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#1141

azbabe2229

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 12:35 PM

I would love to see Californication continue without Karen, Becca can hang around, but Karen just sucks the life out of Hank Moody.
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#1142

Taxman

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:14 AM

Yeah, Hank really isn't that into younger women--women are always throwing themselves at him, young and old, but he's never specifically had a preference. He's even praised the aging woman's body. With Mia he slept with her without finding out her real age (and buying the age she gave him, which I think was the same age as the actress who plays her) and once he found out she was 16 he became the only good adult in her life while Karen enthusiastically told stories about how great it was to sleep with older guys and then made it Hank's responsibility to make sure Mia didn't follow her advice which made no sense.


I do recall the one episode where he said he liked older women just as much, and I recall snorting. The women that he slept with in Season 1 were an average of 15 years younger than him. One was 25 years younger. The teeny-bopper actress (Addison Timlin) he slept with in Season 5 was about 30 years younger. Hank's lawyer was ten years younger. The three women he slept with simultaneously (his student, a teacher's aide, and a dean), were 25, 10 and 5 years younger than him, respectively, and I think the dean was the one he praised as an "older" woman. The only woman having sex on the show who is actually older than Hank and Charlie (who is basically Hank's age) was Kathleen Turner's character, who was played in a gross way for laughs. The actor who plays Bates, Karen's "older man" is the same age as Duchovny.

Now, obviously, it could be that we're supposed to think that Hank the character is actually 10-15 years younger than the actor who plays him, so that he's in his early forties or something, max, and so a contemporary of Karen and the other women whose actresses are actually are ten years younger than Duchovny. That would have meant that he had Becca when he was in his early to mid twenties at the very latest. It's not impossible, I guess. I'm not sure we've ever been told what his age is supposed to be, though it could be just that I missed it. And my perception could be colored by the fact that I remember Duchovny from the X-Files twenty years ago, and so his age is kind of more front and center in my head than it might be.

They do go out of their way to portray Hank as some kind of bumbling, sweet-hearted victim of women who keep throwing themselves at him. But he has a reckless appetite. He's ready to sleep with women at the drop of a hat -- basically, if they just ask him to -- with no questions asked. That can, and has, gotten him into trouble more than once, but he continues to do it. And someone who happily falls into bed with someone not that much older than his teenage daughter just has some serious issues. I didn't mean to imply that he couldn't sleep with whomever he wants, just that I find it incongruous that he does so, often in the most reckless, promiscuous way, and then continues to hump Karen's leg periodically. What would she see in his behavior that would say to her "yeah, that's the guy for me"?
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#1143

ganesh

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:05 PM

They do go out of their way to portray Hank as some kind of bumbling, sweet-hearted victim of women who keep throwing themselves at him. But he has a reckless appetite. He's ready to sleep with women at the drop of a hat -- basically, if they just ask him to -- with no questions asked. That can, and has, gotten him into trouble more than once, but he continues to do it.

Mia, and the RZA's gf were bad choices. Becca's boyfriend's mom wasn't his fault at all. I agree too that the lawyer was a bad choice. I don't really think there's anything really wrong with sleeping around if you aren't being all manipulative. In addition to the younger women, there's been a few his age too.

I don't think who he chooses to sleep with is any of Karen's business [not counting Mia of course]. He's been pretty open about wanting to be with Karen, and when he is, he doesn't fool around. If anything, she's the one manipulating him.
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#1144

Mama No Life

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Posted Jun 15, 2012 @ 6:51 AM

OMG, it took me forever to find this thread. Let me get this straight....Nurse Jackie is a "sitcom" but Californication is a "drama"? Huh?

Anyway, I am just catching up on the past season. Last night I saw the ep in which Tyler was cheating at the club. When Hank was talking to Becca at the house, so gently with his hands cupped on her face, it reminded me so much of Mulder I did a double-take. I think I tolerate a lot of Hank's bullshit b/c I still have a lingering crush on the X-files, lol.

