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Torchwood: The Arse Spreads Across the Atlantic


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#20281

blackcat1000

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 9:16 PM

I like BC! It works on many levels LOL

I'm with you on why Jack chooses Ianto over Gwen - playing the BIG DAMN HERO for her constantly would be too hard work! Give him a nice, normal bloke, no complications (relationship wise - no one Ianto is cheating on), just fun times to get away from the madness of work. The fact that Ianto also has a brain & can hold a conversation, doesn't follow Jack around like a sheep etc, all pluses! And of course Ianto is ready,willing and able. :-D

Edited by blackcat1000, Dec 8, 2012 @ 9:25 PM.

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#20282

swansong

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 9:37 PM

Ta for the editing bit BC( a new nickname do you like it ? smile) and poor Kathy must have got pushed out we saw the others crowded round Owen, i was thinking does anyone remember the whole "secret part" of TW in that bit LOL


How can Torchwood be secret? lol. Their name is etched on their car and despite Gwen's ignorance about TW in Everything Changes from Day One it's clear the police know them even if they don't know exactly what they do. Plus they've shown up at crime scenes and told people they're Torchwood. Jack texts Gwen to come into work and uses 'Torchwood'. So yeah not very secret at all. Certainly not as secret as they pretend. When Tosh mentions to Mary she shouldn't even know about TW Mary should have just said 'well you do run around town with your name on the car'.
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#20283

SDcat2009

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 9:49 PM

LOL, I figure that it's a running meta joke that Torchwood is "secret".
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#20284

swansong

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 9:53 PM

I figure that it's a running meta joke that Torchwood is "secret".


I suspect that's only in s2 when they realise that's one of the things they couldn't keep straight from episode to episode.


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#20285

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 10:01 PM

When Tosh mentions to Mary she shouldn't even know about TW Mary should have just said 'well you do run around town with your name on the car'.



LOL, i love that Swansong it was a daft thing to say of course there would be rumours and tid bits about what TW does or is and i don't mind any of that, just like Andy and his "Spooky Dos", it's the things like Owen opening talking about a drug that they manufacture in front of the Police that's quiet WTF LOL but this is also the dude that orders pizza in their name so Owen has learnt nothing since EC LOL. Or Gwen being thick about TW existing, no offence but unless it affects her personally she doesn't seem to pay that much attention to things.


I'm with you on why Jack chooses Ianto over Gwen


Nice to have you with me BC LOL but what's the show supposed to be saying, it's like there is two Jack's , normal Jack who really doesn't enjoy being the Boss but needs to be and loves the hero worship if he can walk away from it or Gwen's Jack who doesn't notice people or their feelings and is desperate to connect to the world and she does that connecting by being this compassionate normal person and he loves her normality which is why he can't have a relationship that he wants with her and she needs to stay with her boyfriend for him,they don't seem like the same people
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#20286

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 10:46 PM

it's like there is two Jack's


I think you're right mousey, there's normal Jack from DW & Gwen's Jack, her fantasy man. So maybe all of the eps where Jack is being Gwen's Jack are really just her fantasies? :-)

Edited by blackcat1000, Dec 8, 2012 @ 10:54 PM.

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#20287

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 10:56 PM

I think you're right mousey, there's normal Jack from DW & Gwen's Jack, her fanasy man. So maybe all of the eps where Jack is being Gwen's Jack are really just her fantasies? :-)


LOL,oh no i'm not bringing DW Jack into it makes 3 for me LOL, cause what happened to that very competent soldier guy from DW with 9. He is hardly seen in TW so Gwen can be the star, we lose him and i miss him LOL


Also just a quick note to mention about my reviews i'll be doing Random Shoes midweek, while liking Eugene and the story another Gwen is Great lets all praise her greatness after TKKS is too much LOL, so just getting it out of the way cause i find it boring, sorry about changing the schedule on anyone

Edited by itsmeyousee, Dec 8, 2012 @ 10:57 PM.

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#20288

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 11:04 PM

LOL, okay, normal TW Jack who evolved from DW Jack during the writing of TW & Gwen's fantasy Jack.

I'm good for midweek for RS - not a favourite of mine so happy to get it out of the way so we are good for FOOTR!
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#20289

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 11:23 PM

LOL, okay, normal TW Jack who evolved from DW Jack during the writing of TW & Gwen's fantasy Jack.


