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The Grassy Knoll: DWTS Conspiracy Theories


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#1651

SaberTail

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 9:37 AM

Elsa, what about the theory that pros DO know it's a show and are scheduled/prompted to act or comment a certain way? Do you think they are really surprised by the scoring/comments? Maybe Chelsie was told to talk back when Roshon was scored down. And Maks' petulant behavior has been a huge talking point for this show, especially last season when all the gossip and chat shows talked about it. Maks as a prima donna is one of the drawing points for DWTS, a staple that some tune in to see just like some (can't imagine who) like to see Bruno jumping up and down and smacking Len with his swinging arms.

Or are the pros blind sided with the comments and what happens happens during critiques? Somehow, I can see (some of) those results scripted.

However, while I can sit at home and pretty much know who is going to get the lowest scores, maybe for the pros it's a case of not seeing the forest for the trees and they really don't know if they are the best/worst? (This one is hard for me to believe, a pro should know.)

Also, does it say anywhere that the pro MUST choreograph each dance for the star? We see special people being brought in, like Gladys' brother and Michael Jackson's choreographer for Roshon. Who says Tony can't be designing dances for Maks and Melissa?

Edited by SaberTail, May 2, 2012 @ 9:40 AM.

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#1652

Elsa

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 9:46 AM

I think they get plenty help with choreography. They've used Muppets - I think Derek or somebody got catapulted from the audience and even HE said it made him nervous and he wasn't too happy about it (several seasons ago and I've forgotten all the details but he made some comment that made it clear the producers came up with the idea.) My guess is the producers sit down with the pro and they discuss "ideas" - and the pro can make suggestions but may be overruled completely, whether it's dance style, song choice, OR choreography (there have been comments about discussions where the pro wants a different dance and/or song and there's a negotiation of sorts but the producers always have the last word.)

Oh and like you say, we've SEEN them get outside help, over and over. Shirley Ballas, some Paso expert explaining capework, Nick Kosovitch teaching masculinity, Derek's first appearance on the show was to come in and help Apolo/Julianne with rumba, Lacey's dad helped Chaz, etc etc - dozens of cases. I think it happens constantly - this show wouldn't leave it solely up to the pro dancers - they're nothing if not micro-managers, and they feel they have to be to keep the ratings up. NO WAY would they trust one of their pros, especially one of the newbies, to do all the planning and choreographing. Now Derek, maybe. But I know in the beginning, the Ballases were intimately involved in planning Mark's dances - probably still are - and I bet they were/are heavily involved in Julianne's and Derek's as well.

As to the pro's reactions - I really see hurt feelings. I think someone like Karina or Tristan - they care so much about their partner, that they just can't help but feel devastated when the partner is put down. I remember Tristan's voice actually breaking after his paso with Nancy - he kept saying the judges should have fussed at HIM not her because she did everything he wanted. Also, the quickstep "5" - Tristan immediately said "oh shit" and I think he was really hurt about it. He also told the interviewer George that he was angry about Bruno's comment that his rumba with Gladys wasn't sexy enough and he went on to talk about it in his blog.

Karina said in an interview that she used to take things so "to heart" and she had to learn to dial back on her hurt reactions because the judges are there to "entertain" and it's just how the show works.

I guess they kinda sorta know - but I think it's obvious they aren't privy to the discussions about how the dances will be scored and commented on, so it takes them by surprise a bit, and hurts their feelings. I just can't believe they don't know there are unfair manipulations going on - that some dances are unfairly scored high and some unfairly scored low. OR I can't believe that the veteran pros, like Cheryl, don't tell the newbies that so they aren't hurt as much by it. It just doesn't seem possible that it would never come up.

Edited by Elsa, May 2, 2012 @ 10:09 AM.

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#1653

QueenL

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 5:05 PM

Wanted to respond to a couple of things:

*Regarding the scores being pre-determined: I don't think that they're just outright scripted, at least not all of the time. There may be general guidelines given, and there may be prodding like "give this one a '6' to get a specific reaction", but I don't think that they're literally written out by the producers for all of the contestants.

We've seen the judges talking about the scores far too much for that to be the case, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist enough to say that even those conversations were set ups. There was a judging package shown on one of the results shows, just showing the funny conversations and banter amongst the judges. In it, Carrie-Ann was like "uuuuugh, I should have given him an 8!" and was quite upset about it. It was a throw-away thing, in a two minute clip of mostly funny stuff. Nothing TPTB would use to advance a conspiracy.

