704 replies to this topic

[MoreRidonkulous]

Think about it. On one show, we've got a ton of "duos". This show is REALLY big on the duos.

Obviously Chuck and The Spy Chick are one "duo". A combination of action movie buddy/buddy and a very loose romantic pairing.

Chuck and Tom Green Junior, err.. I mean Morgan are another obvious relationship pairing, of another type entirely. Less "buddy/buddy" and more alpha/sidekick (Chuck isn't an alpha figure to anyone else except Morgan).

Chuck and his sister are a third pairing. At least in the first episode you get a real, convincing sense of closeness between the two of them which, in some ways, even excludes Cap'n Awesome and Morgan.

And I think the CIA Chick and Adam Baldwin work as a fourth kind of duo. They hate and distrust each other, but come from the same world. They have history, as antagonists, but have to cooperate on this. It sets them apart, together, from all of the other characters on the show.

I suppose the sister and Cap'n Awesome count as a pairing, but I think its a deliberately shallow relationship portrayal, because the Captain really IS just comic relief.

[Ethereal Zoe]

I'm actually very interested in the Chuck/Captain Awesome relationship. First, it intrigues me that CA is so cool and hip but still seems to be intelligent and to care about Chuck as a person. Second, I think there's a good deal of admiration on Chuck's part towards CA, even if there's some envy as well.

Also, CA's supportive response to the group hug in the pilot just won me over immediately. I'd really like to see more between those two characters. In fact, I really hope we see more of CA than we do of Morgan or any other supporting character. I know that's wishful thinking but it's gotta be helpful to have a doctor around when you're fighting spies, right?

[Satanic Counsel]

Then there's the antagonistic relationship between Chuck and Harry (I don't even mind the cheap visual pun of him being bald) and the duo that's crux of the entire show: Chuck and the late, obviously great, Bryce. His ghost will hover over the show for the total of its existence.

[MeatierMeteor]

I hope we get to eventually see more of a group dynamic of just The Nerd Herd. They were all sitting around together, so there has to be some comedy gold there, right? I am totally in love with that Willy Wonka-looking dude Jeff, who "thinks outside the box" and gave that creepy wink. I need more of that guy. And I just feel like there are so many possibilities for TNH to become unwitting heroes.

[krishnaa]

People wonder if Sarah will be zany enough for this show, but I think she and Chuck meshed together very well in the pilot. And hopefully Sarah will loosen up because of how adorably awesome Chuck is. There were a couple moments that reinforced this for me...

When Chuck does that whole "Vicky Vale" song and stops at the sight of her, he says, "It's Batman's girlfriend." And she goes, "And that makes it better?" Which I love, because she isn't exactly laughing at him, but she isn't exactly letting him "off the hook", either.

The dinner flirtations. Despite every promo I've seen, "I can be your own baggage handler!" is never not funny.

Flirting after dinner! Very easy chemistry between them.

The dance sequence. Heeee. First, her dancng is both sexy and weird. Second, Chuck's reactions and his "Chuck" vision are both so adorably wrought over Sarah.

I only hope that if Sarah and Chuck do get together, Sarah doesn't say Bryce's name mid-chuck. If you know what I mean...

[Mrs. Whatsit]

I must say that I've never watched Everwood, so the actress who plays the sister is not even remotely annoying to me. In fact, I heart her, and the moment between them right before Chuck goes on his date was lovely. Even better, she's got a smidgen of dorkette in her, between the fussing over her brother in general and in particular to his love life.

The "Group hug? Awesome!" line is still killing me a day afterwards...

Anyone else think that Sarah knew about Bryce's double agent life? (He was a double agent, right?)

[flickchick85]

The Chuck/Ellie relationship is definitely my favorite relationship on the show so far. It was just instantly genuine to me, which hasn't happened w/ family members on a show for me since Gilmore Girls. I love how Ellie can do something as annoyingly-sisterly as throw a birthday for Chuck with all of her friends, while at the same time actively caring about his general happiness and wanting the best for him (so of course, she disapproves of Morgan). I also got the sense that Chuck doesn't just live with his sister and her boyfriend b/c it's all the he can afford, but that he genuinely enjoys being around them.

Anyone else think that Sarah knew about Bryce's double agent life? (He was a double agent, right?)

