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Ye Olde Suggestion Box & Non-Tech Stuff Thread


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#3751

lonelyteardrop

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Posted Feb 28, 2012 @ 8:11 PM

My question is about something that has increased a great deal in the last year: self-appointed mods in certain threads. I am especially aware of this in the Teen Mom and Real HWs of Beverly Hills threads*. There are a few individuals who don't really contribute to the overall chat (maybe an occasional post every five pages) but, rather, spend all their time looking for reasons to report their fellow posters. Sometimes they will have FTC reports that are being continually updated so that there are 10 or 12 links embedded for a mod to address. Many times it is extremely minor stuff: someone missed an explanation 2 pages back and is then reported for 15/15, or someone not adding IMO even though it's obviously an opinion being expressed who then gets reported for "stating opinion as fact." This kind of stuff actually detracts from the thread moving along smoothly because people end up filling their posts with IMO, JMHO, YMMV etc, which just clutters up the pages.
Setting aside the disturbing thought that these individuals have no life whatsoever, it would help if the section mods would announce or pin a statement that certain posters have been deputized to perform as mini-mods to keep things on track. At least things would make sense. Thanks.


You ask an excellent question, Vineyjoy. I canít comment to ĎTeen Momí but the (closed-for-the-duration) ĎRHofBHí thread did seem to have a select group of posters who were oddly over-invested with reporting (and reporting ... and reportingÖ) others. Iím not an everyday poster but it got to a point where Iíd occasionally comment and then feel like I needed to check out the FTC to see if, somehow, I had not made the Ďopinioní component of my post clear. And youíre also correct that there would be reports that contained a veritable waterfall of perceived board violations, which is just kind of weird (IMO, of course!) because, wow, who has that much time?

Glad you raised this question for a moderator to address. I, too, am curious if there are Lilí Mods in the House. Or at least in certain threads.
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#3752

kemon

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Posted Feb 28, 2012 @ 11:00 PM

There are a few individuals who don't really contribute to the overall chat (maybe an occasional post every five pages) but, rather, spend all their time looking for reasons to report their fellow posters.

Why do you assume those who rarely post are merely reading threads to find infractions? I read a lot of threads but I don"t post in all of them. I also think some people make their point clear in one post without feeling the need to repeat their point which seems to be one of the big problems regarding the two threads in question. I believe a post here and there is adding to the conversation. Even if one posts once for each episode, that is adding to the conversation. There is no rule that states one must post several times in order to keep the flow of the conversation going.

Edited by kemon, Feb 28, 2012 @ 11:04 PM.

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#3753

snowflakey

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 3:07 AM

I think the main concern is that FTC, in a way, is being somewhat abused with nitpicking type reports. Yes, Teen Mom and RHoBH are "trouble" threads, and need more mod attention. However, to report every third post in the thread for minor infractions, is plain and simple shit stirring, IMO. The reports aren't for two posters having a knockdown drag out in the thread, or someone being an outright troll. The reports are for "minor" infractions, like forgetting to put in an "IMO" in the post and it being reported as opinion as fact. Or if a post looks even the slightest boards on boards, it gets reported.

The main reporters of those threads don't post often in the threads themselves can seem a little suspect. It does appear that they are just combing the threads for the slightest infraction and create huge "violation" lists in FTC. Or perhaps they are using sockpuppets to do the reporting, and may in fact be more active in the thread then they appear to be. However, this is may just be more inadvertent(?) stirring of the pot, making the threads seem worse than what it actually is. When a mod sees a giant list of "violations" for particular thread, it must be extremely frustrating. Frustrating to the point where the mod just shuts it down rather than having to sift through a boatload of complaints day after day.

Just my two cents on this whole thing.

Edited by snowflakey, Feb 29, 2012 @ 3:12 AM.

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#3754

cutecouple

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:13 AM

Was wondering if it was OK to start a thread for a series pilot, especially if the pilot doesn't appear to be out yet. It's for the CBS series Elementary, their take on Sherlock Holmes.
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#3755

fashionista79

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 6:48 AM

I think the main concern is that FTC, in a way, is being somewhat abused with nitpicking type reports. Yes, Teen Mom and RHoBH are "trouble" threads, and need more mod attention. However, to report every third post in the thread for minor infractions, is plain and simple shit stirring, IMO. The reports aren't for two posters having a knockdown drag out in the thread, or someone being an outright troll. The reports are for "minor" infractions, like forgetting to put in an "IMO" in the post and it being reported as opinion as fact. Or if a post looks even the slightest boards on boards, it gets reported.