As a sidenote, we determined that she was talking about Chaz' Samba, which is something we figured out by process of elimination of what night that was.

There have been other times too. I can't recount them all, but one of them was when Bruno gave Gavin a 7 for that Samba, and said sheepishly "I like him..." when everyone looked at him like "WTF, that was really bad."

I do think that there may be times when a specific score is commanded from TPTB, but I just don't think that it's an all of the time thing.


*When the pros have someone come in and help them, it's usually with things like technique, and it seems like almost all the time it's a member of the same sex. It makes sense to get that type of help. I don't think that necessarily extends to the choreography, though I'm sure that there are times when someone may ask for some opinions and input.

I feel like you can basically really see almost every pro's imprint in their own work. There's a consistency there. So I really don't think anyone's using shadow choreography, unless they literally have consistently done it since day 1. And I just don't believe that, because you see that same style in a lot of their pro work too.

Also, a couple of celebs have blatantly said on the show "I don't think that people realize that each of our pros do all of the choreography too" when giving credit to their pros for all that they have to do. I specifically remember Heather Mills saying this.

Also, btw, I honestly do not believe that TPTB have input on choreography. Something like that would have been referenced by now. They definitely have input on the staging (Derek coming in on a rope, Rob coming in on that party float, etc., etc.), but I don't really consider that choreography.

*Earlier I said that TPTB would give Roshon the Paso Doble instead of the Jive this week, and that looks like it's true. I'm dying to hear if Melissa has the Argentine Tango. If William also has the Paso Doble, that's another sucky thing for Roshon, I think, because they can carry on about William having masculinity. Roshon probably isn't a threat anyway, but we'll never really know, because someone like Maria's fanbase has never been tested. And TPTB are certainly not gonna want to start that now, so they may not want to take any chances. Hopefully I'm wrong, though, and they won't be negative toward Roshon.

I really am curious to see if the celebs really do get to pick the pro who's gonna be joining them for the latin dance. I hope there's a way to find out (i.e. a celeb or pro hinting that it wasn't their pick. Although they may feel that saying so is disparaging to whomever they end up with, if that's the case).

ETA: It's been confirmed that will does have the Paso Doble this week, along with the Foxtrot. Same dances as Roshon...

Edited by QueenL, May 2, 2012 @ 6:05 PM.

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#1654

Elsa

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 8:22 PM

Well, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion, but I just don't agree. I think nearly every detail is planned by the producers and the judges are paid big bucks to act as though they aren't scripted to the nth degree.

I think sometimes they let the pro do what they want - and sometimes they don't. So I agree there's some latitude there, and the producers know they can get the result they want in a multitude of ways so they don't always have to manipulate the choreography - but I think they step in when they want to. And they already have a huge affect on it by selecting the dance style and the music, which sometimes is nearly impossible to work with. (and I think sometimes they let the pros or even the celebs pick the music - but everything is done with their involvement.)

Well, it's just my opinion. I don't *know* all this but it's what I believe. It's just too "off" otherwise. Maybe the first week is the most honest, then they get the fan vote numbers, and start very heavy manipulation of scores and comments to achieve what they want - down to which celeb they want to go home each and every week.
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#1655

Zelda Gilroy

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 11:07 PM

They do heavily manage the show. I think I'm between the two of you as to what degree. Somebody posted somewhere that Melissa wouldn't go this week because the eliminations have alternated female/ male all season. They were right and that kind of pattern doesn't happened by coincidence. I don't understand why they feel the need to do that. Both micromanage to that degree and keep the gender balance exactly equal every week.

Len Goodman created this franchise yet no one seems to point him out as one of TPTB. The pros strike me as having control freak tendencies at the minimum. Len has had the career competing plus decades doing nit picky judging and instructing. That would lead to the kind of extreme control freak that has to choreograph everything. But the predictability hurts the show.

