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We Control the Mind: Producing on the Grassy Knoll


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#1

Arsy80

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Posted Aug 10, 2007 @ 1:18 PM

Every season there seems to be a fair amount of producer intervention accusations. Particularly when there are HoH competition foul ups, kind or evil edits, or those mystery DR sessions. This is the thread to discuss what you think is going on behind the little lens in the wall.

With regard to this week, there are comments flying that Eric was saved by production. I think it is possible the producers intentionally got the wavering houseguests up in arms over Dick so they'd keep Eric out of spite, but I'm not sure that's realy rigging the competition. They clearly don't want their twist over this fast and they probably want an America's vote on the jury.

The only clip I've seen is Jameka and Amber angrily discussing DR sessions late Wednesday night, but they dont' talk about the context. It could be they felt pressure to keep Eric. Or it could be they were reprimanded over Amber's rants on the news. I don't think it's clear.

#2

onewaslost

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Posted Aug 10, 2007 @ 7:57 PM

I call shenanigans on TPTB showing a picture of Amber's kid on a show in which she "swore on her child's life" not to vote off America's Player. I'm betting that they told her they would be showing that pic to encourage her to keep her sacred vow.

#3

Cosmocrush

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Posted Aug 10, 2007 @ 8:19 PM

The only clip I've seen is Jameka and Amber angrily discussing DR sessions late Wednesday night, but they dont' talk about the context. It could be they felt pressure to keep Eric. Or it could be they were reprimanded over Amber's rants on the news. I don't think it's clear.


Here's one where Jen tells Dick and Daniele about how BB tried to persuade her to save Eric and how they "tip people off". She refused. Daniele tells how Julie asked her how could she be 100% sure the weird votes were always Eric. Julie reminded Dani that nothing is what it seems in the BB House. Daniele didn't bite.

#4

teeracey

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Posted Aug 11, 2007 @ 9:18 PM

I call BS on all "rigging" theories. This whole show is one big cacophony of whispers in the diary room, and slanting towards certain houseguests.

They never outright tell anyone to vote anyone out (lawsuit like whoa) but some people like Jen are smart enough to realize it. However, if the option of swaying was never there, it would be impossible to flip a vote. ie: Amber promised to get Eric out in a moment of emotional rage. All the DR had to do was ask "Is this the right move for you? Your alliance?" "Are you sure you want to let your emotions lead?" They're valid questions I've seen answered in DRs, but could absolutely sway on the fence-ers.

So yes, I believe the DR influences, but no one rigging is any worse than another.

As for slanting: remember POV week 2 with the curling? Dick had created a game similar to that in the back yard that both he and Dani were great at. CBS wanted it's twist to continue, coincidence? Perhaps, if I were more paranoid/cared at all, I could get up in arms.

The edits on the show are having a direct effect on the game (AP). This is the only thing that has really infuriated me this season. Dick is edited like a saint (even though he does have those supporters of his full feed behaviour), and I think he gets many popularity votes he wouldn't have if CBS were legally able to air a tenth of his comments. Seeing this guy as number 1 in the popularity polls is just sickening, and I wholeheartedly blame CBS and their slanted editing.

#5

Cosmocrush

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Posted Aug 14, 2007 @ 10:49 AM

Interesting that not only has Eric never played in a POV comp but last week he said he asked to look in the bag and see if his ball was even in there and the producers said nope, it's against the rules. I'm thinking they don't want him to get POV because then "America" would get to tell him who to take off the block.

#6

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Posted Aug 15, 2007 @ 3:14 PM

Actually, since the Veto Competition and the Veto Ceremony are both in the same episode, this couldn't be an America's Player vote, unless they spread it out over two episodes (which they certainly could do). From the spoiler/feed threads, it seems that the POV compeition and meeting happen several days before Tuesday, in many cases.

#7

dippychik

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Posted Aug 16, 2007 @ 5:39 AM

Jen and Amber pretty much said out loud the DR tried to get them to vote for Dustin over Dick. Jen seemed especially put out by it. This is my first USBB, are they always this blatent with it?

#8

netnof69

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Posted Aug 16, 2007 @ 1:38 PM

Does anyone else think that the producers sent the plane overhead declaring Eric and Amber liars? Just to spice things up.

#9

Cosmocrush

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Posted Aug 16, 2007 @ 7:26 PM

Actually, since the Veto Competition and the Veto Ceremony are both in the same episode, this couldn't be an America's Player vote, unless they spread it out over two episodes (which they certainly could do).

Oh yeah, good point.

#10

Spy Idol

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Posted Aug 16, 2007 @ 8:46 PM

Here's some pretty good evidence of producer manipulation that someone posted in the 8-19 thread:

http://www.youtube.c...doA...e=0&view=

#11

Benji

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Posted Aug 17, 2007 @ 1:33 AM

It's really lame that we know for a fact last week and this week's eviction wouldn't have gone down as it did without producer intervention. Makes me really wonder what the point is in watching.