My $0.02, for what it's worth, is that I understand that there are some full show threads that don't give as much trouble as some of the basement threads. However, I think part of that goes back to how many times reports are made in the FTC, and in turn those reports seem to create a need for yet more rules. For example, I do participate in one of the areas that has a full show thread (Boardwalk Empire), and I don't recall seeing so many issues in that area...or at least none that rival what I've seen elsewhere. Disagreements happen, of course, but not to the point where the moderator starts pinning rules in the episode threads or the character threads or the media thread.

With the RHoBH thread, however, what I've seen happen is something like this:

- X becomes the topic of the thread for several days, and people go back and forth discussing it. Afterward, the moderator comes in and tells the posters to move on because the discussion has been going on for far too long. It may even become rule #1 in a post pinned at the top of the thread. So, what's happened now is that there exists a possibility to violate rule #1.

- Now that X is considered off-topic, posters move on to talk about Y. Again, that discussion goes on for days, with posters agreeing or disagreeing. After that, Y turns into rule #2 of off-topic chatter. There's another possible rule violation added to the thread.

- So, X and Y are now off limits, and people strike up topic Z. Once more, that sparks some back and forth, and then sparks another rule in the thread about discussing Z.

After it's all said and done, there are now three rules pinned at the top of the thread. I believe that it adds fuel to the issue whereby, like others have pointed out, a laundry list appears in the FTC, which I feel becomes yet another reason to add yet another rule to the list. And now we have a cycle.

Edited by fashionista79, Feb 29, 2012 @ 6:49 AM.

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#3756

TWoP Pembleton

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 10:03 AM

Please don't assume that we take action on every report in FTC. It's a heads up, and we assess, but sometimes the reporter is wrong or overreacting and we don't take action (but still mark it as handled).

That, and, probably half of the time when I see a report in FTC, I've already handled the issue when I saw it on my regular rounds.

In other words, reports in FTC do not mean that a particular thread gets more heavily moderated. If there are problems, the moderator will handle it whether or not it gets reported. If there aren't problems, the moderator will not take action on the reports (and if it's a recurring problem with one reporter, give that person a note telling him or her to chill).

In other words, don't worry about it. Yes, some people file more reports. But if you're following the site rules, it's nothing you need to worry about.

#3757

janet a

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:13 AM

But if you're following the site rules, it's nothing you need to worry about.


But the overmoderation *does* have a chilling effect on the conversation. Due to the significant uptick in moderation over the last six months or so, I'm down to about two threads that I even read any more, and I can't remember the last time I posted. There's sort of no point if the conversation is going to have the hell edited out of it every few days.

Of course, this is *just my opinion* and mileage may vary. But the result is that Comcast is getting far fewer of the site ads in front of my eyeballs, because I'm spending much less time here. Unintended consequences, I guess.
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#3758

bumblehare74

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:28 AM

I guess previews of upcoming episodes aren't considered spoilers, but I sure wish they would be. There is nothing worse than reading through a thread and all of a sudden someone mentions out of the blue what happened in the preview of the upcoming episode without any warning so that people can avoid reading it if they so choose. It really does ruin the show. I am one that avoids previews and spoilers at all costs.
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#3759

possibilities

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 2:08 PM

Being Human-UK version-- is currently airing simultaneously in both the UK and the US. But the UK is two or maybe 3 episodes ahead of the US. (NOTE: I'm not talking about the US remake; I'm talking about the original UK version which is also airing on BBCAmerica).

It's very confusing to read the thread. Even if you don't mind being spoiled, it can be hard to figure out what anyone is talking about, because even if the plot points are out of sync, the characters being referred to of course still have the same names. (And personally, I do mind being spoiled).

In the past, there was a lag time of several months, so it was easier for US viewers to just stay out of the thread and wait til the show started airing here. But now that both countries are showing the show at the same time, it's really not working.

I'm not sure if this type of situation has come up before, or how it's been handled if it was.

Can the mods ask UK viewers to use spoiler bars? Is there another way to sort it? I thought of asking everyone to note what episode they're talking about at the beginning of their post, but I'm not sure that would work, partly because people will probably forget, and also because sometimes the conversation is about a specific episode PLUS something more general.
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#3760

Lady V

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:37 PM

I am risking my fanatic status by chiming in here, and I realize that, but I think TWOP has changed so much, I am not sure if posting here is worth it anymore anyway.

Here is a list of the rules and notes from this season about what is OK to post in the RHBH thread. While I agree that mods end up spending a lot of time, perhaps it's because the rules are so long? By the way, I keep trying to post them all, but get a "the post is too long" message, so it may take a few posts to get them all in. I would hope that the mods will take a look at this list honestly and ask themselves the chicken and egg question.

