15242 replies to this topic

[theatremouse]

I don't see sex with a hooker for a single man in his 20s as a horrible thing, especially under the circumstances. He didn't seek out a prostitute and hire her, his friends did it and he was not aware until either afterwards or pretty far into it.

I disagree. I'm also pretty sure he was in his 30s at the time, although I personally don't think the decade makes much difference. He was definitely aware beforehand, although I guess our definitions of "pretty far into it" may differ, but what we were shown was him chatting up the woman, while she pretended to be an exaggerated Jewish stereotype, he suspected the set up, asked his pals, they confirmed, then he thanked them and went off with her, implying they subsequently had sex, although it's not explicitly stated. I don't think he could fairly use the excuse of being able to claim he actually liked her from their chat and found out later, since it was established onscreen he saw through the pretense, I believe, before the two of them were shown to have ever left the room in which they initially met. It's not as though he actually thought she was a nice Jewish girl AND a hooker his friends bought for him.
Different women may have different thresholds, but the notion of any hooker disgusts me, and I'd definitely break off a wedding over that. There also wouldn't be enough disinfectant in the world to make feel me clean again, but that's a different story.

Edited by theatremouse, Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:55 PM.

[dustylil]

No disrespect intended toward "Esther Rosenblatt" who provided Howard with The Jewish Girlfriend Experience, but I do hope he had himself tested for STDs before he began his next sexual relationship, be it with Bernadette or someone else.

[pasandola]

Esther Rosenblatt was second season. He started dating Bernadette third season. So, only a year or two had passed. I'd have broken off a wedding over that, too, so that part seems plausible to me. Though i think the character actually was upset over the fact he didnt tell her about it when they shared their sexual histories, which would be a big deal in the real world, too.

[HickoryColt]

I disagree. I'm also pretty sure he was in his 30s at the time, although I personally don't think the decade makes much difference. He was definitely aware beforehand, although I guess our definitions of "pretty far into it" may differ, but what we were shown was him chatting up the woman, while she pretended to be an exaggerated Jewish stereotype, he suspected the set up, asked his pals, they confirmed, then he thanked them and went off with her, implying they subsequently had sex, although it's not explicitly stated. I don't think he could fairly use the excuse of being able to claim he actually liked her from their chat and found out later, since it was established onscreen he saw through the pretense, I believe, before the two of them were shown to have ever left the room in which they initially met. It's not as though he actually thought she was a nice Jewish girl AND a hooker his friends bought for him.
Different women may have different thresholds, but the notion of any hooker disgusts me, and I'd definitely break off a wedding over that. There also wouldn't be enough disinfectant in the world to make feel me clean again, but that's a different story

He didn't actively seek out a prostitute himself and pay her himself. That is the point I was trying to make. I think that makes a big difference. And its not like the prostitute is going to give them some sort of "refund" or store credit if ONE of them doesn't do something with her.


I just don't seeing a guy sleeping with one prostitute as making him permanently unsuitable for marriage for life. Lots of veterans in WWII and later wars I am sure slept with prostitutes and later went on to be great husbands and fathers.

[dustylil]

Esther Rosenblatt was second season. He started dating Bernadette third season. So, only a year or two had passed.

Actually, it was less time than that. The "Esther" episode was late in the second season and Howard began dating Bernadette early in the third.

[pasandola]

HickoryColt, no one is arguing your right to date or marry prostitute customers. All I am saying is that there are enough women out there that would find the situation a dealbreaker to make the plot point plausible. And, no, the rational that "i had to sleep with her....she was already paid for!" doesnt make it any less gross, so, again, still totally plausible for bernadette to call things off. IMHO, the writers have certainly had the characters react in strange ways at times, but this isnt one of them.

[Oldernotwiser]

Thanks to WW, it wasn't just that Bernadette hadn't been told, she got to find out along with everyone on the "Internets." Yikes.