Not so sure about that one, with this Jack until Cyberwoman and that's when i believed they were the same people until then, no one listened to a word he said, all of his staff including the new chick lied to him, by taking whatever they wanted out of the Hub, aside from Ianto who used it in another room LOL, sorry those first three eps weren't good for Jack

I'm good for midweek for RS - not a favourite of mine so happy to get it out of the way so we are good for FOOTR!


Sorry FOOTR ? as much as i love that ep and i do, it's one of my favs it's Season 2, did you mean OOT ?
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#20290

blackcat1000

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Posted Dec 8, 2012 @ 11:34 PM

LOL, yep, that's the one! OOT, there were people from the past in it. Not as much Ianto though! I'm just going to go & read a very long PDF on consumer credit protection now. That way I can concentrate on which ep is which LOL

Edited by blackcat1000, Dec 8, 2012 @ 11:35 PM.

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#20291

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 9, 2012 @ 12:12 AM

Not as much Ianto though


No we have to wait for Combat for Ianto, thank everything for him and eating those grapes LOL, cause otherwise i would have given up with Gwen and Owen, there are arseholes and then these two things my goodness don't think i've ever hated a character more than Gwen in Combat and didn't care about Owen to start with LOL
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#20292

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Posted Dec 10, 2012 @ 6:17 PM

Just watched bits of Reset today. I don't think Jack ever laughs as much as in this episode (in Torchwood anyway; not sure about Doctor Who)...right? Too bad. Can't have a happy Jack, huh? Poor Ianto. Owen doesn't even apologize (typical) for the scalpel demonstration gone wrong. (Did Ianto literally toss his cookies? Well, biscuits. Don't know what else would've been on that tray.) That face is hysterical, though. And the way he pointedly looks at Owen before moving on to business. LOL

Edited by indeed, Dec 10, 2012 @ 6:19 PM.

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#20293

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Posted Dec 10, 2012 @ 6:37 PM

It is too bad Indeed aside from that and GBG where Jack is laughing at Owen and Gwen singing does Jack laugh like that anywhere else, he's not sad all the time or angst ridden but there are very few LOL moments, i guess that why i love Ianto laughing in DW Stolen Earth, i guess that the reverse of this moment when Ianto does he "Jack" and Jack gets serious to Jack saying "time and place in " in DW

I imagine them having lots of laughter outside of work time, there is too much humour between the two of them not to, it can't be all angst ridden, they don't seem like that normally
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#20294

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Posted Dec 10, 2012 @ 9:47 PM

Doesn't he laugh in Cyberwoman at the beginning when he's telling some story about some woman who was cavorting with an alien?

Edited by swansong, Dec 11, 2012 @ 7:05 AM.

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#20295

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Posted Dec 10, 2012 @ 10:31 PM

Does he laugh before he has to pee in DO, too? It's just that he laughed I think at least three separate times in Reset. A couple of times when he's talking to Martha and then when Ianto yelps. I think that may be the record.

Edited by indeed, Dec 10, 2012 @ 10:32 PM.

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#20296

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 11, 2012 @ 6:01 PM

Imagine me forgetting about the DO one laughing together shocker LOL


Ok my review for Random Shoes written by Jacquetta May, so normal blame or praise her, i'm doing neither i like the story but i'm completely bored cause it's another praise the Great Gwen ep and there is just so many of those that you can watch in a row, it's like Jack and it's all about his past storyline after 3 in row who cares anymore. It would have been so much better if it was another character like Tosh or Jack that Eugene was in love with Owen wouldn't have worked cause no -one would believe that he would check it out and you can't have Ianto unless Eugene found the Hub but Gwen again, too much. It's all summed up by Owen "Gwen, he had a thing about you, now you're feeling guilty " Owen the voice of reason in this ep amazing LOL

1. Fav Moment- Owen, saying to Gwen "And why is it only Gwen seems to have a heart. I don't know if you've noticed but the rest of us are human and amazingly we still manage to get on with our jobs" Thank Gosh someone said that

And Ianto just cause he looks hot for the seconds we see him LOL

2. Worse Moment - Ianto finds Eugene collection shows Owen, Owen then goes downstairs to get Gwen and Gwen is the one to notice that something is missing from the stand right in the front, oh c'mon that is so stupid what Ianto and Owen are blind now for f sake the Gwen worship has hit new lows PTB