Someone upthread mentioned laws preventing tampering with the voting.
Yes there are game show laws but they're easy to avoid. Label your show (down in the legal boilerplate) something like "unscripted entertainment," and, most importantly, do NOT have "contestants" have "cast members." Therefore it's just a show not a real contest. As we've seen with this sham. American Idol used to run a block of small print disclaimers at the end. It specifically stated that they reserved the right to change the outcome of the voting results. I don't know if they still do. If anyone cares enough, they could check the DWTS website for a similar disclaimer.
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#1656

Elsa

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 11:14 PM

I read once that there's a clause in all the pro dancers' contracts that says that if the producers deem it "in the interest of the show" they can disregard the fan votes. Wish I'd kept details of who said that, when, etc., but it certainly stuck in my mind! Maybe it just meant if there was evidence of foul play. Or maybe it meant exactly what it says.

When I was a fan of a soap opera, a person who worked there told us that they use the interns to vote on magazine and online polls in order to prop the actors, characters or couples that they want to look popular. So if they wanted to, they could simply hire interns to vote all night the way some fans do. What's to stop them?
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#1657

legaleagle44

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 12:11 AM

When I was a fan of a soap opera, a person who worked there told us that they use the interns to vote on magazine and online polls in order to prop the actors, characters or couples that they want to look popular. So if they wanted to, they could simply hire interns to vote all night the way some fans do. What's to stop them?

The very clause that you mentioned. It is in place to protect the integrity of the show by preventing the undue influence of robo-voting, as what it means is that the show can toss any votes that it feels are irregular or illegitimate. Flooding the online voting the way you are suggesting would trigger the application of that clause to block those votes, which, of course, would defeat the purpose of flooding the online voting in the first place.

Look, it's tough that Gladys and Tristan went out when they did, but them's the breaks. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and nothing more.
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#1658

rulesoftravel

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:25 AM

I don't know. I see a"winner take all" dance for 150 points that Maria barely wins for a possible future show if Derek and Maria keep landing in jeopardy.
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#1659

Elsa

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:39 AM

Look, it's tough that Gladys and Tristan went out when they did, but them's the breaks. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and nothing more.


I've believed this show was "fixed", to the nth degree, since 2007 and if you look back in this thread, you'll see my complaining, way back in Helio days. I don't think they faked the vote count with Gladys; they didn't have to because they lowballed her score and called her out first in the Cha Cha Marathon which I think they arranged to get rid of her and for other reasons, for example: by calling Maria out 2nd, they made it where Katherine and William were the team captains instead of having Maria and Katherine on separate teams. Also to get rid of Gladys, they propped Jaleel that week like crazy, but lowered the boom the next week because it was his turn to go.

I could go on all day long about the fakery. What about the 15 point bonus dance to get Chelsea Kane into the finals over Ralph Macchio? You honestly think that was fair and had nothing to do with them wanting Chelsea/Mark in the final and Ralph/Karina NOT to be, even though their fan support FAR surpassed C&M? Really?? Then why don't we have 15 point bonus dances every year? Answer: they don't need them every year - they figure out other ways to get who they want in the final (or kicked off, or whatever their plan is at the moment)

I know I love Tristan to the point of obsession, but a much longer obsession of mine has been my absolute conviction that they manipulate nearly EVERY detail of this show. I'm convinced (and have been for 5 years) that they have a storyboard and plan everybody's ouster, in the order they want, and they tend to get what they want without having to disallow votes, simply by scoring, comments, etc. Sometimes, it's worked in MY favor - especially in Strictly during the Matt/Gethin/Alesha season. Gethin WOULD have won but Strictly wanted Alesha so they kept the stupid dance-off all the way through the semi-finals and engineered Gethin's departure.

Well, for nearly every season I could give you a gripe. There was one season when Edyta did the most beautiful waltz for one of her contestants - Cameron or Jason - I can't even remember the man - but they put it down like it was awful because it wasn't in their script for her to do well that week. It broke my heart. But most all truth is sacrified for these producers to get the result they want, for whatever their nefarious reason du jour is. And I've been griping about this since Helio and you can go back and look up my posts to see that that's true. This is a matter completely separate from Gladys, who was thrown under the bus, but so is nearly everyone, while others, like Ricki and Kirstie and recently, Maria for that ridiculous stiff/awkward French-kiss salsa - or Ricki's kickless jive last season for which the judges had the cojones to praise her kicks for!! - oh I could go on all day - a zillion have been propped and over-praised out the wazoo, and just as many, unfairly downgraded and gimmicked out of the competition due to producer manipulation.

Edited by Elsa, May 3, 2012 @ 9:07 AM.

