Jump to content

Paul, Ken & Harry: Supporting Mad Men


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

292 replies to this topic

#211

yslchyc

yslchyc

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:16 AM

Well the last story we saw him write was still sci-fi/fantasy (there was a tiny orchestra in the cabinet) with a touch of John Cheever and Richard Yates.


Given the rest of the voice over I thought the "tiny orchestra" was just a metaphor or title since the story really was about the angst of Pete and others like him. There didn't seem to be anything particularly "fantasy" about it. I thought it - and the new name - meant that he was heading into a more standard "literary fiction" mode which would seem to be not a particularly odd path. I think a fair percentage of writers and other creatives types did their time in ad agencies.

#212

Rdnzl

Rdnzl

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 2:48 PM

SueB- no, I don't consider those things to be majorly shitty. It's shitty behavior, no doubt, but it's not in the same league as constantly cheating on your wife, impregnating another woman while married, using your wife like a tool during a "friendly" dinner with your coworkers, calling your wife "desperate" for wearing a bikini, blaming your wife when your horny boss comes onto her, shoving your wife, slapping your daughter, getting into a car accident with your piece on the side and having one of your underlings use her own money to bail you out, cheating on your husband while you're pregnant with his baby, waiting in the car as your married lover goes home to pack a suitcase so he can run away with you for the weekend, pressuring an au pair to sleep with you because you did something nice for her...yikes, I could go on and on, LOL. I know Ken is far from perfect and that he has an edge, but compared to most of the people on this show, he's an angel.

#213

SueB

SueB

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 6:56 PM

but compared to most of the people on this show, he's an angel.

If we're grading on the curve, Ken does win I think. You're right, what Ken has done is not in the same weight class as the primary characters.

#214

Mariagonerlj

Mariagonerlj

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:49 PM

This being Misdirection Man, though, I wouldn't be surprised to find Ken eventually swinging from chandeliers and carrying torrid affairs with both of his in-laws on the side. His only hope is to never have a juicy sub-plot at all!

#215

Rai

Rai

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:28 PM

I just wish to say Harry's line about the photos of the Earth and how he found them "Majestic!" was comic gold.

#216

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

I hope someone's made a .gif of Ken's dancing in this ep!

#217

Mariagonerlj

Mariagonerlj

    Couch Potato

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:37 PM

Please link if you can find one! It was adorable!

#218

withtranquileye

withtranquileye

    Channel Surfer

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:33 AM

Please link if you can find one! It was adorable!

I found two: the first one has two gifs of him plus Don's reaction shot and the second is slowed down, I think. I hope that was what you were looking for. Sorry if my English is incorrect!

#219

Mariagonerlj

Mariagonerlj

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 2:08 AM

Thank you! Just what I was looking for. Look at Ken go!

#220

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:25 AM

Thank you so much for finding those--and your English is great! Love the request to set it to Moves Like Jagger.

#221

Stainsbygirl

Stainsbygirl

    Just Tuned In

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 5:42 PM

Dance Ken dance!Thankyou withtranquileye! :) I have to admit Ken was always my fave amongst the 'frat boys' group at Sterling Cooper. He is probably the only character that has grown up without angst! I love Dons face!

Edited by Stainsbygirl, May 8, 2012 @ 5:43 PM.


#222

Limbonaut

Limbonaut

    Stalker

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 1:54 AM

Yay Paul's back and he's a....Hare Krishna. And he wrote a Star Trek spec script....called the "The Negron Complex".

#223

jadenaturals

jadenaturals

    Channel Surfer

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 5:34 PM

Am I the only one who thinks it would have been better for Harry to have given Paul's script to Ken for review? At this point it's not a secret that Ken is a SciFi writer, so wouldn't he be more knowledgeable of what would be acceptable for Star Trek than Peggy?

#224

JudyObscure

JudyObscure

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 7:56 PM

I was glad to see Harry do such a nice thing for Paul. Everyone's been so nasty to him this season. Megan: "Do I have to invite Harry?" Ken: "You weren't even there." Peggy: "What promises did anyone make to you?"

