Jump to content

The Big Bang Theory


  • Please log in to reply

19689 replies to this topic

#10951

Lionne

Lionne

    Video Archivist

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:05 AM

1) Leslie Winkle - Sara Gilbert got a gig on that all women talk show whose name I cannot remember. That show, and being a mother, keeps her pretty busy. I think they would like to have kept Leslie Winkle around, but Sara simply was not available.

2) Penny's last name - According to the writers, Penny does have a last name and has always had one, but only the producers know what it is. There's been a lot of speculation over what the name is, but that's one thing that I think the writers are keeping in check to surprise people with - probably not until the last episode. Sometimes things just become running gags, and I think Penny's last name is one of those things. I don't think they mean it as an insult to her, nor an indication that they are not fully invested in her character.

As far as Penny's character development, I think that the writers have written themselves into a corner with her, and I suspect that there might be some hints and clues from this season that they might shake things up with her next year. I think that they might do the same thing with Raj. Once Howard and Bernadette get married, that plot line will be done with, and the slate will be clean for new things to come along next year. They've spent a lot of time this season integrating Amy and Bernadette, and they've put a lot of focus on the ways B & A are changing Howard and Sheldon respectively, with the Leonard and Penny relationship on a slower, quieter boil for now and highlighting just how painfully lonely Raj has become.

I'm hoping that next season there will be a storyline with Raj seeing a therapist to deal with his selective mutism, a storyline that focuses on why Penny can't fully commit to Leonard and something that happens with her career, some movement in the character's careers in general, and more of the Sheldon/Amy relationship. (I'm totally digging the Shamy.)

We'll see what they come up with, though. Sometimes I'm honestly not sure just how far they plan ahead.
  • 4

#10952

WestCar20

WestCar20

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:37 AM

2) Penny's last name - According to the writers, Penny does have a last name and has always had one, but only the producers know what it is. There's been a lot of speculation over what the name is, but that's one thing that I think the writers are keeping in check to surprise people with - probably not until the last episode. Sometimes things just become running gags, and I think Penny's last name is one of those things. I don't think they mean it as an insult to her, nor an indication that they are not fully invested in her character.


I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say, Penny has no last name. The writers are allowing the "surprise" concept, so speculation would begin and people in forums like this one would give them suggestions as to what the fan base wants as Penny's last name.

even though it is not the responsibility of the show to provide role models for anyone, its a long-standing and well-known fact that physics and engineering has a massive shortage of women and non-Asian minorities and the applies even more so to depictions of engineers and scientists in popular culture. I'm singling out physics above other sciences because my experiences with biology courses suggests the lack of women is not as bad in there, though the lack of non-Asian minorities and even Caucasians is impossible to miss.


As a non-Asian minority engineer, what I am seeing depicted here is fairly close to reality from the diversity angle. But I admit to having a much greater appreciation for the actual scientist on the cast than for the roles being played.
  • 0

#10953

indeed

indeed

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

Do anyone know of any other cute things I could add as prizes? Please post pictures or links so i can see what you're talking about.

You can try this site. If not to buy, it's just fun to look at all of the shirts.

Edited by indeed, May 8, 2012 @ 11:45 AM.

  • 0

#10954

Winston Wolfe

Winston Wolfe

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 12:04 PM

Johnny Galecki is currently dating actress Kelli Garner. From the photos that have made it public they look pretty happy together.

Kaley I think is now dating some new rocker guy after her laughable short-lived engagement to Josh Reznik.

Thanks for the update, Old Juan. I seldom read magazines like "People," and don't have much of an idea of what goes on in the lives of celebs.

1) Leslie Winkle - Sara Gilbert got a gig on that all women talk show whose name I cannot remember.

It's called "The Talk," Lionne, and similar to the View, it's simply atrocious.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say, Penny has no last name.

I agree, WestCar20. This is Chuck Lorre show. Women simply aren't that important, other than as sexual objects or as targets of ridicule.