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#1660

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:55 AM

PureDWTS posted a New York Post interview with Conrad Green, who covers some interesting points about the legitimacy of the voting and why (and when) they decided on the dance duel.

I'm sure some manipulation happens, but I don't buy it that it's as thoroughgoing as described above. If it were, no way it would be kept that much under wraps. Way too many people would have to keep their mouths shut for that to work. Some will, but not all of 'em.
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#1661

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:00 AM

Conrad Green is spinning. I like this person's comment: "what Conrad neglects to mention is that people who AREN’T really popular but are good dancers are protected by the judges scores. So he kinda mis-states the viewers vote importance." The producers can elicit almost whatever result they want by manipulating the judges' comments, the judges' scores, the dance choices, the song choices, how the celebs and pros are presented in the edits, the "marathons", dance duels, 15 point bonus dances, "instant" dances designed to suit the ones they want to keep and devastate the ones they want to get rid of, team dances, etc. - and the judges just flat out lie, just as they're told to.

Well, anyway, I agree to disagree with everyone but I'm convinced this is how it works. of course I could be wrong! But watching carefully since Season 5, it's what I believe with all my heart, based on what I consider to be loads of very good evidence - slightly different nearly every season but a whole dossier of manipulation techniques they've used to "massage" every result.

Oh and my main point was to negate the suggestion that I was angry just this season because my favorite was voted off. I've been furious since Mel B!! and the incomprehensible propping of Helio - and I've been griping here about it every season, if you just look back through the thread. It's not a one-off. I think they do this every season, and every week of every season.

Edited by Elsa, May 3, 2012 @ 8:06 AM.

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#1662

alapaki

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

Someone upthread mentioned laws preventing tampering with the voting.
Yes there are game show laws but they're easy to avoid. Label your show (down in the legal boilerplate) something like "unscripted entertainment," and, most importantly, do NOT have "contestants" have "cast members." Therefore it's just a show not a real contest.


The "game show laws" do not apply to shows like DWTS. As worded, they apply to "question-and-answer"-type shows (i.e. Jeopardy) to prevent TPTB from feeding answers to a contestant.

Arguably, the show would expose itself to a claim for fraud or false advertising if they induce people to vote and then ignore those votes. But that's an extremely tough thing to prove and something I doubt the show is concerned about.

The very clause that you mentioned. It is in place to protect the integrity of the show by preventing the undue influence of robo-voting, as what it means is that the show can toss any votes that it feels are irregular or illegitimate. Flooding the online voting the way you are suggesting would trigger the application of that clause to block those votes, which, of course, would defeat the purpose of flooding the online voting in the first place.


The express limitation on the number of votes from any one phone-line or e-mail address (contrasted with AI which has no such express limit) arguably addresses this. However, when Bristol Palin was on the show there were right-wingnut websites openly explaining how to game the e-mail system through dummy (no pun intended) e-mail addresses (etc.) I don't recall the show expressing any concern about that.

Ultimately I agree with Elsa. As I mentioned upthread, TPTB have so many ways to manipulate how much a vote counts, they don't have to manipulate the counting of the votes.
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#1663

Elsa

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:21 AM

Thanks so much for your post, alapaki. It's so gratifying when someone else sees what I am just SO sure that I see. I don't understand how anyone could defend the 15 point bonus dance. When you see the lengths they'll go to when a pet is in deep trouble, well, I just think it's 100% clear that they'll do nearly ANYTHING to get the result they want, short of violence. And once you realize it, you start to see a lot more of their shenanigans. It's nearly constant and affects nearly every contestant.

It's a rare instance when they don't have a dog in the race and score honestly and just let the viewers decide. Maybe they never do that! But I think maybe they had bigger plans for Kristin Cavallari, say, but her vote count was SO low they just gave up the ghost without a fight. I know they factor in the votecount and adjust their schemes accordingly, as the show goes on, but if there's a way to overcome a low votecount for a pet, they'll jump very high hurdles to do it (and vice versa - if they want to get rid of a fan fave, they'll find a way, 99.99% of the time.)

Edited by Elsa, May 3, 2012 @ 9:27 AM.

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#1664

SaberTail

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:41 AM

one of them was when Bruno gave Gavin a 7 for that Samba, and said sheepishly "I like him..." when everyone looked at him like "WTF, that was really bad."

I interpreted that same scenario as "WTF, we all agreed he was getting 6s!"

