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#541

SnideAsides

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Posted Dec 20, 2011 @ 12:16 AM

Seriously. When was the last time we had a cryptic clue that wasn't "here's what we swiped from Wikipedia, off you go" or "translate this FOREIGN LANGUAGE"? I mean, I get that it's hard to come up with cryptic clues that are actually challenging and all, but why can't they have more photo clues or bring back the "national flag" clue they did in the earlier seasons or give them an MP3 player with some country's national anthem on it or something? Even a simple "go to the tallest building in this city" would be a nice compromise between the "go here, stupid" clues and the Google-necessary clues.

Seems like poor race design to have a NEL followed by airport bunching.


With the non-elimination penalties, I prefer it to having a leg without bunching after a NEL. The Speed Bump will take up time and is likely to put them behind anyway (at least, if they're structured the way this season's were), so the bunching doesn't really do anything except tighten the field and stop teams from winning every leg. Which, given the bunch-free seasons have resulted in multiple teams winning pretty much half of the race, can only be a good thing.

On an unrelated note, I'd really, really love to see them bring back the Detours. It seems they've fallen out of favour in the last few seasons (TAR13 had one on every leg), but to be cut down to only EIGHT shown Detours in the entire season, compared to THIRTEEN Road Blocks - and pretty much 14, with how the map task worked out (I'd argue it actually would have been a Road Block, with the typing task and its "Who gives a damn?" hint acting as a decoy to get rid of the person everybody wanted to do the memory task, had an emergency rerouting not resulted in the two-Road-Block Bangkok leg) - is ridiculous. Yes, I know "Bodybuilding Posedown" was a Detour with something like "Firefighting Hosedown" as the unseen alternate option, but still. To have three legs with a Road Block and no Detour AND to have a two-Road-Block leg in the same season is horrendous game design, especially when of the five Road Blocks in question - proverb, water music, spirit house, statue, typing - only the spirit house task was really any good.
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#542

The Australian

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Posted Dec 21, 2011 @ 6:27 PM

I do agree about the Detours, though I suspect that the budget for the show is slowly beginning to crunch them out along with the Fast Forwards.

Unfortunately it seems that many teams all opt for the same choice a lot of the time these days also - if it wasn't for Marcus & Amani in this past season, things would be even more lopsided in that respect than they already were!

I actually do think TPTB did a reasonable job this past season with making the clues (and the clue holders) a little more esoteric than had been the case. Anything that rewards intelligence rather than straight athleticism can only be a good thing for TAR.
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#543

Isuzu

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:25 AM

So, as a Belgian, I wanted to chime on the three episodes partially spent on my country's soil.

First, I was overjoyed halfway in the Denmark leg, because I could see the racers doing interviews in front of the nightly-lit Atomium so I knew right away they were coming in my country next.

The European Parliament is actually right next to my former highschool, so I know the area pretty well. I can't remember what time they arrived in Brussels, but without traffic, the ride from the train station to the European parliament is like 15 minutes (probably less because they can take tunnels). They then went to the Concert Noble which is a gorgeous Ball Room (I went there two or three times to attend Student Balls) practically next to the parliament, like, walking distance. I had to snicker when I saw they jumped in their taxi to go there. Does anyone know what was the other side of the detour that was edited out.

I also was really confused when they mentioned they had to go to Park Elisabeth. I was like "...where?". And then I understood. See the huge building we can see in the background? That's the Basilic of Koekelberg. It didn't surprise me that one of the taxi drivers didn't know where to go. Nobody uses the name Park Elisabeth, we would say go to the Park around the Basilic (which is huge and visible from far away). My mother didn't know the place either.

Also, the taxis in Brussels are CRAZY expensive. They must have received a huge amount of money.

A bit of creative editing when Marcus and Amani are driving at the beginning of the second episode. We can see them lost somewhere (probably in Anderlecht or Koekelberg), then there's a shot of a street going downhill, then back to their car. That street is actually Belliard Street, which is where the Concert Noble and the parliament are located, not where the Basilic is. I loved how the national rain was puring though. It has been a particularly rainy summer here, but rain is really frequent in Belgium anyway.

Gent is a fine choice of a city to go next. It's medieval and beautiful, and not too far away from Brussels. I thought they would go to Bruges, which is gorgeous, but Gent is a fine city too.

Making them drive in Belgium is evil though. The cities' names change depending on the language spoken in the region you are. So Gent would become Gand and Brussels would become Bruxelles. They were lucky because there are some devious ones (Tournai/Doornik, Mons/Bergen, Anvers/Antwerp).

