71 replies to this topic

[publicdefender]

Started the thread...

WOW. That was a powerful episode. That last scene when Nancy burned down her house - well MLP was just amazing. She finally GOT it. The turtles, the conversation with Guillermo, Shane talking to Judah - she finally realized what she had done to her family. When she told Judah "I tried" my eyes were tearing up. She has been avoiding her grief for so long. I am glad she finally owned up to it. If MLP doesn't win the Emmy next time or a Golden Globe again, she will have been robbed.

ANd Celia - RATTED HER OUT! A true evil bitch to the bitter end.

That scene with Conrad - was that the end of their relationship? It certainly seems that way. Hence the reiteration of their differences - Conrad doesn't know The Grateful Dead, he wants a woman who can cook a friend turkey, Nancy barely knows how to microwave, Heylia will never accept her. And Conrad told Heylia "she's nto my girlfriend" when speaking of Nancy. It makes me sad because the two actors have such good chemistry and such a good rapport.

The only funny part was Doug, who was HILARIOUS. Thank goodness for him and his banjo.

I was surprised that Tara wasn't involved in something more sinister...

Edited by publicdefender, Nov 19, 2007 @ 10:38 PM.

[alicesun]

Great, great episode. My favorite parts, were Doug and his banjo! "Jesus freaks! And Nancy burnin' the house down and talking to Judah. Amazing performance from MLP.

Loved the end with the opening credit locations up in flame. Wait... Was... that the season finale?!

[bayareabrad]

How hilarious was it that the firefighter recognized Celia's house from the porn movie that was shot there? "I think 'Peckers of the Carribean' was filmed here"! :)

That was a really nice touch when Nancy was Talking with Guillermo and she couldn't find her house from the hill they were on. It harkens back to the theme song..."Little boxes...and they all look just the same." The whole convo with Guillermo was great and I think she would have got busy with him if she wasn't already invested in Conrad. I hope that Heylia and Velveeta opening a medicinal pot club and saying "goodbye" (according to the synopsis) to Conrad doesn't mean they won't be back next season? Pretty please come back?

Doug's banjo song was awesome and very funny, but Jaysus, that man cannot sing.

Notice how quickly Celia ratted out Nancy? Mmmmmhhhhmmmmm. Great seeing Isabelle again and her convo with Shane (I noticed Shane hasn't really denied accusations that he's making it up) but, man, she looks like she has lost some weight and, unfortunately, looks like she has inherited Celia's bitchiness. Tone it down a notch, hon. Hopefully, she has enough Dean in her to balance it out.

Everytime I see Guillermo Diaz on this show, this show in particular, nudge, nudge, I FULLY expect him to break out Billy Bong Thornton for the MILF weed ha ha.

One of the best of the season.

[Impresario]

I was also touched by tonight's episode. Although I am a little concerned how this show can continue "on the road" with the same cast of characters. MLP was brilliant again, I especially liked the scene with Guillermo. Who knew he was such a soothsayer? And I guess it's over with Conrad, although whatever happened to "opposites attract"? They realized they have nothing in common but marijuana. Celia and Sullivan were true to form in their capacity for betrayal and self-preservation. and I can't decide whether Shane really believes he's talking to his dead dad. Maybe the next season will take place in Pittsburg after all...

[publicdefender]

Does anyone know what song was playing at the end when Nancy was burning her house down? It was beautiful. The lyrics just fit perfectly.

I do believe that Judah was "there" in some capacity - hence all the references to a "sign from God" that it was time to leave and Nancy talking to him at the end.

This show is amazing. It is hilarious and crazy and absurd and then delivers this emotional punch as well.

Edited by publicdefender, Nov 19, 2007 @ 11:02 PM.

[VaVaVoom]

I was surprised that Tara wasn't involved in something more sinister...

I was expecting something big too. I feel like her whole stint on this show was such a waste. Feh. I didn't like her character anyway.

I loved how Guillermo was facing west and not south during his and Nancy's conversation.

[Addien]

Just some thoughts... lots of spoilers.

Hated/loved that Silas immediately understood that Nancy/Guillermo started the fire. He doesn't miss a trick! Shit. Silas is getting way too involved in the business.