#12

Roark13579

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Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 7:46 AM

Bringing this over from the Questions thread:

If the DR is attempting to manipulate their votes, why is that considered "rigging?" These people have agreed to live in a house where a disembodied voice watches their every move, tells them when to wake up every day, puts them on lockdown, can wake them repeatedly in the night, makes them wear silly costumes, dump crap on their head, etc. etc. etc. Why is so unforgivable for that same concept to apply to manipulating their minds through the DR?

Because all those things you listed are done to the players equally. If a baseball team decides to move the fences in twenty feet next season because it has a lot of sluggers, that's still fair, because visiting teams will be swinging at those same fences, and have the option of moving their own fences out. That's very different from a team moving the fences in while it's batting, and then moving them back out while the other team is batting. If the producers are trying to help certain players stay in the game at the expense of others, that's more like the latter.

In BB6 and BB7, there seemed to be an awful lot of those silly trivia contests, which just happened to be one thing that Janelle and her crew excelled at, because they spent a lot of time studying up for them. Nothing stopped the other players from studying just as much, though, so even if that was an attempt by the producers to give her a leg up (as I thought it was), the playing field itself was still level. Now, if you specifically ask questions about things certain players are very likely to know because you watched them quizzing themselves on those exact things last night, then it gets a lot murkier, but it still doesn't guarantee that person anything. Much worse, I'd think, would be if you call the players in on Tuesday and ask how they're feeling about the vote, and it looks like your biggest draw will be going home 3-2; so you start pressuring the weakest link -- openly or subtly -- to change her vote. That's worse because the unpopular player who goes instead has no defense -- and may not even know there's anything to worry about, because everything that's happening within the game says he's safe. The Chicken Georges of the game have the opportunity to win competitions, even if the competitions are designed to favor others; but they can't go into the DR and keep people from being swayed there.

My impression is that a certain amount of this has always gone on (certainly unconsciously, if not intentionally), but that they've gotten greedy over the last couple seasons and gotten worse about it this time around. The twists worked out and other dramas fell into place on their own pretty well over the last few seasons. Nakomis and Cowboy stuck around uncomfortably long in BB5, and the twins kept their secret and got into the game together. In BB6, two alliances developed that absolutely hated each other, and could easily be portrayed as Good and Evil -- or at least Obnoxious and Evil -- and they traded the power back and forth until nearly the end. All-Stars had built-in drama because of the previous relationships, and the two most important players made it to #3 and #4. Also, (and I think this is more important than we often realize) previous seasons have always had "romances" that were important to the game.

So they've had a pretty good run lately, without seeming to need to do much manipulating. Now, they get a season where 2/3 of their big twist is out the door before it can even get started (and was pretty boring anyway). The other twist, Eric, is an amusing diversion now and then, but doesn't really bring any drama to the screen in a direct way. The main romance on the show was infantile, and just pathetic if you knew Daniele's home situation. (I guess Eric and Jessica might have a little something going on, but like everything else about Eric, it's just not that interesting.) Jen looked like a source of drama right at first, but she's settled way down and become downright sensible. For big, mesmerizing drama like they've gotten used to over the past few seasons, Dick and the Dick/Daniele relationship are really all they have left, with the "America's" Player thing as a lame B story. If they lose either of those things, they're down to one story, and if they lose both, what's left? Just a bunch of strangers living in a house again. Now, personally, I think drama would develop out of that situation just fine, as it did in seasons before they worked so hard to arrange it, but I don't think they're willing to take that chance anymore, so their desperation to keep Dick (and to a lesser extent, Eric) in the game may have led them to go much farther in manipulating the players -- and the "America's" votes with the editing -- than ever before.

#13

Natori

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Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 6:56 PM

Very well said Roark13579

#14

harrietthespy

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Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 8:30 PM

Hmm, I'm the one who posted the opinion about rigging and the DR, and while I agree that your argument is strong, I guess I have a different view of what "Big Brother" means.
To me, it is more than just alluding to the viewers watching everything that happens in the house. Orwell's "Big Brother" (after which I've heard the show was named) involved thought control as well as observation. IMO, all of the things I mentioned before, especially the sleep deprivation, are attempts to manipulate the thought processes of the players.
When someone tries to subvert BB, they are isolated, and stronger tactics are used to bring them back into line. To me, then, the leading questions in the DR are a completely acceptable form of manipulation.

#15

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Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 9:00 PM

The more the producers attempt to influence the outcome, the more the show starts to resemble a scripted program. If that's the direction they want to go, that's their call, but I think it's an ill-advised direction, even though it may be completely legal and acceptable.

