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#1111

Scrb

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 12:43 PM

And we know by now that anytime Hank is heading back to his babymomma and sprog and all is right with the world and there's 10 minutes left in the show - well, then it's all just about to go belly-up for him.


Yeah I guess if Hank finds domestic bliss for any kind of extended period of time, the show has no reason to exist?

So the producers have to keep bringing up obstacles to keep the family apart, whether it's Hank's shenanigans or now, some external forces taking unrealistic actions.

Was it believable that just like that, Hank and family would drop all the dysfunction and the star aligned (Bates going to step out of the picture and what, give them his home?), until another woman from his past threatens to destroy the Happily Ever After?
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#1112

hincandenza

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 2:32 PM

The way the show ended was silly- Hank was fully lucid as he was dialing 911, then Carrie says "No more than you" and... suddenly he's instantly too woozy to even finish dialing 911? They then continued a conversation for another minute, including her getting on top... so he could certainly have hit 911, enough that paramedics would be sent to that address even if he passed out mid-conversation.

But this show is stupid, and I'm stupid for having watched it.
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#1113

tacitus

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

Then, of course, there was the collective shrug at the shooting of someone (with intent to kill) in front of dozens of witnesses thing. The show certainly does strain credulity to the breaking point from time to time.
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#1114

arabica

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 7:41 PM

I enjoyed the season finale a lot. But then I don't expect realism in this or any of the Showtime series that I watch which makes them that much easier to enjoy.

It was great seeing Lew Ashby again and the whole dream sequence with Led Zepplin playing the background. Loved Bates whole scene with Hank and Karen. Hank to Bates "I am not having sex with you" and Bates whispering in Hank's ear."Let me tell you something kitten. It would rock your fucking world." and then sticking his tongue in Hanks ear. It was just so squirmingly funny to watch. I loved how Runkle took a bullet for Hank and how the first words out of Stuart's mouth were "blowjob". The ending with the psycho ex girlfriend was just the icing on the cake. Only Hank could be this unlucky time after time.

This whole series is just so entertaining and the little moments of truthfulness in between all the absurdity makes it one of the my favorite shows. And after watching the let down of the Shameless finale it was just what I needed.
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#1115

quietquilts

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 1:43 AM

That was an intense dream. I knew something would happen to come between Karen and Hank yet again. I liked Marcy and Charlie in this episode. I had to laugh at Samurai and Kali. Threatening and almost killing someone is romantic to her. Well, whatever works for you. Hank and Bates looked like they were trying not to crack up in the scene with Karen. I know the actors are good friends and that seemed to come through in the scene. I liked Becca's scene with her dad. Telling him that she is who she is, he has to let her be an adult. That's hard for every parent, he has to let her go a little bit.

So the producers have to keep bringing up obstacles to keep the family apart, whether it's Hank's shenanigans or now, some external forces taking unrealistic actions.

I want this family to get it together already. The show teases us with knowing that these two screwed up people love each other, yet can't have them together or the show ends. It's disappointing but not at all surprising.

I enjoyed the season finale a lot. But then I don't expect realism in this or any of the Showtime series that I watch which makes them that much easier to enjoy.

For me as well. I view it as a comedy. It's enjoyable but I don't take much of it very seriously.
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#1116

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 4:04 AM

Man, I hope Carrie dies before the ambulance arrives. That is one crazy nutjob. First she sets Hank's apartment on fire (accompanied by cuckoo text messages) then she stalks him in California? And how did she get into his place this time? I knew as soon as she switched the glasses that she had drugged him, but ugh, having to watch her babble about how they were meant to be and begging him to say he loved her? Girl, HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

I'm glad all the sexcapades are out in the open now. At least this way, people can decide what they want to do, even if that means getting engaged to a lying cheating asshole who had the gall to cheat on you at your own father's house while you were in the other room. And Callie, WTF? She has insisted from the beginning of the season that Samurai was into her but she wasn't into him, that she felt trapped, blah blah blah but as soon as he threatens to kill two people in front of you for sleeping with you, he's ever so dreamy!

I did get some perverse satisfaction at seeing Lizzie's bit part was as a prostitute - ha!

I loved Bates' description of Hank too: lazy, entitled, yes.

I really hope that's the last we have to see of stupid Tyler. He is such an ass.

while I'm not a fan of the character Karen, Natasha Richardson does a great job of looking like a woman in love.