Possibly the best scene of the season: Nancy playing along with Shane and talking to Judah about how Shane has to leave the house, acting out the conversation perfectly, including answering him, referring to her hair, etc. And Shane buying it! I suppose he would, that's the most attention Shane's received from Nancy all season!

Loved that Shane knew where the emergency "Earthquake Box" was and Nancy didn't. Loved that Uncle Andy is maturing and was actually a voice of reason for Nancy, not the other way aroundˆ. Loving Uncle Andy telling Nance to stop being a gangsta and start RAISING HER KIDS.

Loved the scene where Nancy and Conrad discuss Thanksgiving dinner but it's really about the future of their relationship. And Nancy whispering that she might "have to leave", admitting it to herself. And Heylia wanting to go legit!

LOVED the conversation between Guillermo and Nancy. Yay, a gangster who actually seems chill/voice-of-reasonish! I loved U-Turn but Guillermo spelled it out for Nancy!

Loved the detail of Nancy not even knowing Shane had owned turtles for over a year.

Hearted Doug's "This is Just Like the Superdome But We're White and Middle Class" song.

LOVED Silas declare, "Yeah, I'm over her," when he sees Tara say that "Jesus made her" rescue the cross.

HATED Celia ratting out Nancy!!!! Goddammit Celia!!! But whatever, it's par for the course for her.

LOVED the scene where the "Little Boxes" song replays over a fiery landscape.

Loved the scene at the end with Nancy whispering "I tried" to the spirit of Judah, tears in her eyes, after she douses her house in oil and lights the match.

Loved, loved, LOVED the ending fade of Nancy riding away in the Segway, house ablaze. Using the fire of her/Guillermo's creation as a baptism, a re-birth.

So.. the DEA is after Nancypants now! WTF is going to happen? Will she go back to Majestic??? Will she move to Pittsburgh? Is she pregnant? Will she be on the lam with her kids?

As a general note, this felt like the final episode of the show, not just the season. BUT! I want to see Nancy get on her feet and make it right. Will she?

[publicdefender]

As a general note, this felt like the final episode of the show, not just the season.

It did feel that way. If Celia hadn't turned Nancy in, it would have been the PERFECT end to the series. Maybe they weren't sure if it would get picked up again? I think Nancy was heading to this the entire season - sort of her "rock bottom" of sorts and her new beginning (unless Celia ruins it - she truly is evil). Nancy couldn't keep going on that reckless, self-destructive path - something major needed to happen. I think she will be on the road for at least the beginning of next season.

As for Heylia and Vaneeta, they could ostensibly be back if they bought from Nancy and/or Conrad - if Nancy and Conrad are still growing/selling. And what about Conrad telling Nancy "we are in this together now"? He changed his tune really quickly. I wonder what will happen to their relationship next season - will they be totally estranged? From the finale it certainly seemed like we may never see Heylia, Vaneeta and Conrad again, but I don't doubt that the writers will find a way to incorporate them into the next season.

Spoilers just in case:
We know Guillermo is coming back, so I think she may end up staying his partner after all.

Edited by publicdefender, Nov 19, 2007 @ 11:57 PM.

[Last Time Lord]

As a general note, this felt like the final episode of the show, not just the season.

I agree. Until Showtime aired did the little promo thing afterwards, I thought it was the series finale.

[luvdave]

The angry firefighter: "Holy shit! I think they filmed 'Peckers of the Caribbean' here!"

Celia's gonna have a hot date.

"Jesus Groff, if I let you stick your finger up my ass, can I get a Porsche?" Ewww, but hee.

Lots of funny stuff this ep.

[frostedglass]

I wonder if this was filmed before producers/writers knew there would be another season, because I agree with a couple of y'all above. It felt like it could have been the series' finale if the show were not to come back.

I'm glad to hear that it is coming back. It's like it stripped everything down and will start over again, which seems ot happen to Nancy a lot. It started with small scale things like her pot crop, then onto the bigger and bigger things like her house and now her family and now whole life.

Edited by frostedglass, Nov 20, 2007 @ 8:02 AM.

[Naked Ambition]

It did seem like a series finale. Since Nancy is starting over again from square one, alot of these characters won't be coming back obviously.