Lommel and Gent both are quite close to Brussels. Beersel is an adjacent commune, so everything was really close to the ther location (then again, Belgium is a small country). I had never heard of The Muur, though I was laughing when they tried to pronounce the Flemish woords :)

The clue for the Atomium was genius, because everybody in Belgium knows what it is and where it's at. The trick is, it's visible from far away, but getting there can be difficult if you don't know what you're looking for exactly to exit the highway (you have to follow the Heysel direction mostly). It didn't surprise me that some racers took a long time to go from Beersel to the Atomium.

As for the Tintin task, it was a fun little task. The mural is located in the middle of the street between the Grand Place and the Mannekenpis statue, so it's likely that many people, even at 4 o'clock, would know where it's located. As an aside, there are many such murals in Brussels, but each represents another comic book (due to its location, the Tintin one is probably the easiest to find). The other Tintin mural they showed is actually from the Comic Book Museum.

For the tasks, I must say I was very disappointed. It's as if a production assistant asked his pals what they knew about Belgium, and he got Jean-Claude Van Damme, waffles and the Atomium as an answer. The culturism task was fun, but has nothing to do with Belgian culture. I'll allow the waffles (and the boating, although it seemed random), but the pigeons came out of nowhere. Perhaps Belgium truly is number one in this sport, but nobody in Belgium knows it (I learned something at least). The Tintin task was fine and probably a tie-in with the movie.
Otherwise, I was really offended by the Ford task. You waited 19 seasons to go to Belgium and then you waste half an episode on a stupid (and endless) commercial??? Do that in India (in fairness, they did it with Snapples) or China, countries that have been visited 3 trillion times before. Thank goodness the driving instructors were funny at least. Well, two episodes in Belgium is not bad, but that Ford task really left a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited by Isuzu, Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:32 AM.

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#544

FrogsRule

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Posted Jan 28, 2012 @ 2:55 AM

Isuzu, my opinion (and that's all it is): Besides obvious product placement, the Ford task also showcased a reviving American industry - namely the auto industry. When we think of automotive proving grounds or test facilities in Europe, we tend to think "BMW" or "VW" or "Volvo" - we don't think of U.S. car manufacturers as having a market overseas.

So it's kind of nice in this tough economy to be reminded that our products do have a worldwide market. :-)
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#545

SnideAsides

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Posted Jan 29, 2012 @ 9:04 PM

I think the sad thing is they could have easily, easily made a tangential link between the Ford task and Belgium's history of being good at racing sports (F1 certainly, also mountain biking), but they chose not to so they could instead do the pigeon task.

Then again, look how repetitive other tasks were - the telephone, statue, typing, and spirit house Road Blocks were all the same basic "copy this over there" task.

Edited by SnideAsides, Jan 29, 2012 @ 10:09 PM.

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#546

Rusun

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 7:36 PM

One minor, but still unfortunate "sign" of downgrading: whatever happened to signposts at pitstops? The last one was in Brazil two seasons ago.
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#547

SnideAsides

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 11:34 PM

I don't know. Still, at least they waited until the end of a season to ditch it. Remember when they used to have the flag around the sign, and then they randomly got rid of it after one leg in TAR7? They even had it at the Pit Stop at the start of the leg, but it was gone by the time teams were checking in.
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#548

iCrap

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Posted May 31, 2012 @ 11:57 PM

I wonder if TAR21 is going to use the 'Salvage Pass' that has come up in the second Australian Race...

For those that haven't/won't seen it, the Pass gives the team that wins the pass by coming first the choice of either starting the next leg an hour earlier (although this would be a waste because of equalisers) OR prevent the team that finishes in last place from being eliminated.

There were hints that the pass will show up again later in the race, so it could makes things more interesting than the somewhat lame Express Pass.

I also like the idea that the teams vote for another team to get U-Turned before the leg starts, and the team with the most votes is affected by it. Would prevent the petty U-Turning from last season and the "we'll U-Turn them just to guarantee that we won't be last" way of thinking seen in the last few races.
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#549

Netfoot

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Posted Jun 1, 2012 @ 3:03 AM

I also like the idea that the teams vote for another team to get U-Turned before the leg starts, and the team with the most votes is affected by it.

Great! Just what we need: Turn the race into a popularity contest. The part where they vote to decide who to screw over? They could call that, something like... I don't know... Tribal Council or something.
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#550

SnideAsides

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Posted Jun 4, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

Yeah, the U-Turn sucks to begin with, and that's not going to help.
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#551

FrogsRule

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Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 1:49 AM

Really don't like the idea of any sort of a "vote" as part of The Amazing Race. Sprinters, marathoners, and relayers don't vote on who has to stop running and do push-ups. I know it's not a race-race, but TAR more closely resembles a genuine athletic competition than Survivor or BB.

I am not sure why Bruckheimer is feeling compelled to incorporate elements of both Survivor into TAR. It is such a different animal.