3. Most Interesting Character Moments - Owen's interest in Gwen seems to have waned even before Dianne rocks up

Jack just being the Boss with Gwen, no big dramatic convo needed for her to investigate this just give him a reason and she also got in trouble for turning her phone off , it was amazing LOL

For all the bullocks throughout the ep of the wonderful Gwen she is only at Eugene funeral to get the eye back and couldn't even be bothered dress properly , she is in her "work clothes" way to show respect Gwen

4. WTF- Was Owen meant to be in the opening scene and BG wasn't available so they shoved Tosh in, "he couldn't even cross the road properly" Tosh that was cruel as and the whole who is sitting where in the car. Tosh always sits in the back that's where her computer shit is but not this time let's have a convo so Gwen is in the back with shock horror Eugene LOL

Eugene's phone must have the most amazing batteries ever invented Gwen is playing with that thing for days and never has to recharge,should have looked at the phone for alien gear LOL

And the big one, What the f about Eugene family after all of that it's more important that Eugene is saying goodbye to Gwen rather than his own family , another low PTB for shoving Gwen in and bugger the story

5. Religious/Literary - well i'm guessing any Ghost story written and Ghost the movie since Eugene could go into the light after saving his beloved life (barf) LOL
And i guess also religious since he did go into the light and not some "nothing, just darkness"

6. Something New - Did Gwen get a new car after TKKS that's not the one from TKKS

7. Humanity Good/Bad - Absolutely Good, big message about a good life and enjoying life , enjoying the mundane of life, cause that's what life is, stop waiting for the "special/big moments" and enjoy your normal life, also areshole dads are people too

8. Anything Else - yes the Mum is this was brilliant she made the ep for me, you could feel her grief and shock so take a bow she was truly wonderful

Fanfics not that many for this, really bugger all that i could find and the only two worth reading were these two unless you know of some better ones ?

http://www.whofic.co...y.php?sid=17164

This one is about Jack and what if what Eugene had was this eye thing he was describing to Gwen and he used it


http://beesandbrews....com/240963.html

This one is a fun convo with Ianto and Jack as they put away the Eye
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#20297

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Posted Dec 11, 2012 @ 8:20 PM

Ok They Keep Killing Suzie.

Fav Moment I would say the final scene, but really it's Kathy Swanson. She's a bit brilliant. Couldn't she have been a recurring character? Also the sign on the wall in the morgue that reads 'gloves and masks should be worn at all times' so of course neither Jack or Ianto are wearing any of that. Ah Torchwood and Health and Safety. Never change.

Worse Moment Suzie's bizarre hero worship/lovefest of Gwen. She barely knows her, but apparently after only a few minutes in her presence already knows she's the most beloved, brilliant, most specialist and beautiful person ever in existence. I'd say she's just playing her, but sadly no. She even delays her escape, the one she went to all this trouble for and had people murdered for, just so she can be with her a few moments longer. Really show? I guess if they were a religious show they'd probably have people just standing around singing alleluia every time Gwen walks by. It's begun to reach those levels and we haven't even reached Random Shoes yet.

WTF Suzie plans for every contingency except the all important who will bring her back. Doesn't that make her plan a bit useless? The glove works on empathy? Does this show know what empathy means? I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve murdering a bunch of people just to test a glove on them or dragging people back to relive the worst moment of their lives just so your lazy arse doesn't have to do any actual leg work. Does Jack actually vet the people who work for him? His apparent lack of knowledge about anything Suzie would suggest no. Why exactly does TW keep every scrap of property their agents own whether it's work related or not? Just because they can? Work related materials I can see, but the rest seems a bit excessive. I can see keeping their bodies if it's too alien related to cover up, but they can't come up with a more effective way to deal with dead agents? Don't the families etc. of these people ever get curious about what happened to them? So any guesses on what sex acts can be performed with a stopwatch.

Religious/Literary
There's nothing after death except for that something that's apparently shacked up with you in the dark after death. And you have a consciousness? Is that how Suzie's able to assess Gwen's brilliance? I will say it was a pretty well-written and well acted scene though

Something New Not really. Just some new scenes that were clearly edited from the broadcast. Oh there is that moment when Gwen collapses and chivalrous Jack picks up the glove and just leaves her on the ground until Owen goes to her. lol. Ianto's propositioning of Jack over Suzie's corpse is really random and weird and has no real lead up, but I have to give the actors major credit because they make it actually seem like the most natural thing for Ianto to do it despite all that.

