Jump to content

6-21: "Made In America" 2007.06.10 (recap)


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

3382 replies to this topic

#451

viking91

viking91

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

"What was with the shirt change at the end. Tony was not, definitely not, wearing the same shirt when he walked into the diner as when he was sitting in the diner. Weird and ambiguous. Not a good combination. Check your TiVo--It's definitely not the same shirt."

Ok, so along these lines, as i've posted above. what is up with this? does anyone recall the name of the restaurant carmela says they decided on, and is the sign visible in the exterior shots of the diner? are meadows plates nj/ny?

#452

cloudwatcher

cloudwatcher

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

I watch two seasons of bullshit episodes where nothing happens so I can watch the big finale - where nothing happens? David Chase and his omnipotent, egomaniacal self can shove it. All of the hyper-praise about his "brilliance" needs to be re-evaluated. No one brilliant would put that piece of shit on the screen. It was nothing more than a big fuck you to those of us who paid his bills for 9 years.

#453

fkafl

fkafl

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

I'm going to convince myself that Tony died, hence the black screen.
Yes; that is what happened. Now hopefully I can sleep tonight and not think about this again until tomorrow.

#454

CerebralFitness

CerebralFitness

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

I especially liked the part when ...


Well put.

And did anyone see the cardboard cut out of Sil going to the bathroom? His finger moved...but why?!


Anyway, I was really worried about that cat. I figured since Chase always wants to remind us these are bad people, why not have Paulie kill it. Luckily he was just gonna whack it with a broom.

Never thought creepy little Butchie would've gone "pragmatical", to most likely quote Little Carmine.

#455

retronaut

retronaut

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

Chase told Entertainment Weekly a little while back, "There'll be people who will like the finale and people who won't like it, but I think that if people look at what the show was, or could even watch the whole story again, they'll understand what the ending is."

At the risk of repeating myself, I think the message is that life goes on for Tony Soprano, but with consequences of one form or another on the near horizon (the gun charge), or just around any corner...literally.

#456

moblawyah

moblawyah

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

I'm guesssing they were in that safe house for more than one night and someone got some sheets and a blanket.

Or not. Really, which one makes more sense when you consider none of the characters - especially AJ - was acting anywhere like they were in the prior episode? Tony died in the safehouse bed and all of that bullshit was a death dream.

Edited by moblawyah, Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:58 PM.


#457

kentpope

kentpope

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:56 PM

Perfect ending.

And the cat RULED.

#458

Philomath

Philomath

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:57 PM

You want an ending? Here's an ending.

Cut to Paulie driving away in a convertible with one of the Bing girls. Caption: "Senator Paulie Blutarsky, Washington, D.C."

Loved it. Absolutely loved it. The tension at the end of the show was almost a physical presence. It totally made me feel the way Tony must feel every day - you never know who might be the one that ends it all for you.

#459

googuse

googuse

    Video Archivist

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:57 PM

I'm a little miffled...

#460

EasternBird

EasternBird

    Channel Surfer

  • Gender:Female

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:57 PM

does anyone recall the name of the restaurant carmela says they decided on, and is the sign visible in the exterior shots of the diner?


It's Holsten's, in Bloomfield, NJ.

#461

richie246

richie246

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:57 PM

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public".
Chase opened the 6th season with that line. Today he proved it.
He has nothing but utter contempt for all of us. Yes, he got the last laugh but I am very pissed. That was such an F-you ending. Maybe he did it that way so he could be possible do a movie but that would be worse b/c then he is a sell out. All of the investment I (and most of you here) have spent in the series and he screws us all. There is no way he planned THAT for 3 years. The greatest show in television history DESERVES AN ENDING!!! not David Chase trying to be cute and think he is SO smart. Im disgusted.

Edited by richie246, Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:58 PM.


#462

clancy25

clancy25

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:57 PM

So with the supposed three alternate endings, does that mean they filmed a blank screen three times?

The problem I have with the "life goes on" theory is that they clearly set some big things up in this episode, like the fact that Carlo flipped and the NJ gang is apparently under serious legal threat now. Why arbitrarily stop now? If that's the case, why not stop at last week's episode? Or the one before that? Then we could all have our little fantasies about how the war went. I didn't need another episode to just to see AJ become an even bigger moron and burn up his own car, or Chase giving his daughter something else to add to her resume.