The truth is, I have pretty much given up on TWOP, and it's largely due to such a complete change in policy. It USED to be "spare the snark, spoil the network" but now seems to be "spoil the network, spare the snark." Criticism of shows and networks use to be the focus at TWOP, and in a reality show, that would include the REALITY of what the network shows with their editing, vs what the "real" reality IS, as reported in blogs, the legitimate news, and the rest. This season had a bunch of that with Kim going to rehab (which we were not allowed to discuss even when she appeared drunk or under the influence on TV) and of course had a member who was now dead of suicide, and a wife pretending all kinds of things while facing lawsuits that showed her to be lying. Old TWOP? Would have torn that apart.

We couldn't even mention it.

We also had 3 nitpicky traffic cops who reported everything from a missed capital letter to a response being boards on boards for simply saying, "Loved that post, made me laugh, couldn't have said it better myself." and then went on to say a few more things. The hell?

Anyway, the rules we were to follow will be posted in subsequent posts. I would hope mods would try to look at these as a poster would. I hope I can do them in one post but we shall see.

The TWOP rules for RHBH: updated as they appear at the bottom.

Rules to follow if you want to keep the thread open:

The only things on topic in this thread are events as seen or discussed on the show. No outside links are to be posted unless theyíre to blogs or videos on the Bravo show site.

No more discussion of Russellís gift of a dog. Itís old news. Let it go.

If you want to play Nancy Drew and dig up info from Taylor or Russell's past, please find another place to post it, because it's off topic here. In other words, see #1.

If you want to assign any kind of blame or responsibility to anyone for Russell's death, please take it elsewhere. Discuss how sad it is, discuss how it will affect the family or show, but thatís it.

No nicknames. Also, please keep in mind that words like "bitch," "slut," and "whore" have specific meanings, and arenít collective nouns for women we dislike. A better choice would be to discuss and label someoneís behavior, rather than labeling the person herself. Please keep in mind that the site is here so that we can snark on TV shows, not foam at the mouth about them. Vitriol is not the same as wit.

Read the boards on boards rule, and then make sure your posts follow it. If you are posting here, you are expected to do your fellow posters the respect of posting your opinions about the show. Please keep your opinions of other posters here to yourself. Please keep your opinions about what the thread should be discussing or saying to yourself.

If you believe that another poster is breaking a rule, your choices are to ignore it, or ignore it and report it. Any other kind of response is boards on boards, and is just as much of a disruption to the thread as the original post was.

-------
Weíre back open in time for the newest episode. Please stick to talking about what youíve seen on the show. The thread isnít here so that you can try and convict either Taylor or Russell, so stay away from assigning blame or deciding what terrible/faultless people either of them are.
Stick to talking about the behavior you see on the show.
---
Posters, please move on from the discussion of whether or not Taylor was abused, and if sheís acting as if sheís abused, and all of your detailed knowledge of abused people. Itís been going on for weeks now, and itís beyond repetitive. The same thing with Russell and why he would commit suicide. I get that much of the show has been about that, but itís time to move on before it gets contentious in here.

Talk about the other housewives for a while, and what they actually did, and give up on the idea that you can get to the bottom of why Russell committed suicide by posting more about it, please.
---
Just a couple of reminders: No nicknames. Some of you are getting a bit sloppy in using Taylorís name. I havenít warned anyone for it yet, but consider this a heads up.

Also, some of you are throwing the word "fact" around far too loosely. A "fact" is that Camille and Taylor had words on the show. An exact quote of those words is a "fact." Anything beyond that is your interpretation of those facts. That makes it your opinion, which is not the same as a fact, so please donít present your opinion that way.

The same thing with the word "obvious." Assuming that because something is obvious to you it therefore has to be to the entire thread is telling other posters what they should be seeing on the show, and thatís boards on boards. Please donít.
---

NOTE: THE REST OF THE LIST OF NOTES AND RULES POST (because they wouldn't all fit here) HAS BEEN DELETED. FEEL FREE TO PM ME OR SIMPLY CLICK ON ALL POSTS BY HOWARD TO READ THEM FOR YOURSELF.

Edited by Lady V, Mar 2, 2012 @ 12:33 AM.

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#3761

MichaelaRae

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:38 PM

I think the main concern is that FTC, in a way, is being somewhat abused with nitpicking type reports. Yes, Teen Mom and RHoBH are "trouble" threads, and need more mod attention. However, to report every third post in the thread for minor infractions, is plain and simple shit stirring, IMO.