Humanity Good/Bad
well Suzie likes to murder people and abuse drugs on them and Gwen, the heart, doesn't seem that bothered that she's making people relive the most horrific moment of their lives as long as she gets her way and apparently nobody cares about poor dead Suzie so not exactly a good episode for humanity.

Anything Else
Yet more proof in this episode that it makes no sense that Gwen's never heard of TW before EC.
I've also realised that I miss weird Ianto (that UO, right? Or maybe not). His weird, not really funny jokes that are funny (at least to me) because they're not really funny. His bizarre rhyming naming of artifacts, his bizarre sex props that even manage to stump sex aficionado Jack. Him sitting quietly in the background coming up with a solution while everyone else is wondering what to do next.

Edited by swansong, Dec 11, 2012 @ 8:36 PM.

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#20298

itsmeyousee

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Posted Dec 11, 2012 @ 9:09 PM

The glove works on empathy? Does this show know what empathy means?


No LOL I don't think so Swansong considering who it decides is the only empathic person at TW is Gwen and she is the one who suggests very quickly i might add to use the Glove and to kill Suzie again and gets impatient that Jack doesn't do it properly the first time, shouldn't you care about the trauma you are putting the dead people through and your supposed "work mates" as you tell them to re - kill a team mate that committed suicide a couple of months ago if you are empathetic apparently not.

And why does the other Glove work for Jack ? I think they work on desire, it's the only thing i can think of that connects them all. Suzie wanted this Glove to work really badly the others happy to lock it away, Gwen wanted to do this really badly as well unlike Jack who was uneasy about doing it again after what happened with Suzie but with Owen Jack wanted it really bad, he didn't want to let Owen go, all emotions connect well a thousand times better than empathic Gwen who was hurry and kill her already LOL


Suzie plans for every contingency except the all important who will bring her back. Doesn't that make her plan a bit useless?


Like i mentioned before the Glove being the only reason her plans can work, doesn't work LOL they fixed in the Audio Book Long Time Dead
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#20299

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Posted Dec 11, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

Like i mentioned before the Glove being the only reason her plans can work, doesn't work LOL they fixed in the Audio Book Long Time Dead


The problem with that is that not everyone who watches the show wants to read the books or even knows about them so it would be nice for them to have thought about it a bit more within the actual show. I mean I can fanwank that Suzie apparently had all this knowledge about the glove to put her elaborate plan into effect and hid it even though there's no indication she could work it that effectively in EC. But as it is Suzie must have not only had a glove that could bring her back from the dead, but a crystal ball that told her the next person who would be hired would be so amazing she'd be able to get the glove working perfectly first try.

I agree it's probably more a very strong personal desire that probably makes the glove work for them since I don't think Gwen, Suzie or Jack's actions ever consider the effect on the people their using the glove on. But they keep insisting it's empathy because that's what Gwen's supposed to be about when actually all their actions are pretty cruel and selfish.

Edited by swansong, Dec 11, 2012 @ 9:28 PM.

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#20300

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Posted Dec 12, 2012 @ 3:09 AM

The problem with that is that not everyone who watches the show wants to read the books or even knows about them so it would be nice for them to have thought about it a bit more within the actual show.


I know that's why i said "fixed it" LOL wonder if they also got an outpouring of flak for it and that's why they fixed it much like HOTD and Ianto or they just went now we have added to the story lets make it connect better.Cause i do remember something about Ianto line about Gloves coming in pairs was just a throw away line there wasn't a plan for the second glove.

but a crystal ball that told her the next person who would be hired would be so amazing she'd be able to get the glove working perfectly first try.


That's the worse bit about the ep, Gwen why is she the major player in this story, she doesn't know Suzie or Suzie her, how is that Gwen understands what to do as in reaching out to the person, i mean you can put the Glove and go i'm really sorry you died that's empathy but how does that help know how to focus your empathetic powers if you haven't done it before. The rest of TW didn't know all of Suzie research into getting this to work we know that much , so put it on and it just works doesn't seem right LOL. Maybe they cut out lots from Suzie rambling to Gwen in EC and they already did some sort of a Vulcan mind meld or something LOL

I agree it's probably more a very strong personal desire


That's all i can think of to make it all work, empathy is about the other person and none of their feelings were about the other person not even Gwen with the first one, when Jack tells her to stop that he's gone it's all "i can do it" that's not empathy that's about Gwen and she brought him back
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#20301

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Posted Dec 13, 2012 @ 3:30 PM

FYI: John Barrowman viewing.