I enjoy this Grassy Knoll talk. I have to agree the most with Elsa, I've always felt the show has been manipulated. I don't know why except perhaps the producers think DWTS will become a laughing stock if someone like Bristol Palin (or Gladys) wins the mirrorball. It's never been about voters. Well, maybe the very first season where the show "learned its lesson" when Kelly Monaco won. I think they grossly underestimated the power of the soap opera. So they staged a "dance off" special episode so John O'Hurley could win FOR REAL and claim the trophy that was suppose to be his from the get go.

Since then, TPTB have learned to use extra-credit points, marathons, team dances, blah blah blah to give their chosen winner the best advantage so they don't have to have another Kelly Monaco/John O'Hurley do-over.

Meanwhile, it's always been pretty clear to me who they want off each week. The week Gladys was given the diss edit, everyone rallied and kept her in with their votes. Our voting so much was not to script! But the judge's comments and crummy scores got me fired up enough to vote everything I had for her after not voting EVER for multiple seasons. Then the next week with the marathon they made it impossible for Gladys to ever make up the difference, even if everyone in the universe dialed in for her. I knew she was beyond help so I didn't bother voting.

The following week, Maks/Melissa were the target. Again, it was made so obvious I had to vote for them. Like them or not, I hate the judging manipulation and wanted to say "bite me" to TPTB. Others must have felt the same way since it worked and they stayed. This coming week I predict Melissa will be given the bum's rush with scores (and manipulation) so blatantly against her that our votes don't make a dent in her inevitable departure.

I think Jaleel was on his way out until the Kym fight and ex-abuse scandals broke. TPTB couldn't get rid of him then, it would tarnish the show. So he was given the happy camper edit and sent on the talk-show circuit until the fight/scandal stuff blew over a bit, then he was let go.

It's all smoke and mirrors with this show. If it weren't, I couldn't be sitting at home predicting the outcome as easily as I do. If only I really were clairvoyant, wouldn't my life be different!
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#1665

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 12:53 PM

I think the show is manipulated to the nth degree once the show knows who is pulling the fan vote. They manipulate this to hide the front runner and keep the impression of a horse race and one way of doing this is keeping good dancers in the mix and also to manipulate mid-season "leaderboard shake-ups.". I also think in the past they've manipulated the winner (Nicole comes to mind). The gazillion times there's one judge who is a buzz kill IMO is also storyboarded, so are some of Len's so-called quibbles. His first ten is a big deal so they strategize that one. The judging differences, IMO, are the most bogus of all. I always roll my eyes when Maks takes after the judges - he knows as well as anyone that it's the producers' show, but I guess they're the ones who sign his paycheck, so he knows better.

This season I've been watching only in the most desultory way, usually after it's aired. I watched the marathon that I believe Katherine won. I didn't watch all the way through and although lacking a super favorite I'm defaulting to rooting for Cheryl's partner, I believe William was scored fairly in second (he wasn't knee-sliding all over the place at all - their stuff was mixed up quite a bit with good musicality). Donald IMO was clearly the best. William second. Katherine third. (Of the final three.) I like her fine, despite Mark, and am sure there have been nights when she deservedly was in first but the pre-determination of this marathon was ridiculous. She was third by a fair piece.

The fact that William keeps getting scored highly despite some arguable moments in his dances and the fact that Katherine is getting held up as well suggests to me that she's this year's Rikki Lake and will go out third, William is runner up and Donald will suddenly start doing well towards the end, with the occasional suspense-generating low balled score in the semi finals.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, May 3, 2012 @ 12:54 PM.

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#1666

tip and fall

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:11 PM

I believe William was scored fairly in second (he wasn't knee-sliding all over the place at all - their stuff was mixed up quite a bit with good musicality).

Apparently even William himself was completely bewildered at getting second place. I believe someone posted an interview here where he admitted that he ended up forgetting the cha cha steps and started doing the salsa (?).

When TPTB talk about robo-voting, I wonder if they mean people voting manually a million times over, or actual software programs that do the voting for you? (Such programs exist, right?) They have to be aware of people making up dummy emails to vote as much as they can for their favorite contestants. Bristol wasn't the first person to do it, she won't have been the last. Since the voting regulations only seem to specify a limit PER email/phone line, I'd imagine it doesn't qualify as cheating unless the people themselves aren't the ones doing it. Power voting happens for every single reality show of this type. I remember participating in voting parties for Evan, although a fat lot of good it did, lol. But I ain't ashamed, because I'm 100% sure we weren't alone.