That's Natasha McElhone. Natasha Richardson was married to Liam Neeson and passed away three years ago. Both lovely British actresses though.
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#1117

Bunny LaJoya

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 7:56 AM

I actually really liked this episode.

I disagree that Hank has to let Becca go. No. Don't let her marry Tyler! If you do one thing right! Why should he let Becca do what she wants? God do I hate that brat.

Natasha McElhone is incredibly stunning, and I can see why the show was based around her in this way. Usually when shows pick some 'dream girl' that the protagonist is constantly chasing over, I don't really get it. The character of Karen is pretty awful, but that actress is gorgeous.

Edited by Bunny LaJoya, Apr 3, 2012 @ 7:58 AM.

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#1118

Omnomnomicon

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

Everything in the finale was way too pat. Everything works out perfectly till the very end?

Bates and Karen break up with no angst whatsoever, paving the way for Hank.
Tyler agrees to take Hank's advice, so we can hope for less agony for Becca.
Marcy and Charlie are sort of reunited.
Kali suddenly decides that mental illness is attractive and romantic, so now she and Samurai are "happy".
Lizzie gets what's coming to her.

Either they were trying to make the murder-suicide thing that much more compelling (and instead landed on 'completely predictable as soon as he said he had to stop somewhere first'), or the whole episode was a dream sequence.
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#1119

quietquilts

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 1:18 AM

Man, I hope Carrie dies before the ambulance arrives. That is one crazy nutjob. First she sets Hank's apartment on fire (accompanied by cuckoo text messages) then she stalks him in California? And how did she get into his place this time?

She should have at least received some jail time for burning down his place. Or some much needed court mandated therapy.

I disagree that Hank has to let Becca go. No. Don't let her marry Tyler! If you do one thing right! Why should he let Becca do what she wants? God do I hate that brat.

I don't want her to marry Tyler either. By 'letting go', I mean as a parent he can't tell her what to do and expect her to obey. Becca is an adult and she has to make her own choices. Karen seems to realise this but Hank is hanging on. It could backfire if he holds on too tight.
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#1120

SeriouslyBored

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 6:04 AM

So the producers have to keep bringing up obstacles to keep the family apart, whether it's Hank's shenanigans or now, some external forces taking unrealistic actions.


With that the show stooped to the level of Shonda Rhimes tripe. Was totally expecting that Carrie was getting out an Anatomy book and a scalpel. It is pretty obvious that they wrote the finale without knowing if they had a 6 season, and wrote it open to editing tweaks. If it had not been picked up, they would put in other stuff they cut and cut that ending. Unless the ending was planned to force the hand of the TPTB in to another season, in case they were undecided.

Whatever. I'm out.

Edited by SeriouslyBored, Apr 4, 2012 @ 6:05 AM.

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#1121

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 7:40 AM

When she first appeared in his apartment, I was convinced she was just trying to get him close enough to stab him. I kept watching her hands and hoping she wouldn't pull a knife out of her pocket. I haven't enjoyed this season at all so if this show is renewed, I may not bother returning. But I'm such a sucker - I know when the show returns I'll give it once last chance. Gawd, I sound as terrible as Karen and Becca, don't I?
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#1122

ganesh

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 11:58 PM

The way the show ended was silly- Hank was fully lucid as he was dialing 911, then Carrie says "No more than you" and... suddenly he's instantly too woozy to even finish dialing 911?

Really. This guy can drink like a horse. There had to have been 50 pounds of pills in there for him to go out so fast. And, if she "took no more than him," she was pretty spry at that point. She weighs less than Hank, so she should have been out way sooner.

I don't like the tactic of bringing in a brand new character on a show to effect such a major plot development. It's kind of cheap and for here disingenuous. Why not have someone from the past who was jilted come in this season and do the same type of thing? Because Hank's been pretty fair with all the women he's been with. In none of their scenes did Hank treat her poorly. If she was getting more out of the relationship, it's not his fault. I would find it hard to believe if she told Hank she loved him that he'd lie and say it too. Not to mention the fact that if an ex-gf set fire to my apartment, there wouldn't be a restraining order slapped on her. An ex-roommate sent me a threatening email to me once, by lunchtime I filed a police report and he got a visit from a street officer kindly asking that he cease any contact with me.