Overall, this has been a decent season, solid, but not spectacular. I too wonder where the focus will shift after Howard and Bernadette's marriage. Raj really should be a focal point next season. The actor might as well have taken the whole season off this year.
  • 0

#10955

Old Juan

Old Juan

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 12:24 PM

Thanks for the update, Old Juan. I seldom read magazines like "People," and don't have much of an idea of what goes on in the lives of celebs.


I don't either. I just happened to stumble across both bits of information while surfing the net. Regardless of that, both Johnny and Kaley have always been pretty good at selling the physical portion of the Leonard/Penny relationship. It's the general writing for the pair that has often been lacking.
  • 1

#10956

vic5015

vic5015

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:23 PM

1) Leslie Winkle - Sara Gilbert got a gig on that all women talk show whose name I cannot remember.

It's called "The Talk," Lionne, and similar to the View, it's simply atrocious.

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. They should still have kept her around.

I agree, WestCar20. This is Chuck Lorre show. Women simply aren't that important, other than as sexual objects or as targets of ridicule.


I suspected that was his tendency based on how Penny is written and the stuff she does. Also, two and a half men, based on what I've seen of it, seems to reduce the women in Charlie's life to an endless parade of (often crazy or shrew-ish) bimbos for him to sleep with.
So, back to this show. Especially early on, Penny had a series of crummy boyfriends and bad breakups, but couldn't seem to get off the bad relationship treadmill and I still don't get or like that they made her the stupid Midwestern hayseed. Plus, as mentioned above, Chuck Lorre and the network could have had her be and do anything they wanted, so the fact that she's stuck as a menial waitress and laughably failed actress/singer has to mean something.
Anyway, how is all this not a serious problem/flaw with the show and why doesn't the network try to balance him out with some writers that actually care about female characters if he is known for this? I mean, the natural flip side of creative freedom is that writers and creative people should definitely be held to account for turning characters into regressive, borderline-offensive stereotypes from another age, unless the show/play/movie/whatever is set in said bygone era. You don't have to turn the show into the Lifetime movie of the week, but come on.
OK, I'm done ranting, for now.

Edited by vic5015, May 8, 2012 @ 1:47 PM.

  • 0

#10957

hnygrl808

hnygrl808

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 2:04 PM

Maybe I'm wrong or seeing things differently, but to me? When Leonard and Penny got back together? To me it meant they were finally aware, on a mature adult level, that what they felt for each other was serious. And that this thing was 'going somewhere serious.' If all Penny wanted was another fuck buddy she should look up the dumb guy with the hot body.

To see Penny using Leonard for sex just doesn't sit right with me, especially knowing that Leonard is not a boy, or a toy, but a Man and a good one at that. She's seen what the female population thinks of Leonard. He's actually quite the catch. She's had her moments of regret, watching beautiful, successful, completly desirable women fall for him again and again. And yet, when he comes to her, asks like a real man should, for another shot? And they finally end up back in bed? You'd think she'd cut him some slack instead of treating him like the neurotic loser nerd-case he was the first time they went out.

Seriously. It upset me when she kicked him out of bed in the middle of sex for saying out loud what he was thinking. And making out like she is this great catch and he should be happy just to sniff her naked vagina. You'd think she'd realize that marriage is exactly where this thing is going, but wait till after sex to talk to Leonard like a man and not like a freaking sex toy.

Okay, done venting...every time I watch that it just pisses me off all over again.

Edited by TWoP Howard, May 8, 2012 @ 7:07 PM.
Please don’t hide words behind asterisks

  • 1

#10958

nilyank

nilyank

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 2:09 PM

I think both Penny and Leonard do think that the Beta testing is for a serious relationship, but like always, he is further along on the relationship path than she is. However, we do know that Penny already thinks marriage is in the probable future as she picture herself pregnant and getting married with Leonard when she considered getting back together with him this season.
  • 0

#10959

WestCar20

WestCar20

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 2:38 PM

I think both Penny and Leonard do think that the Beta testing is for a serious relationship, but like always, he is further along on the relationship path than she is. However, we do know that Penny already thinks marriage is in the probable future as she picture herself pregnant and getting married with Leonard when she considered getting back together with him this season.


