Jump to content

Betty Draper Francis: Grace Kelly With a Twist


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

1213 replies to this topic

#871

Ashes of Roses

Ashes of Roses

    Video Archivist

Posted Sep 17, 2011 @ 10:18 AM

January gave birth this week: it's a boy, named Xander Dane.

#872

HawtMesss

HawtMesss

    Video Archivist

Posted Sep 17, 2011 @ 9:53 PM

Congratulations to January

#873

Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

    Stalker

  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Midwest US

Posted Sep 18, 2011 @ 8:00 AM

Not crazy about the name Xander but I guess you can't expect someone called January to go for Paul or Brad or even Connor. :-)

Congrats to Ms. Jones. I'll bet Xander is gorgeous, and his momma sounds thrilled with this new role.

#874

Wilhelmina

Wilhelmina

    Channel Surfer

Posted Oct 1, 2011 @ 7:49 PM

I just finished season four on Netflix, and I have a few things to say about Betty.

First of all, I find her character fascinating because she is an odd blend of ice queen and pampered brat. She thinks she is entitled to a fresh start with everything done her way all because her marriage to Don was unhappy. At the same time, her way of getting what she wants is to tell people to fix whatever is wrong for her, or to "get over it." I've lost track of the number of times she's said the former to Henry/Don, and the latter to Sally. Henry's mother was right when she said she was a silly woman; her method is to stomp her feet and throw a fit. We'll see how long Henry puts up with that kind of behavior.

Despite not liking her character at all, I find myself glued to the screen whenever Betty is on. The cool thing about this show is that none of the characters are without faults, so even when I feel like strangling them (and I have felt that way about every one of them, excluding maybe Peggy), I keep watching because they are very real. Betty is certainly flawed, but I have a feeling there were plenty of beautiful, detached housewives just like her in the 60's, not knowing who they are or what they really want. Having been born at a time after feminism I may not understand Betty, but I have an odd sort of sympathy for her.

#875

HawtMesss

HawtMesss

    Video Archivist

Posted Nov 11, 2011 @ 8:14 PM

Her get over it it is the same reaction she's gotten from everyone whenever she herself was going through a hard time.

It started with Mona in the ladies room S1 E2. When her hand started to shake, Mona didn't react at all even if I recall.

#876

HickoryColt

HickoryColt

    Stalker

Posted Jan 8, 2012 @ 2:11 PM

I watched half of season 4 in one sitting the other night. Seeing it back to back like that sure paints an even more unflattering picture of Betty as a mom. Just a horrible mother.

I think it would be interesting to see where in the Dick/Don transition she met her first husband. We saw in season 4 how Dick/Don met Roger. He was MUCH closer to the Dick persona at that time, even though he had changed his name. Don tends to view himself as having this clean break from one person to another once he changed his name, but clearly that was not it based on the show. We have seen him twice as Don Draper after he changed from Dick Whitman as a salesman, once when he met the real Don's wife and the other when he meets Roger. Clearly he was still more like Dick Whitman at that time rather than Don Draper, in personality. He was nice, eager to please, not at all with the hard edge he seems to have later developed.

I would be curious to know what he was like when he and Betty met. He believes he had to be more like Don to ever have her. When his secret is relieved and later when talking with the real Ms. Draper, he clearly thinks Dick would have never got Betty to marry him. I wonder if thats really true, though. I wonder if he was more Dick or Don when he met Betty and what she really saw in him to want to be with him. Did she see a more driven Don type figure that was powerful and would provide for her all her material needs OR did she see more Dick and see a weak man she felt she could manipulate and mold to what she wanted? Was there a huge transition from Dick to Don during their marriage?

I hope in season 5 they explore this more so we know if Dick/Don perception of why he was able to win over Betty in the first place is correct

#877

SueB

SueB

    Stalker

Posted Jan 8, 2012 @ 10:01 PM

I watched half of season 4 in one sitting the other night. Seeing it back to back like that sure paints an even more unflattering picture of Betty as a mom. Just a horrible mother.


Indeed. I really want some reason to like Betty in S5.

#878

Estick

Estick

    Channel Surfer

Posted Feb 15, 2012 @ 9:58 PM

I think it would be interesting to see where in the Dick/Don transition she met her first husband. We saw in season 4 how Dick/Don met Roger. He was MUCH closer to the Dick persona at that time, even though he had changed his name. Don tends to view himself as having this clean break from one person to another once he changed his name, but clearly that was not it based on the show. We have seen him twice as Don Draper after he changed from Dick Whitman as a salesman, once when he met the real Don's wife and the other when he meets Roger. Clearly he was still more like Dick Whitman at that time rather than Don Draper, in personality. He was nice, eager to please, not at all with the hard edge he seems to have later developed.


