1135 replies to this topic

[needsleep05]

Are we ever going to learn what was going on with her hands?

Edited by TWoP Mars, May 4, 2012 @ 3:37 PM.

[unclewiggly]

January Jones looks absolutely Grace-Kelly perfect, but I have to say, her near-catatonic affect is wearing thin -- even if it could be argued that it's somewhat character appropriate. I was convinced during her first several episodes that we were going to catch her throwing Valiums back with her scotch. I suppose that's still not out of the realm of possibility...

[roseyrose]

January Jones looks absolutely Grace-Kelly perfect, but I have to say, her near-catatonic affect is wearing thin -- even if it could be argued that it's somewhat character appropriate.

I do think it's character appropriate, and I like Jones' performance is spot on. Betty was most likely brought up to be passive around men. But she's made her feelings clear a couple of times - when Don disappeared from the birthday party, and this week when Don blamed her for Roger making a pass at her.

So there's a lot of stuff simmering under that passive surface. She's becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the life she thought she wanted. Her mother died very recently, and her husband doesn't want her to talk about it. Her therapist thinks she has the mentality of a little girl. The only real life support she gets is from her pregnant friend (Francine?), and I doubt she fully understands how Betty is feeling. Betty's terribly isolated, and I don't think even she understands how and what she's feeling.

With all the great female characters on Mad Men, I'm most interested in Betty. I don't think she's the smartest, and she's definitely not the most savvy. Maybe it's because she comes off as a cypher right now that I most want to see what path she takes.

[stillshimpy]

I do think it's character appropriate, and I like Jones' performance is spot on. Betty was most likely brought up to be passive around men. But she's made her feelings clear a couple of times - when Don disappeared from the birthday party, and this week when Don blamed her for Roger making a pass at her. -roseyrose

I think you're right, a lot of Betty's struggle has to do with trying to live up to how she was raised to be. I think it's becoming more difficult for her because with the loss of her mother, she doesn't have the support she used to in maintaining that well bred, always poised, never rattled thing. It is sad though that the very woman she misses so much, is also the person that helped instill beliefs in Betty like being primarily valuable because of how she looks. It isn't even her mother's fault though, I'm sure it had to do with societal norms.

I've been almost surprised by how much I like Betty's character. Even though she does go on a bit about her looks, it is so easy to understand, she's so afraid of what will happen if her beauty fades. Besides, January Jones is so very pretty, it isn't as if I ever disagree with Betty when she talks about being pretty, the lady is very pretty! She's just also so unhappy, and surrounded by people that she can't really talk to openly. I kind of want to give her a hug and tell her that there's more to her than her gorgeous face, while telling her it will all be okay, and slipping her the number of a good divorce lawyer because as fascinating as Don is to me, he's a rotten husband.

Edited by stillshimpy, Sep 1, 2007 @ 12:28 PM.

[roseyrose]

I kind of want to give her a hug and tell her that there's more to her than her gorgeous face, while telling her it will all be okay, and slipping her the number of a good divorce lawyer because as fascinating as Don is to me, he's a rotten husband.

That woman needs a hug. And it's not because I pity her. It's just that history has made it pretty clear that lots of women were in the same situation Betty is in, and it's a terrible way to live.

I think Don actually really likes Betty. He seems to have some kind of affection for her, even if he doesn't love her. I just don't think he's capable of giving her any more than what he gives her, which isn't much. As long as she is married to him and lives in his shadow, she'll never really be happy. Her only other solution would be to stay married but separate herself emotionally from him and build her own life. But I'm not sure that's what she wants.
I don't think she needs someone to coddle her. She's most likely had enough of that in her life; I do think she needs someone who truly loves her, and appreciates what she is and what she can be.

[stillife]

I think January Jones is doing a good job portraying Betty. It's a thin line, acting-wise, portraying a character with little or no insight into herself. Betty has shallow values; everything is surface. If it looks pretty, it must be good. Those values are beginning to cause her a lot of pain, which she doesn't understand yet, and I think she's going to have an interesting journey.

I feel sorry for Betty. Even by suburban 1960's housewife standards, she's wound really tight, as we saw through Francine's reaction to the supermarket face-slapping incident. Francine seems to be Betty's closest friend, yet even she views Betty as a suburban goddess on a pedestal, superficially perfect in every way. I'm interested in learning more about Betty's relationship with her mother, because it seems to me that her reaction goes beyond grieving. Was her mother the only person that she believed truly knew her? Or (perhaps more likely) was her mother her role model in her quest to become the perfect wife and mother? And now, without her mother, she feels the ground shifting beneath her?