I'm confused. I thought this season was about deconstructing Karen, and here they are just jumping back together. I just don't get it. I feel like this is Big Love all over again. A lot of people (me too) saw one thing, and TPTB were intending the total opposite. I also think it's BS that Becca would have accepted getting married. She was shown to be more savvy in the past. I think they really reduced her to 1D to push this Tyler storyline. Which again, I don't see why he's the "younger Hank".
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#1123

Taxman

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:02 AM

Hank's indiscretions and failures always come back to bite him, it seems. Carrie asked him in the first episode of the season whether he'd ever really loved her, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and didn't really answer, IIRC. She may have asked him again when she appeared mid-season, and I think he dodged it then, too. So finally, he tells her the truth, i.e., that he never loved her, but did like having sex with her. And gets killed for it. Maybe. But probably not. Which is a shame.

The wreckage that Hank and Karen leave in their wake is pretty clear to see. Becca is one seriously damaged pup, taking Tyler back again and again no matter what he does, apparently, as long as he says he's sorry. Pretty obvious where she learned that from. So it's a little hard to really root for Hank and Karen, despite everyone on the show telling them how they should be together because they luuuurrrvveee each other. Hank's pattern, which he repeats again and again, is to chase after Karen obsessively and romantically until he actually gets her, at which point he feels restless and trapped and flees. And Karen's is to resist his affections and silly lines while sending out all the "I still heart you" vibes until she finally gives in, at which point she is disappointed by Hank's inability to really commit. They've played out that scene over and over in the series. At some point, like when you see a friend come out of rehab for the fifth time, talking about how this time was totally different and they're gonna stay clean, you just have a kind of sinking feeling.
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#1124

ganesh

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 12:56 PM

Hank's indiscretions and failures always come back to bite him, it seems.

But except for Mia, who even said she was the aggressor, in terms of relationships, what others? Mia didn't even want anyone to know about her and Hank. The agent forced the issue. For someone who is pretty much a philanderer, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, he's been pretty straight up with the women he's with. That's why I feel this whole Carrie situation is contrived. I'm not buying that if Carrie asked Hank if he loved her offscreen that he would have lied and said it. In their first scene together, it was clearly obvious that she was way more invested in their relationship, and I think Hank basically told her that this wasn't the kind of relationship she thought it was, and again when she visited him in LA. I think he had to be harsh and told her he didn't love her because she just wasn't getting it. I just don't buy that he deliberately treated her like crap or anything. She also said herself at the dinner party that she realized he wasn't over Karen.

Hank's pattern, which he repeats again and again, is to chase after Karen obsessively and romantically until he actually gets her, at which point he feels restless and trapped and flees.

Not that I like Hank, but when did this happen? When they moved to LA, Karen left Hank for Bill. The show made a point to show us Hank didn't stray when they were together. Then, when they got together again, Karen obviously dropped him because of Mia. But, while I thought Hank should have gone to jail, and made a bad choice, he thought Mia was 18+, and he wasn't with Karen at the time. If not for the very wacky sitcom coincidence that Mia was Bill's daughter, nothing would have happened.

So Hank did flee to NYC after that, sure, but he was basically outcast by his daughter and her mother. And it's fair to say that Karen leads him on because she completely does. And it's had a bad effect on Becca. When they pull lines from Becca like, "wonder where I learned that from," I have to call BS. Karen didn't ever keep taking Hank back after repeatedly cheating on her because that never happened. If anything, Becca learned to be a doormat from Hank.

What I got out of this season was that Karen is just not a good person to have a relationship with because she's emotionally manipulative. Hank holds her on this huge pedestal. But it seems like I'm supposed to be thinking that I'm supposed to believe Hank and Karen are perfect for one another.
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#1125

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 1:55 PM

That was my reading of it too. Hank doesn't run away from Becca and Karen. He hangs out until Karen throws him out--it's always with their consent if he's gone away. There was also that time where they were together and then Karen got angry because she accused him of hooking up with a girl at a party (which he hadn't done) and had him beaten by cops and thrown into jail overnight.

