219 replies to this topic

[bookwrm74]

This thread has existed in the Buffy forums for ages, though since I'm kind of slow on the uptake, I only discovered it yesterday ;) The basic rules are that one person poses a thought-provoking or just plain fun question about any aspect of GG he/she chooses, offering, say, three to six possible answers. The questions can run the gamut from: 'which of Lorelai's boyfriends other than Luke would you most want to date?' to 'which of the following episodes cheers you up the most' to 'which of the following statements do you feel best reflected GG's depiction of socioeconomic class?'
For the 24 hours or so after the question is first posed, other posters pick their answers and explain why. For those who like to keep track of which answers received the most support, it helps if you write your name under the appropriate response so that everyone can cut and paste that section in every post. Here's an example:

Question: Which statement best describes how you guys feel about Rory's evolution as a character from S1 to S7?

Choices:

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher

2) I didn't feel she changed much: I always adored and related to her

3) I didn't feel she changed much: I never could stand the pampered, passive little twit

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman


I would then explain why I chose whichever response (remember, just pick whichever choice comes closest to summing up your views: no poll will perfectly capture your beliefs, and if we allowed 'other' as a choice than practically all of us would pick that every round!). After I finished babbling about why I chose one response and didn't choose the other three, I'd write 'bookwrm74' under whichever response I selected so that whoever goes next can add his/her name under the relevant choice and after 24 hours we can see which choice most of us picked.

I hope you guys enjoy this. I can honestly say that in the Buffy forums this thread has not only been highly entertaining, but has also sparked some of the very best, most insightful conversations I've ever seen about that show.

Why don't we start with the Rory one that I used above? After 24 hours or so, the polls will 'close' on my question, and whoever feels like it will ask the new one. Have fun!

Edited by bookwrm74, Nov 9, 2007 @ 1:46 AM.

[bellamn16]

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman

However, on the way, she went through the stage that is choice #1. There was definitely a time during the show when Rory wasn't very likeable or respectable. I regained respect for her through season 7 and was left with a good feeling about who she'd become.

Choices:

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher

2) I didn't feel she changed much: I always adored and related to her

3) I didn't feel she changed much: I never could stand the pampered, passive little twit

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman
bellamn16

[bookwrm74]

However, on the way, she went through the stage that is choice #1. There was definitely a time during the show when Rory wasn't very likeable or respectable. I regained respect for her through season 7 and was left with a good feeling about who she'd become.

You make a good point, and I certainly saw more of 'classic Rory' in S7 than I did through S5 and S6. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to make me overlook the character assassination job they did to her overall, and it remains my biggest disappointment about the series. The MarriedDean-sleeping, yacht-stealing and Yale-eschewing was ghastly enough, but where in the world did this girls' personality go? And I still never quite bought that the Rory we knew and loved would date a guy like Logan, especially before he was (ew) 'tamed' by her. She was worshipped and beloved more and more as the series progressed, but with less and less reason to be IMO. So, on the whole:

Choices:

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher
bookwrm74

2) I didn't feel she changed much: I always adored and related to her

3) I didn't feel she changed much: I never could stand the pampered, passive little twit

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman
bellamn16

[SqueegieB]

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher

I do think there are elements of #4, particularly in the latter part of season 7, in the development of Rory's character, but I still believe that she changed too much. She went from being my favorite character on the show (and the one who drew me in in the first place) to the almost unrecognizable anti-Rory. I found it very difficult to believe, as well as stomach, that she would be so drawn to a world of such pretense and superficiality when she was always depicted as being a much more substantive character. I don't mean this to sound like having money automatically makes for a shallow life, but Rory's life did take a sharp turn in that direction, especially in contrast to her previous goals and aspirations. Richard's realization that she was becoming a different person during her 21st birthday party was a perfect summing up of the path she was on and the possibility that her potential along with much of what made Rory such a special character to begin with was in jeopardy. This "arc" may have ended somewhat successfully at the end of the series, but for too long Rory's character was in question.

Choices:

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher
bookwrm74
SqueegieB

2) I didn't feel she changed much: I always adored and related to her

3) I didn't feel she changed much: I never could stand the pampered, passive little twit

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman
bellamn16

[cookie jar]

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher

The Rory of mid-season 4 until the end of season 6 was not the Rory I had come to love. I liked her in season 7 again but I can't pick 4) because I don't think she was "an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl." I may could have been okay with her changes after the Dean fiasco at the end of season 5 if she stayed at Yale. The whole Huntzberger drama was so un-Rory that I wasn't sure if the writers even knew the Rory character.

Choices:

1) I feel she went from an awesomely relatable, quietly determined, proud introvert to a relatively unlikable, status conscious, terminally bland cipher
bookwrm74
SqueegieB
cookie jar

2) I didn't feel she changed much: I always adored and related to her

3) I didn't feel she changed much: I never could stand the pampered, passive little twit

4) I feel she went from an overly sheltered, mousy Mama's Girl to a fabulously accomplished, independent young woman
bellamn16

[bookwrm74]

Okay, I'm giving this another try :)

Which five characters would you like to have seen more of, and why? Major characters don't count, but you can mention either minor characters or even characters who we never met but you wish we could have (e.g., the elusive Mr. Kim!)

I need another couple of minutes to think about who's on my list and why, but I'm pretty sure the awesome Dave Rygalski will make it. Conversely, April and Colin/Finn are on the list of minor characters I wish we'd seen a lot less of!

Edited by bookwrm74, Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:01 AM.