#463

sissyphus

sissyphus

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:58 PM

If the famiglia is dead, at least Tony will be spared the big expense (and the wretched excess) of Meadow's wedding.

#464

Iwantmynameback

Iwantmynameback

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

I agree. Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant.

the man has the sickest sense of humor on the planet, yet is also a fantastic storyteller and dramatist.

this will go down in TV history, for sure..

#465

meredithand

meredithand

    Video Archivist

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

are meadows plates nj/ny?


Yes, they were New Jersey plates, IIRC.

#466

montferrat

montferrat

    Fanatic

  • Location:Connecticut
  • Interests:Hiking, Swimming, European history, Gay Spanish Films, Coffee Table Books, and Bad Slash Fiction! Oh yeah, and TV too!

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

After refelecting an hour and reading these posts, I have to agree with the few people who said the black screen was Tony shot to death.
His conciousness ended right there. At that moment. And that was the end of the show.

#467

jpcdolphan

jpcdolphan

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

his visit with Uncle Junior (which showed that Gandolfini is a master of subtlety)


I agree with you on this one. It seemed like Tony somewhat made peace with Uncle Junior (and himself) about the shooting. At the beginning, it almost seemed like he was skeptical of Junior's condition and was almost trying to trap him and expose himself as a fraud. By the end, it seemed that things clicked for Tony that, yeah, Junior was in his own little world and the shooting really was, for lack of a better word, accidental.

#468

CerebralFitness

CerebralFitness

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

AT first I was, like a lot of people, WTF? BUt the more I think about it, the more I like it. It's over, that's it, goodbye. One question, though--what is the significance of "Made in America?"


I mentioned a little while back in this glorious clusterfuck of rage and love that one of the diner patrons had a USA hat on. Also, there were America flags all over those gas stations. That's all I got. I'm sure someone's got something better.

#469

marty118

marty118

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

There have been some comments that viewers seem to fall into two camps:
1. Those who wanted a violent/definitive ending
2. Those who loved the blackout

Just wanted to be clear in case I wasn't before that I myself fall into a third group:

3. Those are fine with a nothing-resolved ending, but who still didn't like the blackout as a cinematic device

I didn't need to know exactly what happened to anyone. But the blackout demanded a response from the audience that I think was inappropriate except in either a totally first-person story or a "and then the world blew up" story.

My criticism of the blackout isn't that it leaves the ending ambiguous--it's that using that particular way to reach that kind of ambiguity is inconsistent with the previous storytelling for this series.

#470

lilcledus

lilcledus

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

The fact that people are finding meaning in the ending doesn't necessarily mean it was a great or appropriate ending. Chase could have done a lot of things, and there could be meaning found, but that doesn't mean every possible ending is right. It just feels like a very canned message that will make the show seem very cerebral, but doesn't actually have to do with anything we've seen before.

Also, if Chase wanted to show that life can end without any notice, why didn't he just have 60 minutes of black, or just not create the final at all. There have been books about how life is tenuous, but that doesn't mean that they just end abruptly. David Chase could have sent his message through more than just a black screen. The fact is, not knowing what happens to the family is unsatisfying, and in that sense, the episode was a failure.

#471

Amyspaulding

Amyspaulding

    Loyal Viewer

  • Location:the RGV

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

Ok, still processing, still posting.

I thought the cat was a good way of playing off of Paulie. Paulie hated Chris. The cat loved Chris. Paulie hates cat.
The ending? I think it's significant that everyone-EVERYONE-was waiting for guns to start blazing in that diner. Everyone walking in/out and around that diner was a potential hitter. Maybe we're supposed to ponder how being "Made in America" means that everyone is suspect in that diner (the guy at the bar, walking in in front of AJ, the 2 guys at the end"...its a reflection of us.
The cut off at the end? Choose your own Adventure? I dont think so. I think it's a play on our anticipation and what we expect from an uberviolent show. I think Chase did mindfuck us all and he's laughing all the way to the bank.
Also, I still think the title refers to Phil being run over by a Ford.

That's all for now. I have to sleep on this.

#472

Muffinista

Muffinista

    Video Archivist

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

I loved it. I can't believe I am saying this, but I did. It was simply perfect. I don't need the rope. I may need a cigarette, though.