And this? Yeah, she totally knew, or at least suspected. She didn't seem to be in shock or disbelief over anything that happened with Bryce, so I think we'll be seeing a big undercurrent of bitterness with Sarah that Bryce just ultimately proved her suspicions correct or chose the other side over her. So if she didn't already have major trust issues, she will now. As a result, I think she'll be pretty distant with Chuck for quite while, so I don't predict a romance for them any time soon. Of course, I do believe she'll be reluctantly charmed by him slowly over a long period of time (with lots of sexual tension in the meantime, of course)!

Chuck will probably get another love interest here pretty soon (Besides the inevitable Return of Jill).

[CreedogV]

I am totally in love with that Willy Wonka-looking dude Jeff

So I'm not the only one who thought that Jeff looked like Willy Wonka! I second more Nerd Herd interaction.

I'd also like to see more Ellie/Sarah interaction. It's not going to be long before the double date plot arises, and I'd love to see Ellie really grilling Sarah about what the relationship is really about. For one, Sarah's going to have to lie convincingly a lot. Also, I think it's going to be through Ellie that Sarah will tip her hand about her true feelings for Chuck.

Afterwards, I liked to see Sarah be put in the position where to keep up the facade with Chuck, she's going to have to become friends with Ellie.

Edited by CreedogV, Oct 21, 2007 @ 8:37 PM.

[Jubi]

Y'know, as much as I enjoy the chemistry between Sarah and Chuck, I'm having a difficult time seeing how they're going to handle it without ruining it.

They could just never go there and push a will they/won't they, but the chemistry between the characters seems way too strong to pull that off, plus both characters seem like emotional saps. I have a hard time believing that these two could resist the urge to be together for even months, let alone years. I mean, have you seen Chuck?! I know she's supposed to be tough and all, but come on! There's no way she can resist the guy... :P

They could bring back Jill. Or Bryce. Or Bryce and Jill. But triangles/rectangles get old quickly. Plus they already established Chuck and Sarah as a couple to root for at the beginning of the season, so it kind of makes them both look like assholes if they're each in a relationship with someone else when they really want to be with each other. That might work on a more "realistic" show, but this show is like sugary fantasyland, so I think it would drag the characters down.

They could have them get together, but how does that work? It makes Sarah look silly for entering into another relationship with another coworker/partner. And it makes Chuck look silly for entering into a relationship with a woman that he knows had a relationship with her former partner. Not to mention that it also makes Sarah seem even more unprofessional--is that okay? Is that what they're going for?

I'm totally on board just based on the chemistry, but I don't think I could handle them having that kind of chemistry and never acting on it. I also can't really see how they can be together as a couple in a way that makes any kind of sense and isn't destructive in some way.

And I'm sure it's a bit early to even be worrying about it, but hey, writing about Chuck and Sarah beats writing an 8 page paper any day...

[Wild Roses]

Jubi, I've been wondering how they will actually put Sarah and Chuck together too without ruining the show. All I could think of is that they would get so used to meta-dating that they wouldn't realize at some point that they had actually started dating. It is a safe and dull route, but it wouldn't ruin the S/R relationship or chemistry.

Or, another route might be Chuck's 6 month expiration date thingie is concerned. Somehow the fallout of that could lead to them realizing that they should be actually dating each other.

It definitely is going to be a delicate and difficult balance. I'm not about worried this season, but I'm worried about future seasons because at some point the meta-dating is going to end and they will start actually dating. Or, they'll have a "meta-break up" (which confess would be interesting to watch if they are able to correctly key us in that Sarah doesn't want to break up with Chuck in real or meta form because she likes him but still has to break up with him due to her job and his safety). Or, what if they actually dated dated (i.e. not meta-date) and broke up? I don't want to see the horror of Alias season 3 rehash on my screen. Or Alias season 4's finale.

I know I'm thinking way in the future but I've been wondering how the show writers will handle the chemistry as well since there are so many ways to screw it up.

[Aunty Mib]

What I'd like to see as a development; Chuck gets over his infatuation with Sarah, sees past the 'hot chick' and thinks of her as just one of his friends WHILE Sarah sees past the 'nerd loser' and starts falling in love with him.

I'd love to see an episode when Chuck meets a girl he really likes and wants to have a 'real relationship' with but is stimied by the need to have a 'fake relationship' with Sarah.

[Ebongreen]

I've been thinking about the future of Chuck & Sarah too, and haven't managed to come up with much.