Elizabeth Perkins is one hell of an actress. When she said "nancy botwin" in Roy Till's office, just those two words came across as a lengthy monologue. You could feel the shock,disgust, betrayal, jealousy, and paranoid righteous indignation in those 4 syllables.

I was surprised that Tara wasn't involved in something more sinister...

Agreed. I felt misled by the episode synopsis that said something to the effect that "Silas finally realizes the truth about Tara". What "truth"? That she's a hypocritical brainwashed headcase? Nice of you to join the rest of the class, Master Botwin. At any rate, the cross rescue seemed unnecessary and tacked on.

Speaking of tacked on, when did Isabelle get those sizeable breasts?

Nancy has balls. Regardless of how close the wildfire was, I don't think I could set my own million dollar home and all my possessions on fire and just check out. Was Nancy aware of Celia's being questioned by the authorities? It seemed like she was, but she didn't mention it to Andy.

[Two Dollar Toll]

I liked that Nancy finally made a good decision. I didn't like the depiction of the Christians; this show is better than that. Some Christian must have really hurt Jenji Kohan because to me the scene with the Christians at the evacuee center came off as petty and angry and not well-observed.

[Last Time Lord]

A part of me wishes this was the series finale, because it was the perfect ending.

[Prospero]

Very emotional episode. And strong. However, I'm pretty much disappointed.

I did not like them writing off Tara. It seems like she is going to be thrown out of the story.

Also didn't like the way they treated the Christians, making their prayers look like some demon posessed members of a creepy cult. It was very agressive and offensive, IMO.

Annoyed by Celia turning Nancy in. Plants are in YOUR house, stupid bitch. So, unless you have video records of Nancy and Co doing their dirty business, you better say that you just found some seeds in the yard, then left for a business trip and when you came back, there they were.

Liked:
- Nancy speaking to Judah before burning their house. Very sad indeed.
- Guillermo. Looks like he likes a good chat, huh? And he can speak like a normal (and intelligent) person, wow. Maybe if U-Turn ever tried this, I wouldn't hate him that much.
- Doug with his banjo.
- Isabelle.

All in all, I agree with a B- for this episode. Some very good moments here, but also some less good ones.

[nattygann]

Just noticed that when the grow house is discovered, the firefighter gets a call over his walkie-talkie and says, "The fire just took out the Olive Garden!" Doug must be so happy!

[saltydog3]

I agree that the episode had the feel of a series finale, and that Nancy burning down the house would seem to be a great way to end the show, BUT, to me, the real heart of the show is Nancy trying to adapt to life without her husband and her attempt to take care of her two kids. Although burning down the house might show that Nancy realizes she needs a fresh start, and although she finally paid at least a little bit of attention to Shane, she still hasn't really taken any steps to truly take care of her children. Even if Celia hadn't turned Nancy in, I think there still would have been a lot for the show to explore by showing us how Nancy will ultimately take care of her family.

[simpgeek]

A part of me wishes this was the series finale, because it was the perfect ending.

There is nobody who is a bigger fan of this show than me and I felt the exact same way. I felt like everything was left perfectly untied.

[stillshimpy]

Also didn't like the way they treated the Christians, making their prayers look like some demon posessed members of a creepy cult. It was very agressive and offensive, IMO. -Prospero

I thought it was very interesting, seemingly indicating for those particular people? Jesus is their drug of choice. However, I don't think the show is hard on Christians exactly, but rather very hard on the brand of Christianity that has people retreating entirely into faith and having that act as a huge filter between themselves and reality. Again, I just think the show took a pretty broad swipe at evangelical Christianity, and I did find it amusing. Raised as an Episcopalian here, and a really liberal branch of the Episcopal church at that, it is kind of the difference between God being at your back in all things but you're the person who makes the choices with free will and all that, and having God in front of you at all junctures, where you think you're in a personal conversation with God and He wants you to run into a burning house to grab a church decoration. I'm not trying to slam anyone's faith, this is all my opinion, but I kind of really loved how the series was targeting one specific form of religion and was seemingly asking the questions, "Who's really stoned out of their minds here?"