Edited by tip and fall, May 3, 2012 @ 2:12 PM.

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#1667

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:24 PM

Ultimately I agree with Elsa. As I mentioned upthread, TPTB have so many ways to manipulate how much a vote counts, they don't have to manipulate the counting of the votes.

Thanks so much for your post, alapaki. It's so gratifying when someone else sees what I am just SO sure that I see. I don't understand how anyone could defend the 15 point bonus dance.

Elsa, I agree with you as well. I believe that with every season the "fixing" has become worse, to the point I'm unable to take any of it seriously anymore. I don't become invested in any couple - it's too discouraging. I don't believe they throw out viewer votes, but I do believe they manipulate the show in various ways to achieve their end game and they don't even care how obvious they are about it. It's disheartening to see how they've (IMO) destroyed the show. I don't really enjoy it anymore and in my opinion, this may be the worst season ever.

Well, maybe the very first season where the show "learned its lesson" when Kelly Monaco won. I think they grossly underestimated the power of the soap opera. So they staged a "dance off" special episode so John O'Hurley could win FOR REAL and claim the trophy that was suppose to be his from the get go.

I didn't know who Kelly Monaco was when she started the show and I was unimpressed with her in the beginning. But damn if she didn't win me over with her hard work, great attitude and fun routines. I voted for her and I am not a soap fan. And I'll bet I'm not the only one. John O'Hurley acted like a two-year-old when he lost and that dance-off show should never have happened.
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#1668

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:39 PM

I didn't mean to imply there isn't blatant manipulation (the Winner Take All cha cha being a prime example) or that Conrad Green wasn't doing some spinning. Yes, he was, but he also was giving information I hadn't known before and thought applied.

I just think that it's probably about as micromanaged as people have let slip, maybe a bit more, not a ton more. 'Cause there are people who are gonna talk. (I know I would!)
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#1669

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:45 PM

I don't believe in "fixing" so much as TPTB trying to make good tv. There are two different things happening on DWTS: a tv show and a competiton. They overlap, but they aren't the same.

The primary goal is to make good tv. They sometimes sacrifice fairness for the sake of creating a good show. Things like run order, music, and especially the editing in packages are all done in ways that benefit some couples and hurt others. Still, even if they give someone a bad edit, I think they let the voting stand. If you dance first to a crappy song after they show a huge fight between you and your partner, and you still manage to get the scores and the votes, you'll make it to the next week.

Really though I think most of the propping up on this show happens to create suspense. If one couple is the clear winner from week 1, TPTB have an interest in propping up other couples so it looks like they have a chance. Another concern is who can bring attention to the show through the media. If someone is a big name or gets people talking, I think they're more likely to benefit from good songs, run order, etc.

TPTB seem to get carried away at times, and they pimp some couples too hard while ignoring the ones they think don't have a chance. For example, it would be nice to see them doing a better job rotating the run order. I think they could do that without sacrificing the entertainment aspect of the show. They could also be more consistent with letting us know (or not know) the bottom 2. If they don't want to let us know the bottom 2, they shouldn't put any couples under the red light and use that for suspense. So many viewers get tricked by that and Chris Jericho said it messed with his head. Again, that's a piece of unnnecessary manipulation.

For me, it comes down to subtle manipulation for the sake of entertainment. Some couples have more hurdles to overcome in the competion than others. I believe in the numbers though, and when someone goes home it's because they had the lowest combined scores.
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#1670

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:52 PM

I think the show is manipulated to the nth degree once the show knows who is pulling the fan vote. They manipulate this to hide the front runner and keep the impression of a horse race and one way of doing this is keeping good dancers in the mix and also to manipulate mid-season "leaderboard shake-ups.".

Agree totally.

They have a good idea of the order they want celebs to leave.
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#1671

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:25 PM

When TPTB talk about robo-voting, I wonder if they mean people voting manually a million times over, or actual software programs that do the voting for you? (Such programs exist, right?)


Check with 'The Woz'. He had not been happy when he kept being in the bottom 2 or declared in jeopardy that he thought the show was discounting the votes coming in for him. He was so confident that his geek fans will keep him in that he demanded TPTB to show how the votes were being tallied. He felt that electronically his followers knew how to keep him in.