I completely agree with this. There's a difference between seeing a conversation getting heated and personal between two posters, or a poster who is consistently violating whatever rules exist, versus a poster who occasionally makes an error. (Hey, I get bored at lunch and check the FTC - the posts that are getting reported are the latter 95% of the time.)

The former approach to FTC and rule enforcement in general at TWOP is what used to occur (and often times FTC reports were often avoided by the posters in the thread who managed themselves; they would change the topic or point the offender toward the FAQ for assistance - this is now "boards on boards"); the second is what occurs now.

And it has had a chilling effect on the conversation in my opinion. In basement threads that once chugged on quite merrily and without more than emergency moderation as needed when a troll got loose or things got heated, now every third page is edited and snipped for minor infractions that frankly would not have even raised an eyebrow from mods in years past. Honestly, I feel like we are now being managed to the lowest common denominator instead of the highest.

Also, can I just say that I don't get why we can't keep talking about a topic if it interests the posters who are participating? If everyone's being polite and not violating rules, what's the harm? If you aren't interested in the subject, then introduce another one and see who else is interested in being part of that one. But part of being part of an online community, IMO, is that you will not always be interested in what another part of the group is very interested in. That doesn't make them circular or repetitive or wrong. And it's why the majority of threads I read now have become nothing more than "This is what I thought. The end." instead of an actual conversation.
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#3762

getbusychild

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:22 PM

Sorry to interrupt but is there anyone who can tell me how to mark the forums as unread? I was on the main forum page and accidentally hit the button that marks all the forums as read and have now lost my place in all of them. Is there a way to fix that or am I shit outta luck? Thanks to anyone who can help!

Edited by getbusychild, Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:24 PM.

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#3763

BKleinschmidt

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:56 PM

FWIW, I'd also like to add myself to the list of people dissatisfied with all the rules and regulations on the Real Housewives threads. As a matter of fact, I haven't posted in quite some due to the extensive amount of restrictions and nitpicking tattle tales.
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#3764

Arnold Robinson

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

Sorry to interrupt but is there anyone who can tell me how to mark the forums as unread?

I don't see an option for it. You might try deleting your cookies and logging back in, but my suspicion is that that kind of data is stored server-side. If it is, then you probably are SOL, unfortunately.
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#3765

getbusychild

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:32 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, Arnold Robinson, but no dice. My fault trying to surf the site with a wiggly 3 year old in my lap. I appreciate it though!
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#3766

avaleigh

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 10:03 PM

FWIW, I'd also like to add myself to the list of people dissatisfied with all the rules and regulations on the Real Housewives threads.


I'm glad this issue is being addressed and I'd like to chime in as well.

I especially want to say that IMO it's no wonder that the discussions become circular when so many things that are actually about the show are considered to be "off-topic".

I also agree with those who say that it does not create a good feeling in terms of posting when you realize that there are a few select posters who are seemingly waiting to bust you for the slightest infraction. It's made posting less enjoyable in my opinion. I'm not saying that posters shouldn't use FTC to report someone if it happens to be necessary. But when individual posters are finding multiple reasons to post on an almost daily basis, often for the smallest reason, it starts to feel a little bit outrageous.

As far as the ever growing list of rules--I understand the need for certain rules and I appreciate the staff at TWoP for making the effort to not let various threads get vicious and out of control. That being said, there are so many rules in the RHoBH thread that I can totally understand why people including myself are starting to feel a little frustrated. Some of the "off topic" things that were brought up in the thread seemed quite harmless from where I was sitting and I still don't understand why people can't bring them up if they want to since they happened on the show.

ETA

One other thing I forgot to add regarding issues that are off topic but related to the show. I understand wanting to contain the discussion on some level. What's odd to me though is the lack of consistency. On the Jersey Shore thread for example there are all kinds of posts that have to do with events that haven't been seen on the show. The discussion of After Hours is allowed, info on Ron and Sam's real life break up, twitter info, spin-off reality shows, Angelina post-show, and most recently speculation regarding Snooki's pregnancy. None of these things take place on the show but we're able to discuss them freely and I appreciate that. The RHoNJ thread also seems to be a bit more relaxed in terms of allowing non-show info to enter into the discussion.

Obviously with the rules that have been listed the situation is very different with the RHoBH thread. If a housewife goes on a talk show like WWHL (or any other talk show) and addresses something that specifically happened on the show in an effort to clarify something for the audience, why wouldn't something like that be permitted for discussion? Similarly, I don't tweet, but if somebody wants to post a tweet from one of the housewives because it relates to something that occurred on the show, why not permit that to be part of the discussion especially if it clarifies something?

Edited by avaleigh, Feb 29, 2012 @ 10:42 PM.

