63 replies to this topic

[Mindymoo]

So, while watching the "Circle of Friends" episode today, it got me thinking of Rudy. When we first met him, while something was a wee bit off for me about him, I thought he was just a weird guy doing a good thing. What really creeped me was this episode, where he mentions the Humpy Dumpty thing. I want to know, when did you first start to see what was wrong with Rudy, and when did you realize that he did more than just put Tucci back together again?

Edited by Mindymoo, Aug 20, 2007 @ 4:01 AM.

[thelephant]

Pretty much the instant he appeared on the screen. Not because I'm super intuitive or anything, more because of that Hitchcock saying, that a gun introduced in the first act must go off in the third, and the fact that I've watched tv shows with hunts for serial killers in before. When he was in the hospital room and was getting lots of unecessary screen time and making sheep's eyes at Debra and then started seeing her, I figured he couldn't just be a boyfriend, because that wouldn't really serve much purpose. I had no idea that he and Dexter were related though, so there was still the enjoyment of the big reveal.

[thelephant]

Double post!

Edited by thelephant, Aug 20, 2007 @ 4:21 AM.

[beebs]

Same as you thelephant. When he showed up at the hospital and started chatting with Deb... Hmmm, I knew he wasn't right. I also didn't get that he was Dex's bro, but I was about 90% sure he was the killer. The reason I wasn't 100% was because it seemed too obvious for him to be the killer.

[sneaky1079]

See, I didn't figure out that there was something off about Rudy until he started dating Deb, and all he wanted to talk about was Dex. When he first showed up at the hospital, I was like, "oh, a potential love interest for Deb, la la la," and I actually thought that he might end up as a victim of the Ice Truck Killer. I guess I'm not good at seeing things coming.

I was really glad that we got the reveal about Rudy being the ITK when we did though. They still had the surprise about them being brothers to spring on us at the end, and by that time it was glaringly obvious that Rudy was not right.

[SamuelLChang]

I also realized there was something up the moment he showed up on screen. The whole brother angle caught me by surprise but I definitely got the sense that there was more to Rudy than he initially let on. He just looked incredibly shady.

The best part is that he's this guy everyone is hunting and he's living right in the middle of everyone...even helping one of his victims. That's bold. I think Christian played the role perfectly.

[darkestboy]

Rudy creeps me out. His scenes with Deb in Circle Of Friends have this kind of uncomfort towards them.

[Gormenghast]

SamuelLChang wrote

I also realized there was something up the moment he showed up on screen. The whole brother angle caught me by surprise but I definitely got the sense that there was more to Rudy than he initially let on. He just looked incredibly shady.

The best part is that he's this guy everyone is hunting and he's living right in the middle of everyone...even helping one of his victims. That's bold. I think Christian played the role perfectly.

Indeed he did, he made me fall in love with the character in one second.
I think that he's a wonderful actor, and I'm going to miss him in Season 2.

I started a Christian Camargo LJ community if you're interested in this brilliant actor.

[vallegirl]

I think Christian played the role perfectly.

He really did. He has such an extraordinary face that is by turns really cute and frightfully menacing without ever feeling hammy. I was especially impressed by that scene where he's shining Deb on on the boat about how he really was falling in love with her and his face was all sweet and pleading and with just the subtlest of changes it became bloodless and hard when he mocked her. It was so intimate and subtle but completely devastating.

Edited by vallegirl, Aug 20, 2007 @ 9:10 PM.

[Mindymoo]

Indeed he did, he made me fall in love with the character in one second.
I think that he's a wonderful actor, and I'm going to miss him in Season 2.

He truly was the perfect actor for this role. He could convey so much in his face. And when he was with Deb, even after I knew who he was, I could almost believe what he was saying to her.

Does his appearance remind anyone of Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker, though? I should have put this in my original post, but that was something else that kind of weirded me out with him when I first saw him on screen. I was like "Jeez, didn't I just see you on 'American Justice' the other day?"

I spoiled myself by watching the first two episodes of the season, and his character was in them. He was kind of in a ghost form, which sort of reminded me of when the dead people would haunt the Fisher family in SFU, but I was pleased that he was on my screen. Hopefully, he will pop up here and there during the rest of the season.

[SamuelLChang]

Since Dexter let both him and the doll head go, it seems like Rudy is pretty much done affecting Dexter's "work." Perhaps he will return in a dream...I dunno. I'm not sure how many episodes Christian signed on for.

[Gormenghast]

Mindymoo,

I spoiled myself too by watching the first two episodes, I couldn't resist in the end.

Unfortunately, I believe that was the last we'll see of Biney. I think the purpose of those scenes was to give closure to the Biney character and arc. It was handled very well, I think. Nonetheless, it was hard to watch Biney go a second time!