Agree to thinking Karen is a big weight around his neck. Would love to see him fall for someone, really fall, and move on from her.....
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#1145

Soulonfire

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Posted Dec 10, 2012 @ 11:32 PM

Not sure if this deserves spoiler tags, so I'll go without. On another forum that I frequent, a poster revealed that he's playing one of the Ramones in the season opener for Californication. Apparently there's a flashback to when Hank and Karen met at CBGB's. He posted a pic of the "band" on stage and they pretty much nailed the griminess of the venue and the look of the band.
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#1146

noregrets

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Posted Jan 14, 2013 @ 1:13 AM

Oh...my...God! Was that Janice I saw leading the man-hating discussion group?
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#1147

Renard

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Posted Jan 14, 2013 @ 1:20 AM

First impressions: what a miserable collection of adults; going to be difficult to stick with this for too much longer. When Runkle and Marcy are the best you got, it's time to hang it up. And Becca's sullen act is well past it's expiration date for me.
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#1148

KalEl

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Posted Jan 14, 2013 @ 11:46 AM

I remain shocked that The Adventures of Pussyman is still running. I thought for sure last season was going to be the last. How much can they get out of this menopausal male fantasy. And will it complete its run without a single Gillian Anderson appearance? 'C'mon! Give us the stunt casting!

And Becca has grown up into a lovely young robot.
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#1149

retrograde85

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Posted Jan 14, 2013 @ 7:25 PM

I promised myself I'd break up with this show at the end of last season, but I really like Tim Minchin, so was suckered back in again. Ugh. I hate myself for watching. I like Becca's haircut. I hope this is the final season.
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#1150

Bunny LaJoya

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Posted Jan 14, 2013 @ 7:57 PM

Becca didn't seem that weird or annoying this time. The character/actor is growing up I guess. Weren't the lines less robotic/comical?
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#1151

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Jan 15, 2013 @ 7:36 AM

Oh...my...God! Was that Janice I saw leading the man-hating discussion group?


Hahahahahahaha (did you hear Janice's laugh in your head?)! I actually thought huh, so Janice went to California and found inner peace and crap?

It's a good thing they showed that two minute long "previously" at the beginning of the episode because I'd actually forgotten about Natalie Zea drugging Hank. I wonder how much of his binging was genuine remorse for the way he'd treated her versus having a legit excuse to go on a bender.
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#1152

Sister Magpie

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Posted Jan 15, 2013 @ 12:46 PM

I wonder how much of his binging was genuine remorse for the way he'd treated her versus having a legit excuse to go on a bender.


Which always brings up the central annoyance of this show: he hadn't treated her badly! Sleeping with someone, openly telling them you're not interested in a relationship, and then not falling in love with them really isn't mistreating them. Deciding you're entitled to the person being in love with you, setting their home on fire, chasing them across the country and attempting to murder them is mistreating them. Yet of course we're watching Hank get berated by the friend of his attempted murderer as if he murdered her. I was shocked when someone actually pointed that out--even if Hank did punch him out for it. At this point even female strangers are blaming him for their own mistakes.

Glad they got rid of Tyler, though. That's something. Becca continues to transition from precocious child to bland, ordinary adult who's way too dependent on her parents.
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#1153

Bunny LaJoya

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Posted Jan 15, 2013 @ 4:55 PM

I completely agree that Hank was not in the wrong when it came to Natalie Zea. I didn't read it as the show thinking he was in the wrong either, though. Rather, just having sex with The Wrong Woman this time. Sometimes you're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, doing what you normally do, except this time it's with a crazy person. Considering Natalie almost committed suicide/murder, I think the show accepts her as crazy.

Edited by Bunny LaJoya, Jan 15, 2013 @ 4:55 PM.

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#1154

Renard

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Posted Jan 15, 2013 @ 5:20 PM

I completely agree that Hank was not in the wrong when it came to Natalie Zea. I didn't read it as the show thinking he was in the wrong either, though. Rather, just having sex with The Wrong Woman this time. Sometimes you're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, doing what you normally do, except this time it's with a crazy person. Considering Natalie almost committed suicide/murder, I think the show accepts her as crazy.


I agree with you with one very big exception: the thing he normally does (have indiscriminate sex with just about anybody with little more knowledge about them than they have a vagina and breasts with no consideration of consequences or ramifications to himself, his family, the other person, etc.) isn't actually "normal" or grounds for a defense, especially if you have to add the phrase "this time", IMO. All those other times depleted the credibility bank (Hank is greatly overdrawn) or any free pass.