#473

PaperBagHead

PaperBagHead

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:00 PM

I live around the corner from Holsten's (it's spelled that way but everyone calls it Holstein's) and the rumor was that there was going to be a scene of Meadow running across the street. Naturally, I assumed she'd be running FROM the ice cream parlor, not TOWARDS it.

#474

msrobins

msrobins

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:00 PM

The cat is Schrodinger's Cat. Tony did not die.

#475

HickoryColt

HickoryColt

    Stalker

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:00 PM

This is tempting, but I think it's false. Who ordered the hit and why? Phil's dead. Butchie is a businessman and made an agreement not just with Tony, but also Lil' Carmine. Business wins -- that's one of the messages of this ending.

The spoilers suggesting an insane personal revenge motive for Butchie are clearly wrong. He was fed up with Phil.

Carlo is in WP. The Russian's grudge is with Paulie.

Tony's only enemy at the moment is the federal government, which is going to grind him down like his mother ground down Johnny-boy, not shoot him in a diner.



I don't have that answer, but again, going back to the quote with Bobby in the boat, you don't see it coming. This ending fits with the quote. We don't know WHO it came from. Heck it could have been Paulie. The quote doesn't just refer to LITERALLY seeing the person doing it but also figuratively, who knows who did it and why. Its from out of nowhere.

I'm sticking with that line of thinking unless a movie comes out to contradict me, which I seriously doubt will ever happen.

And for the record, I would have seriouly been pissed myself if Chase had wrapped it up like Sex in the City, St Elsewehere, Newhart or any other 80s sitcom that doesn't come close to the intracate nature of this show. ANYBODY could write that kind of ending.

#476

VNutt

VNutt

    Fanatic

  • Location:Chicago NW Burbs

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:00 PM

One question, though--what is the significance of "Made in America?"


One theory...... as they are sitting there in the diner and you see all the people around.... working dude in a baseball cap, the scouts, young couple on a date, guy who went in to the bathroom.... and then the Sopranos. Like the rest of the people, a very typical, very American family. Who happens to be in organized crime. Which became a new art form when it came to America. It's the American Mafia.... only possible in this country.

Other thoughts on Agent Harris "We just might win this thing".... was he rooting for Tony????

#477

Leatherstocking

Leatherstocking

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:01 PM

I know the board is going fast so you probably missed it, but a couple of us have said the same thing, that we would have been just fine with an ending where Meadow just walks in, sits down, Carm says something about her getting married soon or changes or whatever and Tony shrugs and says "Life goes on."

No drama, no resolution, but, in my opinion, that would have been a very satisfying and complete ending for the series.


Which really would have put the show in a league with the Brady Bunch. That ending is definitely way up on the standard cliche list.

All I can think about is just how hard it was to think of anything not as cliched as that.

I like the peril, hanging-by-a-thread analyses that people keep giving - much more true to the rest of the show that some platitude from Tony at the end (Tony's platitudes irritate the hell out of me and Paulie).

#478

chitowngirl

chitowngirl

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:01 PM

It seemed like Tony somewhat made peace with Uncle Junior (and himself) about the shooting.

Yes, and JG really nailed that scene. I almost started crying when he had tears in his eyes as he reminded Uncle Junior that he used to run the NJ crew.

#479

dsomaha888

dsomaha888

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:01 PM

Still, we did see three potential endings, though; we saw him "80-90%" getting indicted, we saw him potentially getting whacked in the diner, and we saw Junior, the former boss of North Jersey, alone, demented, and estranged from his family (except those seeking cash). What else could there be for Tony?


Well said and I that's pretty much how I saw it. The rest of his life will be spent looking over his shoulder until the end. Whether that end comes in a gunshot, in a prison cell, or in a nursing home years later - it's over.

And I think AJ's reminder to Tony about "remember the good times" was like something Tony might remember as he's dying.

#480

coolmom

coolmom

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:01 PM

We deserved an ending. We've sort of had endings to lots of convoluted storylines on this show . . . I think that Phil's innocent grandkids in the car running over his head was significant . . . the younger generation kills the older one without even meaning to . . . Meadow and Anthony Jr. are killing their dad's generation by not only NOT being in the business but being in the business(es) in direct opposition to the mafia lifestyle- being a lawyer and a soldier . . .