I also have to agree on how Hank treated Carrie. As strange as it is to be defending Hank, Carrie herself said exactly what it was that Hank did wrong: he didn't love her. She admitted that he'd always been honest about it, even, and at the dinner party made that big speech about how he was just pathetic and still in love with his ex. She told him he didn't get credit just because he was honest. Her position seemed to be that she loved him and therefore he was a jerk to let that happen or something.
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#1126

ganesh

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 5:32 PM

It's so different watching tv today with all the easy access to the actors and TPTBs via twitter, FB, etc. Because I usually tend to ask, is this what they want me to think? Not that I don't watch a show and form my own opinion, but now I put that up against what the creators are intending. I think it can be kind of detrimental if TPTB are too vocal. This happened on Big Love, and really just ruined the show for me. Over here, I haven't really followed anything from the creators, so I don't know what they intend. From what I watched this season, it seems to me that Hank is in love with pursuing this "Karen ideal," but in the reality, Karen is just not a healthy companion to be with. This has clearly affected Becca who was shown in the past to be a sharp cookie, but is not making some serious errors in judgment.

But, then there's these weird lines of dialogue that seem to contradict what I've seen in the past seasons which makes me think TPTB intend something completely different from what I've seen. It kind of ruins the enjoyment of watching. As much as the end of The Sopranos was derided, and I thought it was fine, the creator came out and said, "everything I've wanted to say about the show is on the screen. So you watch it. It's all there. I'm not talking about it." I just don't have any idea that there's a narrative direction with this show, or if it's just always going to be Hank and Karen circling each other all the time.
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#1127

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

Hard to see Hank as the doormat when he's getting pussy thrown at him, without even trying hard, left and right -- then again, even Runkel gets a lot of action on this show.

While Runkel was shooting for 100 since Marcy dumped him, Hank has how many more times that, in the times between his on-again/off-again relationship with Karen?

Even if he doesn't have other baby mommas, does she want to be with a guy who's been with so many other women? A lot of sex on this show but no unplanned pregnancies or STDs.
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#1128

arabica

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 9:36 PM

It's so different watching tv today with all the easy access to the actors and TPTBs via twitter, FB, etc. Because I usually tend to ask, is this what they want me to think? Not that I don't watch a show and form my own opinion, but now I put that up against what the creators are intending. I think it can be kind of detrimental if TPTB are too vocal. This happened on Big Love, and really just ruined the show for me. Over here, I haven't really followed anything from the creators, so I don't know what they intend. From what I watched this season, it seems to me that Hank is in love with pursuing this "Karen ideal," but in the reality, Karen is just not a healthy companion to be with. This has clearly affected Becca who was shown in the past to be a sharp cookie, but is not making some serious errors in judgment.

But, then there's these weird lines of dialogue that seem to contradict what I've seen in the past seasons which makes me think TPTB intend something completely different from what I've seen. It kind of ruins the enjoyment of watching. As much as the end of The Sopranos was derided, and I thought it was fine, the creator came out and said, "everything I've wanted to say about the show is on the screen. So you watch it. It's all there. I'm not talking about it." I just don't have any idea that there's a narrative direction with this show, or if it's just always going to be Hank and Karen circling each other all the time


Californication was originally written as a movie and when there were no buyers it was then shopped around as a one year type of mini series. Tom Kapinos had David Duchovny in mind as the person he wanted to play Hank Moody from the very beginning because he knew in order for the concept to work he needed a man who both men and women could relate to in that men would be able to watch this guy get all the women and still not hate him and that the women who watched would find him appealing. I don't know that Tom Kapinos was looking for anything further than a one year deal and his whole narrative was based on his original movie script which was what was shown in season one of Californication.

So I think when the show was picked up for a second season and a third and is now going into it's sixth season that perhaps there is no real narrative direction, or at least not a pre thoughtout direction of a beginning and an end and maybe that is what you are experiencing when watching? For myself, knowing that this was originally just a one year and one script beginning I think they are doing a pretty good job of winging it year after year. I do think though that next year, the sixth season, should probably be enough and I hope at this point that they have thought out a clear ending. I have read though that each year they do have different endings written just in case the show is not picked up for the following season.

Edited by arabica, Apr 6, 2012 @ 9:39 PM.

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#1129

ganesh

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:48 PM

Well, that's interesting information to know. I do think casting DD as Hank was a right move. For me, he's a smart enough guy that call pull off playing an intelligent writer because he is actually an intelligent writer.

