Jump to content

S3 - Julia: Hell Yeah, Waffle House!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

325 replies to this topic

#301

potoroo

potoroo

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 17, 2007 @ 8:41 AM

when all of the other "Mean Girls" were against her.

I can understand though, to a certain degree, the resentment of other contestants who were up against somebody with no formal culinary training whatsoever, whereas everybody else had been to culinary school and some even graduated from 4-year culinary degree programs. Some people like Melissa had even worked as instructors at culinary schools. I had the impression that most of the time they were very willing to teach and coach Julia whenever she asked something.

Ramsay's offer to send Julia to culinary school surely meant that he was impressed by her trying hard, but it also meant that Julia BADLY needed some formal culinary training. She got the best possible deal out of that competition, and judging from what we saw in the finale, she really didn't know how to appreciate it.

Edited by potoroo, Aug 17, 2007 @ 8:52 AM.


#302

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 17, 2007 @ 4:28 PM

This is not true, Rock never resented her and I don't think Joanne did either, in fact Joanne stuck up for her when all of the other "Mean Girls" were against her.


Rock never worked with Julia until really late in the game, so that doesn't count. And Joanne was quick to slam Julia when she was trying to explain why she shouldn't be eliminated in the first episode. And according to Julia, everyone became friendly to her AFTER the first episode. There is no real evidence that they mocked her background after that, and no evidence that they ever did that to her face. So the whole concept of "Mean Girls" seems to be greatly exagerrated.

#303

Hunter Rose

Hunter Rose

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 11:14 AM

Well, according to one interview with Bonnie, Julia ruined a supply of veal
loins by falsely claiming that she knew how to butterfly them. That's at least one
example of Julia turning out a subpar product that didn't make it to air.

"Falsely"? Was she lying or was she mistaken?

Also, on the epiosde with the trash incident, Julia pretty much thought that she was going
to be up for elimination before anyone else suggested it, and didn't really protest
her place there. That tells me that she knew that she screwed up in ways that hadn't
made it to air (e.g., slowing them down in prep). Otherwise, why would she be so quick to volunteer?

Because she'd been treated like a goat by all the others and knew they were going to pick her no matter what.


when all of the other "Mean Girls" were against her.

I can understand though, to a certain degree, the resentment of other contestants who were up against somebody with no formal culinary training whatsoever, whereas everybody else had been to culinary school and some even graduated from 4-year culinary degree programs.

But there's no reason for resentment, unless that contestant is receiving favorable treatment during the judging. They should have just trusted for skill to win out.

#304

OmahaMtLion

OmahaMtLion

    Stalker

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 11:27 AM

They may have resented having to help Julia more than they should have instead of being able to just focus on their own work. If I was under the gun trying to get my own prep work done and I had to stop to answer questions from Julia about things that a fellow cheftestant should be coming in the competition already knowing, I can see resenting that. It's a nuisance and a distraction.

ETA: While I don't believe that, at the end of the day, Ramsay would have given Julia the win just for the sake of good television, given that he obviously was of the opinion that she was unqualified due to her lack of culinary education, the other cheftestants may have noticed that Ramsay seemed very fond of Julia and impressed with her abilities. I wouldn't have been shocked to see her put through to the Final 2 (Waffle House Underdog vs. Executive Chef!) and the others may have feared that she'd slide on through with the assistance of the greater expertise that they took the time to acquire before going on HK.

Edited by OmahaMtLion, Aug 18, 2007 @ 11:41 AM.


#305

justtee1

justtee1

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 1:40 PM

If Julia is to be criticized for her attitude during the finale, I don't see why the other girls should get a pass for their snobbish, elitist attitude towards her. They treated her as if she were a moron in the kitchen, simply because she was a Waffle House cook. For all her lack of "fine dining experience", Julia was still a decent cook, she got the food out (and saved the red team's asses in a couple of instances), and many of her dishes were well received even if they weren't all that sophisticated. Aside from her mistakes at the garnish station during one dinner service, it's not like she was continously hurting her team like Josh or Melissa. In my opinion, the "mean girls" concept is not exaggerated, and there was no justification for their attitude towards her.