[peeayebee]

For me, the ickiest thing was learning that Howard and Raj engaged in a 3-way. Even though the guys didn't have sex with each other, merely picturing them with one woman at the same time is hard to get past.

[morakot]

Someone once said that anything you haven't done yet can be automatically disgusting.

My biggest issue with this episode was the mean-spiritedness of the humor. Howard has had his issues, but I didn't find the "roast" at all funny. And the situation that Stuart (? comicbook store owner) found himself in was just really sad.

[Shermie]

We know Penny had a rough and tumble childhood and was a tomboy, but it always seems so incongruous when she attributes her toughness to being from Nebraska. It's such a milquetoast state!

I'm assuming the writers - being from Hollywood and never actually setting foot in an actual rural area - are going by the stereotype that rural people are more rugged, as in a bunch of punch-now-think-later rednecks, as in more likely to physically kick someone's ass when trouble arises. Which Penny is, compared to the guys.

[Bad Thoughts]

I'm assuming the writers - being from Hollywood and never actually setting foot in an actual rural area - are going by the stereotype that rural people are more rugged, as in a bunch of punch-now-think-later rednecks, as in more likely to physically kick someone's ass when trouble arises. Which Penny is, compared to the guys.

When Angelenos reach for a stereotype of someone "rural", it usually is based on the person from Bakersfield: the Oklahomans and Kansans, or "Okies," who settled during the Dust Bowl.

ETA: Forgot to add that some "Okies" were also Nebraskans

Edited by Bad Thoughts, Apr 30, 2012 @ 6:39 AM.

[indeed]

Promo for next episode (5/3/12).

[LoneHaranguer]

For all the episode's flaws, I think it still had a purpose: making it clear that not only has Howard changed, but that he has become desirable (or marriage-material, if you would).

So that's two down, with Sheldon a work in progress.

No disrespect intended toward "Esther Rosenblatt" who provided Howard with The Jewish Girlfriend Experience, but I do hope he had himself tested for STDs before he began his next sexual relationship, be it with Bernadette or someone else.

IMU Vegas hookers like Esther generally follow the same health rules as those in the parts of Nevada where the profession is legal (to keep authorities from cracking down). Howard would have had to wear a condom and it's not likely she would have had anything to catch.

[RustbeltWriter]

I liked the episode but I absolutely detest what they've done with Stuart's character. Previously he was a successful small business owner who aspired to be an artist and was confident enough to go out with Penny (and even be asked in for coffee).

Now he's a schlub who can barely make ends meet and is reduced to hitting up his customers for cash.

As someone who has frequented comic book stores for many years, let me tell you; his shop is dynamite. It's clean, well stocked, brightly lit and draws a good crowd. I've been in shops like this and I've been in the proverbial dungeons that stink of desperation. No owner could have that successful of a shop and keep it up so well while sleeping in the back room.

His whole failure characterization just seems contrived and without logic.

Nice to see what they've done with Howard, though. The guy's a successful engineer who is training to be an astronaut and is about to get married to a beautiful, smart woman. He deserves an episode that shows off his growth.

[LoneHaranguer]

I liked the episode but I absolutely detest what they've done with Stuart's character. Previously he was a successful small business owner who aspired to be an artist and was confident enough to go out with Penny (and even be asked in for coffee).

Now he's a schlub who can barely make ends meet and is reduced to hitting up his customers for cash.

I live in a city home to several colleges, and, as of last year there are no comic book stores left. The last two to go were in a mall, and within walking distance of the university, and looked just like Stuart's place, so I'm not surprised he's had a downturn in business.

[beadgirl]

Making Stuart unsuccessful in his business, or just barely squeaking by, makes sense given the current state of the comic book industry. I just object to making him such a loser in every other regard too. I get they don't want him to outshine Leonard, but a socially confident and sure-of-himself Stuart who is not financially successful would contrast nicely with Raj and Leonard (and pre-Amy Sheldon [sort of] and pre-Bernadette Howard), who are successful in their careers but not with women.