I agree. The reactions Penny has been having are all look like fear to me. She isn't ready for what Leonard wants, but does see it as a future possibility. It is perfectly normal in a woman who has not had the best relationships and whose father only seemed to approve of her when he thought she was dating Leonard. Hesitation is perfectly reasonable. If she were using him for sex, they would have been done when he proposed (like the first time he said he loved her). If Leonard is not willing to wait for the commitment, then, maybe he is the one with the issue in the relationship. Penny was honest about her hesitation from the start.
  • 0

#10960

Princess Aldrea

Princess Aldrea

    Stalker

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

It upset me when she kicked him out of bed in the middle of sex for saying out loud what he was thinking.

I don't think that Penny was acting like she was so superior to Leonard. They had just reached the sex sate of their relationship after four months and he proposed? This probably brings back panic about how they broke up when he said "I love you" too soon. Although at least then it had been a couple of months so I think his saying "I love you" wasn't out of line. What would have been the best way for Penny to handle the situation? It freaked her out so the mood was killed. Should she have let him awkwardly lie in the bed with her? Besides, she didn't so much kick him out as immediately left herself and he followed her out.

I think the idea of beta-testing their relationship was fine but that dragged on for too long. Four months before they thought it had a shot?

Edited by Princess Aldrea, May 8, 2012 @ 4:55 PM.

  • 0

#10961

Old Juan

Old Juan

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 4:47 PM

The whole point of this recent debacle was to show Penny's growth as a character. Had this been the Penny of say season three or even four she would have most likely dumped him like she had in season three for something arguably less offensive on the "going too fast" train. Penny is clearly ready for something long term with Leonard, just not marriage yet.

To me any issues that I have with Penny as far as how she views Leonard is that she seemingly still takes her relationship with him for granted. Her nonchalant dismissal of Leonard ever taking her for granted and hurting her when Amy asks her in relation to her(Amy's)problems with Sheldon. It really does reek of arrogance in a way. It also does give credence to the notion that she believes herself to be superior person in the relationship. As if Leonard is lucky that she gives him the time of day. Then her rather arrogant dismissal of having any concern about what would happen at Howard's bachelor party was another example of this same sense of superiority.

Priya, whether or not anybody liked her character or not was a gorgeous woman who had more going for her than Penny did as far as professional prospects are concerned and she went for Leonard. I think Penny needs a little reality check on both Leonard in general and her relationship with him.

Maybe that will come in season six.
  • 0

#10962

hnygrl808

hnygrl808

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 4:58 PM

Yeah old juan, I would love to see Leonard get some really big deal award and be in the news and magazines, and have all kinds of professional women clamoring for his attention. And in one television scene he's with Penny...and when asked "what does your lovely companion do?" Oh, I'm an actress." "Anything we've seen you in?"

That would open her eyes as to what a catch Leonard is and make her stop taking his affection and fidelity for granted. Leonard just may get sick of her superior attitude one of these days. And then where would she be? A washed up would-be actress with a drinking problem, questionable morals, and no other ambitions that anybody can see.

Leonard really IS too smart for her.

Can ya tell I don't LIKE Penny? Does it show?
  • 0

#10963

Oldernotwiser

Oldernotwiser

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 5:19 PM

Maybe it's because I was also very conflicted when I was Penny's age, but I really sympathize with her. She wouldn't be the first young person with big dreams that had to revise those dreams drastically when reality came along...career, guy, future....hard choices. I'm sure she envisioned her life completely differently when she moved from Nebraska to be an "actress," and now she's just a waitress and her time limit for making it as an actress is just about up, at her age.

I think if she had a more successful career she'd be self-confident enough to view adulthood more positively and be more ready to get serious with Leonard. As it is, she's still hanging on to being a pretty girl with a shoe habit.
  • 0