[Robinpoppins]

Ok, here we are, in no particular order:

1. Marty (Original Recipe, not the Stalker Marty of S7): He was sweet and funny and it was nice to see Rory have a platonic male friend for a change. I would've loved to have seen their friendship grow more.
2. Emily's sister (Hope, I think): We met Richard's mother, but how did we go 7 years without meeting someone from Emily's family? I just thought it would be interesting to see the dynamic between the sisters and to get a little insight into Emily's background and upbringing.
3. Gypsy: I think just because I have an unhealthy obsession with all that is Gypsy. Gypsy's sarcasm and wisecracks were always the highlight of town meetings/events for me. I would take her over all the other townies any day.
4. Mrs. Gleason: Forget Mr. Kim (I'm still convinced he's the Asian guy that works at Luke's), I need to meet the woman that birthed many a Gleason and required holes cut into her pants for her knees to go through.
5. Alex: After Luke and Digger, he is number 3 on my list of Favorite Boyfriends of Lorelai Gilmore. He was nice, extremely attractive, understood what being a single parent entailed, and took the time to get to know Sookie and Jackson (for crying out loud). The same really can't be said for Max or Digger.

Five people I would've liked to see less of: Madeline, Louise, Taylor, Finn, and either Lucy or Olivia (or both, they were equally irritating)

[veritykindle85]

Ooh! This looks like fun. In no particular order, though the first two are my top 2 picks:

1. Dave Rygalski. I still consider him my favorite Gilmore Girls male love interest. He was clever, funny, and clearly crazy about Lane, given the elaborate lengths he went to in order to date her and perform with her in the band. And yeah, his willingness to engage in these charades may not have been the best thing for all concerned, but I think it was what Lane felt was best, at that point in time; the truth would have come out sooner or later anyway. (Whatever happened after that phone call in K!M!, anyway?) Besides which, it provided for scenes like "This Bible belongs to God, but is being used by Dave Rygalski" and the whole reading-the-Bible-in-one-night storyline. And Mrs. Kim's outing Dave as a Christian musician in front of Zach and Brian.

It's all well and good that Adam Brody went on to bigger things, but it was such a shame that it meant Dave was essentially forgotten, and Lane was sacrificed to Zach because she was required to end up with a bandmate. (And I liked Zach okay in S7, but still.)

2. Marty, as in, the NotCreepy!Marty we saw in S4 and 5. Marty was a little socially awkward and had such a nice dry wit going on, so he was completely my male TV character type, heh. He could have served as such a nice, grounded friend for Rory to counterbalance all the lunatics she actually spent most of her time with at Yale. And while there was a part of me that would have rather liked something romantic to develop there, it really would have just been wonderful to see her have a long-term platonic male friend, no romantic feelings involved; heaven knows most of my college friends were guys, and nothing ever happened there.

3. Brian. Honestly, if ASP found it necessary to keep Lane's life true to Helen Pai's by having her fall in love with and marry a bandmate (and, obviously, if Dave became unavailable, as he did), I would have preferred Brian to Zach. Sweet, dorky, and he thought her name would work in a song!

4. Wouldn't have thought of this without reading Robinpoppins post, but -- Hopie. It's a travesty that we never got any insight into Emily's family life beyond the reference in L&W&S. How can a show that's ostensibly about mothers and daughters exist for 7 seasons without ever delving into the family background of one of these mothers? What was their upbringing like? Was Hope a Lorelai-type, and did this color Emily's issues with her daughter? Were there any family-based reasons for Trix's undying prejudice against Emily? So many questions.

5. Rachel. Given my relatively low level of investment in the L/L romance (I prefer the flirtatious friendship of the earlier seasons), I could have gotten into seeing a longer-term Luke/Rachel relationship, or, say, having her return in S3 instead of introducing Nicole. It might have been interesting to have this character who was a Stars Hollow native, but had seen the world and was now approaching the town from something of an outsider's perspective (nicely illustrated, I think, when she's walking around photographing the Firelight Festival). Granted, the actress retired from acting not long after her time on Gilmore Girls, so retaining her or bringing her back would have necessitated a recast, so, eh. But there was potential in that character.

Edited by veritykindle85, Nov 29, 2007 @ 7:20 PM.

[bookwrm74]

I love the answers so far, as you'll be able to tell by the fact that I'll be shamelessly copying many of them ;)

I'm realizing that this list is different from what my 'favorite minor characters' list would be. For example, I adore Michel and would probably rank him first or second on my 'favorite characters not named Gilmore' list, but I rather like the amount of him that we got and can't honestly say I'd want him to have all that much more screen time.

1. Digger---He's my favorite of any significant other to appear on the show with the possible exception of Dave Rygalski. In many ways, he was the quintessential GG character: quirky, witty, highly intelligent, self-deprecating and likable despite being neurotic and flawed. I agree that he and Lorelai didn't have much physical chemistry, but as a character, I seriously adored Digger and wish he'd been around for longer than just one season.


2. Marty---Before he became worthy of a restraining order and intensive psychiatric treatment, he was extremely likable, relatable and witty. I wish so much that Rory's life at Yale had involved more of Marty and those type of people rather than prancing around with the Life and Death Brigade.

3. Brian---Brian just brings out the "awwww...." in me. Much like Marty, I felt he was one of the most endearing, relatable characters on the show. If AS-P was that intent on making Lane get together with one of her bandmates, I wish it had been sweet-natured Brian rather than IMO pathetic poseur XZach.

4. Hopie---I really agree with the reasons you guys already listed. I spent most of the series hoping to be able to muster up more sympathy and understanding for Emily, and I think seeing more of her family and learning more about her childhood would have gone a long way towards helping me top do that.

5. I was tempted to put Dave Rygalski here, but while I *loved* him and felt he made every scene he was in, I'm not sure that I would have needed to see much more of him. I know that doesn't make sense, but I'm just not sure where else they could have taken his character, particularly as it was already just a little too perfect and didn't have much room for growth! So instead I'll give this spot to Alex. ITA that he seemed attractive, funny and genuinely nice. It would be nice if we could have at least had enough scenes with him to see why he and Lorelai did and didn't 'click', etc.

I'll be back tomorrow with the five characters I wish we'd seen less of, though everyone else should feel free to start on that list now. I just need more time to decide which of the many minor characters I hated will make the list!

[SqueegieB]

Great topic!

Definitely some overlap with other answers, but here goes (in no particular order)...

1. Gypsy -- I love every scene Gypsy's ever been in. She's one of the most underused comedic actors on the show and I think that the possibilities for including her in more townie activities were endless.