Edited by justtee1, Aug 18, 2007 @ 1:41 PM.


#306

LuckyBlackCat

LuckyBlackCat

    Channel Surfer

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 3:10 PM

Julia was treated as a second class citizen from the start. She was ignored and belittled by the "mean girls." I see the last episode as Julia saying "how do you like it NOW that you need me?" After Bonnie picked her after MElissa, I can see where Julia's attitude came from. Julia helped the women win many challenges. MElissa screwed up every challenge on* any team. Julia was our sweetheart and the one we were all pulling for to do well. I just can't let a few little snarky comments make me un-like her. As for the gift of culinary school, Julia strikes me as someone who won't believe it until she is standing in the class. All in all, I don't think it was just sour grapes on her part, but a culmination of the whole experience for her.

*on, not in

Edited by LuckyBlackCat, Aug 18, 2007 @ 3:12 PM.


#307

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 4:16 PM

"Falsely"? Was she lying or was she mistaken?


If you claim that you know how to butterfly a veal loin, and it turns out that you don't know, then it's a false claim.

But there's no reason for resentment, unless that contestant is receiving favorable treatment during the judging.


Or because she's slowing them down.

If Julia is to be criticized for her attitude during the finale, I don't see why the other girls should get a pass for their snobbish, elitist attitude towards her.


Again, Julia stated that all the contestants were really friendly to her after the first episode. Those were her own words.

For all her lack of "fine dining experience", Julia was still a decent cook, she got the food out (and saved the red team's asses in a couple of instances), and many of her dishes were well received even if they weren't all that sophisticated.


Yes, by high schoolers, and by Army people who were used to eating in mess halls. But we never heard Ramsay say "I would pay for that dish!" like he did for Elsie, or "This is great, we're going to put this on the menu!" like he did for Bonnie. And once again, how much would you honestly pay for Julia's plain plate of fish & chips, which used four times as much sea bass as a regular Ramsay dish? Or for that matter, anything else that she prepared on the show?

Aside from her mistakes at the garnish station during one dinner service, it's not like she was continously hurting her team like Josh or Melissa.


Sure, but why compare Julia to contestants who were eliminated even sooner?

After Bonnie picked her after MElissa, I can see where Julia's attitude came from. Julia helped the women win many challenges. MElissa screwed up every challenge on* any team. Julia was our sweetheart and the one we were all pulling for to do well.


Bonnie couldn't bank her chances of winning on the idea that Julia was a "sweetheart." Especially when Julia didn't end up acting that way in the final episode. Keep in mind that Rock didn't pick Julia second either, he picked Vinnie. As for Melissa, Bonnie has stated in interviews that Melissa proved herself as an invaluable resource guide throughout the show. Given Melissa's experience and training in fine dining restaurants, and given Bonnie's lack of restaurant experience, it seems like a valid justification.

As for the gift of culinary school, Julia strikes me as someone who won't believe it until she is standing in the class.


And if that were true, then is would suggest a huge character flaw to me. It shows a complete inability to put your trust in others. If you can't even trust your boss, who's one of the most well respected chefs in the entire world, then how are you going to trust your fellow team mates, who are strangers who you've never met before? Moreover, if Julia can't even count on attending culinary school after Ramsay already promised it, then why in the world would would she have been counting on being in the final two, which had never been promised to her, ever?

All in all, I don't think it was just sour grapes on her part, but a culmination of the whole experience for her.


Sour grapes occurs when you are unable to win a prize, and you conclude it doesn't matter because the prize must have been terrible ("the grapes were probably sour anyway"). Julia was simply being jealous and ungrateful.

#308

justtee1

justtee1

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 18, 2007 @ 9:08 PM

Or because she's slowing them down.


In how many instances was Julia slowing down her team? Not very many that I can recall. More often than not, she was an asset to her team, not a liability.

Again, Julia stated that all the contestants were really friendly to her after the first episode. Those were her own words.


It still doesn't negate the snobbish attitude and poor treatment she received from the girls initially, nor does it justify it, IMO. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes, by high schoolers, and by Army people who were used to eating in mess halls. But we never heard Ramsay say "I would pay for that dish!" like he did for Elsie, or "This is great, we're going to put this on the menu!" like he did for Bonnie. And once again, how much would you honestly pay for Julia's plain plate of fish & chips, which used four times as much sea bass as a regular Ramsay dish? Or for that matter, anything else that she prepared on the show?