One of the things I love about this show is that all of the characters are multi-layered and each of them is trapped in some way. There's so much emotion simmering beneath the surface, just waiting to erupt. I get really annoyed when I hear people (like my husband) complain that Mad Men is not dramatically interesting because "nothing much happens". I never know what to expect when I tune in, and that's a good thing.

[lnmop]

I was convinced during her first several episodes that we were going to catch her throwing Valiums back with her scotch. I suppose that's still not out of the realm of possibility...

I think that's perfectly plausible. Right now, the Betty we see is putting everyone else first. Taking care of a neighbor's kids on short notice so she can work on the JFK campaign, eating salad because Don told her at the last minute that Roger would be joining them for dinner, sitting home alone nights while Don is out entertaining "clients" (read: other women), etc. I would guess that she'll either get a scrip for Valium from her shrink, who doesn't seem to be doing much other than taking notes and talking to her husband, or she'll have some kind of blow-up which will embarass Don and cause everyone to talk. I think the former scenario is the more likely case.

[unclewiggly]

You know, I'm curious -- is it possible that the doctor is discussing things with Don exclusively? Certainly, any of the times we've seen Betty on the couch, she's doing all of the talking; I don't know if we've seen/heard Doctor Whatshisname speak at all except to Don. Would a doctor have called to give his opinions/diagnoses to his patient's husband (who, after all, is signing the check for each session) rather than to the patient herself?

[Auntie M]

I was convinced during her first several episodes that we were going to catch her throwing Valiums back with her scotch.

I figured Valium would be the next step in her therapy but did some research (ok, Wikipedia) and it wasn't on the market until 1963. Apparently there were some other happy pills on the market at the time however.

I want to gift wrap the woman a copy of The Feminine Mystique and send it to her from 1963.

Edited by Auntie M, Sep 2, 2007 @ 8:31 PM.

[stillshimpy]

Betty. I have to say I don't like January Jones's acting. Perhaps she's supposed to come across as artificial, but I don't think that was necessary. Watching the scene betw her and her pregnant friend, I was struck by how terrific the actress playing the friend was and how odd Jones was. I don't know what the general opinion of her acting is, but she bugs the heck out of me.

As of yesterday, I've seen January Jones in three things Mad Men, Love Actually, Three Burials and I think she's pretty remarkable. In Love Actually she had a part that was little better than a bit part, and yet she made an impression and really surpassed the other two actresses in the scene with equally small parts. The character could have been thoroughly unlikeable (or rather perceived as a skank) but Jones made her pretty adorable and elevated it. Three Burials, she's playing another fairly forgettable character - another bored housewife, but entirely different from Betty and not just because of the difference in the time period. Also, I listened to the Love Actually commentary a while back and whereas the director doesn't appear to know January's name, he did single her out as being brilliant in terms of that exact expression.

The entire reason I brought all that up is that I guess she takes direction extremely well. I think that her emotionally repressed, distant, and troubled Betty could have also easily rounded a corner for me into far too distant to care about. Instead, in this episode, when she slaps Helen and then at first heads to her cart, before abandoning it I thought Jones was a marvel in that moment. The limp slap seemed like the easy part in the scene but I thought JJ really did well with her expression afterwards because it wasn't in the least overt. She had a look of contained panic as she fled which seems like such a contradiction, but JJ managed it. She did the same thing with her tone, and facial expression when Don grabbed her, IMO. Sort of lifting the curtain on Betty just marginally, and showing me more about her character than in all the previous episodes. Like in the moment with Don, she showed that she does have a backbone and isn't completely his doormat. Like she could compete with him in a power struggle far better than I had previously thought.

The three things I've seen her in now, she's managed that each time in a completely different way. Revealing a lot about the character with an expression. I really noticed that in this episode. Betty is almost always under a veneer of manners and it would be really challenging to pull that off without giving into the temptation to show too much of her character in the rare moments when she gets to emote. This is all just my opinion, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how well she's been doing with a character that could have come off as completely flat.

Edited by stillshimpy, Sep 3, 2007 @ 11:09 AM.