2. Dave Rygalski -- I think I understand what you mean, bookwrm, but I loved the character so much that I would have been thrilled to see him more. He understood Lane in a way that we rarely saw others understand her. He was almost like a male Rory in that he just accepted all the craziness that went along with Lane's constant subterfuge and went to great lengths to spend time with her. I adored Dave. Plus, Bible Kiss Bible is a really great band name.

3. Mrs. Kim -- In so many ways Mrs. Kim could have been so ridiculous as to be completely one dimensional, but Emily Kuroda brought so much more to the character that I loved anytime we got any glimpse into Mrs. Kim's world. Goofing off reading Shakespeare, all the little reveals that showed how much she loved music too, finding out that Mrs. Kim has her own Mrs. Kim -- all excellent moments. I also really like any scene between Lorelai and Mrs. Kim, as there was really a grudging respect on both sides that I always enjoyed.

4. Marty -- Marty had so much potential, as others have already mentioned, to be a friend to Rory in a much different way than Lane or Paris. He was just a normal college guy that Rory liked hanging out with and whether he would have made a good love interest for her is beside the point, IMO. I just think it would have been nice to see Rory establish a friendship at Yale that would have stood the test of time -- there's no way Rory will still be friends with Lucy and Olivia, but the possibility was there with Marty.

5. Babette -- I *heart* Babette. I know some people felt she was too shrill and annoying, but I always adored her character. I think one of the main reasons I always enjoyed her is her interaction with Lorelai and Rory. She's a huge busybody and definitely over-the-top, but her affection for the girls is always evident and one of the reasons why I think she's a more fleshed out character. Also, she and Morey together are gold.

Almost made it to the list: Morey -- I almost added him, but then I realized that much of Morey's appeal lies in his mystique. Having more revealed would have made him less of the Morey I loved.

Characters I would have loved to see less of: T.J., Liz, Colin, Finn, and April

[bookwrm74]

Characters I would have loved to see less of: T.J., Liz, Colin, Finn, and April

I'm actually struggling to narrow down the IMO rather large pool of unlikable characters I wish we'd seen less of and might just have to cheat by extending the list and/or having many ties! So far, I've got (in no particular order) Louise, Max, Dean, Liz, T.J., Logan, Colin, Finn, April, Lucy, Olivia and (*ducks from cyber tomatoes*) Emily. And that's not even taking into account the off-the-charts grating capabilities of Kirk and Taylor or the fact that Sookie and Babette both kind of make me want to bang my head against the nearest wall.

Edited by bookwrm74, Nov 30, 2007 @ 10:27 AM.

[veritykindle85]

Maybe those characters who came as a pair can be listed as one? Because I know I'd have Colin+Finn and Lucy+Olivia on my list. Though Liz and T.J. are slightly more separate entities. Then I'd have to throw Dean in there, too, particularly for any and all appearances past TSGDT, when he had long outworn his usefulness.

Actually, I'm not sure I have any good reason for wanting less of any of these characters beyond the fact that they annoyed me to no end.

[bookwrm74]

I'm not sure I have any good reason for wanting less of any of these characters beyond the fact that they annoyed me to no end.

Hey, that's more than good enough for me ;) I never get sick of ranting against some of them. And, sure, let's say that the ones who came as siamese twins (Lousie-Madeline, Lucy-Olivia and Finn-Colin) can count as one. This is especially fitting as none of the people listed above seemed to have more than half a brain anyway.

Edited by bookwrm74, Dec 2, 2007 @ 12:19 PM.

[Taryn74]

This is especially fitting as none of the people listed above seemed to have more than half a brain anyway.

Ha! You said a mouthful, sister.

Characters I would have liked to have seen more of:

1. Gypsy - My love for Gypsy knows no bounds. If for nothing else, the "I miss my home" scene where she intentionally breaks Dean's windshield wipers so she can have something to fix to get him out of there is pure gold. Hee, hee, and hee!

2. Liz - I know, I know. But as hippy dippy ditzy as she was, I will always love Liz. I learned so much about Luke through just his interactions with Liz. And nobody will ever be able to convince me, no matter how hard you try *G* that Liz wasn't acting in Jess' best interests by sending him to Stars Hollow when she realized she was failing him as a parent. (I loved TJ for Liz, but he's not necessarily someone I would like to see more of onscreen, so I'm going to leave him off my list.)

3. Mrs. Kim - I don't think there was a single scene Mrs. Kim was ever in that didn't at least make me snicker, if not outright ROFL. Even the poignant scene where she tells Lane she's going to have to move out of the house if she wants to live with her own rules had a laughable part (Cookie Monster being one of the seven deadly sins). I agree with Squeegie that EK brought such a richness to Mrs. Kim, she made her a real person and not just a freak brought out for laughs.

4. Marty - for all the reasons everyone else already said.

5. Babette - because that little sandpaper voiced sex kitten cracked me UP.


Characters I would have liked to have seen (much) less of:

1. Louise - Hate. Other than the few times she was ribbing Paris which made me laugh, I have no use whatsoever for Louise. I kind of love Madeline though. I like that she always tried to be nice to Rory even when the others weren't.

2. Colin and Finn - Hate. Hate. Hate.

3. Nicole - BORing.

4. Alex - BORing. (Sorry guys!)

5. Jason as Lorelai's boyfriend - I would have loved Jason if he had been brought in as anything other than a love interest. He had quirks that I hated, but he was FUNNY and once he grew the beard in, fairly easy on the eyes. But as Lorelai's boyfriend, blech.