#10964

Old Juan

Old Juan

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 6:29 PM

I think one of the big reasons why Leonard comes off as insecure at times is because of Penny's seemingly indifferent attitude toward their relationship. IMO he's not as bad as he used to be, he has gotten a lot more confident since the pilot, some have argued to the extent that he can come off as a dick at times. But just look at what her comments to him in the beginning of the stag party episode did to him. It's no wonder he overcompensates, Penny basically tells him he's a joke. He wants to make the relationship work but more importantly like any person be it male or female he wants to feel valued and desired by his partner. IMO that isn't unreasonable by any stretch. It's what anybody really wants when it comes to a relationship if their completely honest with themselves. So he feels he has to try harder to proof himself to her and with her continued comments she's pretty much confirming his feelings of having to try harder or even overcompensate. All Penny really has to do is tell Leonard that she's happy with their relationship and likes him just the way he is and that would go a long with to curb his tendency to go overboard. But that would make too much logic sense and therefore it won't happen.
  • 1

#10965

Winston Wolfe

Winston Wolfe

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 6:59 PM

Priya, whether or not anybody liked her character or not was a gorgeous woman who had more going for her than Penny did as far as professional prospects are concerned and she went for Leonard. I think Penny needs a little reality check on both Leonard in general and her relationship with him.

Good point Old Juan. Priya, Doctor Stephanie, Leslie Winkle, heck, even the comic book artist were all pretty nice catches and all four of them had Penny beat in the career department. For that reason alone, Leonard need not be as insecure as he is, and Penny needs to stop acting like she's doing him some kind of favor.

Edited by Winston Wolfe, May 8, 2012 @ 7:00 PM.

  • 0

#10966

Neurotic Kitten

Neurotic Kitten

    Video Archivist

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:38 PM

I wouldn't say that one is better than the other, just that Leonard and Penny want different things from their relationship: Leonard wants commitment, Penny is not ready yet to define their relationship like that, he does overcompensate a lot, to the point he might be overbearing, and Penny is quite dismissal of him. If the relationship does end, then it would make sense he's the one who makes the breaking off decision, they seem to sincerely care for each other, but it's that enough just to wait for a maybe?

Speaking of Penny's career issues (along with Raj selective mutism), they really need to solve that plot point already, either she has a reality check and accepts she'll never be an actress and starts looking for other career prospects, or she finally gets an acting job in either a bad soap opera or a bad sci-fi show. Actually a sci-fi show within the show would be a great fodder for jokes a and new plots.
  • 1

#10967

stecciem

stecciem

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:59 PM

Actually a sci-fi show within the show would be a great fodder for jokes a and new plots.


I really love this idea. It would bring Penny that much further into Leonard's world, and it's something she can be proud of. Leondard would be her biggest fan!
  • 0

#10968

vic5015

vic5015

    Couch Potato

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 3:47 AM

Kitten, are you implying sci-fi is a refuge for hammy actors who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag? Seriously though, sci-fi has bad shows and movies, just like every other genre and I don't mind admitting that ;). Heck, Plan 9 from outer space is universally acknowledged as one of the worst movies ever. Its funny for all the wrong reasons and is hardly alone in the sub-genre of truly atrocious sci-fi films. I'm certainly on-board with your idea, though. Now we just need to band together and convince the show brass. TPTB really need to reach a decision on what to do with Penny. Aimless drifting may be realistic, but its not much fun to watch in the absence of great writing or a stellar, illuminating acting performance.

Edited by vic5015, May 9, 2012 @ 3:51 AM.

  • 0

#10969

NoPity1066

NoPity1066

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 8:20 AM

Big Bang Newbie here, so please forgive transgressions. I did observe the 15/15 rule. I'm maybe 30 random episodes in, it's now my new, MOST favorite show, and waiting for my Amazon package with the first four seasons to arrive, so I'll refrain from asking annoying newbie questions until I'm more acclimated to the show and this thread. But wanted to make a few observations.

I watched (not in order) Sheldon's triple-knock evolve in the first season, and it was brilliant. He tied the character's quirky habits so effectively to gentle physical comedy and timed it perfectly with the audience reaction. I am now incapable of knocking on a door any other way.

I agree that Rajesh has been getting shortchanged from day one as a character. I really "got" the whole can't-talk-to-women thing, as I witnessed that first-hand on the campus of Carnegie-Mellon MANY times (no offense to CMU !), but jeez ! Can't they give him more to do/say when he's with his friends ? Sheldon, Leonard, and Howard all have clearly defined roles and traits - PLURAL - but Raj is a one-note song. So sad to marginalize his character. Maybe it would have been better for him to be entirely silent for the whole run of the series ? Mystery-man/Penn and Teller foil ?