IMO, he needs to stop sticking his dick in any and every thing, ideally stop drinking and get the hell out of Hollywood. Not every novel needs to be made into a movie and certainly not a musical; those were never his intentions nor passions and he knew how much/little novels paid. He needs to accept the structure/rules of the game he chose to play. If he really wants the movie money, have Charlie find someone in Hollywood who can translate his novels to the screen and settle for the rights money and a small consultation fee. His writing is highly autobiographical and based upon self-destructive behavior. Neither he nor anyone else should be surprised when he self-destructs. For what it's worth, self-destructing with no name "normal" people back in NYC is VERY different than self-destructing with high-profile NPD egomaniacs in show business with the added fuel of money, drugs and power all done under a much harsher light and many more prying eyes. So far, it's always been someone else who paid the ultimate price and Hank was recovered but the odds should eventually catch up with him. At this point, that is the only fitting end to the series as I see it as he will never be happy or content with a boring life including Karen and Becca, regardless of how much he says that's all he wants. YMMV
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#1155

Bunny LaJoya

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Posted Jan 15, 2013 @ 10:43 PM

Totally see your point. Totally agree that his way of life could easily get him into trouble and actually often does. I just meant with Natalie's character, I personally didn't find him in the wrong. But yes, the indiscriminate sex with potentially dangerous people is reckless behaviour. And he was punished for it, extremely harshly.
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#1156

Renard

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 1:48 AM

In my book, he could/should have been shot at least twice in this episode: 1) when he interrupted and screwed up the proposal and 2) when he crawled in bed with the 3 year-old.

And pissing in the bottle while standing in the middle of the living room, then drinking his own urine. Normal, sane people would be out the door on that note. Here's hoping I come to my senses.

And the rock star getting the HJ on the plane. Didn't they do that before with the rich guy at his mansion and he ended up hanging himself accidentally? This whole thing seems like Lou and Season 2?

Does anybody have the body count of how many people end up dead around Hank?
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#1157

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 4:28 AM

I don't think that Hank treated her horribly, but he didn't treat her nicely either. I'm not saying it's his fault that she killed herself because he isn't responsible for her craziness and he couldn't know that she would react as badly as she did. Despite that, I do understand him feeling guilty even if I don't believe it's his fault.
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#1158

Mama No Life

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 5:38 AM

Was she crazy? Yes. But Hank has a history of treating women like shit and this one finally bit him in the ass. When he told Charlie (who has lost weight, yes?) that Becca and Karen would be better off without him, I couldn't help but agree. But apparently both the ladies in his life are as screwed up as he is....

The peeing in the bottle and then drinking it was too much. At that point I just wanted him to keel over....
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#1159

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 6:22 AM

It made me think he's seen one too many episodes of Bear Grylls doing stupid shit like drinking his own pee. I was hoping he wouldn't pee on his shirt and then wrap it around his head.
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#1160

Sister Magpie

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 12:57 PM

Was she crazy? Yes. But Hank has a history of treating women like shit and this one finally bit him in the ass


I disagree. Hank, imo, has a history of being completely irresponsible in terms of sleeping with whatever thing comes his way even though over and over again he's learned that this can lead to complications. But he gets treated like shit far more than he actually treats other people like shit. Hank's carelessness ALWAYS comes back to bite him on the ass, usually in crazy ways that involve it turning out that the woman has set him up or is just as careless or thoughtless as he is but will not only get away scott-free but will be held up as the innocent victim.

For instance: Mia intentionally set him up to sleep with her knowing he thought he was sleeping with a 25 year old (and then stole from him and blackmailed him). No one in her universe has acknowledged what a deliberately malicious person she is and she's still mostly shielded from the consequences of her actions. In the first season this is why I thought she was the antagonist, since she's the exact opposite of Hank.

Random woman he picked up stole his albums.

Prostitute sleeps with him without establishing a price or getting money first (so he can mistakenly think it's just a casual encounter) and then her pimp beats Hank up even though she knows it was an honest mistake.

Two women hit on him and sleep with him and then it turns out they're mother and daughter and that makes him a jerk for sleeping with both of them.

He goes down on a woman at a party thinking it's Karen--she accuses him of assault (even though she made the same mistake he did), and Karen gets back at him by getting him beaten by a cop and thrown in jail.