However, on the other hand, TPTB have a lot of latitude with the show because it's on a premium channel, *and* they're writing a 5 hour season at a pop, compared to upwards of twice that much for the crap sitcoms on the broadcast networks. I'm not cutting them any slack on developing a coherent season to season narrative that fits within the overall series. Hire a continuity editor if it's too hard. While they may lack an overall narrative, clearly the show is about Hank/Karen and that's fine. If that's the story they want to tell, ok, no problem. This is the first season where I really was like, wtf is going on here. It doesn't fit that well with what came before. And I know it's hard to not know whether the show is coming back or not, but hey, it's not like 1 million other shows faced the same problem. You can write a single self-contained season and then a couple of endings that can wrap it up or go another way. It's your job, actually. And if you're burned, then hire someone to breathe some life into the show.

I'm not really nitpicking. I challenge TPTB to look at this Carrie situation and really tell me it fits with the characterization of Hank from the start. I just don't think it does, and it seems like they wanted to throw a block into Hank/Karen at the end, and they conceived this Carrie idea to do it. I think they could have gotten the same result otherwise, by putting in a little more effort. It's not like this is a crappy show. They've done a good job. They're slipping. Do better now.

Look at the same network, Weeds has reinvented Nancy like 100 times already. So much of tv it seems to me, a C-type program could go to B+ with just a little more effort.
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#1130

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 3:52 PM

But except for Mia, who even said she was the aggressor, in terms of relationships, what others? Mia didn't even want anyone to know about her and Hank. The agent forced the issue. For someone who is pretty much a philanderer, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, he's been pretty straight up with the women he's with. That's why I feel this whole Carrie situation is contrived. I'm not buying that if Carrie asked Hank if he loved her offscreen that he would have lied and said it. In their first scene together, it was clearly obvious that she was way more invested in their relationship, and I think Hank basically told her that this wasn't the kind of relationship she thought it was, and again when she visited him in LA. I think he had to be harsh and told her he didn't love her because she just wasn't getting it. I just don't buy that he deliberately treated her like crap or anything. She also said herself at the dinner party that she realized he wasn't over Karen.

Not that I like Hank, but when did this happen? When they moved to LA, Karen left Hank for Bill. The show made a point to show us Hank didn't stray when they were together. Then, when they got together again, Karen obviously dropped him because of Mia. But, while I thought Hank should have gone to jail, and made a bad choice, he thought Mia was 18+, and he wasn't with Karen at the time. If not for the very wacky sitcom coincidence that Mia was Bill's daughter, nothing would have happened.

So Hank did flee to NYC after that, sure, but he was basically outcast by his daughter and her mother. And it's fair to say that Karen leads him on because she completely does. And it's had a bad effect on Becca. When they pull lines from Becca like, "wonder where I learned that from," I have to call BS. Karen didn't ever keep taking Hank back after repeatedly cheating on her because that never happened. If anything, Becca learned to be a doormat from Hank.

What I got out of this season was that Karen is just not a good person to have a relationship with because she's emotionally manipulative. Hank holds her on this huge pedestal. But it seems like I'm supposed to be thinking that I'm supposed to believe Hank and Karen are perfect for one another.


In terms of Hank's affairs coming back to bite him, yeah, Mia is the obvious one. Whether she was the aggressor or not, if you're as promiscuous as Hank is, and sleep with someone within moments of meeting them, without knowing the slightest thing about them, and your tastes skew to people who are waaaaay younger than you are, eventually you're going to sleep with someone who is younger than she says she is. That was totally his fault, and "but she came on to me" isn't a defense.

In addition, though, I think he slept with the mother of his daughter's best friend at school, which led to them both getting expelled. And he was carrying on something like three simultaneous affairs with various women, including a student of his, while Karen was in NY, which also caused problems for him when she came back and found out about it. Then there was sleeping with RZA's girlfriend, which was lurking through the entire last season, and which ended up with him getting shot at. I think he pays a price for his infidelities, is all.

