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Betty Draper Francis: Grace Kelly With a Twist


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#901

StrangeFruit86

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 9:18 AM

The show is not the same without her.

#902

Zorro

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 9:37 AM

Betty is from Elkins Park, a very nice suburb or Philly, but not technically, "Main LIne".

#903

rogaine2233

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 12:29 PM

Betty is from Elkins Park, a very nice suburb or Philly, but not technically, "Main LIne".


Yes, you are correct. EP is right next to Cheltenham and both places were some of the first towns where people fled to from inside the city. Back then, and when I was growing up, EP was very nice and quite a few of my friends from elementary school moved there from Philly. Not quite as nice as Melrose Park but nicer than Cheltenham, though MP and EP still went to Chelt High. All three were part of the same Township.

But the reason I mentioned "Main Line" is that it was mentioned several times on the show. The only time I saw Elkins Park mentioned, it was a wiki reference and I'm not sure how accurate those are. It's possible I missed the actual EP reference in the show. I remember Don calling her a "spoiled Main Line" brat.

I miss Betty.

Based on the last scene in S4 and the phone conversations from "Tea Leaves", I just don't think Don and Betty are done. Not that they'll ever re-marry..that would be a disaster. But there's a connection there and I really hope the writers explored it this season.

BTW, if the Megan thread title was changed to Megan Calvet Draper, shouldn't this thread title read Betty Draper Francis?

Edited by rogaine2233, May 1, 2012 @ 1:41 PM.


#904

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 4:46 PM

I want more Betty and I don't want her to be skinny the next time we see her with a flip, "I drank Metrecal," explanation. Betty's been a serious weight problem waiting to happen since her mother cut her off hotdogs and I want to see her have the kind of real struggle that crimps the happiness of half the women in the world.

#905

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 5:11 PM

I want more Betty and I don't want her to be skinny the next time we see her

I know right! I have been sanguine about what I perceive to be Weiner's choices thus far this season, but if Fat Betty does not get the full Don Draper, no make that Megan Draper treatment, I am going to be highly upset!

#906

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 5:22 PM

shouldn't this thread title read Betty Draper Francis?

You can suggest that in the moderator thread. I hadn't even noticed the change to Megan's thread title until today!

From what I've read, S5 filming started last August, JJ gave birth on Sept. 13, she returned to the set about a month later. Does anyone know S5 filming wrapped? I haven't been able to find this information online.

#907

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:24 AM

Does anyone know S5 filming wrapped? I haven't been able to find this information online.

I believe it was Jan 17th. The TCA party was January 15th 2012 and Matt Weiner said in an interview they would be done filming in less than 48 hours.

So PLENTY of time for Betty to be in episodes if she returned in October.

#908

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:30 AM

I believe it was Jan 17th. The TCA party was January 15th 2012 and Matt Weiner said in an interview they would be done filming in less than 48 hours.

So PLENTY of time for Betty to be in episodes if she returned in October.


I was thinking about that, too. She had the baby in...Aug? Sept? She was 8 mos pregnant in "Tea Leaves" which I understand was the first one filmed. When did they start shooting? Last July? So if they do one ep every 8 days or so (according to JH), then we should be getting close to the return of JJ. The burning question is, did they write her in much this season or did they just spend all their time on Megadon?

#909

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:55 AM

She had the baby in...Aug? Sept?

Sept. 13. See two posts above yours. ;-)

I believe it was Jan 17th.

Thanks, SueB. So if Jones returned to the set around mid-October, she certainly could be a bigger presence in the remaining episodes.

#910

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 12:18 PM

I think we are going to see her in Lady Lazarus. I don't know why I think this. The timing, perhaps, based on my guess of when they filmed it. She wasn't in the previews, but it would be just like MW to have her figure prominently in an episode and not put it in the previews. But mostly, I think it's just hopeful wishing...that Betty has a big presence and the result of that would be to diminish the Megadon screen time.