Harry's a man with ordinary intelligence working with brilliant people. He can definitely be a jerk, but I think underneath his insecurity he's a fairly decent man.

Paul may be just phoney enough to be a huge success in Hollywood.

#225

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 8:37 PM

Am I the only one who thinks it would have been better for Harry to have given Paul's script to Ken for review? At this point it's not a secret that Ken is a SciFi writer, so wouldn't he be more knowledgeable of what would be acceptable for Star Trek than Peggy?


They didn't need a sci-fi writer to know it was a bad script. Harry probably does have more experience with script format. We don't know that Ken's ever seen Star Trek.

#226

Medigal

Medigal

    Fanatic

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 8:47 PM

Paul may be just phoney enough to be a huge success in Hollywood.

Love this observation. Would be great to have an end of series flash forward a la Six Feet Under and show Paul and a HUGE Hollywood producer.

I think Harry is just a giant ass. Lakshmi? Really? Hi Jennifer how bout some good ole VD for you and our baby? Plus Paul didn't ask for Harry opinion of his script, just to pass it on. Harry made a judgment that it was bad. Maybe he's right and maybe he's wrong but he should have just passed it on and let the chips fall where they may. Paul's grown man.

#227

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 21, 2012 @ 9:10 PM

He couldn't pass it on, regardless. That would have been totally unprofessional and interfere with Harry's job.

#228

jadenaturals

jadenaturals

    Channel Surfer

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 22, 2012 @ 3:39 AM

It doesn't matter whether Harry could pass it on or not. It just seems like he was not seriously questioning the quality of Paul's script if his thought was to consult Peggy. Ken is a published Sci-Fi/Fantasy writer, so he is more qualified to know what genre writer/fans would like. If someone asked me what I thought was the best Star Trek episode, I'd say "Spock's Brain." Is that the best written, most well-regarded episode of the original series? Nope, but it made me laugh so hard, it made the marathon my Trekker ex-boyfriend put me though worthwhile. I think I fell asleep during "City on the Edge of Forever." So it just seems silly to me that they would establish that everyone knows Ken's side-career, but not take advantage of it in another plot. Heck, they could use Paul to usher Ken out (as a Star Trek writing team), since they rarely use his character anyway.

Edited by jadenaturals, May 22, 2012 @ 3:40 AM.


#229

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 22, 2012 @ 10:40 AM

It doesn't matter whether Harry could pass it on or not. It just seems like he was not seriously questioning the quality of Paul's script if his thought was to consult Peggy.


He was really only consulting Peggy to talk about the awkwardness of telling Paul it was awful. He wasn't seriously questioning it. He thought it was awful. If Harry knows about Ken's career--which everybody doesn't so Harry might not have a clue about it--he probably still wouldn't have felt the need to ask him if it really worked. He went to Peggy because she was less threatening and could give him advice on the personal question of how he could let him down easy or what he should say.

#230

Cherith

Cherith

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 22, 2012 @ 2:28 PM

He couldn't pass it on, regardless. That would have been totally unprofessional and interfere with Harry's job.


If it was good he would have passed it on. That would only have helped him. Just like he wanted to talk to his connection to get Joey on TV (making Joey think he was gay).

It just seems like he was not seriously questioning the quality of Paul's script if his thought was to consult Peggy.


Harry outright told Peggy that it was awful and he didn't know how to crush Paul like that. Peggy said if this was the best Paul could do then he shouldn't be doing it.

This is ironic because it is basically the same exact plot as a famous episode of Star Trek, of course. But clearly Harry and Peggy aren't fans.

#231

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 22, 2012 @ 2:33 PM

If it was good he would have passed it on. That would only have helped him. Just like he wanted to talk to his connection to get Joey on TV (making Joey think he was gay).


You're right, if Harry saw it as a ticket to his own advancement he'd have found a way. But his original reaction was correct that he didn't want to become known for passing on the work of writers doing spec scripts. I think that's very different than saying you saw a guy who looked good for TV. If you're just showing a guy with the right look there's fewer strings attached. Passing along a script your friend wrote is asking something from the reader in ways the Joey situation isn't.