[umlautless]

Stuart said he was 37 (!), so that's a little old to still be living with mommy, being only into video games and comic books, and tom-catting around.

Stuart is 37, the others are younger. In "The Recombination Hypothesis" (earlier this season) Leonard says "you're 30 years old and you live with your mother" to Howard. In the first season, Raj was one of People magazine's 30-under-30. Also this season Sheldon said he was 9 in 1989, making him 31 now. Leonard made a comment about being out of HS for 12 years in an episode in 2010, and I think (but can't confirm) that Leonard's mom didn't let him skip any grades, meaning he'd have graduated when he was 17-18, making him 29-30 in 2010, or 31-32 now.

So for me being in my early 30s, watching this, the fact that the core-4 were sort-of-frat-boys when the show started 5 years ago (mid-to-late-20s), and now Howard's getting married, Raj is feeling alone and asking his parents to set up an arranged marriage, Sheldon has fallen into a relationship with Amy resonates with the fact that 5 years ago my friends were all sort of casual, and have started to get married and fall into serious relationships. While I don't want the show to jump the shark with a baby, it would however feel organic to me, because again, a lot of my friends have started to deliberately have babies - so really the timeline in the characters lives makes sense to me.

[Sea]

In the first episode of season 2, when Sheldon can't handle keeping Penny's secret about not finishing community college and feeling too stupid to date Leonard, he stays with Howard. Mrs Wolowitz calls it a "sleepover" and Howard yells back that he's 27 years old, it's not a sleepover.

That would make him 30-31 now.

[possibilities]

They could have Howard living with his mother in a way that made him a mensch, not a loser. Multi-generational households can be based on something more substantial, like maybe he supports his mom because she needs the help. Or even just that they get along-- "Mike and Molly" has (or had? I don't still watch it) Molly and her sister both living with their mom and it's convenient to the show because it gets all the characters into situations together, but it doesn't come across like Molly's a pathetic loser, either. In fact, all three women work and have adult lives (her sister's a little bit of a burnout, but she's not made out to be pathetic like Howard or Stuart on BBT). So Big Bang Theory is choosing to make its guys losers; it's not inherent in the parent-child household set up.

[mojoween]

The more reruns I watch, the more I don't miss Amy and Bernadette. I think the series pre-them is far better.

I also realized that my favorite eps/moments are with Penny and Sheldon. Shopping at the grocery store, shopping for Leonard's present, Penny Blossoms, sick Sheldon, the Spock napkin, etc. When they were at the Best Buy-type store is quite possibly my favorite moment ever.

In last week's ep I know Stuart is sad but I still laughed when he took the money off the table. Coincidentally, in the rerun I'm watching right now he and Penny just had their date which was at Stuart's art opening. What happened to that, Chuck?

[Oldernotwiser]

The more reruns I watch, the more I don't miss Amy and Bernadette. I think the series pre-them is far better.

I also realized that my favorite eps/moments are with Penny and Sheldon. Shopping at the grocery store, shopping for Leonard's present, Penny Blossoms, sick Sheldon, the Spock napkin, etc.

Watching the same reruns you are and coming to an identical conclusion! Bernadette is kind of a kick, but I'm quite tired of Amy and the "bestie" routine.

Just saw the Spock napkin ep last week for the first time. Best Christmas Episode of Anything Ever. Loved it!

[possibilities]

in the rerun I'm watching right now he and Penny just had their date which was at Stuart's art opening. What happened to that, Chuck?

Penny murmured Leonard's name while fooling around with Stuart, and that ended it.