#911

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 12:44 AM

I like both Betty and Megan, though I do think Megan is a better match for Don. I am looking forward to seeing more of Betty, and what they do with her situation. I don't think she's that into her marriage with Henry ("be careful what you wish for.") and needs some sort of outside interest. Maybe it's bc they both have such outwardly bland personas (although Betty isn't really that bland at all, or maybe it took Don driving her crazy with all his crap to bring out the other facets, something she doesn't have to worry about with Henry) that I don't think Betty and Henry are very interesting to watch together onscreen. (Aside from the fact that they just don't get very interesting material as a pair anyway.)

Edited by newyawk, May 5, 2012 @ 12:46 AM.


#912

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 12:49 AM

I like both Betty and Megan, though I do think Megan is a better match for Don.


I honestly think a wood-chipper would be the best soul-mate for Don... but maybe that's my dislike of him talking!

I would love to see more of Betty! Specifically, I'd like to see more of her life as a political wife, since I'm fascinated by the stories that could result from having her-- a divorced woman with three kids who married Henry immediately after her first marriage dissolved! after going with him to Reno! le gasp!-- have to deal with all the cattiness and hyper-criticism that could be dished out by any number of political consultants. Politics is moving away from reporting on JFK (ie. hide all the sins behind the velvet curtain!) to deal with Tricky Dick (expose everything and trust no-one), so I think her and Henry's decidedly unconventional courtship would offer a lot of story possiblities.

#913

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 4:58 AM

I miss Betty. Her barely concealed anger, her discontentment and her icy glares are the perfect antidote to Megan's Sueishness.

#914

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 12:28 AM

Awww, Betty... I'm so glad she came back for this week's episode! I don't care how much of a bitch she is, I've always felt for her. She's such an amazingly human person that no matter how awful she can be, I always end up sympathizing, even when I feel most appalled by her. And I'm glad the writers are dialing back her bitchiness this season too... In season 4, they all but had her twirl her mustache as she tied her kids to the rail-road tracks. I'm glad she's being written as a nuanced character again, and that she's coming to grips with some parts of her life, even while she remains thwarted by others.

And am I alone in thinking those Weight Watchers scenes were kind of adorable? Betty's in therapy again, sort of! And this time, given that her new husband isn't spying on her, it seems to be helping her out! In fact, it's amazing how much social support she seems to have this year, compared to how isolated she was in the last few seasons. Her entire Weight Watchers group seems to be a support for her, she found friends in that dark-haired woman this episode and in her cancer-stricken friend in Tea Leaves, she's formed a healthier bond with Henry as of late, and she's being far more loving and attentive with her children than she was previously. Maybe she's not ever going to be as happy as she might wish... but she's in a better place now than she was in, say, seasons 1 to 4. Maybe this is as content as Betty will get, and maybe she'll eventually find some sort of peace in this state.

That said, I found it eye-rollingly annoying that Betty's become yet another character that's envious of oh-so-wonderful Megan. In fact, I wouldn't have even minded if Betty was jealous of Don treating Megan with far more care and tenderness than he ever treated her-- hell, I sympathize fully with her in that regard, even though Betty acted in a very immature way about the Anna business. But having Betty ogle Megan's torso and then clearly over-eat in reaction to that? Gross, and I hate the sudden desire the writers have to show Megan as being so amazing that every woman she meets admires and envies her to some degree. (With other victims being Peggy (about Megan's natural creative talent), Joan (about Megan's ability to "play the game" and land both the devoted husband and career), and even Megan's actress friend, who wishes she had Megan's financial security.)

Did we really need to resort to more fat jokes to show that Betty's feeling insecure about her old husband still, despite everything?

#915

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 7:31 AM

I'm with you. My heart went out to Betty when she read that love note from Don to Megan. All she ever wanted from Don was to be part of his life and instead, he walled her off, cheated on her, demeaned her and treated her worse that the crap under his shoe from the dirty streets of NYC. So what, BFD..he now gets what he did wrong and is trying to correct that with Megan. I'd give him a lot more points if he would actually ADMIT to Betty what his part was in their marriage mess. He's admitted it to Roger, Megan and even Sally. WHEN has he ever admitted it to Betty?