#232

Shelley Bee

Shelley Bee

    Couch Potato

Posted May 24, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

Harry and Paul have long seemed hapless and pretentious asses, respectively, but it took an episode where Harry cheats on his wife with his old friend's "soulmate" for me to see either of them as likeable.

Poor Paul. I always wondered what became of him, but if this is the last we ever see of him, I won't be sorry. I consider his story done. The last image I need to see of Paul Kinsey is him holding $500 and a plane ticket, with and hope and gratitude in his heart. I'll just assume it all works out for him.

#233

SueB

SueB

    Stalker

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 12:43 PM

Love this observation. Would be great to have an end of series flash forward a la Six Feet Under and show Paul and a HUGE Hollywood producer.


YES!! Please. I think Paul's script was perfect for Star Trek. And I'm a huge Trek fan. I wouldn't have liked it anymore than "Let this be your last Battlefield" but it fit in the vein.

#234

Lollia Pollina

Lollia Pollina

    Couch Potato

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 1:01 PM

Would be great to have an end of series flash forward a la Six Feet Under and show Paul and a HUGE Hollywood producer.


For me, Paul's reappearance is fate's (i.e. Weiner's) way of punishing for being snooty to Our Peggy. Consider him suitably punished. Having him have any kind of creative talent for television writing would be heresy. He always is and always will be inferior to practically perfect Peggy.

#235

Luciaphile

Luciaphile

    Fanatic

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

For me, Paul's reappearance is fate's (i.e. Weiner's) way of punishing for being snooty to Our Peggy. Consider him suitably punished. Having him have any kind of creative talent for television writing would be heresy. He always is and always will be inferior to practically perfect Peggy.


When I rewatch the reruns on Sunday mornings from Season 1, it seems pretty clear that Paul was never a top tier copywriter. Other than the Jackie/Marilyn campaign (Season 2?), Don is usually rejecting Paul's work.

#236

Lollia Pollina

Lollia Pollina

    Couch Potato

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 3:08 PM

, it seems pretty clear that Paul was never a top tier copywriter. Other than the Jackie/Marilyn campaign (Season 2?), Don is usually rejecting Paul's work.


Agreed. Paul's whole dramatic purpose in Mad Men is to be not as good as Peggy.

#237

Luciaphile

Luciaphile

    Fanatic

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 3:15 PM

I don't see that at all, but I guess it's a case of YMMV.

#238

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted May 25, 2012 @ 3:25 PM

I don't see that at all, but I guess it's a case of YMMV.


I don't either. I thought Paul's whole character was based around that search to be something and not finding it. Different outfits, different poses, different props, but always feeling like an outsider on the inside. He was at Princeton, but as a scholarship student he was never quite a Princeton man in his mind. He was a copywriter, but saw that he didn't have the gift for that. He claimed he was an artist, but didn't really have anything he wanted to write. He was committed to the civil rights movement, but didn't really draw enough courage from his convictions to feel at home on the bus. I don't think his character had much to do with Peggy at all (not in terms of shared screen time, but in terms of Paul's own motivations). Peggy was just an easy example for him, a person he could watch, longingly, belong somewhere and find what she was good at while he didn't feel that way. Ken was the same way as a writer--which is what Paul wants to be much more than he wants to be a copywriter.

Edited by Sister Magpie, May 25, 2012 @ 3:32 PM.


#239

GreekGeek

GreekGeek

    Couch Potato

Posted May 26, 2012 @ 6:31 AM

I wonder why Paul ended up as a copywriter in the first place. He seems as if he would be happier working for a literary magazine or a publishing house.

#240

Luciaphile

Luciaphile

    Fanatic

Posted May 26, 2012 @ 9:11 AM

The ad job came along first? It was a glamorous profession. He had a little talent for it and it probably paid the bills. Maybe Paul figured he'd do his writing on the side at the same time, and like many people in that same position never did much of the writing part. Then the realization that he's as good as he's ever going to get and the discontent sets in.