From BBC America-Facebook: Get to know special guest, John Barrowman, and some of our other celebrity pop culture enthusiasts who will breaking down 'The Doctor Who Ultimate List of Lists' in our 'Brit List' special on Friday, December 21 at 10/9c.
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#20302

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Posted Dec 13, 2012 @ 3:42 PM

Speaking of Barrowman, he's been pretty fun on Arrow so far. He's a fun villain. And seems to be eyefucking everyone in sight. It's hilarious
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#20303

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 8:27 AM

Well I don't like RS at all, I don't see the point of the ep except that Super!Gwen is now psychic. The only moment I liked is when Eugene faints at his own autopsy. To watch this ep I need the sound muted & subtitles on. Something new - Gwen takes Jack's hand as they are all looking up to the sky after Eugene finally goes (up, apparently).
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#20304

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 9:45 PM

To watch this ep I need the sound muted & subtitles on. Something new - Gwen takes Jack's hand as they are all looking up to the sky after Eugene finally goes (up, apparently).


Why didn't i think of that LOL, but that does say that in the subtitles BC cause i don't remember that, it's just Gwen sitting by herself on the gutter saying don't leave Eugene. I was all you cares about you why isn't he saying anything to his family especially his poor Mum, how can Gwen be more important than his Mum in the ep we just watched for f sake
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#20305

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 10:14 PM

I know what you mean mousey, no final words for his mum or brother who he'd spent his life with, just his dad got to see him one last time & it's all because of Gwen! I just don't see the point of the ep. It was a genuine alien eye, which if team TW had bothered to talk to him just once they would have got it while he was still alive he wouldn't have died like this. So basically it's Gwen's fault Eugene got killed by a drunk driver.

ETA: Maybe that's why this was new to me - this time I watched the blu ray version so maybe this scene isn't on the DVD version?

Edited by blackcat1000, Dec 14, 2012 @ 10:24 PM.

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#20306

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 10:32 PM

I don't know about that , cause it doesn't look like Eugene tells them about the eye even in passing, i'm not sure why TW are at the accident to start with who call them in for a hit and run, Meat i get cause of the weird meat, this no idea. I can't even imagine Gwen getting called by Andy for a hit and run accident. So i don't blame TW at all and they are only checking it out because of Gwen, even with the eye she doesn't know, she is just scrambling for a reason to get Jack to let her investigate it.

I think a bigger question is why wasn't this sale flagged by Tosh, bidding on an "alien eye" on Ebay wouldn't she have programs to flag that type of thing and that would have been a better way to get TW involved. But since Gwen finds out about it during her investigation that says TW didn't know about it

The whole Eugene being a TW fan/groupie and of course falling in love with Gwen , then being ignored is ok to a certain point, cause i was wondering why Eugene is so thick that he always tries to chat when they first rock up somewhere , why not wait until clean up time when everyone isn't as intense, you might find people are more willing to chat then rather than when they are emergency mode

I think the whole ep is about how wonderful Gwen is again and she is willing to go out on her own to help people , defies Jack first off and nearly dies, gosh that whole premise sounds sooooooooo familiar couldn't be TKKS that we just watched could it LOL

EDIT please tell me you don't want me to go back a watch to find out LOL, maybe i didn't pay any attention , cause one i was pissed that we got nothing with his family and two the ripping off of Ghost was lame

Edited by itsmeyousee, Dec 14, 2012 @ 10:35 PM.

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#20307

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 10:50 PM

LOL, no mousey I wouldn't ask that of my worse enemy!!! But maybe when someone else watches it they can comment?

As for why TW were at a hit & run is a mystery unless they were on their way to/from somewhere & were in the area at the right time? Or a plot hole. But an alien eye being sold on ebay not being noticed that is a worry & it would have made more sense. But then it still comes back to Eugene wouldn't have been killed this way if they had been paying attention or not ignoring him. As you say, he didn't choose the best timing or even know about the tourist office front which he could have gone to & had a chat with Ianto. Maybe even a retcon laced cuppa?
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#20308

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 11:24 PM

even know about the tourist office front which he could have gone to & had a chat with Ianto. Maybe even a retcon laced cuppa?