Three obvious directions:

• Chuck joins in spying more full-time, squashing the carefully-built premise of saving the world on $11/hr;
• Sarah quits spying full-time & goes freelancing with Chuck;
• Sarah gets a permanent job as Chuck's handler/babysitter, fully endorsed by the higher-ups.

The first one could make this into even more Alias-lite than it is now, but it could also demolish the humor infrastructure that supports the main characters so well. We could lose the Captain, Ellie, the Nerd Herd, Morgan (note who I put last :-) )... and that wouldn't be any fun.

The second option would involve severe sanctions against the would-be lovebirds by the former agencies - John Casey being only moderate-grade on the totem pole. How about "every agent the US employs wants to turn your buttocks into low-grade organic fertilizer"?

The third one seems the most likely, but seems too easy somehow. Really, you'd be talking about marriage-like commitment, and ... I just don't see that flying.

I don't see a lot of "give" in their situation (or the show's premise) to have them really couple up, much to my dismay. The other options I've thought up you really don't want to hear, because they would invite wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of stylin' clothes.

[arc]

I like that Chuck and Ellie are close, but even considering that Chuck is a bit of a burnout due to Bryce-related issues, her interest in his romantic life is a smidge too much.

[petpluto22]

I like that Chuck and Ellie are close, but even considering that Chuck is a bit of a burnout due to Bryce-related issues, her interest in his romantic life is a smidge too much.

What I love about Ellie's interest in Chuck's romantic life is that she really isn't. She likes Sarah, but she isn't grilling Chuck for details or showing any of that creepy interest every member of the Camden family seemed to share. She just wants him to be happy, and wants to know that he's happy. And she definitely likes having someone else to hang out with when she's with her brother aside from Morgan, and I can understand that as well.

[krishnaa]

I hope the writers know what to do with Sarah and Chuck's relationship. It would be pretty bad planning to have this great set up but nowhere to go.

[bearlock7]

I agree, [b]petpluto22[/i]. Ellie's interest in Chuck's life and relationship with Sarah doesn't really strike me as creepy. She just seems genuinely happy that her brother has found someone -- and that it's someone she likes.

Given Ellie and Chuck's relationship, I wonder what happened to the Bartowski parents. From the way Ellie and Chuck have talked about him, I assume their father is dead but there's been no mention of their mother. Given Ellie's mother-hen treatment of Chuck, I'm guessing she's been dead or out of the picture for some time now.

I also wonder where they're going to go with Chuck and Sarah -- interesting speculation from everyone. I love their chemistry, but the set-up does provide some problems. I'm guessing they'll throw some human obstacles in their way. Some girl might catch Chuck's eye, Bryce might not be dead, and Casey's always around to stare creepily through windows. I'm not worrying yet, though. I'll just enjoy the ride for now.

[Jubi]

I hope the writers know what to do with Sarah and Chuck's relationship. It would be pretty bad planning to have this great set up but nowhere to go.

I have no doubt that they have a plan. I just have doubts as to whether I will actually like the plan! I am hoping that the writers for this show are all insane geniuses who manage to come up with something that isn't problematic in the ways already mentioned, i.e. doesn't require losing the Buy More/Nerd Herd stuff and doesn't destroy the credibility and likability (according to my spell check, this is an actual word! Yay!) of Chuck or Sarah. The solution doesn't have to be entirely realistic on a real-world level, because the show is already pretty ridiculous in that respect, but I do hope it's emotionally believable and satisfying.

As for Chuck and Ellie's parents, I think there's a clue in the fact that their father was mentioned twice in the first two episodes. If the parents were just dead and not important to the story, they wouldn't have needed a mention in the first two episodes. The writers could easily have just saved the parental bits for later on in the season when viewers would start to care about the characters and look more closely and wonder where the parents were (because I don't think, "Where the heck are their parents?!" would be the first thing that most people would wonder about a couple of late 20s adults [well, maybe if you're an Alias fan]). By mentioning their father twice, and leaving out any mention of their mother, they seemed to be trying to draw attention to the father. Not to mention that, as bearlock7 pointed out, there was a strong implication that he's dead, except that they didn't actually say so, so it could be a red herring. I don't really want to see Alias levels of parental angst on this show, but I wouldn't mind if there was something strange going on with the dad.

Edited by Jubi, Oct 21, 2007 @ 5:45 PM.

[rowanceleste]

I like that Chuck and Ellie are close, but even considering that Chuck is a bit of a burnout due to Bryce-related issues, her interest in his romantic life is a smidge too much.