So, for that season at least, the voting was legitimate. And I suspect that TPTB cannot nor dare to 'play' with that aspect of the show i.e. the votes from the audience, lest they come under scrutiny and are found doing something illegal.

Thus TPTB do know the popularity of a star pretty quickly when the votes come in, and should their pet star/pro not attract the right audience response, TPTB have to 'do something, anything' except touch the votes.

Edited by Sandynz, May 3, 2012 @ 8:30 PM.

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#1672

Zelda Gilroy

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:48 PM

All the eliminations this season alternated by gender. This was pointed out by someone else. I believed like so many that Melissa was being dumped this week but clearly not. Last week was girl so this week was boy. Apparently they need an equal number of males and females next week for the 3 way dance round to work out. Melissa was in no danger.
I understand that kind of manipulation but why be so obvious about it? You can end up with the equal numbers without strictly alternating the eliminations. It's so OCD.
Next week will probably complete the pattern with 1 man and 1 woman eliminated even though it shouldn't matter at that point.

Melissa combined with Maks have had the strongest voting base all along. Gladys was popular but Tristan doesn't have the fan base that Maks does. Votes should carry them to the final 4 at least but I don't believe that will happen, Melissa will have served her purpose in the trios so adios!
I think Roshon will go too but he's the Disney kid. Will that be the deciding factor? Donald isn't a superstar like Emmit Smith. I don't believe he's the chosen winner. He's been almost ignored all season. The comments are always bland and half-hearted. It communicates that he's not worthy of interest and avoids stirring up fan emotions. Minimizes fan motivation to vote. I would really like to see Donald win. He wants to so badly and gains nothing but the fugly trophy and the endless teasing of his teammates.
I don't know about Maria but the others are there to further their careers. Nothing wrong with that.

Katherine seems the chosen one and she's paired with Golden Boy Mark. I think the judges endless propping and fawning is the only reason I remember she exists.

Golden Boy Derrick might win. I can see the judges drooling over him and praising the grace and elegance of his partner- a maniquin on wheels! Maria doesn't matter to TPTB but Derrick has to have a partner.

William is there to attract Hispanic viewers so whether that's working or not TPTB will keep him on to the finals. I'm a fan of his from telenovelas and I'm enjoying him on this show but 4th place is fair. But I think Donald will be dumped, if he was supposed to go farther he wouldn't have a newbie partner.
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#1673

rulesoftravel

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:01 PM

Well, maybe the very first season where the show "learned its lesson" when Kelly Monaco won. I think they grossly underestimated the power of the soap opera. So they staged a "dance off" special episode so John O'Hurley could win FOR REAL and claim the trophy that was suppose to be his from the get go


The winner of the first season of DWTS has always been recognized as Kelly Monaco. Even the show realizes the dance off was idiotic.

I really do not think TIIC have factored in Maks's huge and loyal fan base. So, who knows. Like I said, if they aren't getting the votes for their chosen couple, there will be a "winner take all" dance that either Maria or Katherine will win.
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#1674

DotsAndStripes

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:16 PM

All the eliminations this season alternated by gender. This was pointed out by someone else. I believed like so many that Melissa was being dumped this week but clearly not. Last week was girl so this week was boy. Apparently they need an equal number of males and females next week for the 3 way dance round to work out. Melissa was in no danger.
I understand that kind of manipulation but why be so obvious about it? You can end up with the equal numbers without strictly alternating the eliminations. It's so OCD.
Next week will probably complete the pattern with 1 man and 1 woman eliminated even though it shouldn't matter at that point.


I was the one who noticed the pattern, and while I'd love to brag about my physic abilities, there was a 4/7 chance of a man being eliminated this past week. I honestly believe the pattern is just a coincidence. We had a similar pattern in Season 12 that ended when Ralph was eliminated after Romeo. Season 13 didn't have the same pattern.

The twist this week does not require an even number of male and female celebrities. They're using troupe members too, so regardless of who was elminated last week, we would have more than enough available pros/troupe members of each sex. Also, it's rumored at this point that 4 male pros are involved (Val, Tony, Henry, and Sasha), so we might have a male pro helping a male celebrity.