Betty's become a stress eater and even though that whipped cream scene was cringe-worthy, she actually made a pretty good decision given her new WW skills. She chose something that could fill her up, but that she could get mostly rid by just spitting it down the sink. Glad to see her having some success with WW. She needs to get her mojo back, too. I was sad that she was made up to look so old and frumpy though. Even given that she's obviously lost some weight but is still chubby..she's nowhere near as fat as before. Joan is not a small woman, yet they find things to put her in that make her look fabulous. Betty seems out of the PLUS sizes now. Can't they find some fashion for her that wouldn't make her look like a cow put out to pasture past its prime?

#916

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 8:25 AM

I'm with you. My heart went out to Betty when she read that love note from Don to Megan. All she ever wanted from Don was to be part of his life and instead, he walled her off, cheated on her, demeaned her and treated her worse that the crap under his shoe from the dirty streets of NYC. So what, BFD..he now gets what he did wrong and is trying to correct that with Megan. I'd give him a lot more points if he would actually ADMIT to Betty what his part was in their marriage mess. He's admitted it to Roger, Megan and even Sally. WHEN has he ever admitted it to Betty?


I have thought the same thing myself. He's trying not to make the same mistakes with Megan and in doing so he's starting to acknowledge that he played a role in Betty's unhappiness. An important next step would be for him to fully walk in Betty's shoes and apologize to her for his role in their marriage.

#917

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 9:11 AM

Sometimes I really don't know what Weiner is trying to tell us with Betty. There was last season's final scene with Betty and Don when she sort of offered herself to him. I get it when it's framed like - this is a woman who will never be satisfied or happy, but when Weiner has talked about it my takeaway is he thinks it gave Don satisfaction that leaving him didn't work out for Betty as well as she thought - sort of a smug feel. Are we really supposed to think she shouldn't have left him? Same with "backed the wrong horse." Is that a comment on Betty never being satisfied? Are we supposed to believe if she had been able to be satisfied she wouldn't have left Don despite his cheating and lying and controlling?

I think he was a near-evil husband with his gaslighting and everything else. I can't imagine any circumstances under which a wife ought to have backed him, stayed with him - a naturally happy woman or a naturally dissatisfied one.

#918

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 9:21 AM

Are we supposed to believe if she had been able to be satisfied she wouldn't have left Don despite his cheating and lying and controlling?


I'm not sure what he wants us to feel. Maybe that her coldness led Don to start cheating, which IMO is bullshit.

On the DVD commentary for "Shoot" MW talks about how if Betty really wanted to go back to modeling she could, which I don't buy. The pressures she would have faced from her friends, Don, society in general would have been huge. She has a Bachelor's degree in anthropology. She doesn't have a lot of options. Her mother, who had evidently done drafting at one point groomed Betty to be a wife and mother. Going against all of that at that time and point would have been really really hard. MW didn't go into all that, but the way he spoke made me think that he was dismissive of those kinds of concerns.

Betty's become a stress eater and even though that whipped cream scene was cringe-worthy, she actually made a pretty good decision given her new WW skills. She chose something that could fill her up, but that she could get mostly rid by just spitting it down the sink.


That kind of behavior is not healthy. It's often indicative of an eating disorder. The way I read the scene was that she went for the whipped cream, but regained control and spit it out. I hope that's correct.

#919

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 9:51 AM

That kind of behavior is not healthy. It's often indicative of an eating disorder. The way I read the scene was that she went for the whipped cream, but regained control and spit it out. I hope that's correct.


A friend of mine who's an old school feminist (and a true Bryn Mawr grad) likes to point out that magazines traditionally geared to women such as Woman's Day, Family Circle, etc. usually feature a picture of a big ole cake or other delicious dessert as well as a blurb for a diet on the cover. You're supposed to put the big gooey cake on the table but deny your own hunger again and again.

MW didn't go into all that, but the way he spoke made me think that he was dismissive of those kinds of concerns.


MW has made it clear (IMO) that we are not supposed to like Betty much. Although I think Betty clearly got a raw deal as Don's first (real) wife, I always had the feeling that the idea of freedom and choices scared her a bit and that she retreated into marriage for a sense of safety and security. She just picked the worst possible husband for that. I get annoyed at times at the way Betty is portrayed, but I think this is just baked into her character as written and reflects some of MW's limitations.