[bookwrm74]

Love the list, Taryn, though you know seeing Jason on there hurts my Digger-loving heart ;)

My list of characters I'd like to have seen a lot less of:

1. Logan---He tops the list not because I hated him more than any other character, but because he was such a major part of the last few seasons that his presence was much more show-ruining for me than, say, Louise, whom I loathe but who only showed up periodically. In S5, Logan was a smarmy, snobby, insufferably smug playboy. I would have appreciated Logan's purpose as a character if Rory had slept with him and the storyline then became about any or all of the following: Rory realizing that not everyone she's ever been attracted to is 'boyfriend' material but that maybe she's not the type who's cut out for one night stands; that the thing about girls being able to change and 'tame' a playboy is generally myth rather than reality; that she didn't feel as comfortable around Logan's 'Life and Death Brigade' friends and lifestyle, which then influenced the way she navigated between her Lorelai/SH world and her Emily/Richard/'high society' world for the remainder of the series.
Instead, Logan just became a dull, generic boyfriend, simply another guy who---say it with me if you know it---worshipped at the altar of Rory Gilmore.

2. Max--Smarmy, dull, total waste of screen time, and IMO about as much spark and compatibility with Lorelai as Luke had with Nicole. (Which is to say virtually none...see the below rant on Nicole!). I almost never enjoyed any of his scenes, and when I did it was *despite* the fact that he was in them. I never for a second thought they'd end up getting married, so that entire storyline was IMO drawn out and suspense-free. I never knew enough about Max to care about him as an individual character as opposed to just 'Lorelai's significant other', and what little we did see in the way of an actual personality rubbed me the wrong way.

3. Nicole---Again, it's not simply that I dislike the character (though I do), but the affect she had on other characters and the storylines. Luke impulsively marrying this woman while drunk on a cruise was IMO totally out of character, and their subsequent 'marriage' was a joke that IMO reflected poorly on both characters. Plus, at least with other interim significant others like Rachel and (IMO!) Digger, you could somewhat see what Luke or Lorelai liked about them, had in common with them, etc. What little we knew about the haughty, vaguely unpleasant Nicole IMO made her laughably ill-suited for Luke in every way, and I couldn't for a second buy into the idea that they'd even have gone on one date, let alone marry.

4. Dean---Even back in S1, when most loved him, I thought he was totally bland and devoid of all personality. He epitomized 'generic teen boyfriend' for me. Then, by S2 and S3, I thought he became jealous, clingy and permanently sulky and petulant while still retaining the total dullness of S1. And then he reappears in S4 to give us IMO the beginning of Rory's character assassination, and inexplicably sticks around for part of S5 just to remind us of...what, exactly? Instead of using this ridiculous affair to explore the idea that we often idealize our first loves but that the reality often doesn't measure up when we actually reunite with them, we get endless reminders of how chemistry-free and dull they are together. Even worse, there are gross insinuations that, as a mere 'blue collar townie', Dean is no longer "good enough" for the supposedly classy Rory. Please.

5. Three-way tie: Liz/TJ, Lousie/Madeline and Colin/Finn. I hate them all, found every single one of these pairs far more grating than even mildly amusing, and tend to lunge for the fast forward button every time they appear. I do agree with Taryn, however, that Madeline was slightly more tolerable than Louise.

Edited by bookwrm74, Dec 2, 2007 @ 12:46 PM.

[Robinpoppins]

I don't know if this follows the rules of this game/discussion, but I would like to pose a new question. Booky and I were discussing this a few weeks ago during a 20 Qs round and I was just interested in what other people had to say about it. So, without further ado, the new question: In what order would you rank all seven seasons of Gilmore Girls? Why would you put the seasons in this order?

And, here's my ranking:

1. Season 2: I believe this is the strongest season overall and even the episodes that may be considered "duds" are still extremely enjoyable (for example, 'Secrets and Loans' will never make my favorite episodes list but I absolutely adore the scene where Lorelai wakes up happy in the morning and then falls through her porch, with 'Que Sera Sera' playing in the background). The storylines, for the most part, felt organic, from Lorelai breaking off her engagement, to the introduction of Jess, to the Christopher relapse. And, if I need any more confirmation, episodes from this season, more than any other, are taking up space on my iPod.

2. Season 4: I'll admit that's certainly not the strongest season, but its the season with most of my favorite episodes (the trilogy, 'In the Clamour and the Clangor,' 'The Incredible Sinking Lorelais,' 'The Lorelais First Day at Yale,' 'The Reigning Lorelai,' and 'The Fundamnetal Things Apply, just to name some of them). I don't know how to explain it, but I love this season. I love Luke and Lorelai and the subtle and not so subtle hints that the season would end with them together. I love The Dragonfly. I love Digger (yes, I admit it). I love seeing Rory in college. And, I must confess that if I fast-forward through every Rory/Dean scene, Raincoats and Recipes is a damn good episode.

3. Season 1: I love this season for reasons of pure nostalgia and whimsy. The very first episode of GG I watched was "The Lorelais First Day at Chilton," and, man, what an episode to start on. I love seeing the early relationships, especially Lorelai and Emily and Sookie and Jackson. I still feel that the pilot is one of the strongest pilots I have ever seen. I just have a lot of love for this season.

4. Season 5: The critics may have loved it, but its only midway on my list. Overall, it is a strong season. This was the first season I saw live (I never got the WB where I grew up, so I started watching the repeats on ABC Family when I moved away for college), so it holds a lot of memories for me. The romantic and shipper in me loved the Luke and Lorelai storyline. However, more than season 4, this was the season where I started zoning out on Rory storylines and no longer recognized the character I loved. Other than that, I was pretty satisfied with it.

5. Season 3: I know this is certainly an unpopular opinion, but season three just doesn't do it for me. There are episodes I love, of course ('They Shoot Gilmore, Don't They?' and 'A Tale of Poes and Fires,' to name a couple). But the rest of the season is just eh for me. The Chilton stuff became dull and redundant for me by the time season 3 rolled around. Then, there was Nicole. And Max (again). The things I loved about Jess in season 2 seemed to completely disappear by the end of this season. I really don't have a complelling argument about why I dislike this season, but to go by the iPod space meter, season 3 surprisingly takes up the least amount of space on my iPod (I think that I even put more episodes from Season 6, but I don't know why).