I think Dick/Don finally started taking on the Don Draper persona when he started working at SC. In the ep Waldorf Stories, when Roger is remembering back to when he first met Don, we see the smiling fur salesman Don in the building lobby, trying to land a job at SC. When they are having a martini lunch, Don tells Roger, "I don't think that's how that goes". This to me is the sure of himself Don Draper I know.

What I would like to know, is how much he acted like Don Draper when he first met Betty? When we see him with Anna Draper, we always saw him smiling. By his own admission, Anna was the only person he could truly be himself around.

I know a lot of people have been complaining that Betty got too much screen time this season. I too felt this way. However I think they needed to show Betty being the horrible mother she is, in order to show all the problems Sally has been having. Another poster pointed this out earlier too. They couldn't just show Sally taking the train to SCDP unless we knew how mean her mother has been to her. Also Betty firing Carla really set into motion Don taking Megan to California, and the proposal that followed.

#879

Beautiful Leah

Beautiful Leah

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 17, 2012 @ 5:35 AM

I know a lot of people have been complaining that Betty got too much screen time this season.


I respectfully disagree. If anything, she got very little of it and mostly from Sally's perspective. I hope that, next season, Betty's story will be told from her p.o.v.
Otoh, I must confess than I am also one of the Negative Nellys who thought Season 3 didn't have enough of any character who weren't the Drapers,so I guess it's hard to find the right balance when you have at least 6 core characters. I guess the best way around this would be to focus more on them and less on new additions like Connie Hilton or Don's various women (and I say this as someone who really liked Faye).

Edited by Beautiful Leah, Feb 17, 2012 @ 5:53 AM.


#880

HickoryColt

HickoryColt

    Stalker

Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 12:18 AM

What I would like to know, is how much he acted like Don Draper when he first met Betty? When we see him with Anna Draper, we always saw him smiling. By his own admission, Anna was the only person he could truly be himself aroundte



This is what I would like to know as well. ANd I think you are right he really started to become Don when he started work at SC.

#881

johnacraft

johnacraft

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

http://www.hollywood...er-x-men-306397

"I spoke with Matt before the season started about what we were going to do, because I had some physical things to work around," she said, referring to her pregnancy. "He came up with a great storyline for me this season. I'm excited for fans to see what Betty does. She's always growing."


Really?

Are we being set up for an overweight Betty to cover up for JJ's pregnancy?

#882

Mariagonerlj

Mariagonerlj

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 11:10 PM

I loved Betty during "Tea Leaves"-- loved her, loved her, loved her. I've been rooting for Betty since season 1, even through her moments of social bizarreness and childishness, and I generally hated the way Season 4 turned her into a horribly villainous character who failed at pretty much everything she went near during the season. But I'm glad Season 5 is (so far!) taking a much more nuanced view of her as a woman who isn't even sure who she is any more now that she's losing her beauty and who has to rethink her fraught relationship with her children when she worries that she'll be dying and leaving them. Three moments that especially touched me during this episode include:

-When she told her friend (and I love that they had someone new interacting with Betty! another woman even!) during tea that she's afraid that when she's dead, her kids will be raised by Don's ex-wife and they'll never hear another kind word about her again. I can imagine that's been a long-running fear of Betty's, now that her kids have a more "fun" mother to be with.

-When she has her dream about being dead and being unable to speak with her children or family, and said sorry to dream-Sally as she went past. I love the idea that she's re-evaluating her relationship with Sally in particular, considering how fraught it's been in the past.

-When she's sitting with her family on her lawn, watching Sally and Bobby play with sparklers, and kisses Gene on his head. I can practically see Betty's thoughts about what she could lose forming above her head.

I know Betty might never be happy-- she's still plenty childish in this episode, and those digs at her mother-in-law's weight were cruel, if perhaps well-earned-- but I do like the sense that she's evolving, not just stuck being the Wicked Witch of Suburbia. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of her this season, which is a nice change from dreading how they'd make her a more and more horrible creature as time went on in season 4!

#883

Riff Randell

Riff Randell

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 12:06 AM

I love Betty. She's always been one of my favorite characters.