But did the customers enjoy her food? She had no control over the customers she's cooking for in any given challenge, but she could control the quality of the dishes she prepared, and she did. Her dishes may not have been "classy", but at least she wasn't putting out crap. Her steak entree wound up being the most popular item during one dinner service, with all the steaks cooked perfectly and nothing sent back.

At any rate, I'm not debating whether Julia is qualified enough to run a fine dining establishment, or that many of her dishes were sophisticated enough to be on a fine dining menu. She clearly isn't and they clearly weren't. But the talent is there, and Chef Ramsay obviously saw something in Julia to offer to pay her way through culinary school. I've seen nothing to suggest to me that Julia is not grateful for the offer she's received from Chef Ramsay. I believe he's a man of his word, and in spite of the wishes of some viewers, I doubt that he will rescind the offer. It will be up to Julia to decide whether or not she'll take advantage of it.


ETA:

Sure, but why compare Julia to contestants who were eliminated even sooner?


It's a fair comparison to make. Two contestants, both with more fine dining experience than she had, managed to screw up time after time. Melissa, for all her extensive fine dining experience, couldn't even cook shrimp properly when Bonnie was counting on her to do so! It was also Melissa that produced that sad, dried out turd of a duck breast they presented to that couple (which she had the nerve to try to pin on Julia). A lot of emphasis has been placed on Julia's lack of fine dining experience as justification for the way she was treated by the other girls. Meanwhile, other contestants who had much more fine dining experience wound up being bigger liabilities to their teams than she ever was.

Edited by justtee1, Aug 19, 2007 @ 6:39 AM.


#309

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 19, 2007 @ 2:48 AM

In how many instances was Julia slowing down her team? Not very many that I can recall. More often than not, she was an asset to her team, not a liability.


From the comments of the other contestants, this most likely took place during prep, when they had to help Julia get caught up on the materials.

It still doesn't negate the snobbish attitude and poor treatment she received from the girls initially, nor does it justify it, IMO.


I'd sooner forgive someone who acted poorly in the beginning than I would someone who acted poorly at the end. There's a certain point where you shouldn't be able to use first impressions as an excuse, and I think that Julia already crossed it.

But did the customers enjoy her food? She had no control over the customers she's cooking for in any given challenge, but she could control the quality of the dishes she prepared, and she did. Her dishes may not have been "classy", but at least she wasn't putting out crap. Her steak entree wound up being the most popular item during one dinner service, with all the steaks cooked perfectly and nothing sent back.


Steak is a pretty simpe dish to master. There's not exactly much you can get wrong when making a basic steak. None of them got sent back, because there would be very little for the customers to complain about, that wouldn't get caught at the pass. Unfortunately, this also means that it's something that you can get just about anywhere, and for a much lower price.

I've seen nothing to suggest to me that Julia is not grateful for the offer she's received from Chef Ramsay. I believe he's a man of his word, and in spite of the wishes of some viewers, I doubt that he will rescind the offer. It will be up to Julia to decide whether or not she'll take advantage of it.


The problem was that when Julia entered the confessional post-elimination, she was more concerned about about lamenting her loss than being grateful about her gain. Then when Julia returned to the kitchen, Julia was still all in tears and telling Ramsay that this was the low point, rather than being overjoyed to see the man who gave her an unprecendented opprotunity. And then there's the fact that she complained about how, "I don't know why everyone else came here, but I came here to win!" While ignoring the fact that she did win, and that she won far more many other people who placed much higher than her.

#310

jhlipton

jhlipton

    Fanatic

Posted Aug 19, 2007 @ 4:27 PM

Well, according to one interview with Bonnie, Julia ruined a supply of veal loins by falsely claiming that she knew how to butterfly them. That's at least one example of Julia turning out a subpar product that didn't make it to air. (Emphasis mine)


Yeah, that's a reliable source. I don't believe it. I don't even recall veal loin being served. Ever.