6. Season 7: I spent the first half of the season dreading Tuesday nights, and then when the season finally found its footing, the show ended for good. The writing (for good reason) was off in the beginning. This season contains the only episode that I still choose not to watch (French Twist). The Christopher and Lorelai scenes were excrutiating to watch. I was ridiculously tired of Logan. Luke and April scenes weren't that enjoyable. But, I have to say that around "I'd Rather Be in Philadelphia," I started to love the season. Which is why it ranks above season 6. The Rory I loved made a reappearance and Luke and Lorelai were back to people I loved and related to again. I also think that DR had a knack for writing for the secondary characters (if only he could've worked that magic on Lorelai or Rory).

7. Season 6: There isn't much to say about this one. It just didn't work. Storylines were beyond contrived. There was so much that could've been done instead of bringing in the long lost daughter, and I will never understand why ASP and the writing team decided to go in this direction. Luke wasn't Luke. Rory still wasn't Rory. Lorelai wasn't Lorelai. It just didn't work. Period.

[bellamn16]

In what order would you rank all seven seasons of Gilmore Girls? Why would you put the seasons in this order?

#1: Season One. It's the original, and nothing's ever as good as the original. It established the characters and all their quirks. It's where we learned of Lorelai's coffee addiction, Luke's crush, the girls' obsession with pop culture (and food), and how cold Lorelai's world with her parents could be. Sure, it had a lot of inconsistencies as ASP & Co. tweaked things (like Kirk's name, the entry into the living room, etc), but those inconsistencies were how the show found its way and became a unique classic.

#2: Season Four. I know a lot of people disliked this season as it aired, but I was fortunate enough to watch the entire season over just a few days, and I absolutely loved it. I actually think they did a good job of balancing Rory's college life and Lorelai's world. Some of my favorite L&L moments happen in this season...before their waltz (and I loved everything in the last two episodes). It was also the first time we got a clear picture of Lorelai's real feelings toward Luke, as hinted in the season premiere, ItCatC, and others.

#3: Season Five. Luke & Lorelai. What can I say? I'm a sucker for them...and Say Something, OMG...runner-up to only the Pilot as my favorite episode. The acting (by everyone)...the dream sequence...just supurb.

#4: Season Two. This is very close to season five in rank. For the same reasons as season one, I like season two. It branched off the first season and polished off the quirkiness, the pop culture, and the different family and friend dynamics that consist throughout the show's entire run. Unfortunately, some of the episodes are a little mundane. Hence, the lower ranking.

#5: Season Three. This season had some gems for me. The hug-a-world scene, They Shoot Gilmores, Rory's graduation, Lorelai's birthday, Poes, and a couple other episodes stand out. However, there were also some episodes that to this day I don't even know the title to because they were so insignificant. IMO, the season as a whole lacked a focus. There wasn't much in place to hold the show together from week to week, and the episodes felt more like independent short stories instead of a novel, which is how I usually think of a season of a TV show.

#6: Season Seven. This is very close to season three in rank. It had some stand-out episodes: TLM, SSS, and JLRAB, to name a few. I actually felt the writing from eppy to eppy was okay. Unfortunately, some storyline choices that were made before the season even started were intolerable. However, what season seven lacked in accomplishing storyline-wise, it made up for with big moments. It also, in the second half, got back to what this show is supposed to be about: Lorelai's relationship with her daughter, family, and friends.

#7: Season Six. It started out great. Fight Face is one of my favorite episodes ever. It also had some gems later on. FNAFF stands out for me. Unfortunately, Luke's "secret" and then Lorelai's reaction to his distance was a total turn-off. By the time I get past JLGAG I can hardly muster the strength to get through the rest of the episodes. And if I can't get through season six, it's hard to muster up the strength to watch season seven. That's a shame...because there are parts of season seven I absolutely love.

I don't know how to explain it, but I love this season. I love Luke and Lorelai and the subtle and not so subtle hints that the season would end with them together.

I feel the exact same way! Season 4 is the season I love, even though I'm not sure why.

Season 3: I know this is certainly an unpopular opinion, but season three just doesn't do it for me. There are episodes I love, of course ('They Shoot Gilmore, Don't They?' and 'A Tale of Poes and Fires,' to name a couple). But the rest of the season is just eh for me.

Again, I feel the exact same way. It's like it's lacking the personal touch that makes you feel emotionally invested in the other seasons.

Edited by bellamn16, Dec 18, 2007 @ 9:59 PM.

[Bookwormrach]

I'll rank them in groups, simply because, on any given day, either season 1, 2, or 4 is my favorite season.

Level one: 1, 2, and 4

I love season one because I think all episodes are expertly crafted. I once turned on the basically unmemorable Kill Me Now and I was surprised by how clever [but not trying too hard/mean-spirited] all the dialogue was AND how all the scenes fit so well together. Also, this season is a wonderful introduction into Stars Hollow, has some amazing episodes (Rory's Birthday Parties, Love and War and Snow), and I'm never really angry at any of the plotlines/characters (save for the agitating Paris is Burning.)

I love season two because this is when the Girls really perfected their formula. Although I'm not a huge fan of Jess (and I hated the lame Jess/Dean battles), his addition had an interesting (and organic) impact on several characters. The dialogue is even snappier and more pop culture based (but not over-the-top like in season 6) and I just love so many of the plotlines this season. Lorelai deciding to not marry Max, Rory/Chilton (but not the awful plots like the ones in season 3), Sookie/Jackson, more Paris, Lorelai/Emily, etc.

I love season 4 because it contains the majority of my favorite episodes. Also, I love Rory's first year at Yale (almost everything about it, especially Marty and the addition of the Yale Daily News.) I love the story of Luke/Lorelai here, and I love seeing Rory make it on her own.

Second level: Season 3 and Season 5

I rank these two seasons together because they are similar in two respects: While they both produced the truly outstanding episodes of the series such as They Shoot Gilmores, Don't They? and Say Something, they also had many boring/frustrating plots [the intensifying of the Dean/Jess mess; the awful way Jess left the show; the Rory/Dean affair; the beginnings of the Rory/Logan relationship, etc.] that I just don't want to watch as much. However, I believe that these are the two seasons (save season one) when the show got the most buzz, so that's interesting...