What I love about Ellie's interest in Chuck's romantic life is that she really isn't. She likes Sarah, but she isn't grilling Chuck for details or showing any of that creepy interest every member of the Camden family seemed to share. She just wants him to be happy, and wants to know that he's happy.

I agree that I don't think Ellie's interest in Chuck's romantic life is creepy. She's in a happy relationship and she wants the same thing for her little brother. She's not trying to marry him off to the first available girl and asking for nieces or nephews, she just wants him to get over Jill and move on with his life, so he's not stagnating in the past.

[Danny Snow]

When you have a successful older sibling and a less successful younger sibling, you see that Ellie/Chuck dynamic a lot. She's a needler, and she loves her brother and thus she lovingly needles her brother.

I agree that Chuck and Ellie's relationship is my favorite so far and not just because those two are, individually, my two favorite characters. Josh Schwartz just writes really good siblings: On The O.C. we had Seth and Ryan, here we got Chuck and Ellie.

As for relationships, I definitely foresee Jill (Chuck's ex who Bryce stole) coming back into the picture and being somehow connected to the all the spy stuff, having gotten into it with Bryce (although they would have already ended as he was dating Sarah when he was killed). I think Chuck and Jill will get back together, and she and Sarah won't like each other, and ultimately Chuck will realize what he had with Jill is over.

[bearlock7]

I really enjoy the Ellie and Chuck relationship. It's so sweet and genuine. Or at least, it seems genuine to me -- I've never had a brother.

That said, though, I think I'm more interested in the Chuck and Sarah dynamic. Partly because it's more complicated and "up in the air". Also because I find Sarah and the mysteries surrounding her very intriguing.

At some point, their current set-up is going to cause problems. Whether Chuck meets someone else or not, the fake nature of the relationship will surely start to frustrate him after a while. And it's already obvious that Sarah's developing real feelings for him -- which has all kinds of dangers. If Jill and/or Bryce were to make an appearance, we'd probably get some major emotional fireworks.

But, as has already been pointed out, all the relationships on this show are interesting: Chuck/Sarah, Chuck/Ellie, Chuck/Casey, Sarah/Casey. Even Ellie/Captain Awesome and Chuck/CA have potential. And Chuck/Morgan, but on that one I waver between "sweet" and "creepy".

[KeithV]

I love the angst and tension between Chuck and Sarah but I don't think there's a shot in hell they'd put them together till much later. I mean I think it would have to be after they had gotten their money out of the show or ran out of stuff to write. I do think that if they did it sooner that it'd be especially hard to figure out how to incorporate it into writting it for the missions week after week.

[MoreRidonkulous]

I agree that I don't think Ellie's interest in Chuck's romantic life is creepy. She's in a happy relationship and she wants the same thing for her little brother.

I agree that Chuck and Ellie's relationship is my favorite so far and not just because those two are, individually, my two favorite characters. Josh Schwartz just writes really good siblings: On The O.C. we had Seth and Ryan, here we got Chuck and Ellie.

I think its damn hard to write good siblings on TV without falling into cliche. The good thing about Ellie and Chuck is that I think it skirts most of the worst ones.

Just an innocent scene like the "game night" scene communicates a lot about their relationship--the fact that they can sit in a room together and socialize in that fashion.

Many adult siblings, especially of opposite genders, don't function well as friends. But I think it's clear that Chuck and Ellie do. It's not an equal partnership, but then again neither is the friendship between Chuck and Morgan.

Edited by MoreRidonkulous, Oct 22, 2007 @ 1:03 PM.

[mswyrr]

The hurt (and ashamed?) expression on Sarah's face when she discovers that Chuck knew about her bugging his room and sees the picture in the trash was a big 'ship moment, but another thing I really loved in that scene was how Sarah tried to reassure Chuck that it's okay to be so trusting. It seemed like that's something she treasures about him, and she didn't want him to go changing it, or diss himself for it.

There's something so genuine about that, the way that really liking somebody makes you want want them to keep being the awesome person that you think they are.

I gotta say it: Awwww! These sweet, crazy kids!

Edited by mswyrr, Oct 30, 2007 @ 1:09 AM.

[Ebongreen]

Rather than quote the entire post that kennyab made, I'll just link and select chunks.

I don't mind the repeated "trust" theme popping up as the series starts. ... It's good for {Chuck} to have a healthy amount of distrust.