[astrokng]

You know, I'm curious -- is it possible that the doctor is discussing things with Don exclusively? Certainly, any of the times we've seen Betty on the couch, she's doing all of the talking; I don't know if we've seen/heard Doctor Whatshisname speak at all except to Don. Would a doctor have called to give his opinions/diagnoses to his patient's husband

I think the therapist is your basic 1960 freudian therapist, who sat behind you and let you do all the talking, except to say, "tell me more about that", which Betty already mentioned that he says. It would be unethical by today's standards for a therapist to talk to husband or anyone else, regardless of who's signing the checks. Can you imagine some teenager seeing a therapist these days and having the therapist call the parents and talk about what their child is saying. Talk about claming up and losing confidence in therapist. IMO, Betty could find out soon that the Don is talking with the therapist and blow up at both of them. Him saying you have mind of child is just him using what the therapist told him.

Check out lyrics to Mother's Little Helper by Rolling Stones for more about prescription drugs for mom.

[Pepper Mostly]

Oh, yeah, by the mid sixties Mother's Little Helper was a cliche.

I think Don actually really likes Betty. He seems to have some kind of affection for her, even if he doesn't love her.

I think, if asked, Don would say he loves his wife. He calls her Bets, or Birdie, and seems genuinely affectionate toward her quite a bit. Their conversation with each other is often easy and playful. ("What's in that freezer I bought you?" "Frozen food"). He brings her breakfast in bed and takes her out to nice dinners in the city. Their scene in the bedroom when they come home drunk and giddy from the awards dinner was really, well, kind of sweet. He's a dog and doesn't deserve her, but I do think he does feel affection for her. Of course, he doesn't really know how to love someone. So poor Betty's the one who suffers.

[roseyrose]

Their scene in the bedroom when they come home drunk and giddy from the awards dinner was really, well, kind of sweet. He's a dog and doesn't deserve her, but I do think he does feel affection for her. Of course, he doesn't really know how to love someone. So poor Betty's the one who suffers.

It was kind of sweet. And you're right, he doesn't deserve her. She needs someone like...well, no one else on the show, that's for sure. She shows some signs that she doesn't put up with all his crap though. I think she chooses her battles very carefully, if only because she doesn't always feel armed enough to fight every lousy thing he does.

I said in the old thread that I could see Betty becoming mostly happy as a housewife, like Kevin's mother in The Wonder Years. But I don't ever picture Don being like Kevin's father, who was a big old crank, but very loving.
I don't ever see Betty becoming a radical feminist (although it could happen), but I would like to see her feeling OK with who she is and the choices she's made.

[unclewiggly]

Not to be heartless (and certainly not in regards to the threatened violence on Don's part), but I think that Betty and Don deserve each other. They're both living in dream-worlds of their own creation, and have gotten trapped in their own suspension of disbelief. Betty needs to wise up. I'm hoping that's the arch the writers have in mind for her.

[unclewiggly]

I find the fact that she's "Betty," instead of "Elizabeth," "Liz," or even "Betts," interesting.

Betty could be her given name -- my own grandmother was Betty, and it wasn't short for Elizabeth. Just Betty.

[KMax]

Betty could be her given name -- my own grandmother was Betty, and it wasn't short for Elizabeth. Just Betty.

Yeah, you're right: could be. Just...usually not. Like, the way "Jack" as a given name, instead of a nickname for John, is really a fairly recent thing.

To me, Betty seems like a girlish name for a woman. And, it sounds frivolous.

[SuzN]

ETA because... wrong thread

To me, Betty seems like a girlish name for a woman. And, it sounds frivolous.

Unlike, say, Brittany or Tiffany?

Edited by SuzN, Sep 5, 2007 @ 12:38 AM.

[tvmovielover]

I guess you have to be a bit older to see Betty as a given name and not a nickname since the given named Bettys I know are 60 and 84. I never thought of either as girlish and think that girlish is not all that there is to Betty Draper. Anyway, in the 50s and 60s, the name Betty was fairly common as both a nickname and a given name. I thought it was chosen as a nice generic name of the period like Don-how many young Dons (other than Trumps) are there today? Yet in the 50s and 60s the name was fairly common.

To me Betty represents what was the ideal for a mom in 1960. Many women thought they must be that kind of wife and mother even to the end of the decade. That ideal was soon to be blown apart by Betty Friedan and others as housewives became dissatisfied with being that kind of doormat. I am still wondering if Betty will represent the women who became rebels and left their housewife role or those who gave in to "mother's little helpers" or whatever and stayed Stepford Wives. Maybe she is just a shallow woman worrying about losing her looks (and husband) but maybe she is something more without the ability to express it yet (and her current shrink is not helping her).