#16

harrietthespy

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Posted Aug 19, 2007 @ 6:15 PM

I can definitely see that point, but I still think that the strongest hamster could withstand that manipulation...I guess I really think of BB as more of an experiment than a game...

#17

Roark13579

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Posted Aug 20, 2007 @ 11:30 AM

If there weren't prizes, I might be more inclined to agree, but the presence of prizes and votes strongly implies fairness to me. I don't think we're talking about anyone trying "to subvert BB" here; we're talking about people planning certain votes for perfectly natural reasons like to break up strong alliances or to be rid of unpleasant people, and (allegedly) being talked out of it for the sake of DOOG TV.

If the show were an experiment to see if an isolated group of people could be manipulated into following a certain path against their own interests -- like handing $500K to the most reprehensible person they could find -- that might be very interesting (if they let the audience in on the fun), but that's not how they present it. They tell us it's a competition between individuals, based on skill, luck, and strategy; and that the winner played the best game.

#18

harrietthespy

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Posted Aug 21, 2007 @ 9:46 PM

I guess if the producers told them to vote a certain way or else...I would be more convinced. But there is no evidence of any sort of "or else."

#19

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Posted Aug 28, 2007 @ 1:11 AM

But there is no evidence of any sort of "or else."

This is going to be a sketchy suggestion from the get-go, but I'm throwing it out there anyway: the 'or else' seems to me to be the approval from the show and the viewers.

People who end up on reality shows like BB tend to be the sort of people who need validation from others and desperately want to be liked and famous; it's part of why the cliquishness (among people who probably wouldn't have anything to do with each other normally to boot) and bullying is so rampant- no one wants to be the outsider, even if they'd normally find the other people repellent. (And rightfully so, this season.)

So finding the weak link and implying that the other houseguests are voting the other way and leaving them out in the cold, or that the viewers will hate them for voting SoAndSo out does have consequences. They're subtle, but for the whackjobs that show up so frequently, they're real. Undermining someone's confidence can be a very effective tactic to get them to do what you want, and it's very easy to do if you know where the weak spots are... which the show certainly does, since everyone's on camera 24 hours a day. It isn't about going for the strongest competitors, it's about going for the stragglers in the herd. Which, in my opinion, makes the possibility even more unfair.

Edited by MaggieCat, Aug 28, 2007 @ 1:13 AM.


#20

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Posted Aug 30, 2007 @ 3:37 PM

I think the game is all about lying and pleading one's case to other contestants. The DR should have no business trying to undo the work of other contestants. Otherwise they should just allow the hamsters access to others' DR tapes and archived feeds of what went on in the house. There's no game in that, just as there is no game in DR manipulation.

#21

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Posted Sep 9, 2007 @ 1:07 PM

So... is it possible for anyone to figure out how Jameka ended up with a blue ball in her tube? I don't get feeds so I really don't know, but people on these boards always seem to pull up the craziest footage.

#22

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Posted Sep 10, 2007 @ 1:09 PM

I've always been a big proponent of reality show conspiracy theories, but something last week really piqued my "rigged"-dar.

My DirecTV TiVo always lists a portion of a show's cast. For scripted series, it's just the actors who alphabetically appear first, but for reality shows, it varies. Sometimes, it lists the judges (i.e., "American Idol" is Randy, Paula and Simon), but for series like "Survivor," "Amazing Race" and now "Big Brother," it lists the first three contestants' names, alphabetically.

Now, it's been listing Dick and Daniele for more than a month now, along with Jessica (Hughbanks), so I didn't really pay much attention. They were all three near the beginning of the alphabet. But the listing this week is "Dick Donato, Daniele Donato, Jameka Cameron."

But since Jameka's last name comes alphabetically before D&D's, shouldn't her name have appeared before this week?

Even my TiVo believes Dick and Daniele are the stars, and the rest are just supporting players.

#23

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Posted Sep 10, 2007 @ 2:19 PM

Granted, I have Comcast digital cable, but I know for the opening weeks that the first names were for Joe (Barber) and Dustin (Erikstrup), and once Joe was evicted, Daniele went up in his place (Dick eventually went up in Dustin's place). I find it odd that they're snubbing Jameka though.

Edited by CoolKel, Sep 10, 2007 @ 2:19 PM.


#24

LadyJaney

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Posted Sep 13, 2007 @ 9:21 PM

Here's a thought...

Usually, IIRC the last evicted HG gets the boot on the eipsode right before the finale. There is an episode that is airing between the eviction and the finale. The mentioned it as Dick and Dani will be look back at their summer or something to the like of that. It sounds like this Dick and Dani focus episode, something they show may have planned or wanted all along.

You mean to say we would have had a "Dick and Zach recall their summer together" episode otherwise? I having a hard time with that one. Just sounds fishy to me...

#25

TWoP Mars

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Posted Jul 12, 2009 @ 12:56 AM

Closing this thread because a similar one exists in General Gabbery.