I LOVE that they're always eating ! And not in the typical sitcom way where they poke and prod their food and fake-sip an obviously fake, under-poured cup of coffee. They actually EAT the food, use real condiments, S&P, and seem to genuinely enjoy it. It must be enormously gratifying for the on-set caterer to see their hard work actually being eaten rather than wasted as just a prop.

I'm 50-50 on Penny, but mystified on her Cheesecake Factory uniform and the restaurant itself. Both are astoundingly inaccurate. I'm sure the BBT set has been lambasted by fans and Cheesecake Factory employees alike. Why not just have made it an anonymous diner or Big Boy's/Shoneys ? Chuck Lorre has an ax to grind, it seems.

And they SHOULD create an arc for Penny to be in a sci-fi show ! Best of both worlds and such. Penny gets her on-camera dream gig, and Leonard gets to live in Comic-Con girlfriend nirvana. I can see her in a faux serio-comic-type role like the straight-faced Gwen DeMarco from Galaxy Quest. I'd love to see Penny released from her failure as an actress and elevated to more than just endlessly walking up and down the stairs.

The ball-pit scene (BAZINGA !) was the funniest goddamn thing I've ever seen. Well, second to the Hitler Hand Puppet sketch with Harvey Korman and Tim Conway. (YouTube Carol Burnett - Interrogation Scene, really good stuff at 5:00 onward) But it's a BRILLIANT example of the cerebral vs. physical on the show that made me an instant fan. When you're about to wet your pants from laughing you KNOW they've hit their mark.
  • 0

#10970

Princess Aldrea

Princess Aldrea

    Stalker

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 8:42 AM

but mystified on her Cheesecake Factory uniform and the restaurant itself. Both are astoundingly inaccurate. I'm sure the BBT set has been lambasted by fans and Cheesecake Factory employees alike.

Well, it is free publicity for the Cheesecake Factory in a very popular show and it's not like the restaurant is portrayed as a dump or anything so I can see why they wouldn't complain.
  • 0

#10971

Neurotic Kitten

Neurotic Kitten

    Video Archivist

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 8:42 AM

vic5015: I did not imply such thing, I'm aware that all fiction genres have bad works, and I'm big fan of sci-fi, but TBBT has shown that Penny is not a good actress (or singer for that matter), so it would make sense if she was cast in a bad show, and within the context of TBBT, it would make sense if said show was sci-fi.

I wouldn't mind if she ended up choosing a different career part either, just that they do something with her character that goes beyond the issues with the guys. Then again, this would require a level of awareness of the writers that I do believe they have, but won't use because they seem the believe they need to keep things simple.
  • 0

#10972

LoneHaranguer

LoneHaranguer

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 10:00 AM

Priya, Doctor Stephanie, Leslie Winkle, heck, even the comic book artist were all pretty nice catches and all four of them had Penny beat in the career department. For that reason alone, Leonard need not be as insecure as he is, and Penny needs to stop acting like she's doing him some kind of favor.

Leonard's insecurities were drilled into him by his mother. As long as Penny can push his buttons, then she doesn't have to feel insecure herself.
  • 0

#10973

braggtastic

braggtastic

    Stalker

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 10:16 AM

I've heard of Cheesecake Factory, but strangely enough I thought it was a place that sold cheesecake (and perhaps other desserts). If it wasn't for this show, I would have no idea it was an actual restaurant.
  • 0