Mia and the girl playing her in the movie get him out to a party by pretending Mia's suicidal, and when he's passed out stick their hands down his pants (and get a picture taken)--knowing he's on probation for this kind of crime.

Damian's mom invites Becca's dad to the house and acts like she lives alone, sending him walking downstairs naked, where he runs into Damian and finds out that he, as usual, was unaware of some key piece of information that everyone else knew.

That's just off the top of my head remembering the annoying encounters Hank has. Now, Hank certainly has responsibility for all of these things. He's had this happen to many times for him to claim ignorance at this point, and in some cases, like Becca's guidance counselor, he shouldn't have slept with her even if she wasn't Damian's mom. If he keeps choosing to have sex with strangers--no matter how appropriate those encounters look--after all this he's obviously also choosing to get himself into messes. Which he obviously is, because he's self-destructive.

But that's his problem--that he's self-destructive. He feels guilty over this woman killing herself because he likes feeling guilty. A normal person would rightfully feel anger and fear over being stalked, assaulted and nearly killed. They might also have some healthy self-preservation instincts that would warn them off of someone like her to start with. In this case there does seem some recognition within the show's universe that she was crazy. But only some. There's actually been more scenes where her behavior's treated as normal and she's been treated as the victim of Hank, including her friend's deathbed accusation.

Other people, meanwhile, never feel guilty or get called out by anyone. Stalker lady has her friend defending her. If Damian blamed his mom for anything it happened off-screen. Hank continues to protect Mia and Mia continues to consider that her due. Karen and Becca act like their family broke up because Hank cheated on Karen. Hank gets blowback for Ryan being awful while Ryan mostly gets coddled. Hank happily takes blame for Stu cheating and covers up for him.

In any other universe Hank would just be a loser not worth bothering with who somehow has women throwing themselves at him. Compared to everyone in his own universe he's practically the good one.
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#1161

Renard

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 1:25 PM

You forgot the Dean's wife, the grad student/stripper and I forget the 3rd hook-up in that triple header.

ETA: I think the 3rd was the TA, the woman firefighter from Rescue Me. And I think it was just an "older"(not straight out of high school) undergraduate who was also a stripper. She might have actually been the best for him because I think I remember that she didn't actually want anything/a commitment from him other than sex including fidelity. Could be wrong on that last one though.

I'd say that Hank is the better (less worse) one in any of these comparisons but I would not use the term "good" even as a comparative. Back to my first post on Sunday: if I were to rank everybody in the series in terms of relative "goodness" excluding Becca, Hank would be third behind Charlie and Marcy which is starting the bar pretty low. Karen comes in 4th both because she is a miserable, short sighted shrew but she has horrible taste in men. She thinks that in "moving on" from Hank, she improved but she picked a rich asshole with a psycho daughter who set out to screw Hank professionally and a laudable writer with a decent public persona who had as many, if not more, demons as Hank who actually bonded with Hank and for whom Hank covered several times. Forgot fakeLennyKravitz.

Edited by Renard, Jan 16, 2013 @ 1:33 PM.

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#1162

KalEl

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 3:09 PM

Hank's carelessness ALWAYS comes back to bite him on the ass, usually in crazy ways that involve it turning out that the woman has set him up or is just as careless or thoughtless as he is but will not only get away scott-free but will be held up as the innocent victim.


It's still Hank's fault because it keeps happening. You know the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." Look at your list. Hank is in the double digits of "being fooled." He should be able to smell trouble at this point. It's not his fault she basically killed herself; it's his fault he didn't know from experience she was trouble the moment he met her.

Edited by KalEl, Jan 16, 2013 @ 3:10 PM.

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#1163

Sister Magpie

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 4:26 PM

It's still Hank's fault because it keeps happening. You know the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." Look at your list. Hank is in the double digits of "being fooled." He should be able to smell trouble at this point. It's not his fault she basically killed herself; it's his fault he didn't know from experience she was trouble the moment he met her.

\

Yes, I totally agree that it's Hank's fault because he keeps doing it even though he's seen the results. At this point he's clearly just courting this kind of trouble. A person who wasn't intentionally not asking questions to be risky would have learned their lesson back with Mia. But not only does Hank not do that, he doesn't even set up healthy boundaries (to protect himself rather than Mia) around Mia. What's weird is that everyone else in his universe except Charlie and his ex seems to encourage it to make themselves look better.
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#1164

charmante456

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Posted Jan 21, 2013 @ 12:10 PM

This show has so much that's good, and so much that's bad.