I'm worried that she was lying when she told Henry the tumor was benign. I may need to re-watch the episode to get a second look at her expression during the phone call, but I got the impression that she wasn't being completely honest and the "I'm just fat" comment was her trying to change the subject. It may also be why she didn't call Don after.

It would really be a weak way out for the writers to just kill her off, but after the way she was treated in Season Four, I wouldn't be surprised.

#884

WaltzinSpringTm

WaltzinSpringTm

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 12:26 PM

I'm probably one of the few who doesn't think Betty is a monster mother to Sally. I think she loves Sally, is immature herself, but has been fairly on point for her era, not a monster. Weiner wants some sophisticated spirit guide interpretation for Glen but is judging Betty on contemporary friend parent standards. I think she and Sally are more alike than we're told - both like to feel in control, both like to know what they're doing, and I think there's a connection there between them, even amidst the conflict.

I really loved Betty in this episode and I thought JJ's acting was stellar.

#885

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 3:14 PM

I think she and Sally are more alike than we're told - both like to feel in control, both like to know what they're doing, and I think there's a connection there between them, even amidst the conflict.


I've always thought that regarding baseline personalities Betty and Sally are alike and Don and Bobby are alike. Betty and Sally are more sensitive and highly strung (Sally reaction to the divorce) while Don and Bobby are good at adapting and being more passive (or sneaky).

I loved Betty in this ep. I really hope she goes through some interesting developments this year. I felt like her cancer scare (which I assume was just a scare) was a great way to get her to start thinking, be unable to just stay with things the way they were. But right now she's so lost without any of the ways Don had to fix himself.

This Betty reminded me of the one who went up to Glen in the parking lot and said she had no one to talk to. I don't think at this point she's even able to articulate what she wants or how she feels, which is why the show so often goes to dream imagery for her. "If, if, if..." vs. "This is what happens when you speak up" and "You're a housecat. You're very important with nothing to do." And as usual Betty's instinctual response (after reaching out for even fake reassurance from Don) is to look for a child-friend, this time Sally. Only Sally's not having it.

#886

GreekGeek

GreekGeek

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 6:06 AM

I'm interested in the parallels between Betty and Grace Kelly, especially in view of "Tea Leaves." Kelly also got to live what seemed like a fairy tale--marriage to a prince--and was absolutely miserable in it. Her prince was much older, like Henry, and took her to live in a home that might have been a palace but was very behind the times in terms of modern conveniences. Kelly missed her film career, just as Betty missed modeling, but there was no way to go back. Kelly also ended up putting on some weight and developing a drinking problem (admittedly, we haven't seen the latter with Betty, but I think a "diet pill addiction" story line is coming), and she had to cope with rebellious children as well.

#887

rogaine2233

rogaine2233

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 6:49 AM

Grace Kelly was also from Philadelphia like Betty...specifically the monied Main Line. Like Betty.

#888

BBDi

BBDi

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 7:01 AM

Which Main Line town is Betty from? Did they ever say?

#889

Jenn

Jenn

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 4:10 PM

I'm probably one of the few who doesn't think Betty is a monster mother to Sally. I think she loves Sally, is immature herself, but has been fairly on point for her era, not a monster. Weiner wants some sophisticated spirit guide interpretation for Glen but is judging Betty on contemporary friend parent standards. I think she and Sally are more alike than we're told - both like to feel in control, both like to know what they're doing, and I think there's a connection there between them, even amidst the conflict.


Me too! I think there is a tendency to judge Betty and Don by modern standards, but taken in the context of the era Don's lenient, no-discipline style sinply means that Betty has had to step up and be the disciplinarian when necessary.

Betty and Sally certainly seemed to be less at loggerheads here than previously.

Anyway - I'm pleased to see Betty back - she's never boring.

#890

cmb92191

cmb92191

    Just Tuned In

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 6:38 PM

I don't believe that that they ever stated which Main Line town Betty lived in. She did go to Bryn Mawr, so she could have conceivably lived there. If I had to guess, I would say the Hofstradts lived in Radnor, Villanova, Wayne or conceivably Devon. (I lived in one of those towns- quite a few Betty Hoftstadts lived there even in the late 90's to early 2000s). I don't see the Hoftstadts living in say Ardmore, Lower Marion or Paoli. Some would say Ardmore, Lower Merion and Paoli are not Main Line, but I digress.