I like patterns and I like Maks, so I was hoping the pattern would hold this past week. It's all in good fun and I don't take the pattern too seriously. Still, I wouldn't mind Maria finishing sixth.
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#1675

legaleagle44

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

Well, maybe the very first season where the show "learned its lesson" when Kelly Monaco won. I think they grossly underestimated the power of the soap opera. So they staged a "dance off" special episode so John O'Hurley could win FOR REAL and claim the trophy that was suppose to be his from the get go.

The winner of the first season of DWTS has always been recognized as Kelly Monaco. Even the show realizes the dance off was idiotic.


That was never the purpose of that dance-off. It was never intended to reverse the Season 1 result; it was simply an additional title that Kelly could just as easily have won. And it never would have happened at all, if John's FANBASE and the MEDIA (NOT John himself) had been willing to drop the matter after the controversial Season 1 win, but we wouldn't because to many of us, (including yours truly) that win smacked of nothing more than a rubber-stamping of Kelly as the pre-ordained winner despite John's technical superiority and a disastrous Freestyle routine from Kelly that wasn't anywhere nearly worthy of a 30. To John's fans, Kelly shouldn't have been anywhere near the finals, much less won (much as many people would wax apoplectic now if, say, Melissa were to win over Katherine or Donald.) Talk about your grassy-knoll theories!

Edited by legaleagle44, May 3, 2012 @ 11:02 PM.

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#1676

Elsa

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 12:00 AM

Yep - the judges were "overlooking" blatant mistakes way back in Season 1. My guess is Kelly had a lot more fan support than John, and the judges were over-scoring/over-praising so it wouldn't look so ridiculous when she won over John. But I agree with the poster upthread who said they've gotten worse over the years with the fakery. Oh well, you'd think after 5 years, I'd just accept it and move on, but it still infuriates me.

And I know they do it "for the good of the show" - not because they really have "favorites." Even Derek. I don't think they're just crushing on him or anything. I think they think he brings the wow-factor in his choreography - and they probably feel the same about Mark and maybe Kym/Cheryl. And so, they prop their celebs. As Tristan might say, "It is what it is."

I don't watch any other reality shows other than Project Runway - and I've noticed it's often fake/rigged as well. And again, not "rigged" because of personal favorites, but because the producers think they're putting out the best show they can to keep the ratings high. I understand this is a business and these shows are not real competitions. It just irks when you feel like they're fooling you on purpose, or at least that's what gets to me.

For all I know, they're right, and I wouldn't like the show as much if they didn't manipulate it. But I *think* I'd prefer it if it were honest and the judges tried to judge as if they were doing a Dancesport comp. Although... I wonder if those things are straight-up and non-political. If I ever see Maks or Tony (or Tristan again, lol), I'll ask them!

Edited by Elsa, May 4, 2012 @ 12:00 AM.

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#1677

TryingHarder

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 12:49 AM

Donald isn't a superstar like Emmit Smith. I don't believe he's the chosen winner. He's been almost ignored all season. The comments are always bland and half-hearted. It communicates that he's not worthy of interest and avoids stirring up fan emotions. Minimizes fan motivation to vote.

Please don't under estimate Packer fans. We live and breathe Packers. He has never let us down and we will not let him down.

Let's just pretend he makes it to the finals against Katherine or Maria. His votes will blow them away, even tho he has an unknown partner. There is a reason they let him dance the pimp spot, he keeps viewers tuned in. And they know that by the votes he's getting. I don't think he is going anywhere anytime soon.
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#1678

toonces464

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:43 AM

Melissa combined with Maks have had the strongest voting base all along.


Unless you're involved in counting the votes, I don't know how you can say this as if it's fact. You don't know if Melissa came in first in fan votes or third from the bottom.

I suspect Donald and William are getting huge amounts of votes.

Edited by toonces464, May 4, 2012 @ 1:44 AM.

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#1679

PBGamer89

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:49 AM

That's exactly why I hate football players on this show.

They come in with an unfairly large fan base that the others have no chance.

If I was a celeb cast on DWTS and found they cast a football player, I'd be pissed that I had no shot no matter how I danced.
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#1680

TryingHarder

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 1:53 AM

That's exactly why I hate football players on this show.

They come in with an unfairly large fan base that the others have no chance

Being a football player didnt help Lawrence Talyor ! lol


I suspect Donald and William are getting huge amounts of votes.

I think you're right.

Edited by TryingHarder, May 4, 2012 @ 2:11 AM.

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