Edited by Gormenghast, Aug 21, 2007 @ 7:57 AM.

[Mindymoo]

Unfortunately, I believe that was the last we'll see of Biney. I think the purpose of those scenes was to give closure to the Biney character and arc. It was handled very well, I think. Nonetheless, it was hard to watch Biney go a second time!

It certainly was hard to let him go again. But he still has to be ingrained in Dex's life, after what's happened. I don't want him to continue to come back in the ghostly form that he was, because it would be too much like SFU, but he could always come back in flashback form. The show does love its flashbacks, after all. Even if the flashbacks were Deb's, I would be glad.

[the fresh maker]

I want to know, when did you first start to see what was wrong with Rudy, and when did you realize that he did more than just put Tucci back together again?

I figured that the ITK would end up being among some secondary characters that we'd gotten to know; he wouldn't show up out of nowhere. Rudy became the most likely suspect of characters we got to know--somewhat shady and just on the periphery enough that we didn't get to know too much about him.

I thought it was brilliant that we found out Rudy was the ITK fairly early, but later discovered he was Dexter's brother. At some point, I think it became obvious that Rudy was the ITK, and the show has always treated the audience with respect. So, the mystery of Dexter's childhood and long-lost brother really kept the plot going.

[Lady Agnew]

Yeah, it was the way he was introduced that gave me pause. Look at it: he's the medical professional that's helping the security guard who lost his limbs get shiny new artificial ones. I know that rationally, as he spun it for Deb as well, that's a job with sincerely altruistic motives, but it's also incredibly creepy from another point of view. Doll limbs, fake human parts, with the macabre connotations plus the careful technical skill that it takes to make such things all screamed potential serial killer to me.

What threw me off was his incredible affability. I loved Camargo's performance because he didn't fall into that Gollum trap, of playing the evil part of his personality with gusto while playing the benign part of his personality with fake-y syrupy sweetness. What he did instead was play a small hint of strangeness in his nice guy persona -- which always kept Deb off balance around him and convinced her that she was falling in love with him -- and when he was revealed as the bad guy, he didn't dramatically rip off his "fake" persona and cackle melodramatically: he was still the same guy, still sardonic and amused and intense, just now honest about his real motivations.

His character and performance reminded me of one of my favorite villains in all of fiction: The Mayor from BtVS. The Mayor, as played by Harry Groener, was affable and goofy and overall presented himself as a nice guy, but with great scary thread of steel and violenc-y tendencies lurking underneath the surface. Rudy/Brian had the same sort of complexity. I have zero doubt that he's an evil man, truly and sickly evil in a way that I can't quite believe of Dexter, but there's also something ... I don't know, pure about his love for his brother that I also believe is 100% real. It's both parts of that equation that make him so interesting.

[lesfull]

I also thought the actor who played Rudy/Brian was fantastic. Maybe it was just me, though, but there was a point when Rudy was over at Dexter's apartment drinking with him that I got a strong homoerotic vibe from him. Then when we found out that he was Dexter's brother- let me just say that REALLY creeped me out.

[bookwrm89]

Maybe it was just me, though, but there was a point when Rudy was over at Dexter's apartment drinking with him that I got a strong homoerotic vibe from him. Then when we found out that he was Dexter's brother- let me just say that REALLY creeped me out.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt like that. Even as a child, before the cargo container, in the flashbacks Dex was having at their old house...there was something about Brian that creeped me out. Especially the scene where little Dex was playing and Brian was just hanging on to him, hugging him. I can sort of see where Harry would think Brian was too far gone to "save".

[Mindymoo]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt like that. Even as a child, before the cargo container, in the flashbacks Dex was having at their old house...there was something about Brian that creeped me out. Especially the scene where little Dex was playing and Brian was just hanging on to him, hugging him. I can sort of see where Harry would think Brian was too far gone to "save".

Since I just got my DVDs, I was up until 6:00 AM last night watching the series all the way through, and I agree with you, something did seem weird about Brian's relationship with Dexter, prior to the cargo container incident. Perhaps he was seriously disturbed prior to that. I mean, it is possible for a child of such a young age to have mental problems, even if they aren't noticed until much later.

We do know that his mother was involved in drugs. Perhaps she was using drugs while pregnant, and that caused some sort of defect with Brian? Or maybe the mother was high all the time, and even though he wasn't that much older, Brian took on the "protector" role, and tried to take care of Dex as much as he could. All I know is that it was odd, because at those ages, my brother and I needed to be kept apart in order to stop us from killing each other- and we're brother and sister. And from the brother-brother relationships I've seen around those ages, fighting and rough-housing is the norm, not cuddling and clinging.

[vallegirl]

They weren't raised in a normal household though. Mom was a junkie and she kept company with drug dealers. Not exactly the place where kids run happy and free and rough house to pass time.