#311

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 19, 2007 @ 6:46 PM

Yeah, that's a reliable source. I don't believe it.


And why do you consider Bonnie to be an unreliable source on the matter? Be specific. Why do you you think that she would go out of her way to make that type of story? What would Bonnie have to gain? Bonnie doesn't lament her loss -- not in the least. She fully admits that Rock beat her fair and square. She doesn't have to resort to lying in order to explain what happened.

People have been asking why the other contestants would be so annoyed by Julia's lack of culinary knowledge. THey ask for examples where Bonnie would have slowed them down. The other contestants have provided their explainations, citing specific examples. You might not believe them, but the stories seem to be fairly consistent with Julia's general level of inexperience that she's shown on the show.

I have a hard time believing that Julia's lack of culinary experience wouldn't have resulted in any slowdowns during prep. I also have a hard time believing that everyone was being hard on Julia for absolutely no reason, and that they would go out of their way to fabricate stories that were completely untrue. If everyone claims that Julia's well-established lack of culinary knowledge slowed them down, then I'm inclined to believe that maybe it slowed them down.

I don't even recall veal loin being served. Ever.


If you look at Bonnie calling out her first order, veal is isted among the entrees.

#312

Hunter Rose

Hunter Rose

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 20, 2007 @ 2:28 PM

"Falsely"? Was she lying or was she mistaken?

If you claim that you know how to butterfly a veal loin, and it turns out that you don't know, then it's a false claim.

That's my point. The use of the term is ambiguous. Saying "I know how to butterfly veal" with the expectation that 'it must be just like I butterfly chicken or <whatever>' and discovering there are subtleties you weren't aware of is different from saying "I know how to butterfly veal" when you don't have a clue to begin with. One use is deliberately dishonest; the other isn't. The use of the word "False" implies deliberate dishonesty.

#313

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 20, 2007 @ 5:20 PM

false [fawls] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, fals·er, fals·est, adverb
–adjective
1. not true or correct; erroneous: a false statement


If I insist to my friend that I know how to make sushi, and it turns out that I don't, then that would be a false claim, even though I honestly thought I would be able to figure it out. Either you know how to do something, or you don't.

#314

Hunter Rose

Hunter Rose

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 20, 2007 @ 11:25 PM

false

false (fôls) adjective
falser, falsest
1.Contrary to fact or truth: false tales of bravery.
2.Deliberately untrue: delivered false testimony under oath.
3.Arising from mistaken ideas: false hopes of writing a successful novel.
4.Intentionally deceptive: a suitcase with a false bottom; false promises.
5.Not keeping faith; treacherous: a false friend. See synonyms at faithless.
6.Not genuine or real: false teeth; false documents.
7.Erected temporarily, as for support during construction.
8.Resembling but not accurately or properly designated as such: a false thaw in January; the false dawn peculiar to the tropics.
9.Music. Of incorrect pitch.
10.Unwise; imprudent: Don't make a false move or I'll shoot.

adverb
In a treacherous or faithless manner: play a person false.


[Middle English fals, from Old French, from Latin falsus, from past participle of fallere, to deceive.]
- false´ly adverb
- false´ness noun

#315

TWoP Nikita

TWoP Nikita

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Aug 21, 2007 @ 1:34 AM

All right, that's enough definitions and discussions of the word "false." This stopped being about the show a while ago. Leave "false" behind and get back to discussion of Julia. Thanks.

Edited by TWoP Nikita, Aug 21, 2007 @ 1:34 AM.


#316

traptc

traptc

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Aug 21, 2007 @ 1:37 AM

Edited on request.

My observation is that Julia claimed that she was capable of something, and it turns out that she wasn't. She has a habit of not knowing her own limitations, which has hurt her, and which can hurt her group. This is the sort of thing that can be learned in culinary school. This is also something that Julia could learn on her own, but hasn't.

Edited by traptc, Aug 21, 2007 @ 1:42 AM.


#317

Hunter Rose

Hunter Rose

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 21, 2007 @ 10:57 AM

Can you point us to the Bonnie interview you mentioned earlier?

#318

potoroo

potoroo

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 21, 2007 @ 12:24 PM

Was it the Fansofrealitytv interview?

