun!

I loved that they featured a lot of Nichelle Nichols, who is a wonderful role model to have. And Bill Mumy, who is always a stitch to watch in interviews.

[Artistictype]

Just saw this for the first time last night. Fun times!
It's funny how 'the kiss!' from Star Trek has become such a tv legend. I remember seeing that episode for the first time back when I was in middle school, and I don't recall anybody making anything of it.

I might of missed it but did they even touch on 'The Outer Limits?'

[dreamy]

Hey, thanks for the heads up - I didn't realize there was a new season. I hope they re-run that first episode.

ETA: Ah, answered my own question; several re-runs coming up.

Edited by dreamy, Jan 19, 2011 @ 8:35 PM.

[Raphael delGado]

I might of missed it but did they even touch on 'The Outer Limits?'

I'm not sure that they did mention it. Because it was another anthology series, I get it confused with "The Twilight Zone". And they spent a lot of time on The Twilight Zone.
I love that all the early science fiction depended on the writing. Now, it is just special effects.

[Sharpie66]

I love that all the early science fiction depended on the writing. Now, it is just special effects.

I'm guessing you've never watched the Battlestar Galactica reboot, if you think that. Yes, the special effects were occasionally brilliant, but it's the ideas in the show that got it the attention it did. Most sci-fi, at least good sci-fi, is the same.

[Double Down]

It's funny how 'the kiss!' from Star Trek has become such a tv legend. I remember seeing that episode for the first time back when I was in middle school, and I don't recall anybody making anything of it.

"The Kiss" was not the first-first. It was preceded on TV by a kiss between Sammy Davis Jr. and Nancy Sinatra in 1967.

Additionally, I hear the character who played Buckwheat kissed white girls on the Little Rascals/Our Gang comedy shorts (probably during the 1930's). But they were kids at the time so maybe that doesn't really count...lol

Edited by Double Down, Jan 22, 2011 @ 5:24 AM.

[flowerchild]

Is the SF episode typical of this series? Because I was very disappointed and thought they did a terrible job of it, except for the bonus extra at the end. There was a lot of SF television in the 50's (and a bit that was earlier) that was groundbreaking, and I'm sure that some of those folks are still available if only in old interviews. The show was almost all Star Trek and Lost in Space, which were anything but "pioneers". The show mentioned Batman but not Superman, which was the most popular kids TV show for decades AND included a lot more SF (and there are a LOT of interviews available). And I have to admit I was really disappointed that they didn't touch on Rocky Jones, Space Ranger which was rather groundbreaking...it was the first use of a forward view screen, for example (plus, to show my age, it was my introduction to SF television).

[Luther Heggs]

Just saw the Westerns episode...Sad to realize that 4 of the people they interviewed for the show have passed on in the last year (Fess Parker, Peter Graves, Robert Culp and Stephen J. Cannell).

[Raphael delGado]

Seeing interviews with so many folks that had passed away made me wonder how long ago they filmed the footage. Now I'm thinking it is good that somebody decided to interview these folks before it was too late. I don't think I've seem James Arness since the ending of Gunsmoke.
I thought it was interesting that they made the exact same point in this series that they did in the Sci Fi series; it is easier to present a moralistic type of story if it isn't set in the present day. Having it set in the past or the future slips by people's natural defenses.

[Raguel]

I think you mean "natural prejudices."

[Raphael delGado]

I think people have subconscious defenses - any idea that doesn't fit in with the conclusions we've already come to gets filtered out. So putting a situation in the future or past gets by those filters. That is what I meant by "natural defenses".
For the crime drama episode - Mike Connors looks like he's aged really well. He sounds terrific as well. Angie Dickinson looks like she has had some really good work done. Next week is children's shows, so I'm looking forward to that.

Edited by Raphael delGado, Feb 2, 2011 @ 8:29 AM.

[cutecouple]

Seeing interviews with so many folks that had passed away made me wonder how long ago they filmed the footage.

I'm thinking mid 2000's. Still, good to see them.

[cutecouple]

Also, it's a little funny that they didn't use the exact Star Trek theme when talking about the show. If you listen carefully, the notes are just a little off, probably just enough to avoid royalties.

Edited by cutecouple, Feb 5, 2011 @ 3:22 PM.

[Mermaid Under]

Last night's episode was "Prime Time Soaps". I've enjoyed this sporadic series on PBS, but this was one of the weakest. Maybe because I never watched soaps, primetime or otherwise. I don't think I caught one episode of Dallas, Dynasty or Knot's Landing. Larry Hagman, may he rest in peace, might have been good as JR, and may have been a nice person in real life, but in interviews he always came across like a badly written cartoon character. It may well be a deliberate decision on his part, but it isn't interesting. Charlene Tilton was more engaging than Larry.