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#3767

MichaelaRae

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 10:15 PM

Just for the record, for me this isn't about the RBoBH forum (or not just that forum). I don't watch the show, don't read any threads for that show. I feel there is (IMO, of course) over-modding all over the site and has given it a completely different tone than the TWoP I once enjoyed.
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#3768

reneejocelyn

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:11 PM

You know what? This may get me shitcanned, but I'm chiming in too. I have had more warnings in the last year than I ever had in the last 10+ years of TWoP. My posting style didn't change - if anything, it's LESS snarky than it used to be. The board style changed and it's been since the Bravo takeover.

What is considered warnable now was tame then. Half the shit we used to say would have been an insta ban now. I admit I have occasionally posted to FTC if it was something I read that was over the line personal attack...but at times it feels like I am constantly having to edit and reword a post just to avoid a warning. And it's hard to do that when you are getting warnings and suspensions for stuff that was tame on this very board not that long ago. Not to mention there are some mods (a minority to be sure, but a couple) who seem to take their job too seriously and have ruined threads because of it.

I don't participate here as much as I used to either, because this new version of overly modded TWoP isn't the TWoP I loved since I started posting here as a Buffy watcher. Reading what got the RHOBH shut down is amazing to me because if you go back through the Jonathan and Victoria thread for Amazing Race, or Scott Savol on American Idol, that crap is nothing compared to what was said in those threads.

And it makes me sad.

No doubt I'll end up banned because of this, but it's nice to know I'm not the only person who misses the TWoP of old and that there has been a huge change in tone.

Edited by reneejocelyn, Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:21 PM.

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#3769

kariyaki

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:46 PM

I personally don't have any problem with the modding, I just get annoyed at the FTC tattletales. The mods here are PAID to do what they do (I assume), so what are people getting out of ratfinking on everyone. I hate having to look over my shoulder and second-guess every single thing I type. I use FTC to report if someone messed up their tags or created duplicate threads, I don't care if someone accidentally forgot to use the shift key once in their post.

As far as the off-topicness in some of the threads goes, why not create larger forums for them so that a broader spectrum can be discussed, like say, The Simpsons forum? That show was never recapped, yet a forum was created because I remember the thread would get out of hand very easily. If it's a matter of space, I'm sure the Buffy, Angel, Gilmore Girls, Veronica Mars, X-Files, Scrubs, Friends, Arrested Development, etc sections could be condensed to single threads, as there is virtually no traffic in those sections anymore.

Edited by kariyaki, Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:49 PM.

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#3770

RennieGirl

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:06 AM

posted by TWOP Pembleton

In other words, don't worry about it. Yes, some people file more reports. But if you're following the site rules, it's nothing you need to worry about.


Unfortunatley, that's not entirely accurate with some moderators. Sometimes, there is apparently so much faith put in the frequent FTC posters that even when they are wrong (blatantly wrong about a factual matter like whether something was on the show or not) the "offending" post is still edited.

But there is no appeal process that feels secure when one sees this sort of thing to say, "Hey, frequent FTC poster can make a mistake too!" AFAIC even posting this feels incredibly daring since I don't want to get in trouble.

Edited by RennieGirl, Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:09 AM.

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#3771

TWoP Pembleton

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:12 AM

I can't specifically address the RHOBH stuff because that's not now nor has it ever been my thread to moderate.

I can tell you that I've been a moderator here since day one of Mighty Big TV (site name before TWoP) and if anything, my moderation style has gotten looser, not more strict. I let a lot of stuff go now that, years ago, I would have given a note or warning. I think it's because I'm old and feeble.

I would have to let Strega address anything else. Just wanted to chime in about the FTC stuff from my personal perspective.

#3772

Sigh Die

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 1:18 AM

Regarding the Real Housewife threads, and in particular the Scroll of Rules posted by Lady V...

I think there is a purpose and need for rules, but when the rules do nothing but create an atmosphere of tension, fear, and frustration while doing little to correct the problems the rules were meant to deal with, it is time to examine the list of rules itself and maybe make some changes. People have posted here before that if some rules were changed to make the Real Housewife threads more user-friendly most of the problems would solve themselves, and I agree. But the response is always that if posters would just obey the rules in the first place, everything would be fine. But the posters won't do that (the mods argue) so the answer is always "more rules" and closing threads when those rules aren't followed. It is a vicious circle and to complain about it is to risk being banned.