Third level: Season 7

I can't rank seasons 6 and 7 together because, with the exception of a few episodes (specifically, Go Bulldogs and French Twist) I feel season 7 really had the heart, just not all of the Gilmorean wit. I really like Rory and Rory/Logan this season (which was not the case in seasons 5-6), not to mention the lack of biting, unnecessary Daniel Palladino-esque humor of seasons 5-6. Although I had some issues with how things we're handled (the April/Anna/Luke storyline was one that bugged), I looked forward to watching season 7 episodes and I adored Bon, Voyage.

Fourth level: Season 6

Although it has some wonderful episodes (such as 21 or The Prodigal Daughter Returns), I just can't watch a season 6 episode as much as other ones. I know it's too often said to say it now, but so many season 6 episodes are depressing and frustrating (although I do think Partings was a good episode and I prefer the second half of the season to the first half.)

Edited by Bookwormrach, Dec 18, 2007 @ 10:56 PM.

[bellamn16]

(although I do think Partings was a good episode and I prefer the second half of the season to the first half.)

I think Partings is such a well-written and supurbly acted episode, and I love it for that. It's just so hard to watch.

[Starhviewer]

Season 4 was my favorite even with the Luke/Nicole pathetic marriage/dating/marriage/divorce. One of my favorite scenes is Luke telling Lorelai about marrying Nicole. Lorelai's reaction was great. Luke being oblivious to Lorelai's reaction was something that surprised me. I guess even then ASP was setting Luke up to not understand or "see" Lorelai's reaction to what was happening in their private lives. Anyway, this is my favorite season.

Season 1 had the L/R relationship which drew me in and I enjoyed watching Rory during this season. I also enjoyed the L/L diner friendship too.

Season 5 because we had L/L. If I'd still cared about Rory, this season wouldn't have ranked as high, but I'd lost interest in her so I liked this season.

Season 2 and 3 were about equal for me. I never "got" what Lorelai found attractive so having Lorelai not marry Max and then throwing Max back in a couple of times to what ... tease Lorelai? was something that just confused me.

Season 7 because Lorelai finally (I think) removed the albatross from her neck and rejected Christopher. Even with that, Season 7 spent wayyyyy too much time on the L/C relationship.

Season 6 because it just never should have been. Neither Lorelai nor Luke were in character during this season so it seemed to me that I was watching another show with LG and SP playing AU characters - kinda like an epiosde of the Twilight zone that went on for too long.

And I have to agree with this sentiment from the previous discussion:

4. Wouldn't have thought of this without reading Robinpoppins post, but -- Hopie. It's a travesty that we never got any insight into Emily's family life beyond the reference in L&W&S. How can a show that's ostensibly about mothers and daughters exist for 7 seasons without ever delving into the family background of one of these mothers? What was their upbringing like? Was Hope a Lorelai-type, and did this color Emily's issues with her daughter? Were there any family-based reasons for Trix's undying prejudice against Emily? So many questions.

Since the show was about the mother/daughter relationship, it would have helped to know what motivated Emily to be the way she was in her relationship with her only child. I never understood Emily's motivation/reactions or being so it might have been nice to she how she related to her sister. It might have shed light on the character of Emily and might have humanized her somewhat.

[Taryn74]

I'm stealing Rach's grouping idea because there is simply no way I can put my favorite seasons above each other.

So....

Favorite seasons: 1, 2, 3

Season 1 - I love Season 1 because we are introduced to all the characters that I love so much (or love to hate so much - Dean Forrester I'm looking at you), there are some truly amazing eps, there is a good mixture of normal life drama that people can actually relate to along with the fun and love that day to day life brings along, and each episode has something in it that makes me laugh out loud.

Season 2 - I love Season 2 because the episodes really grow in their richness and pleasure in viewing, we are introduced to Jess who to me is a breath of fresh air in the sometimes 'so precious it gags me' Stars Hollow, we begin to see Luke's fierce loyalty to his family (and it's interesting to compare and contrast that to Lorelai's family relationship), Luke begins to become more of a real person rather than just the attractive diner guy, Lane starts becoming more of a real person and we start getting more insight into her life, we start seeing more of who Richard is (and to me, how Lorelai really takes after him in so many ways), Sookie and Jackson are a blast to watch together, I could go on and on.

Season 3 - I love Season 3 because with the exception of the lame ass Francie & the Fluffs plotline and equally lame ass Luke and Nicole relationship, I love this time in everyone's lives. Rory and Dean are broken up (yes!), Rory and Jess are together (yes!), Lorelai is single without seeming so desperate about it (rewatching PLG yesterday I was truly horrified at how quickly she jumped from breaking up with Max to trying to talk Christopher into spending the night - blech), Richard's business is doing well and he is happy again, Gran is in the picture a lot which is always fun, etc etc.

Next in line: Seasons 4, 5 and 7

Season 4 - I enjoy Season 4 because above all, it makes me laugh. While I don't love (or even like) Jason with Lorelai, as a character his is FUNNY. I love dry humor and he has it in spades. The first couple of times through S4 I was bored with Rory at Yale but after seeing Rory with Logan at Yale, I realized how much I love S4 Rory at Yale. Paris' ongoing friction with Janet is hilarious, Tana is so far away from reality she's hilarious, TJ and Liz's wedding is sweet and hilarious at the same time. Also, I think S4 is one of the best seasons for organically building the plotlines.

Season 5 - I have to put a caveat on this one. I love the S5 Luke/Lorelai relationship, and I find the S5 Emily/Richard relationship fascinating to watch. Everything else, I'm either very meh, or I hate it. But I love the L/L stuff so much that it carries the season for me.

Season 7 - Somebody above said that S7 had the heart without the wittiness. That is a perfect description. I enjoy (most of) S7 because it really does try, but the excruciating L/C relationship makes it too painful to watch over and over.