#920

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 10:01 AM

I have thought the same thing myself. He's trying not to make the same mistakes with Megan and in doing so he's starting to acknowledge that he played a role in Betty's unhappiness. An important next step would be for him to fully walk in Betty's shoes and apologize to her for his role in their marriage.


I don't see it happening, unfortunately. And though we the viewers know how heartbroken Don was when Betty firmly said she was divorcing him and how depressed he was through S4, Betty does not know any of this. All she knows is he resisted the divorce, then capitulated and said he wouldn't fight her. He moves into the city; they do the trading-off-kids thing. And within a year, Don meets someone, falls in love and marries her. And to pour salt in the wound, he apparently is the perfect husband to this much younger woman.

I don't blame Betty for feeling insecure, threatened, jealous, etc. I think she still loves Don and is heartbroken that the marriage didn't work. And given the mindset of that time period, I think she blames herself for Don's bad behavior and thinks Megan is a better woman for keeping Don from straying and treating her poorly. We the viewers know that's not the case, but Betty the character, doesn't. If you take her actions from last night's episode with all of that in mind, what she did re: Anna Draper makes perfect sense.

#921

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 1:00 PM

I don't see it happening, unfortunately. And though we the viewers know how heartbroken Don was when Betty firmly said she was divorcing him and how depressed he was through S4, Betty does not know any of this.

I saw his heartbreak as pointless. My thought process was - did you think this wouldn't happen? If you value it keep your dick in your pants, don't be a bitch, don't disappear when you want, if you're gonna fuck don't fuck people Betty knows, especially not people you and she socialize with or Sally's schoolteacher whom you and Betty met when Betty was pregnant, spend more time at home and don't take the little time you do have for home away for reasons of strengthening your relationship with your latest mistress, and don't demean your wife when she tries to wear a freaking bikini. And show some guilt when she confronts you.

I never got his heartbreak because he was never involved at home. Maybe losing the marriage hurt his self-image or whatever but his response was pretty much all narcissism, I never saw it as heartbreak or anything that would even give Betty satisfaction. She knows he went on a drinking binge - remember when he was supposed to take the kids so she and Henry could go to that brunch but he was too drunk to know it was Sunday?

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, May 14, 2012 @ 1:01 PM.


#922

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 1:23 PM

Yeah, I don't think Don's heart-break was worth much, and I don't think Betty should somehow feel consoled by it either. When they got divorced, he didn't seem to miss Betty the Actual Woman so much as he missed Betty the Showpiece and Betty the Home-maker Who's Always Waiting With a Pot Roast on the Table and Betty the Caretaker of His Children. Even in this episode, he demeaned her in front of Sally-- and while that's understandable, given how childishly he acted, it's part of a pattern where Don gets upset at Betty for not living up to his ideals and inevitably lashes out at her.

I don't blame Betty for being upset that he's clearly trying with Megan in ways that he never tried with her, or gave up trying sometime into their marriage. Her frustration and anger might be misjudged and ultimately harmful to herself most of all-- but it strikes me as all too possible for anyone in her situation to feel. The writers seem to be baiting us into mocking Betty this episode-- she's practically compared to toxic smog, of all things, made into the Wicked Stepmother to Megan's pretty, innocent little Princess-- but I think she's as wonderfully and terribly human a character as can be found in this show. She might embody some of our worst and most childish impulses toward revenge in this episode, but I only found her more sympathetic in the long-run.

Edited by Mariagonerlj, May 14, 2012 @ 1:27 PM.


#923

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 1:56 PM

I saw his heartbreak as pointless.


I never got his heartbreak because he was never involved at home.


Yeah, I don't think Don's heart-break was worth much


I don't disagree with any of this. I was trying to point out what I thought was Betty's point of view...that she didn't see Don as we did, sitting in that chair after she told him she was leaving, depressed in S4, etc. All she sees is the much younger, hot wife who for some reason is treated the way Betty wished she had been treated by a man with whom she's still in love.

#924

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 4:01 PM

the way Betty wished she had been treated by a man with whom she's still in love.

I'm not so sure she's still in love with Don. I think she is angry that he has not suffered the way she thinks he should have.