I think it is time to consider the possibility that the problem is not that posters won't obey the rules, the problem is that posters can't obey all these rules, not if they want to have a meaningful conversation. The Real Housewives are a reality show, with news coverage of events that happen to the cast members before, during and after the shows are taped, things which are not always part of the show but nonetheless greatly effect the people being discussed and shape how posters view their behavior on the show itself. Expecting posters to not want to talk about this stuff is wildly unrealistic. The RH show threads are moderated like the shows are dramas or sitcoms where all talk of stuff beyond the program itself is off topic, when in the case of the RH cast members, such subjects are not really off topic. It is not the same thing as talking about who Jerry Seinfeld is dating in the Seinfeld thread. These people aren't actors playing roles, they are sharing parts of their lives with viewers and when something happens in their lives, people want to include those developments in their conversations. It just doesn't seem like a crime to me, but it is treated like one because it is against some rule, and rules cannot be broken. It seems like the rules have become more important than the conversations they were intended to support and there is something seriously wrong with that.

As far as the off-topicness in some of the threads goes, why not create larger forums for them so that a broader spectrum can be discussed


People asked for a Real Housewife forum with different kinds of threads ages ago and the response was basically "why should we go to the trouble of creating a larger forum just so you all can have more room to not obey the rules" and any one who pressed it was scolded. It was a perfect example of what I am talking about - rules are king and we serve them, they don't serve us. The rules can't change, the posters have to.

I personally think that if the mods would acknowledge that these scrolls of rules don't work and endlessly warning and banning posters doesn't work and deleting posts and closing threads doesn't work and took the energy they use doing all that and applied it to creating a meaningful, workable structure for a forum for these shows, everyone would be much happier. If we had a forum that that allowed for discussions about events in the media and specific show threads where people could talk to their heart's content about Russell giving Kennedy a dog and specific cast member threads where people could talk endlessly about Taylor's black eye, all without derailing all current episode conversations and boring posters who have lost interest in those topics, most of the problems all these rules exists to deal with would vanish over night.

Edited by Sigh Die, Mar 1, 2012 @ 1:26 AM.

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#3773

snowflakey

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 4:20 AM

avaleigh

I understand wanting to contain the discussion on some level. What's odd to me though is the lack of consistency.


I get that some threads/forums need more structure or rules to keep things civil. But I'm also finding that some threads are also rife and filled with things that probably shouldn't belong there. The only difference is that those threads aren't being reported. You referenced Jersey Shore, and I don't watch that show, but I noticed the same thing in Kim and Kourtney Take New York. Posters were referencing alleged sex acts and making rude remarks about Kim's dating preferences and relationships. None of it was caught by a mod or reported, so I figured that I was just being oversensitive. I found that some of the comments went past "snark" and were down right rude and disgusting. Since it wasn't something that was being addressed by the paid moderators, and wasn't being reported as over the line by other users, I figured it was just me, so I stopped going into the thread.
So there does seem to be a double standard when it comes to some of the threads. Where it is not okay to call a Real Housewife a lying famewhore, because it may cause a fight. However, it is perfectly acceptable to talk about Kim's sex life in crude terms because no one is disagreeing in the thread.
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#3774

quaintirene

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 9:43 AM

Please add me to the list of people posting about what's going on on the RH threads. The rules there are constantly shifting and unevenly applied. There's a general impression of someone hovering over them with a very itchy finger just waiting to (snip), delete and finally lock. It's a shame because it cuts down the wit and insight on the board and leaves us with a constantly narrowing focus on what the ho'wives wear and what they eat. I understand that there has to be constant vigilance to make sure the board doesn't degenerate into a free-for-all. However I believe this vigilance is being taken a bit too far right now.

Edited to add:

Can we get a real, hardcore definition of what is 'boards on boards'? Right now it's amorphous and can be used any time a mod or a modlet wants to ding a poster. Let's take the example of the following innocuous statement: 'Count me in on Lisa's love-train.' 'Love train' is a TWoP cliche, much beloved of posters, and it's normally said with tongue firmly in cheek but indicates support/approval of a particular character and/or what she or he did that week. So far all well and good. But that annoying little word 'in' can get you into trouble. It can be construed as boards on boards. Because you might be indicating that you are with all the other posters who have said they like Lisa. And this was exactly what happened to me last time I got (snip)ped. These days when I post on those threads I check my words very very carefully. I even pm'd a fellow poster whose posts have been uniformly funny, insightful and well-expressed because I thought what s/he had written might unwittingly bring the modlets down on her like a swarm of wasps and I wanted to make sure she didn't get dinged. The best snark I'm seeing on these boards currently comes via PM privately from poster to poster. I think that is such a shame.

Edited by quaintirene, Mar 1, 2012 @ 10:04 AM.