[Pepper Mostly]

My mother in law was named Elizabeth, called Betty. Betty was the common dim for Elizabeth then. I don't see any message in Betty's name, or nickname.

[bratschenspieler]

According to the social security administration, Betty was the #2 name for girls born in 1932. Elizabeth was way down at #17.

Edited by bratschenspieler, Sep 5, 2007 @ 10:36 AM.

[eavj]

I don't see any message in Betty's name, or nickname.

Back in the old thread, someone quoted Weiner (or one of the other show creators) as saying that all the names had significance.

I'm thinking Betty is the blonde bombshell (think Betty Grable) but also sweet (Betty in the "Archie" comics), and, of course, a homemaker (Betty Crocker). And, maybe in a few years, she'll be Betty Friedan.

[dreamy]

And, maybe in a few years, she'll be Betty Friedan.

And if she keeps drinking alone, she might end up at the Betty Ford Clinic a couple of decades later.

Forgive me; I admire Betty Ford quite a bit, but I just couldn't resist.

[Pepper Mostly]

I'm thinking Betty is the blonde bombshell (think Betty Grable) but also sweet (Betty in the "Archie" comics), and, of course, a homemaker (Betty Crocker). And, maybe in a few years, she'll be Betty Friedan.

And if she keeps drinking alone, she might end up at the Betty Ford Clinic a couple of decades later.

HAHAHAHAHA! So true. I agree that the name Betty is emblematic, what I didn't agree with was that the name Betty was somehow frivolous or childish. Once again, in my haste I lack clarity.

Edited by Pepper Mostly, Sep 5, 2007 @ 10:57 AM.

[Keithette]

My mother is also an Elisabeth born in the 30's - Although she goes by Betsy, not Betty. But I think about half of her friends are all named either Betty or Linda. She's often told me that she wished her nickname wasn't so youngish, and that she would have switched over to Elisabeth at some point if Betsy hadn't become so ingrained.

As for Betty Draper, every time she's on screen, I want to pat her on the shoulder and give her a copy of The Feminine Mystique and tell her it will be OK.

Edited by Keithette, Sep 5, 2007 @ 11:06 AM.

[roseyrose]

As for Betty Draper, every time she's on screen, I want to pat her on the shoulder and give her a copy of The Feminine Mystique and tell her it will be OK.

Oh I know. However, she might need to start off more slowly. A little Peg Bracken or Erma Bombeck wouldn't cause as much shock. :) Although Bombeck was pretty revolutionary in her day, using humor to talk about how much suburban life sucked.

Maybe she is just a shallow woman worrying about losing her looks (and husband) but maybe she is something more without the ability to express it yet (and her current shrink is not helping her).

I'm convinced she just can't express how she feels. She probably doesn't even know what words to use. The idea that what she wanted her whole life, what she was raised to believe was her right and her destiny, isn't working for her is probably so foreign she hasn't a clue how to process it right now.

[Jacob's Hair Dye]

I'm thinking Betty is the blonde bombshell (think Betty Grable) but also sweet (Betty in the "Archie" comics), and, of course, a homemaker (Betty Crocker). And, maybe in a few years, she'll be Betty Friedan.

And if she keeps drinking alone, she might end up at the Betty Ford Clinic a couple of decades later.

Hee!

And if she switches the pearls & crinoline for a black ribbon necklace and a strapless dress, she could be Betty Rubble. Although Don is more Fred than Barney.

[sunburst]

Ohh, Betty. get down with your rifle-bearing self!

[DarkVamp70]

Go ahead Betty! I finally like ya!

[annew1011]

I think this thread should be re-titled Betty Draper:Grace Kelly with a twist

[Suzako]

I think she's such a great character. They could have have had her be such a cliche: the bored housewife. And the most stereotypical storyline would be to have her get addicted to drugs and just sit in a stupor all day. Instead, she is a really complicated weird person. And that's great. The lie where she said she wanted to take a picture of her daughter crying. Weird! And the scene in the doctor's office, when she said "Oh, you're going to talk now?!!" Scary!

I love her.


I'm also very glad we finally got to see some true tenderness between her and Don.