[vic5015]

I'm trying to decide for myself if this show is good, bad, or ugly and I'd love to hear some well-explained opinions. I'll just list my personal pros and cons.
Pros:
1. Its a comedy about self-confessed geeks/nerds. I can totally relate there.
2. Some of the jokes are genuinely funny.
3. Love the references and in-jokes.
4. Love that Leonard is a fan of B5 and Sheldon likes Dr. Who.
5. probably the only show that I can talk as a nerd and not get (virtual) blank stares.
6. they're all big-time comic book fans.
7. putting Blossom on the show was a stroke of genius. also love that bernadette(?) is a microbiologist (my degree is in biology, so YMMV).
8. Howard's sex fantasies of Starbuck! Also, his attempts at wooing women range from pathetic and sad to skeevy. nice dose of realism there (see below).
9. the idea that Leonard, Sheldon, and Raj would constantly needle Howard for only having a Master's is a hoot.
Cons:
1. laugh track. That stuff was old and tired 30 years ago. Plus, I find many of the jokes lame and unfunny. telling people to laugh at a painfully unfunny joke does not a side-splitter make.
2. its on CBS. As long as Les Moonves runs the network, I am obliged to hate anything on CBS.
3. seems to be laughing at the gang more than with them.
4. Sheldon is an obnoxious borderline douche-y know-it-all. to be fair, the show acknowledges this on a regular basis.
5. the stereotypes. oh god, the stereotypes. Hollywood nerd, Sheldon, Howard's mom, etc.
6. when its not laughing at the guys, it throws them into rather implausible relationships that make it seem like they let the creative-consultant/resident-nerd type indulge a few romatic fantasies.
7. do penny and raj serve any role besides token woman/minority person?
I'm sure I missed something. please feel free to enlighten me.

Edited by vic5015, May 2, 2012 @ 2:18 AM.

[mojoween]

Penny murmured Leonard's name while fooling around with Stuart, and that ended it.

Oh...I meant that Stuart had an art gallery opening which would intimate some measure of success. Now Stuart is living in his store and we never hear about his art at all.

[Shermie]

Stuart's professional downturn is related to the downturn in the American economy, which was mentioned on the show and on this thread. Purchases at a comic book store are frills for most people, and when unemployed, that's one of the first to go. His art career would have a similar fate.

Cons:
1. laugh track. That stuff was old and tired 30 years ago. Plus, I find many of the jokes lame and unfunny. telling people to laugh at a painfully unfunny joke does not a side-splitter make.
2. its on CBS. As long as Les Moonves runs the network, I am obliged to hate anything on CBS.
3. seems to be laughing at the gang more than with them.
4. Sheldon is an obnoxious borderline douche-y know-it-all. to be fair, the show acknowledges this on a regular basis.
5. the stereotypes. oh god, the stereotypes. Hollywood nerd, Sheldon, Howard's mom, etc.
6. when its not laughing at the guys, it throws them into rather implausible relationships that make it seem like they let the creative-consultant/resident-nerd type indulge a few romatic fantasies.
7. do penny and raj serve any role besides token woman/minority person?

1. It's a live studio audience, not a laugh track.
2. An anti-CBS bias is not the show's fault and bears little relevance to the quality of show.
3. I think we're laughing with them quite often.
4. As mentioned, Sheldon's douche-baggery is mentioned on the show frequently and he doesn't always get his way.
5. I don't see any stereotypes. They are video game, comic book nerds, but they also attract women. That's an anti-stereotype. I don't see Sheldon as a stereotype of anything, since he's unlike any real person. And his mom? She's certainly a Texan in some ways, but she also nurtured her crazy son, allowed him to indulge his scientific interests (even if she didn't agree with them), she makes racially inappropriate comments (but she's not a racist). She's open to "Shelly" being gay, although relieved that he isn't. I think Sheldon's mom is a great mix of typical Texas mom and surprising insight; and a great deal of credit goes to Laurie Metcalf.
6. Can't have it both ways - if they don't get women, they're a stereotype; if they do, it's implausible. Not all women - even hot ones - want a frat boy.
7. Penny is their main foil. She's Leonard's romantic partner, she introduced Howard to his future wife, and she helps them see the world differently than their usual one-note, scientific, geeky way.

Edited by Shermie, May 2, 2012 @ 9:18 AM.