#10974

vic5015

vic5015

    Couch Potato

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:00 PM

Kitten, I know you didn't intend to diss sci-fi. It was a joke. I tried to make that clear with the wink emoticon, but I guess I should have clarified more. The writers really do need to give Penny some sort of purpose or direction and they could do far worse than to have her land a gig on an atrocious sci-fi show. Certainly the gang and many of the fans would love that. Its very difficult to pull off aimless drifting and I doubt the writers care enough about Penny to make it work with her. Plus, the extra material provided by the TV show format probably makes it impossible to pull off with one of your main characters over any sort of multi-season arc, unless you have a legendary writer-actor combo.
Haranguer, the moms are hilarious, except maybe Howard's; and I appear to be one of the few who finds her an offensive caricature. Even she has some really funny moments, though. However, they are all arguably terrible mothers who seriously messed up their kids, who were probably shy and awkward from the start.
Honestly, this show has made me wonder if all the guys have Asperger's and which came first, the high intelligence or the social issues. Sheldon in particular seems to embody the disorder, right down to how certain professions (scientist, particularly theoretical ones, many types of engineer, etc) practically demand such a personality. Given that acting would be an absolutely terrible profession for someone with the condition, that's very much to Jim Parsons' credit.
I say that even though I, and apparently many of the people on the show; particularly one Mr. Howard Wolowitz, occasionally find Sheldon intolerable. Last night I was watching the episode where the gang goes to the Arctic and Howard repeatedly voicing a desire to murder Sheldon was one of the high points. "For this I went to MIT." "There's no time for the crossbow." <imitates gunfire> I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. In fact, I'm going to go buy that episode right now.

Edited by vic5015, May 9, 2012 @ 12:39 PM.

  • 0

#10975

My Way

My Way

    Stalker

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:36 PM

Chuck Lorre and the network could have had her be and do anything they wanted, so the fact that she's stuck as a menial waitress and laughably failed actress/singer has to mean something.

I think it means they wanted a big contrast with all the scientists, mostly.

Actually a sci-fi show within the show would be a great fodder for jokes a and new plots.

I like this idea simply for the guys geeking out factor. I also think it would be funny if she started pretending to be a big nerd for nerd cred, or something. Or maybe someone interviewed her and asked her nerd questions and she knew all of them and people were very excited about that.

Well, it is free publicity for the Cheesecake Factory in a very popular show and it's not like the restaurant is portrayed as a dump or anything

I agree that itís free publicity but it really does look kind of dumpy to me. Like a backroom little country food place. Most cheesecake factories are all gleaming polished wood.

I've heard of Cheesecake Factory, but strangely enough I thought it was a place that sold cheesecake (and perhaps other desserts).

They do sell cheesecake, tons of it! They just also have about a 10 page menu full of other stuff they sell.

Vic5015, I hate howards mom too, mostly because I want Howard to move out and become an adult. Heís so close with Bernadette, he just needs that extra step.
  • 0

#10976

vera charles

vera charles

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:42 PM

Howard repeatedly voicing a desire to murder Sheldon was one of the high points. "For this I went to MIT." "There's no time for the crossbow." <imitates gunfire>

And "I'm going to be known as the engineer who designed the crossbow that killed Sheldon."
  • 0

#10977

vic5015

vic5015

    Couch Potato

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 1:49 PM

My Way, while its true that the Cheesecake Factory Penny works at does not really resemble the ones I've been to all, its not hideous and I'd consider eating there. Besides, they've taken a lot of flack from people complaining their menu is one of the unhealthiest around. Have you seen the nutritional info for some of their items, particularly their cheesecakes (admittedly a very optional indulgence one would do well to avoid)?
In addition to being loud and rude, Howard's mom is incredibly smothering and infantilizing, which is what I mean by "she a stereotype". She's not the worst TV mother ever, but she's a real piece of work.

Edited by vic5015, May 9, 2012 @ 1:50 PM.

  • 0

#10978

Princess Aldrea

Princess Aldrea

    Stalker

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 1:56 PM

I think Raj's mom is okay but we've never seen her in person.
  • 0

#10979

vic5015

vic5015

    Couch Potato

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 2:33 PM

Aldrea, you may have a point. From what I recall of Raj's video chats with his parents, it does seem like his father is the pushy, overbearing one, constantly wanting to know why his kids aren't married or at least in a relationship. That's pretty faithful to the experiences of the Asian people I know, however.

Edited by vic5015, May 9, 2012 @ 2:36 PM.

  • 0

#10980

LoneHaranguer

LoneHaranguer

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 4:08 PM

they are all arguably terrible mothers who seriously messed up their kids

Ditto Penny's father; like with Leonard and his mother, nothing Penny did was ever good enough.
  • 0