Moving on, what a great episode. Truly great, and it could have have served as the series finale. The reason the DEA wanted to sweep Agent Peterson under the rug is probably going to hold true for why they won't go after Nancy Botwin. That two second marriage to a DEA agent means that they DEA so does not want to be associated with her. Although, what I think will happen is that Celia's ratting out of Nancy will be the bargaining chip to take Peter's pension out of Nancy's life.

They really struck a fantastic balance with Silas this year, and I really grew to like him. "Shut up and deal like the rest of us." was pretty damned funny, but then he still had teenager logic in having to get his "work". Silas did take a huge step forward with, "Yeah, I'm over her." though. He grew up enough to understand that something being over isn't the end of the world.

ETA: On the subject of "Is Shane really seeing Judah?" I'm pretty sure the answer was "No." but damn, did he ever want to. So, just like retreating into the other things mentioned above, Shane retreated into a comforting mechanism, and it acted as his filter.

The one thing I didn't really get though was what job Guillermo was offering Nancy. What was the significance of "traffic"? I've heard the phrase "drug trafficing" but (and not to sound like an idiot, although I suspect I am being dense here) isn't that just what Nancy's been doing? Being the supplier to multiple dealers is trafficing? Isn't it?

Edited by stillshimpy, Nov 20, 2007 @ 12:26 PM.

[Addien]

I'm wondering if in the next season we'll see Isabelle become more and more like Celia? It was certainly foreshadowed in this ep, what with all her bitchiness. Also, she's visibly skinnier. Will they incorporate her weight loss? Is the actress just losing weight like every other girl in Hollywood?

[stilts]

I think most liberal-minded people are reluctant to criticize the show's portrayal of Christianity, and I was too, but seriously, it's just unrealistic. Unrealistic to think that that type of "speaking in tongues" evangelical Christianity would have cropped up in that part of California in an area with million dollar homes. (Not that the show is altogether realistic anyway...) People (writers, producers) can do what they want but I (an agnostic) am personally offended by Weed's portrayal of Christianity, just as I would be about a similarly exaggerated, one-sided depiction of Judiasm or any other religion.

[clarknt67]

What a great episode, which I did not expect. (I usually cringe at the "it's the big storm/fire/tornado/whatever" eps.)

It really could have been a series finale, imo, and a good one. I felt like Nancy burning her house down was an excellent full circle from the premise of the show, where she decided to do throw all morals and common sense out to hang onto that McMansion.

Where does it go from here? If it had been a series finale, I'd have imagined she'd leave Agrestic, start over somewhere else...

But, seeing as leaving Agrestic would mean no Doug or Celicia or Conrad or Heylia... (or Matt Modine, if his character carries over). That's kind of gutting the best parts of the show. I guess they'll find some way to keep her in Agrestic and in the drug business.

And how dumb is Celia? She fingers Nancy when cops interview her on the pot. All she could have done was say she moved back home with her ex husband, which is true, she has an alibi and there's no proof she was in the house at the same time as as the pot. Matt's character would be the better bet for a getting a conviction. Both Nancy & Celia could have hung it on him.

BTW, anyone else appreciate what a bitch Isabelle was to the driver? I couldn't help thinking how, no matter how much a woman hates her mother, so often they become a carbon copy. LOL. Isabelle's well on track.

[ThatGuamGuy]

"The one thing I didn't really get though was what job Guillermo was offering Nancy. What was the significance of "traffic"? I've heard the phrase "drug trafficing" but (and not to sound like an idiot, although I suspect I am being dense here) isn't that just what Nancy's been doing? Being the supplier to multiple dealers is trafficing? Isn't it?"

What Nancy has been doing could technically qualify as trafficking, in a broad way, but in the common parlance of the trade, I believe that "trafficking" has more to do with transportation. Specifically, transportation over international borders (though probably even crossing state lines would count).

One thing I really enjoy about this show is that each season, things get worse and worse for her, so she digs herself deeper into the drug trade, which causes things to get worse and worse for her. It's interesting the way it started off as a fairly cheery comedy, but Nancy has gotten crazier and crazier the further over her head she gets.