And Karen does keep taking him back, doesn't she? It's not like Hank ever stops sleeping with everything that moves and focuses on just winning her. Rather, he follows her around telling her how much he loves her and wishes they were back together while having sex with anything that will stand still long enough. Even in this last seasons, Karen took him back after he was convicted on statutory rape charges for sleeping with what was at the time her 16-year-old step-daughter, having sex with his daughter's teacher, and numerous other debaucheries.
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#1131

ganesh

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 7:31 PM

I don't recall Hank having simultaneous affairs, but I've only seen the episodes once; I like the show, but it's not a multiple viewing show for me. I just don't get the impression that Hank is a manipulator. Which is why I don't really have a problem with him having lots of sex. He should have gone to jail for Mia, which I said at the time as well, but at the same time, once he found out, he didn't keep coming on to her, and repeatedly refused her advances. While all the time Karen was saying to her how great it is to have an affair with an older man at her age.

As much as I bitch about the show, I think the whole Mia thing was pretty interesting. I don't think Hank specifically likes to hook up with younger women, and just rolls with whomever he clicks with. I actually think he may have asked Mia if she was 18+ at the time.

I can't really find fault with him and Becca's friend's mom. He met some woman, they both wanted to have sex. She invited him back to her house. This happens all the time. I don't recall that she got expelled or fired because of it. It happened outside of her work. I don't see how it's anyone's fault.

Maybe with the RZA it wasn't a good idea since the guy (the character) is pretty over the top. But again, they were all adults and she wasn't married to him. I think Hank stopped once he realized the RZA was gun crazy, and pretty much screamed at Tyler and then beat him up for not listening to reason.

Again, the show has gone out of the way to show us that while Hank and Karen both acknowledged he was not unfaithful. So I don't see that while Karen was married to Bill or with Bates whatever Hank did in his own life was really any of her business, nor should it be used against him. She even hit on him and he told her no, when she was still with Bates, recently. I don't see that Karen is always "taking him back" after his infidelities. Even the women Hank are with know he still wants to be with Karen and they don't really care.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as the show is making it out to be. And I definitely call BS to Tyler=young Hank. Which is pretty much my main beef with this season.
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#1132

Sister Magpie

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 11:42 AM

I can't really find fault with him and Becca's friend's mom. He met some woman, they both wanted to have sex. She invited him back to her house. This happens all the time. I don't recall that she got expelled or fired because of it. It happened outside of her work. I don't see how it's anyone's fault.


That was one of those weird instances where she was more at fault than him and yet it was entirely blamed on him. Which is actually also true for Mia since Mia was intentionally targetting him and blackmailing him. Hank's fault is that he sleeps with people without finding out all he needs to know, and it's happened enough times that he can't claim ignorance about it. So he is at fault there. But still, a lot of times things turn out to be wildly improbably convoluted and the women who are the aggressors somehow wind up acting like he did it.

For instance, with the guidance counselor, Hank was wrong for sleeping with Becca's guidance counselor, period, because that was a conflict of interest. But nobody was angry at him for sleeping with Becca's guidance counselor. They were angry at him for sleeping wtih Damian (Becca's boyfriend's) Mom. Which Hank didn't know he was doing--but Damian's mom did. And not only did she not raise it as a problem, or get blamed for not raising it as a problem, she almost seemed to go out of her way to act as if she had no children, having loud sex and sending a naked Hank wandering through the house where he ran into Damian. It's an annoying thing about the show the way Hank is reckless, yes, but also gets set up.

But in the end, there's no reason that Hank should stop having casual sex to pursue Karen, because Karen is usually with someone else too and doesn't want him. In fact, she's left him. So he's free to have sex with whomever he likes. When he's with Karen he's faithful--and she is not. Karen doesn't take him back so much as keep him on a string and expect him to be there when she wants him, which he always is.

As much as I bitch about the show, I think the whole Mia thing was pretty interesting. I don't think Hank specifically likes to hook up with younger women, and just rolls with whomever he clicks with. I actually think he may have asked Mia if she was 18+ at the time.


Yeah, Hank really isn't that into younger women--women are always throwing themselves at him, young and old, but he's never specifically had a preference. He's even praised the aging woman's body. With Mia he slept with her without finding out her real age (and buying the age she gave him, which I think was the same age as the actress who plays her) and once he found out she was 16 he became the only good adult in her life while Karen enthusiastically told stories about how great it was to sleep with older guys and then made it Hank's responsibility to make sure Mia didn't follow her advice which made no sense.
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#1133

ganesh

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 5:23 PM

So he is at fault there. But still, a lot of times things turn out to be wildly improbably convoluted and the women who are the aggressors somehow wind up acting like he did it.