Charlie's outing was funny, but terrible.

Marcy and Stu were funny, but terrible (and a step too far as Stu pled his case). Without passing dispersions on various activities I've been known to enjoy, I could go my whole life without hearing a man say to a woman "let me taste you" and not feel like I was missing anything.

Hank and Faith were nice. Hank in therapy was terrible.

Hank and Becca were nice. Hank and Becca's ONS was terrible.

Somewhere deep deep down there is this great show about an interesting, self-destructive but talented man who just can't help himself from wanting to experience everything he can experience. And then somewhere closer to the surface there is this show about a total douche and his total-douche-y entourage of self-hating a smarmy hangers-on. In retrospect, i think I've liked every single one of Hank's paramours -- Mia, the TA, the stripper, the actress, her mother, all the rest, even Carrie -- more than I've liked those people he calls friends (or lovers). I only like Karen in flashbacks.

So bad, and sometimes so good.
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#1165

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Posted Jan 21, 2013 @ 6:07 PM

That's a good point....it has the potential to be a very good show. The acting is great and the plots have texture...but it just doesn't work out the way it should.

So far this season I'm not liking anyone but Charlie and Becca, and that's not good. Marcy got on my damn nerves last night...yes, you are the worst mother ever.
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#1166

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 1:23 AM

Isn't the point that he just can't he just can't handle the love of a good woman and continually sabotages himself?

That being the pretext for all his sex and drugs and rock and roll adventures?
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#1167

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 8:06 AM

Didn't Runkle already pretend to be gay in an earlier season? I swear he was at a bar and some guy he wanted as a client made him go hit on some dude. I guess this is different because now everyone in Hollywood thinks he's gay. How long before he's outed as a closet heterosexual and shunned by everyone in Hollywood?
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#1168

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 10:31 PM

I'm retracing my steps with previous seasons and would just like to say that Karen has the personality of dishwater and if you look up "codependent" in the dictionary, you'll find her picture there.
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#1169

ganesh

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Posted Jan 26, 2013 @ 3:17 AM

I'm finally caught up on the new season. Entertainment Weekly tells me when my shows are back on and I've been behind because of real life.

It's not his fault she basically killed herself; it's his fault he didn't know from experience she was trouble the moment he met her.

I think Hank was genuinely surprised she was so into him at the beginning of the prior season. The point for for me was that she had the realization at the big dinner party that Hank wasn't getting over Karen. Why not just rip the scab off and move on?

But not only does Hank not do that, he doesn't even set up healthy boundaries (to protect himself rather than Mia) around Mia.

I respectfully disagree. Once Hank learned of Mia's age, he established clear boundaries. Now, it's fair to call BS on a youngish women claiming she's older than she is, and Hank asking no questions, so I get that. Once he new the deal he shut Mia down.

Which always brings up the central annoyance of this show: he hadn't treated her badly! Sleeping with someone, openly telling them you're not interested in a relationship, and then not falling in love with them really isn't mistreating them. Deciding you're entitled to the person being in love with you, setting their home on fire, chasing them across the country and attempting to murder them is mistreating them.

I know. Plus, see above, she had the realization that he wasn't over Karen. After the fire, I'd get a restraining order and the police on speed dial.

I don't see Hank as an alcoholic. I also don't think that shoving god into someone's face fixes the problem. Hank needed an intervention, but I can buy he really was affected by the death. Does he need a break and an intervention? Sure.

I'm leaning towards the show resolves with Hank dying.

Edited by ganesh, Jan 26, 2013 @ 3:18 AM.

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#1170

FreakyBunny

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Posted Jan 28, 2013 @ 10:52 AM

Is this the last season? I don't know why I keep coming back, because they keep upping the ick factor every year. I love Hank, though, and hope he never changes. I hope that's how they resolve it. Karen leaves him for good, Becca checks in every once and a while because she is awesome, and Charlie and Hank keep on making money and mistakes.

Hank is a true Narcissist, nothing wrong with that if no one gets hurt. So run for the hills Karen, and let Hank be Hank.
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