[publicdefender]

I thought it was very interesting, seemingly indicating for those particular people? Jesus is their drug of choice. However, I don't think the show is hard on Christians exactly, but rather very hard on the brand of Christianity that has people retreating entirely into faith and having that act as a huge filter between themselves and reality.

I agree. I don't think the show was targeting Christians in general; it was just making a statement about the types of religious zealots who use their religion as their justification and excuse for everything. Just like the characters who smoke all the time use a drug to numb the pain, religious zealots often use their dogma to create a more palatable reality. All of the characters are in some way involved in self-delusion. And that's the beauty of satire.

I kind of think the whole episode was about religion or spirituality actually. We had Judah or his spirit in some sense, we had Nancy making a "deal with the devil" which in the end was sort of a spiritual rebirth and brilliant irony, and we had Guillermo being zen and wise about the "circle of life". My interpretation was that Judah was there in some sense or that Nancy could feel his presence which is what finally caused her to wake up.

I think the lyrics of the final song, "Keepsake", are in line with this interpretation of death and rebirth and finally acknowledging pain and harsh reality. This is why I found the finale so brilliant. For me, it was very layered and went much deeper than last year's finale.

[clarknt67]

things get worse and worse for her, so she digs herself deeper into the drug trade

That's why, like other's have said, it WOULD be cool for this to have been a series finale, it that, it seemed like her head finally wrapped around the Karma idea.

Somehow, since she got in it, she just gets more an more seriously in it. She marries a guy who get murdered, she tries to defend her business and her family burns her town to the ground. I'd like to think it finally sunk in...

Maybe the DEA will use Celia's accusation to force Nancy to work as an undercover informant on Guillermo next season? Then she'll still be in the drug trade, but with one foot in each camp?

[VaVaVoom]

Every time I see a person riding a segway, I bust out laughing. I guess Arrested Development ruined segways for me. So Nancy riding on her segway in the final scene had me in stitches!

[attica finch]

Pete Seeger is in a way an obvious choice to do "Little Boxes", but I love it. He's a generational voice of poignant scolding. Using the title credits with fires ablaze and no 'just the same' inhabitants? Awesome. Those empty swings gave me shiivers.

When Nancy's 'talking' to Judah, I adored her telling him she hadn't really changed her hair, she'd just stopped straightening it. Nice callback, and a typically girly thing to do.

[Sister Magpie]

I think most liberal-minded people are reluctant to criticize the show's portrayal of Christianity, and I was too, but seriously, it's just unrealistic. Unrealistic to think that that type of "speaking in tongues" evangelical Christianity would have cropped up in that part of California in an area with million dollar homes. (Not that the show is altogether realistic anyway...) People (writers, producers) can do what they want but I (an agnostic) am personally offended by Weed's portrayal of Christianity, just as I would be about a similarly exaggerated, one-sided depiction of Judiasm or any other religion.

Are they really to be expected to be showing a non-exaggerated, non-one-sided depiction of religion? They weren't saying anything about Christianity--which is a huge faith with many sects. They were created one specific group who had their own community. People do speak in tongues, they do push all the things we saw them pushing, they do do crazy things. Many people on the show are over the top. Introducing a group of regular people who happen to be different denominations of Christianity wouldn't exactly fit in with the show.

I don't know whether a speaking in tongues sect could show up in California amongst wealthy people or not, but it just seems odd to even consider this any sort of last word that the show is trying to make on Christianity as a whole. And I can't really see why religious fanatics should be off-limits for satire when other things aren't. Ironically, I'd say that there are plenty of things that are produced by the kind of people the show was satirizing that make them come off far worse than Weeds did. Making them look silly to non-believers by speaking in tongues is pretty gentle--I would think people who do pray in tongues are proud for other people to see them doing it. (I once had a stranger do it for me over the phone--unasked!)

[iMissEthan]

Earlier this month I saw a great documentary about Pete Seeger called The Power of Song that featured his version of Little Boxes. I started singing along, and my boyfriend asked me where I knew the song from (he's not a TV watcher). When I told him it was the theme song from Weeds, he was very impressed.

I really liked the season finale, but I hope the strike ends soon so they can start filming next season before Shane gets taller than his mom. I swear I could see his moustache start to come in on camera.