And finally: Season 6

I have to admit that S6 has some awesome moments (Lane's wedding reception will always be one of my favorite television events), but watching S6 is like trying to go on with life after a death in the family. All the effort of S6 is on the part of the viewer to try to hang in there, and it gets tiring.

[SqueegieB]

I'm also stealing the grouping idea.

I think in some ways, the series groups itself for me:

Seasons 1, 2, and 3 -- I find these first three seasons to be the encapsulation of the perfect Gilmore Girls world. There's all the Lorelai/Rory stuff that I always love above anything else on this show, Rory is the charming bookworm that initially sucked me in, the always excellent FNDs, and the townies are so fun that I wish I lived in Stars Hollow. There's also all the tension building we get between Luke and Lorelai and some of my favorite underrated episodes are from these seasons (Like Mother, Like Daughter and Secrets and Loans). Oh, also the fact that TJ had not yet made an appearance was a huge plus.

Seasons 4 and 5 -- I think these seasons felt different to the previous three in a way that was very organic to the characters and their history. Luke and Lorelai finally moved forward in their relationship and some of my favorite episodes are from these two seasons (The Fundamental Things Apply, Raincoats and Recipes, Say Something, and So...Good Talk). I also really enjoyed Rory at Yale, if only for that one teaser of her coming home after she's moved out and finding the alarm installed by Kirk. Classic.

Seasons 6 and 7 -- While these two seasons were much more uneven and I had to struggle sometimes to really understand the direction of certain *ahem* storylines, there is still much of the Gilmore spark to be found. S6 still felt like GG, even though many of the characters weren't acting like themselves. In fact, I really enjoy a lot of the episodes from the first half of the season. Unfortunately, the second half was very hard to watch. S7 was difficult for me because it felt off from the beginning and it took a long time before there were any moments that didn't feel written to me. However, I did like Rory's return to her original self and the last episodes had more of the charm that I always loved about the show.

[bookwrm74]

I started to cut and paste all of the many comments that I agreed with, but after running out of bandwith, I decided it made more sense to just give an all-encompassing WORD to the great points made by everyone above.
I'll try to make my explanations of my rankings brief (or at least as brief as someone as long-winded as I am can be!) and not to repeat TOO much of what's already been said. My order:

S2---IMO, more layered and interesting (and far less 'precious') than S1. A huge number of my all-time favorite, endlessly rewatchable episodes hail from this season. (Those who've read my posts know that my love for Red Light..., A Road Trip, Like Mother, Like Daughter, Run Away, Little Boy and about 10 other S2 episodes knows no bounds!) and even the few S2 episodes I'm meh on overall (like It Should Have Been Lorelai, Help Wanted and Hammers and Veils) have several scenes, lines and moments that I adore. I still cared about and related to Rory here, and actually loved Lorelai in S2 more than I did in S1. I actually enjoy Luke and his interactions with the other characters more in S2 than any other season with the possible exception of S4. As others have said, the arrival of Jess made for interesting and often awesomely snarky interactions with Luke, Rory and even Lorelai.
This is just below S2 of Buffy on my list of 'favorite TV seasons of all time.' But I have nearly the same amount of love for...

S4: I know people complain that nothing of much significance happened until the final few episodes of this season, and I completely get why some feel that way. But, for me, GG has never been about the storylines and plot developments, which I frankly always felt was AS-P's greatest weakness as a writer anyway. I just adored these characters, their brilliant dialogue and the fascinating glimpses into their lives and communities. I love that S4 is so relatively low-key. I'll take quietly delightful, subtly sly TV over roller-coaster filled, melodramatic TV any day. (See Season 6!) As Taryn noted, my appreciation for Rory's first year experiences at Yale only increased after seeing S5. In fact, I still really liked and related to Rory throughout S4...er, right up until she slept with Dean to the tune of 'Candy Man', a song that I can never again hear without cringing. (Oh, and as many of you know and tease me about, I *adore* Digger. Not as a boyfriend for Lorelai, but as a character)

S3: I hate Nicole and the fact that we were supposed to believe she and Luke 'clicked' when I could never even see them making it through one date. I hate the Puffs and everything even tangetially related to the embarrassingly lame 'political intrigue' at Chilton. However, I absolutely adore S3. I love the Rory-Lorelai interactions and (most of) Rory and Jess, who I find infinitely more interesting than Rory-Dean. The season contains four or five or my very favorite episodes, and even the meh ones have enough of that quintessential GG-esque wit, warmth and intelligence to make them well worth watching IMO. I even really like the widely reviled Oasis. *bows head in shame*

S1 and S5: I was relieved to see other people listing some ties among the seasons, because I was really debating over which of these two to place higher. I know I should love S1. In fact, I *do* love S1, just not nearly as much as I do S2-S4. I hate Dean, who IMO was incredibly dull, generic and sulky this season even before he became vaguely stalker-y and perpetually angry/jealous/annoyed in S2. I hate Max, who I think is smarmy, boring and has about as much chemistry with Lorelai as Luke does with Nicole---i.e., absolutely none. S1 in general is also just a little too cloying and twee and cutesy for my tastes, and not as interesting or layered as the series becomes in S2.

I don't dislike any S1 episodes, but there are very few that I deeply love (Rory's Birthday Parties and maybe The Third Lorelai).
Contrast that with S5, which has some episodes that I loathe but also some that rank among my all-time favorites. I love certain parts of the L/L romance, though I still feel it could have been done much better even in S5. I'm always surprised by how much I love much of S5, some of which is just as witty and warm and joyful an exploration of family relationships as the earlier seasons. However, the last five episodes of S5 are unwatchable for me. Not only does the mounting assassination of Rory's character reach new lows, but the entire tone and focus of the show seems to change around the time of Diorama. I HATE Logan and the fact that they even had him be anything more than a one-night stand who, say, was meant to teach Rory about herself, relationships, the fact that you can't change people etc. Instead, she freakin' 'tames' him (*sigh*) in between gallivanting around with the Life and Death Brigade types in her suddenly uber-fashionable wardrobe (*double sigh*). Gone was the proudly geeky, quietly determined Rory of the past. Instead, she became...well, exactly like the kind of person that her earlier self would have mocked.