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#3775

AuntiePam

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:46 PM

The Real Housewives are a reality show, with news coverage of events that happen to the cast members before, during and after the shows are taped, things which are not always part of the show but nonetheless greatly effect the people being discussed and shape how posters view their behavior on the show itself. Expecting posters to not want to talk about this stuff is wildly unrealistic. The RH show threads are moderated like the shows are dramas or sitcoms where all talk of stuff beyond the program itself is off topic, when in the case of the RH cast members, such subjects are not really off topic


Sigh Die, well said.

I would add that reality shows are all about publicity. Bravo wants their reality stars to get attention. The stars themselves want attention. More attention means higher ratings. It seems counter-intuitive for TWOP (owned by Bravo) to try to limit the attention their stars receive by limiting discussion about those stars, on a forum owned by Bravo.
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#3776

Lady V

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 5:26 PM

I agree with almost all of the posts here in the last two days. In the olden days, I might have said "WORD." and left it at that.

Strega, I know you are the head mod, but I don't know if you watch the housewife shows. So, when you read that long list of "rules" and "notes" I posted in earlier, keep in mind that is not even a complete list. Also, the two main storylines on RHBH this season were:

Taylor's abuse.
Kim and Kyle's relationship and Kim's drinking/drugging.

Both of these are "off topic" or posters were told to stop discussing them multiple times.

For example, Kim and Kyle had a huge blowout last season about their rivalry in the old days as child actors. That blowout carried over to this season and was referenced many times. So while someone who doesn't watch the show may thing Kyle's less sucessful acting career was "off topic?" In reality, that seems to be a major underlying issue between the two sisters that helped fuel everything that happened on the show. I'm just throwing out a few examples here, not trying to beat a dead horse.

I could do this in depth with most of the "banned" subjects, but won't. Not discuss the abuse, when that is pretty much this season's entire story? Even Kyle's splits are "off topic" though she did them twice and they were funny and odd, inviting wit? Paris Hilton was brought up because Kyle was pretending shock at Brandi's style of dress, and hello? In addition, Kyle and Kim have mentioned Paris' name several times. Mauricio's income? Why is that off topic, especially when his change of jobs was discussed on the show, and Lisa discussed his commision selling her house in her (allowed) Bravo blog?

As far as the banned words? Who can remember all of them? What about posters who go from one thread to another, and what is completely fine in one thread is warning worthy in RHBH, and I am not talking about the pinned post stuff, but the endless "notes." These shows repeat all the time on Bravo, and someone chinming in WHEN they watch shouldn't be this big of a hassle.

Also, I get tired of reading YMMV, or IMO, or JMO constantly. I always read posts and KNOW that is the poster's opinion. That whole "opinion as fact" endless complaint by the 3? Is rarely true. When it is, it's obvious.

Not allowing links also seems, frankly ridiculous to me. For example, Lisa spoke with a network local news show yesterday, and the entire interview was about the show, Lisa clarifying things that happened on the show, and discussing her feelings about other castmates. There have also been several interviews done by cast members about whether or not they will return. All are off topic by these rules, not that it matters since the thread is closed. Taylor's book is on the best seller's list and all about the storyline on this show, and it has been examined and refuted. All "off topic."

You had 3 people making dozens of posts a day in the Traffic Court forum about RHBH, and a mod who always thanked them, though a couple of other mods suggested they get a life or ease up. IMO, THAT was what caused the extra work for that thread, that and the endless list of rules from the Mod. One day you were subbing in that thread Strega, and commented "those are fine" a couple of times, or left them alone. The next day when Howard was back, the SAME posts were reported by the SAME 3, all got a "thanks and handled" from Howard, and posts were snip(ed). I mean seriously?

TWOP has restrictive but useful rules in the FAQ. In a few threads "special" rules might be needed, such as a show that has already aired in another country and the like. However, in most threads, I think the FAQ rules should suffice, and be followed.

I also agree with others who, for several years, have suggested a mini thread for all of the housewife shows. Also? Frankly? A new mod for those shows, and regular TWOP rules, not this endless list that drives posters away from your site and to other boards.

Not being allowed to discuss the reality behind reality shows, or any of the significant storylines leaves what? Certainly very little that is interesting or insightful and is so far from the original mission of TWOP that I can't even see that shore. The intent here is in solving the problems, not in venting. I hope that these posts, from everyone, are taken in that spirit.

ETA one last thing.

For reality shows, prohibiting "real time information" makes the threads minefields, phony, and kind of ridiculous. We end up tiptoeing around, pretending we don't know Russell died, or someone has given birth, etc. If nothing else, please ban that restriction. As another poster said, these aren't scripted dramas, and when everyone knows something but has to pretend they don't? It's artificial and doesn't help intelligent conversation.