But that's the very secret entrance, hoping not to drug people just to get a storyline LOL and that's why i thought Ianto couldn't have been the one instead of Gwen, imagine Tosh being the one instead of Gwen as she gets frustrated that tech will only go so far or Jack trying to pawn Eugene off on the others as he feels guilty and checks it out himself, we just had some sort of psychic powers from Jack why couldn't he feel Eugene was still rabbiting on after he died , would have made a much more interesting story the "Gwen the Great" again LOL


But i don't see this as being TW fault, it's his mates fault for lying and trying to rip him off, i think only TW blame comes into it when they don't find out about the very open Ebay selling LOL, there isn't any reason for TW to think Eugene has anything, remotely worth investigating not like he is in the "Alien Blackmarket" as a normal seller of goods otherwise i don't think he would work in a call centre just some young groupie infatuated with Gwen. You would have no work at all to do if Eugene was a case they should have been watching

But the eye that Jack was talking about didn't even do what happened with Eugene, didn't Jack say you could go back and relive moments in your past and that's why it was prized. Eugene was a ghost in the present that didn't move into the light until he saved his beloved Gwen, we are just missing Whoopi Goldberg from Ghost , cause his friends did to him as well just like Patrick LOL
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#20309

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Posted Dec 14, 2012 @ 11:51 PM

But i don't see this as being TW fault, it's his mates fault for lying and trying to rip him off, i think only TW blame comes into it when they don't find out about the very open Ebay selling LOL, there isn't any reason for TW to think Eugene has anything, remotely worth investigating not like he is in the "Alien Blackmarket" as a normal seller of goods otherwise i don't think he would work in a call centre just some young groupie infatuated with Gwen. You would have no work at all to do if Eugene was a case they should have been watching


TW is responsible for the lives and deaths of a number of ordinary folk, but Eugene isn't one of them no matter how much the episode tries to make it so. He's basically Gwen's (and the show's, for that matter) vanity project. I mean it's sad he dies so needlessly, but of all the people TW should be held accountable for this case makes the least sense. In fact that's what beats me about this episode. When TW are responsible for the deaths of people the episodes don't seem to think that's worth acknowledging, but then we get this entire episode about why TW is so heartless because they never cared about Eugene. This is one instance when I'm firmly on TW's side.

i think only TW blame comes into it when they don't find out about the very open Ebay selling LOL


In s2 they do supposedly monitor sales of alien artifacts and have for a long time, but maybe it's just for that one guy. Or it never occurred to them that someone might use ebay to sell alien junk. lol
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#20310

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Posted Dec 15, 2012 @ 1:18 AM

In s2 they do supposedly monitor sales of alien artifacts and have for a long time, but maybe it's just for that one guy. Or it never occurred to them that someone might use ebay to sell alien junk. lol


LOL, isn't Ebay where you would sell the junk LOL for some strange reason and maybe it's said in this ep and i have blanked it already LOL but isn't something mentioned about someone selling "alien gear" it's not relevant to the ep, maybe that's where we got Richard Briers from in Season 2 can't remember characters name sorry and they were already talking about him ? I don't sell on Ebay but shouldn't the massive price jump have raised red flags all over the place including TW if they do monitor stuff otherwise what is Tosh doing half the time

TW is responsible for the lives and deaths of a number of ordinary folk, but Eugene isn't one of them no matter how much the episode tries to make it so


If there is some sort of background message behind TW it's they don't understand English LOL, so far empathy wouldn't have a clue, responsibility seems to mean something very different, heart and guilt are way off the mark, compassion versus stupidity and selfless and selfish aren't the same words it's quite a jumble LOL

My problem with the ep is it's the same as TKKS Gwen gets on her high horse about how unfeeling TW are even though she has acted just the same but she will fix it, disobeys Jack and needs saving, if they were going to do two stories the same couldn't we have had Gwen in the background in the Suzie ep and concentrate on the people who actually knew Suzie LOL but i wonder what the writer wanted out of this story cause twice in the one ep Gwen is actually called out by Owen for her crap and Jack treats her like an employee , discuss the why before hand and don't blow off your job here, it was amazing LOL
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