If I had to guess I would say Radnor or Villanova. My first bet would be for Villanova though. If she ever mentions a finishing school, grammar school or day school it could be determined easily!

#891

quaintirene

quaintirene

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

I still don't think she's heading for the standard feminism road--that seems a bit wrong for her, but I love the idea of her dealing with feeling like she's adrift, getting further from shore, despite not actually having cancer.


But isn't that exactly who Betty Friedan was describing in the chapter called The Problem That Has No Name in The Feminine Mystique? A bright, well-educated woman who has time on her hands and nothing at all to do with it except make decisions on what temperature she should use in the washing machine rinse cycle. I've slagged off Wiener for this season's version of Betty. But he will be completely redeemed if she reads that book and gets Mad As Hell.

#892

Sister Magpie

Sister Magpie

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 8:09 PM

Oh yes, it is completely who BF was talking about afaik. But to me it still seems wrong for Betty herself. She's just always seemed like part of what makes her Betty is that she's not really able to do that.

I could be wrong, of course. Maybe he really is setting her up to live that narrative since she's in the exact situation it's talking about, but to me it seems like part of her tragedy is that it somehow wouldn't be that clear for Betty. I mean, clearly a lot of what that book talked about (afaik--I haven't actually ever read it) we've seen with Betty, the housecat who's "very important but has nothing to do."

#893

Lollia Pollina

Lollia Pollina

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

I think Betty is in a bit of a pickle here. She's not content being a political housewife - the political obligations are as tedious to her as the housewifery. She's never worked, and there's a fair amount of tedium involved in work. Would Betty still stick around when the job got boring and the novelty faded, since she has no financial incentive to put up with boredom and with people telling her what to do? I doubt she would actually be any happier in the kind of job she is qualified to do, since she has no work experience, and she'd have to start at the bottom. Of course, she could use Henry's pull to get a better position - but we've already seen how much resentment that causes with Megan's fairly minor leap from secretary to junior copywriter.

Not coming from the privileged classes, I find it difficult to sympathize with them (male or female) and think their existential angst is over-represented rather than under-represented on television.

#894

taipai

taipai

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 5:35 PM

Maybe it's not a coincidence that MW named Betty what he did. Foreshadowing that she will follow the path suggested in the Feminine Mystique.

#895

Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

    Stalker

  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Midwest US

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 6:26 PM

I could have sworn I read Matt Weiner saying that Betty is not going to have some kind of feminist awakening -- that this wouldn't be in keeping with the character -- but I can't find anything to back that up online at the moment...

#896

JudyObscure

JudyObscure

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Female

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:49 PM

I'm wondering what Betty's going to do to her mother-in-law, after coming home to a Seconal dosed Sally passed out under the sofa, stuffed full of Bugles and nurse-murder news. Nobody abuses Betty's kids but Betty! Let's not forget the pigeon shooting after the neighbor threatened Molly. Better watch your back, Pauline, it's not Richard Speck you need to worry about!

#897

newyawk

newyawk

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 6:36 AM

The whole timeline of Betty falling for Henry was weird and forced. They just really came off the trip to Rome where Betty had been shown prior to have resolved herself to settling back into her marriage and it seemed fairly amicable again. During and after the Rome trip, she and Don appeared to have re-bonded to an extent. Prior to the Rome trip, there was really nothing solid shown to depict Betty as being particularly drawn to Henry, other than a curiosity about something new and different.

Then with Wee Small Hours, the episode immediately following the Rome trip, she is suddenly infuriated and jealous enough over Henry not showing up to the fundraiser to drive all the way up to his office to throw a fit, "I wanted you there, bla bla bla". There never seemed to be any real build up on her part to her wanting to be with Henry, This is one of the rare instances of something on this show that I see as manufactured and unsubstantiated. I guess it is pretty much like Don and Megan's marriage..two impulsive relationships.

#898

rogaine2233

rogaine2233

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 7:07 AM

Taking my comments on this to the Don and Betty thread....

#899

taipai

taipai

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:32 PM

I know Weiner said Betty wouldn't be around much because of biological realities affected January Jones, but does any one know when she will show up again?

#900

Tafatia

Tafatia

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 11:17 PM

I miss her fat ass so much! I almost burst into tears when Don ordered the kids to watch TV before following Megan to see what was up with Emile and Marie's arguing. Don just could not pull off that command with the same aplomb as Betty - heck I don't even think he gave either of the animales a shove.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 30, 2012 @ 11:20 PM.