S7 As others have already said, what it lacked in GG's trademark wit and cleverness, it (at least partially) made up for with its heart. I can honestly say that I love a few of the episodes: Lorelai, Lorelai; Farewell, My Pet; Bon Voyage and...er, well, that's pretty much it. But that faint praise is still more than I can give to...

S6 How this once jubiliant, life-celebrating gem of a show became so grim and joyless and brimming over with icky melodrama just blows my mind. The storylines completely took over what was once a proudly character-based show...and said storylines were an absolute trainwreck. I loved 21ITLN and parts of Friday Night's Alright for Fighting. Other than that, though, I loathe this season---from the miserable, ultimately pointless and unresolved rift between Lorelai and Rory to the soap opera-esque arrival of Luke's long lost daughter (Seriously? They really thought that was a wise direction in which to take this show?) to the awful and seemingly endless Luke-Lorelai mess.

Overall, I still love this show more than anything ever on TV not named Buffy. However, that doesn't mean that S6 doesn't still blow me away with its jaw-dropping awfulness. And, yeah, so much for my goal not to be too long-winded...;)

Edited by bookwrm74, Dec 19, 2007 @ 8:01 PM.

[hildaqueen]

Season 4: This is my favorite season because I felt I understood how they got from point A to B in this season. It is also filled with a barrel of laughs. What I loved about GG was its comedy and references and this season has it all. I am also in love with Digger. He is hilarious albeit weird.

Season 1: So quirky. So beautifully done. Its hard to put into words why I love season 1 so much.


Season 5: This is a great season even though the last three episodes aren't all that great. Its the birth of my second favorite ship. I love band scenes. So, it gave me plenty of that. OVerall, just the right balance of comedy and drama.


Season 3: I can't stop laughing in this season. Its not the best of the group but its up there in entertainment value.


Season 2: I know its well-loved by hate this season, but not as much as the last two of the series. This is the year where they really put a battering ram towards all of the major characters and pushed their likability. IMO its the predecessor to the cursed seasons.


Season 6: Pod-characters and contrived Drama.


Season 7: Too much Christopher. Too much of the drug-induced Lorelai. Overall just badly done with very little payoff.

[bellamn16]

I'm currently watching Season 4...and it's so damn adorable and funny that it's making me want to recant my post and switch Seasons 4 and 1 on my poll answer. I know part of it is the nostalgia I feel when I watch it, as these were the first episodes I ever saw...but the season is so much fun!!!

Shadow dancing....

Edited by bellamn16, Dec 30, 2007 @ 3:51 PM.

[bookwrm74]

OKay, so what better way to kick off the new year by fueling our continued GG obsession with another poll question?!

Rank the following list of Rory's relationships or at least potential semi-love interests from your favorite to least favorite. And, as always, tell us why you feel the way you do :)

Here are the choices: Tristan, Dean, Jess, Marty and Logan. I'm still debating, but I'll return once I've made up my mind!

[Bookwormrach]

Although I don't really have a favorite Rory romance (and this is a strange looking list), I would rank them as...
(1) Marty: I'm just choosing to ignore the season 7 stalker weirdness. Marty was cute, smart, and a great college pal. I'm just wishing Jews and Chinese Food never happened. (2) Dean: The perfect teen boyfriend in season one. No matter how much the show dumbed him down in later seasons, I almost always sympathized with Dean--even when he and Rory had an awful relationship. (3) Logan: Although I didn't like him in season 6, I really grew to like him in season 7. Besides, my best friend loves Logan and Logan/Rory, and I think her opinion has rubbed off on me. I liked Logan so much in season 7 that it almost erases the Bridesmaids-ery elements of season six. (4) Jess: I hated Rory when she was with him, or thinking about being with him. She was worse in her A-Tisket, A-Tasket moments to me than in some of her crazy-about-Logan moments. [Perhaps that's because I cared more "about" Rory during seasons 2 and 3, than in season 6, but who knows.] (5) Tristan: Just because we didn't really get to know him very much. And, plus, Chad Michael Murray.

Edited by Bookwormrach, Jan 1, 2008 @ 8:49 PM.

[bookwrm74]

and this is a strange looking list

Heh! Well, I was just trying to include all the guys we've seen as either a love interest or potential love interest for Rory. Then again, if I was listing anyone who was ever interested in Rory, I wouldn should have included 'the entire universe' as one of the choices since, as we know, everybody loves Rory!

[Taryn74]

Fun idea!

1) Jess - although I should quantify that by saying I loved the potential Rory had with Jess. I think Jess was the best suited to Rory, he was a good match for her intellectually and he challenged her to buck the 'belongs on top of a Christmas tree' image a little, without going overboard. But unfortunately, they just got together at a bad time for him and it all went to hell.

2) Marty - he could have been such a good choice for her in S4 and S5. He and Rory were always so comfortable with each other, and he actually had a fairly good relationship with Paris which has to be hard. The g'rents seemed to like him when they met him at the football game (although if they knew his financial status they might have thought differently) and Lorelai, to me, liked him more than any of Rory's other guys with the exception of Early!Dean.

3) Logan - S7 only. Once he toned down the drunken frat boy nonsense, he grew on me.

4) Dean - ouch! That hurt my fingers to type. Dean was just so boring and possessive and ugh.

5) Tristan - they had good chemistry in TB,PT and RALB. Otherwise, not so much.

[Bookwormrach]

and this is a strange looking list

Heh! Well, I was just trying to include all the guys we've seen as either a love interest or potential love interest for Rory. Then again, if I was listing anyone who was ever interested in Rory, I wouldn should have included 'the entire universe' as one of the choices since, as we know, everybody loves Rory!

Oh, no, booky, I didn't mean your list was strange-looking. I meant my ranked list seems really odd for me.