And I never saw Brian as any more "creepy" than morose little Astor. And she is morose, with good reason. She's seen her father try to kill her mother. They've both seen things children shouldn't see and as the oldest, they are more likely to be protective of the younger ones.

I just can't see any justification for Harry seeing a five year old for three seconds and deeming him "too far gone." He was five. Even Dexter wouldn't have written him off.

Edited by vallegirl, Aug 26, 2007 @ 12:05 AM.

[Puds38]

Brian was 4. He and Dexter were a year apart.

[thelephant]

I just can't see any justification for Harry seeing a five year old for three seconds and deeming him "too far gone." He was five. Even Dexter wouldn't have written him off.

Remember the one handed prostitute? And the fact that it was strongly implied that Rudy had a fetish for amputees? Maybe Biney wasn't sitting in all the blood and screaming like Dexter. Maybe he was doing something...else.

And now I've made myself feel sick.

[vallegirl]

The child was a child. He was traumatized and sitting in a pool of blood. I doubt he was waving his mother's hand in the air like he didn't care.

[lesfull]

That's really funny- well not haha funny- but I was thinking the same thing about Brian's limb fetish. I agree that he wasn't "waving her hand in the air," but I thought his obsession with body parts started there.

[vallegirl]

No doubt that's where it began, since witnessing his mother's gruesome murder and dismemberment was traumatic and undeniably the most influential moment in his life. But I can't imagine there was anything a small child could consciously do in that state that would cause an instantaneous "too fucked up" diagnosis except be at the age where he could remember the incident where Dexter was probably considered less likely to have any recollection and therefore remain "untouched." I don't think Brian was "doing" anything but being a frightened and traumatized child.

Edited by vallegirl, Aug 26, 2007 @ 4:24 PM.

[Radiohead]

Did anyone else get the impression that something MORE happened in that shipping container that what we were told? When Dexter questioned that records woman about the incident, she told him not to go there, to leave it alone.
We then find out that they were not found for 2 days - could something more have gone on in there? Something Harry saw that convinced him that only Dexter could have been saved?
The grusome murders were obviously traumatic enough - but it felt to me like we still don't have the full story.

[lesfull]

Actually, I totally agree that something else happened. Maybe we will find out more about that as the show progresses.

[thelephant]

Did anyone else get the impression that something MORE happened in that shipping container that what we were told? When Dexter questioned that records woman about the incident, she told him not to go there, to leave it alone.

I think that Harry and Records Lady were both trying to stop Dexter from digging into his past so he didn't find out about his brother and his father. I don't know how much more there was to it that that. But I think it's a pretty safe bet that if Harry was keeping tabs on Joe Driscoll for years after he took Dexter home, he was also keeping tabs on Brian in the mental institution, and the last thing he would have wanted would be for Dexter to find out he had a brother who was like him and could lure him away from Harry's carefully controlled lessons about the Code.

[Ammit]

Did anyone else get the impression that something MORE happened in that shipping container that what we were told?

I think that Brian was the big secret there. There's no way that Harry would want Dexter to find out about that part of his life, especially if Harry believed that Brian was "too far gone".

I too, felt Dexter's ambiguity about killing Brian. He obviously needed to be off the streets, but I felt more sympathy for him than he deserved. Dexter obviously felt sympathy/empathy for him too, which contradicts his self-diagnosis as a complete sociopath.

Brian needed to be adopted and shown love too, not stuck in an institution. They may be much better than they used to be, but public mental/jail facilities probably still cause as much trauma as they treat. The thought of a five year old being placed there is horrific and the results are predictable. And I agree with mindymoo that Brian's mental problems probably predated the container massacre. Brian probably never had a chance. I'm sure that releasing him on an unsuspecting society had more to do with budget concerns than his mental health.

Unless I misunderstood, Brian's whole career as the ITK was an effort to impress and befriend Dexter, with the hopes of a family re-unification. That's really quite pathetic and sad, especially since it was a failure. Not to mention the victims, although they probably would have died anyway, just for sport.

I wonder if we will get to know more of Rudy/Brian's background next season. We know how Dexter leaned his craft. Where did Brian learn to avoid detection etc. Did he have his ownmentor in the hospital? I wouldn't mind seeing more of that actor every now and then (maybe in the odd flashback or Dexter dream). He did an exceptional job of taking a truly heinous character and giving him some very human qualities.

[Gormenghast]

That's something that has always bothered me too: how could Harry so lightheartedly choose between the boys which one was worthy of salvation, and which one wasn't. How could he pick one up, and leave the other standing in a pool of blood for yet a little longer...

[Radiohead]

I agree that it was really odd that Harry only chose to 'save' one of the boys - thats another thing that made me think that he saw something in the container that made the decision for him. I hope we find out either way in season 2.