If you value it keep your dick in your pants, don't be a bitch, don't disappear when you want, if you're gonna fuck don't fuck people Betty knows, especially not people you and she socialize with or Sally's schoolteacher whom you and Betty met when Betty was pregnant, spend more time at home and don't take the little time you do have for home away for reasons of strengthening your relationship with your latest mistress, and don't demean your wife when she tries to wear a freaking bikini. And show some guilt when she confronts you.

I think this is pretty much the playbook Don followed from the end of S2 when Betty took him back (and he admitted "I was not respectful to you" and "without you, I'll be alone forever") until their return from Rome, but it wasn't enough.

#925

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 6:25 PM

What lies at Betty's core is RAGE. I think that is why I continue to be delighted to see her and want her to stay and grow.

She has good reason to be full of rage.

I can't help but find it endearing that she takes it out on people, especially Sally, in such pitiful ways.

Several seasons back she was seen reading Betty Friedan's book...I hope she comes upon it again and re-reads it.

#926

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 6:31 PM

A friend of mine who's an old school feminist (and a true Bryn Mawr grad) likes to point out that magazines traditionally geared to women such as Woman's Day, Family Circle, etc. usually feature a picture of a big ole cake or other delicious dessert as well as a blurb for a diet on the cover. You're supposed to put the big gooey cake on the table but deny your own hunger again and again.


What about daytime TV? It's one cooking segment after another interspersed with diet advice and, of course,"The Revolution".

#927

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 7:27 PM

Several seasons back she was seen reading Betty Friedan's book...

I have no recollection of this. Any idea which episode?

#928

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 7:44 PM

Several seasons back she was seen reading Betty Friedan's book...


I have no recollection of this. Any idea which episode?


Hmm. Google is not confirming what I was certain I remembered. I thought it was around the time she started playing with Henry Francis, and as I remembered (or imagined it) she had no response, at all, to it.

Edited by theponderer, May 14, 2012 @ 7:45 PM.


#929

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 7:55 PM

"Without you, I'll be alone forever" is an awfully self-referential consequence for someone alluding to the damage he's doing to someone else. And even then it was an eye roller. I doubt Don believed it. Did he want to ruin the All-American family image he had with Betty? Of course not. Did he really think if he didn't have Betty, he'd find no substitute? He knew better, even then. IMO that was pity wanking, by Weiner and of course since he writes Don, by Don.

#930

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 8:18 PM

Sometimes I really don't know what Weiner is trying to tell us with Betty. There was last season's final scene with Betty and Don when she sort of offered herself to him. I get it when it's framed like - this is a woman who will never be satisfied or happy, but when Weiner has talked about it my takeaway is he thinks it gave Don satisfaction that leaving him didn't work out for Betty as well as she thought - sort of a smug feel. Are we really supposed to think she shouldn't have left him? Same with "backed the wrong horse." Is that a comment on Betty never being satisfied? Are we supposed to believe if she had been able to be satisfied she wouldn't have left Don despite his cheating and lying and controlling?


I don't like it, but I know what he's trying to tell us: that the marriage did not end because of cheating, gaslighting, absenteeism, any of Don's incidental transgressions, or even the identity deception in and of itself -- it ended because Betty learned that Don was really Dick Whitman, and she could love the Don Draper facade but not the reality of Dick Whitman. Exhibit A: The "Main Line brat" fight they have in the S3 finale, the one interrupted by the baby crying. Essentially "You think I'm not good enough for you"/"THAT'S RIGHT!" Exhibit B: The dinner scene with Anna in S4, when Don sadly reflects that from the moment Betty looked at him and knew who he really was, she couldn't love him (the show doesn't present this as his warped perception; it seems to endorse it). And the smoking gun: Weiner says as much in his commentary for "Shut The Door, Have A Seat." A paraphrase: "But you have to wonder: Why couldn't she love him?" His authorial sympathies are not in doubt at all. (I think he makes this comment during the final Betty/Don phone scene, when SCDP has set up shop in the hotel, and Don goes into the bedroom to talk privately.)

Edited by Birdhee, May 14, 2012 @ 8:24 PM.