Edited by Lady V, Mar 1, 2012 @ 6:24 PM.

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#3777

Shortcake2001

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 5:45 PM

If I may add my two cents on this discussion, it seems ridiculous to limit the Beverly Hills thread and the Teen Mom thread to what is shown on the show and not discuss what is currently going on with the participants.

For example, one participant on the show has become engaged to another and had a miscarriage, but on the show itself, she is still married. It makes no sense to not discuss the doom of her marriage and post comments which pertain to that time of the filming when we already know the outcome. It just seems ridiculous to post, "I hope these two work things out, but I have a feeling they won't last." Well, of course we know they won't last.

To use the Kardashian thread as an example, that thread is a constant source of gossip, rant, gossip links, real-time information, etc. and yet, the flow of the conversation tends to get back on track when a new episode airs. Why are there different rules for different threads?

As it is, there were some posts reported in the FTC about some posts in the Teen Mom thread and it seems by reading the mod's posts, those posts have been taken care of, but in reality they haven't been touched. If Howard were still the mod, those posts would have been removed already, but Gadget tends to think there is nothing wrong with those posts because they remain intact. So, does this mean that each mod views the rules differently on each thread? If Howard is no longer the mod on certain threads, why do the rules remain on top of certain threads?

Edited by Shortcake2001, Mar 1, 2012 @ 5:49 PM.

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#3778

freespeech

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:18 PM

Lady V said

Not being allowed to discuss the reality behind reality shows, or any of the significant storylines leaves what? Certainly very little that is interesting or insightful and is so far from the original mission of TWOP that I can't even see that shore. The intent here is in solving the problems, not in venting. I hope that these posts, from everyone, are taken in that spirit.

ETA one last thing.

For reality shows, prohibiting "real time information" makes the threads minefields, phony, and kind of ridiculous. We end up tiptoeing around, pretending we don't know Russell died, or someone has given birth, etc. If nothing else, please ban that restriction. As another poster said, these aren't scripted dramas, and when everyone knows something but has to pretend they don't? It's artificial and doesn't help intelligent conversation.

These are great points, and I agree with other posters above as well. I haven't posted in the HW threads here since about 2 years ago, when a couple of pages containing on-topic, non-rule breaking posts (per the rules here at that time) were deleted in the RH of NY thread with seemingly no rhyme or reason. There were some rule-breaking posts in their midst. I had made sure my posts followed the rules but then poof! my posts and many others had disappeared.

I see that there are still pinned posts by the mods at the top of some of the RH threads. For example, for RH of NJ, Strega has posted (in part) "Just so we're all clear on this: Your posts need to be about the show. Not vaguely related to the show; about the show. And that's the only thing they should be about. In other words, if it didn’t happen on the show, it’s off-topic to discuss it here."

I just clicked on the last page of the RH of NJ thread. The top post I see on that page is certainly about the show. I think this post is intelligent, informative, and adds to the discussion. However, it's not about what was seen on the actual show. In the RH of BH thread it would have been reported and probably 'snipped.'

PhilMarlowe2
Fanatic
Jan 1, 2012 @ 11:32 am

I believe it was reported that season 4 went into production so quickly to both capitalize on the still-unfolding cast rivalries and also to capitalize on the Guidice's legal problems. IIRC, the decision to go into immediate production occurred after the huge ratings of the Christening blow-up. What I find interesting to consider is that they must have done one of the typical "end of the season" finale parties for Season 3, but clearly scrapped it in favor of using footage from Season 4 to set up where the show is going (i.e. Teresa vs. the rest of the cast). I wonder how that final dinner went.

There should be more consistency in the thread rules. What's OK to post about one RH franchise is verboten in another. I know it's been suggested to have a show thread and a 'show in the media' thread for a few of these reality shows. I think this would make sense and be a start to a meaningful discussion.

Edited by freespeech, Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:19 PM.

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#3779

Shortcake2001

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:26 PM

I would also like to point out with regards to certain members reporting posts in the FTC, why is it okay for them to bait posters into going off topic and then report those members? Shouldn't that in itself be an infraction? If the member knows members are off topic, why bait them even more? So they can report more posts? Let me give you an example.

[No. Granted, calling out another poster by name here is a good example of baiting but... not one I'm okay with . -- Strega]

Edited by Strega, Mar 1, 2012 @ 11:17 PM.

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#3780

TWoP Pembleton

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:31 PM

Okay, I think your concerns about the specific thread rules have been heard, and it's becoming a bit of a pile-on at this point. If you have concerns about a specific moderator, you should take it up with that moderator via PM or take it to Strega (head moderator).

Let's move on, please.