The important thing is, he doesn't have a healthy amount of distrust, regardless of the character's background and current situation. That's why he's such a wonderfully sympathetic character. Despite all the reasons he shouldn't trust people, he does it anyway. That's part of why he's so attractive to Sarah - she lives a life where trusting others is a liability and others trusting you is a commodity. He trusts people because he doesn't know how to do anything else, and it's a quality about him that Sarah loves and envies. Unfortunately, Chuck is her merman - he can't survive (in/)on (spy-)land and she's having a hard time remembering how to breathe underwater.

It's like Sunnydale with spies instead of demons.

Yes, yes, and yes. The supernatural in the Whedonverse was often the metaphorical made literal, just another way to help the characters discover who they were and who they weren't - a variation on sci-fi/Trek's "humans with funny foreheads". Faith was Buffy's greatest foil, just as Lazlo was another of Chuck's.

I hear that some people think that Chuck is "a dumb show". That's an absurd notion. Who are these people, and to what addresses may we deliver the Level 20 Clue-bats?

[MoreRidonkulous]

The "not a dumb show" evidence is probably best compiled in that thread, but yeah. This is not realism. It's hyperrealism . If the plots start being too realistic, it will actually ruin the show, not help it.

Edited by MoreRidonkulous, Oct 30, 2007 @ 9:48 PM.

[Aunty Mib]

I thought that the themes of Truth and Trust was handled very well in this episode. It's the first time I've seen Morgan as sympathetic rather than annoying or pathetic. For much of the episode I couldn't tell if Laszlo were a dangerous nut or a framed naif.

They even managed to bring in the 'real lies': the photo of Chuck and Sarah in the bedroom, Laszlo BONDing with Chuck, Sarah telling people that Chuck was helping her with a 'personal issue and is a real hero' and Casey feeling left out.

[Jubi]

Bringing this up from early on in the ep 1.06 thread:

One thing I miss about about the Chuck/Sarah relationship is that they're apparently past the not-remotely-real honeymoon faze. Sarah came to his party dressed as Princess Leia. That's more than a geeky squee for him; it's a wet dream. Chuck should have been babbling in her presence just by his very nature. He's gotten too used to the fact she's not really his girlfriend (Note the "We look like a real couple" line.) that they're not behaving much like a couple anymore. They could have done the "Chuck and Sarah doing couple-y things as their cover" jokes for several more weeks.

As fun as that stuff was, I think it actually says a lot of positive things about Chuck's mental health that he seems to have begun to adjust to her presence. I get the impression that he's trying to move on and avoid getting completely hung up on her--maybe not entirely successfully, but trying. Maybe the situation with Karina was a catalyst for this? In any case, I kind of like that he seems to be withdrawing from her even as she's obviously beginning to want to get closer to him. Plus he's such a sweet, adorkable, awkward guy that it gives a much-needed boost to his dignity for him to try to distance himself from her and convince himself that everything between them is professional rather than personal. And it's poignant to see her heading in the opposite direction, where she started out very professionally but is now beginning to develop more personal/romantic feelings for him.

Edited by Jubi, Nov 2, 2007 @ 3:11 AM.

[cuppateamydear]

ITA Jubi. It's like they swoped places in terms of their relationship. i think we'll be seing a lot more of this in the future episodes. Chuck trying to move on and Sarah moving closer to Chuck. It's like if he became more independent (in all ways) and she began to be more dependent on him

[Mrs Snark]

It's like they swoped places in terms of their relationship.

I agree. I think the turning point for both of them was the middle name situation. He finally understood that he would never be with her like he wants to. And she realized that she wanted to share with him all the things couples share.

I think it was really well written and executed, that we, the audience, can see the differences in their dynamics since that turning point.

[CreedogV]

Great discussion on my comments. Thanks.

Also from the 1.06 thread:

Sarah is touching Chuck a lot more now.

More? Not so much, but lately she's been doing so even when they're not in public maintaining a cover.

She's constantly touching him, in and out of context:
Hand grabbing
More hand grabbing
Violating personal space
Even more hand grabbing
Laying her hands on his
Arming entwining
Just checking on him
Noticing hand holding
Hair touching
Snuggling in
Removing lint
Fixing hair
Leaning in
Adjusting the tie which was indeed perfect
Picture perfect
As you can see, this is not evidence in any one direction, but rather just compilation.