This also happened when he got fired from the movie too. After he wrote the movie scene in the trailer, the girl took her clothes off, propositioned him, and when he actually said no, proceeded to give him a blowjob.

Not that he protested too much, but if the roles were reversed, they'd be screaming rape.

Karen doesn't take him back so much as keep him on a string and expect him to be there when she wants him, which he always is.

And then yells at him for it. Hank is a doormat and his daughter is just like him. The question is, do TPTB realize that, and what's the endgame for this show?
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#1134

willriley01

willriley01

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 6:17 AM

I love this whole conversation going on. I just have one thing to contribute cuz you guys are pretty much reading my mind lol.

I don't know if the the creator or the writers would want to pinpoint Becca's doormat tendencies on Hank, because then what does that say about their self-proclaimed anti-hero character? I mean I think we all pretty much agree that Hank is Karen's bitch. I hate it and I love it, because to me, I think it speaks to how deep he is. However, most guys don't think like me though and they might think it makes Hank weak if they say Becca is modeled after her father when it comes to relationships. I mean they even did go so far as to have Tyler call himself the newer version of Hank... as much as I disagree. Tyler is no Hank Moody. That little cretin doesn't care for/respect women, I don't care how many moms he has.
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#1135

ganesh

ganesh

    Stalker

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 6:00 PM

TPTB can tell us Tyler is a young Hank all they want, but from what I've seen on the screen, just no way. To be fair, I haven't read anything from TPTB saying "Tyler is the young Hank." The characters might believe it, but because of what I said before, I don't know if TPTB are trying to get us to buy it. Taking the show as a whole, Hank has had a lot of influence on Becca, and she clearly has these doormat tendencies Hank does. Granted, she's 18, and this seems to be her "1st love situation," but it's a fact now that Tyler cheated on her and then she was going to marry him?

I'm glad he's going away. I don't want him around next season. Becca needs to cut these people loose and just get out of there.

It makes me laugh. Because on Big Love, TPTB kept saying how heroic Bill was, and compared their lifestyle to gay people fighting for marriage equality. Which was the most patently ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Edited by ganesh, Apr 11, 2012 @ 6:03 PM.

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#1136

azbabe2229

azbabe2229

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 3:32 PM

And then yells at him for it. Hank is a doormat and his daughter is just like him. The question is, do TPTB realize that, and what's the endgame for this show?


I read an interview a few months ago while S5 was still being filmed, and the creator Tom K said he wanted the show to keep going for as long as possible, so I believe that there is no 'end game' per se for this show. Every season it is on will most likely end up with Hank being blamed for everything that has happened on the show, and then he will come back into Karen and Becca's lives the next season to be martyred some more.

I only watch this show because DD is sexy and I love to watch his facial expressions, but the show itself seems to waste it's talents on the same MO every year, 'Hank is responsible for every bad thing that happens to Karen and Becca'. At least that is all I get out of it.
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#1137

ganesh

ganesh

    Stalker

Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:05 AM

If that's the case, that TPTB want to keep the show going, then I would suggest they look at Weeds as an example of a long running show that reinvents itself. Why not next season be set in NYC then? What does Karen do professionally that is so important that she needs to be in LA? Why not have the season entirely with them in a committed relationship? TPTB can actually work out whether they think these two are really meant to be together. Or, if they have to be in LA, Hank maybe writes a really good script that isn't going to be mainstream, and there's a lot to do to make it a movie.
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#1138

azbabe2229

azbabe2229

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:31 PM

Why not have the season entirely with them in a committed relationship? TPTB can actually work out whether they think these two are really meant to be together.

After 5 years I have come to despise Karen, so for me I would not be happy to have her in every scene with Hank. He is so much better when she is not around.
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#1139

Scrb

Scrb

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:52 PM

Then it becomes a domestic sitcom like those on the networks?

So Hank doesn't get involved in shenanigans because of domestic bliss and there's no titillation factor.

The drama would come from Becca being a party girl or something?
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#1140

ganesh

ganesh

    Stalker

Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 12:14 PM

I actually think Hank needs to get over Karen and move on, but I was just throwing ideas around to show that's it not to hard to frame a narrative direction for the season. Looking at the last season, they were kind of treading water, and if they want to keep the show going for a while they need to think about refreshing it.
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