[theatremouse]

Cons:
1. laugh track. That stuff was old and tired 30 years ago. Plus, I find many of the jokes lame and unfunny. telling people to laugh at a painfully unfunny joke does not a side-splitter make.

FYI, while I am sure the laughter is "sweetened", there is a live studio audience. I've been at multiple tapings, and things I probably would've found smile-worthy but not laugh-out-loud-funny at home on TV, did make me laugh out loud in person. I'm not sure why, but it's true. Yes, you're encouraged to laugh as much as possible to support the cast, but for the most part, it's not fake. There's something about being present in person that makes the out-loud laughs more plentiful. Being in a group full of laughing people helps too.

[Oldernotwiser]

In the earlier days of watching this show, I also found Sheldon to be pretty insufferable. But the guy grows on you, at least he has on me. He really can't help his inability to live in the "real" world anymore than he can help having an IQ of 187. But he often tries to get it right and on those occasions, he's very sympathetic.

I saw the episode last night where they had just come back from the North Pole and his friends had faked his crucial data, thus betraying him AND screwing his career. I found myself wanting to kick their selfish behinds and make Shelly a nice cup of cocoa with mini-marshmellows.

Jim Parsons is one of the more brilliant actors at physical comedy that I have ever seen. It's all the more remarkable in that Sheldon is so physically self-contained and restrained, so he's offering up such tiny expressions and movements that are still so hilarious. Reminds me of David Hyde Pierce on Frasier.

[LoneHaranguer]

I meant that Stuart had an art gallery opening which would intimate some measure of success.

We didn't really hear enough about the opening to draw any conclusions, If it was just a display of new artists, he may have been going on the advice of people who said "this is really good; you should think about selling it/being an artist". Even if his art wasn't all that good, the gallery would have given him a spot.

[Princess Aldrea]

and Sheldon likes Dr. Who.

I am skeptical of this. He did not correct Amy when she was talking about the character of Doctor Who and anyone who knows anything about the show would call him the Doctor. The fact Amy was still confused after watching an episode is odd. But Sheldon is totally the type of person to correct her and he didn't.

[Loandbehold]

And his mom? She's certainly a Texan in some ways, but she also nurtured her crazy son

Sheldon is not crazy. His mom had him tested.

In the earlier days of watching this show, I also found Sheldon to be pretty insufferable. But the guy grows on you, at least he has on me. He really can't help his inability to live in the "real" world anymore than he can help having an IQ of 187. But he often tries to get it right and on those occasions, he's very sympathetic.

I'm the other way. At the beginning, when the character was new, I could cringe at some of his behavior, but also root for him. As the show has continued on, more and more I find it difficult to watch him. This is not Jim Parsons' fault. In the hands of a lesser actor, I probably would have stopped watching by now. In large part, thanks to AFF, Sheldon recently has shown a modicum of growth, but he's still one of the most selfish characters on television (at least a show that I watch).

I saw the episode last night where they had just come back from the North Pole and his friends had faked his crucial data, thus betraying him AND screwing his career. I found myself wanting to kick their selfish behinds and make Shelly a nice cup of cocoa with mini-marshmellows.

Besides having Sheldon behave completely out of character - there is absolutely no way he would publicly announce results of such an important experiment without going through a rigorous testing process* - I was annoyed that the boys didn't kill him. It's one thing to be with Sheldon when you can actually go elsewhere and see other people; it's entirely another to be with him for three months and unable to get away from him for long. Yes, he invited them to accompany him, and they should have realized what that meant, but that doesn't give him the excuse to not try and tone down his Sheldonistic behavior either. It's called compromise. Someone with a 187 IQ should look up the meaning and apply it every now and then.

* When scientists at CERN thought they might have proof of a faster-than-light neutrino last year, they specifically stated that they were not confirming its existence and had to do more research/testing to see if it actually occurred. It subsequently was reported that the neutrino did not travel faster-than-light. Sheldon did not make any such equivocation when he sent out his e-mail. On that point, he provided a huge assistance in screwing his own career.