#319

McClard

McClard

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 27, 2007 @ 12:53 AM

As far as something Bonnie said about Julia re: the veal loin supposed incident, just because it never made it to camera doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I doubt that Bonnie would say it in a published interview knowing the producers, GR, and the other contestants could refute it and make her out to be a liar.

Also as far as the mean girls, I have to agree, yes there was a lot of "Waffle House" talk in the confessional, but I don't remember it happening a lot to her face, in fact, I don't remember it to her face at all, but I didn't see the first show.
And I do remember her saying everyone was friendly, etc.

So obviously it wasn't a daily deal where they were dissing her abilities to her face or in her earshot. I'm sure, with her lack of culinary knowlege that she DID have to have more help in prep and cooking methods.
It only makes sense that she would need it, because she didn't have the experience that the others had.

#320

nappyroots100

nappyroots100

    Video Archivist

Posted Sep 7, 2007 @ 9:53 AM

Isn't Bonnie the one who threw out a whole pan of monkfish because she thought "it smelled funny"? I wonder how that interrupted prep...

#321

putigger

putigger

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Oct 14, 2007 @ 8:04 PM

I'm just now watching this season and wow am I bleary eyed from the marathon! After watching the Finale, it seems to me that Julia very simply does not respect Bonnie. I think she would have worked differently under Jennifer or Rock. Maybe it's because Bonnie represented herself or was presented as a "Nanny with a good palate" and certainly portrayed herself to have been as lost as Julia on multiple occassions. Bonnie suggested the steak and eggs and then said how do we cook that, didn't check the deliveries, etc. and had similar shortcoming and mistakes all the way through ordering her food for her final service. Bonnie and Julia had different skill sets and different limitations, but they seemed to balance each other out. Where Bonnie had more refined culinary knowledge (bless her palate's heart), Julia had more practical experience in how to run a kitchen, albeit not a fine dining kitchen (yet). So it probably felt worse for Julia to come in third to Bonnie over Jennifer, especially since Bonnie played the Bambi in distress/spoiled lazy girl role so much. On the other hand, I think Jennifer recovered well from the gross spaghetti situation as far as showing her capabilities and leadership and earning the respect of the other competitors, but of course that horrible misstep made it impossible for her to get to the final two in the end, hence a final two of Bonnie and Rock. Finally, when asked by GR about what they would have done differently, Rock said he would not have picked Josh if he had a choice. It was notable that Bonnie did not and could not say the Julia had messed her up and she would have picked someone else, but rather that she would have been more careful ordering her food. So in spite of Julia's honesty in her feelings, the only thing that messed Bonnie up was her own limitations/ineptitude and keeping Melissa on pasta when she was messing up on the prawns so much.

#322

ReiMehari

ReiMehari

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female

Posted Nov 14, 2007 @ 1:37 AM

I miss Julia...even if she was a wreck in the end.

#323

pk124

pk124

    Fanatic

Posted Mar 26, 2008 @ 5:21 PM

GR Still Has Good Stuff To Say About Julia

Access Hollywood: So first things first — Julia, where is the waffle-house girl now?

Gordon Ramsay: Amazing lady, extraordinary talent. She went on to culinary school. Don’t think you’ve seen the last of this lady. She’s going to come back, not too sure where she’s going to pop up, but I think she’s going to go on and become something quite serious.

Amazing isn’t it when you find that kind of talent cooking inside a waffle house, that has the most amazing taste that’s far greater than executive chefs she was cooking alongside. But trust me, you have not seen the end of her.

AH: Did you keep in touch with her?

Ramsay: I do. I work hard making sure I keep in touch with all of (the former contestants) to be honest.


Good for her.

#324

Nysha

Nysha

    Fanatic

Posted Mar 28, 2008 @ 9:57 PM

I was just thinking about her today and came her to see if she had ever made it to culinary school.

#325

ProfCrash

ProfCrash

    Stalker

Posted Mar 29, 2008 @ 5:19 PM

GRrrr says that she is in Culinary School right now.

#326

CalAggie

CalAggie

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 9, 2008 @ 12:14 AM

Glad to read this. I was worrying that she would not go. I wonder any chance of her popping up this season as a special guest?