SnideAsides, that's an interesting analysis. I would add that I believe that TAR competitors "think" more like sports competitors, with all the little rituals and superstitions that go along with sports. It's not just us viewers who think "taxi karma" or otherwise worry about what-goes-around-comes-around. I'd bet that things like the Yield and U-Turn carry a similar superstitious weight with the racers. Wonder if any of them would ever admit it out loud? ;-)

My primary wish for improving the race (and this is hardly original): I wish that each leg, transportation options were left up to the racers, no "you must do this on foot" or "you must drive this product placement Ford".

If they limited the funds, perhaps giving the racers smaller amounts of money plus bus or subway tokens as part of their allowance, the racers could decide when it would be smart to conserve money and take public transportation, and when renting a car - one they paid for out of those funds - or getting a taxi would make the most sense.

It would be more entertaining (I think) if we saw people trying to get from Point A to Point B in many different ways, not just "follow that taxi". I love it when they get lost. Heh.
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#552

Lamb18

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Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 7:50 AM

I don't understand the logistics of taking a vote. Do all the racers vote at the same time? You then have to make sure they are all together at some point during the leg, which means an enforced bunching. Or do they vote when they arrive at a particular clue box, so the vote continues all day? What if a team arrives at the pit stop before a team arrives at the polling place? In particular, what if the "winning" team is already at the pit stop before the votes can be counted? It's one thing to vote when people are sitting around the same location all day, but racers are on the move. A vote doesn't make sense when people are moving and locations changing.
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#553

Netfoot

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Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 3:23 PM

You would have to vote between the end of the previous leg, and before the start of the next leg, since that's the only time you could guarantee they were all in one place. They wouldn't have to be all together to vote. They could vote individually, so long as they all cast their vote before the next leg began.

But I can't begin to tell you what a rotten idea this is. It would go completely against the very nature and spirit of TAR which is (for me) that teams win or lose essentially as a result of their own efforts and abilities or lack thereof. The very idea that a bunch of piss-poor racers could gang up on competent teams and "vote them off the island" is anathema. A vote for this would be a vote to replace Phil with Probst. "Once again, immunity is back up for grabs!"
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#554

SnideAsides

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Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 12:05 AM

My understanding from Israel's version is that they voted upon leaving the Pit Stop, with the "winner" being U-Turned when they finish the Detour. Israel's version had a significantly higher number of tasks - a leg lasted two or three episodes - which meant there was no danger of the vote being voided by the "winner" dominating.

It'll be interesting to see how Australia (which is sort of in the middle of the two versions - single episodes, but still usually two or three Route Info tasks in addition to the Detour and Road Block, and no Speed Bump to complicate things) handles it, to see whether it has any chance of being used in America.

The Salvage Pass? You're not getting it. It amounts to changing the elimination schedule, which would be illegal in your country.
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#555

SnideAsides

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Posted Jun 14, 2012 @ 11:20 PM

Thinking out loud here. Would it work to do the "two Road Blocks, no Detour" episode as the season premiere instead of the finale? It seems we're not going to get a first-leg Detour again any time soon (at least not in this version), and with the Express Pass as the first leg's prize I feel like both team members should earn it instead of just one.
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#556

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Posted Jun 15, 2012 @ 2:24 PM

Thinking out loud here. Would it work to do the "two Road Blocks, no Detour" episode as the season premiere instead of the finale? It seems we're not going to get a first-leg Detour again any time soon (at least not in this version), and with the Express Pass as the first leg's prize I feel like both team members should earn it instead of just one.


I like this idea.

To further expand upon it, why not have the first RB take place at the starting line, much like TARAus or TAR Norge (?). It would up the ante on the first task, which is usually irrelevant since a) most times the first flights are filled by people that got to the airport first and b) the team that is last in finishing the task is usually not impacted heavily by the task (Misa/Maiya had no penalty, Kaylani/Lisa managed to finish it because Bill/Cathi took a scenic tour of Taipei, Amanda/Kris could've won the Express Pass).

Simply have someone other than Phil officiate the task. Upon successful completion of the RB, the team gets handed a plane ticket to wherever their first destination is. Give the last team a penalty of some sort (give them a Hazard or have them Marked for Elimination, either one works for this purpose I think).
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#557

SnideAsides

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Posted Jun 20, 2012 @ 7:08 PM

To further expand upon it, why not have the first RB take place at the starting line, much like TARAus or TAR Norge (?). It would up the ante on the first task, which is usually irrelevant since a) most times the first flights are filled by people that got to the airport first and b) the team that is last in finishing the task is usually not impacted heavily by the task (Misa/Maiya had no penalty, Kaylani/Lisa managed to finish it because Bill/Cathi took a scenic tour of Taipei, Amanda/Kris could've won the Express Pass).


Norway's first Road Block happened in Dubai. I think the other thing the Aussie and Norwegian starting tasks (and Israel's) have that's better than this version's starting tasks is that they're not needle-in-a-haystack things. Yes, observation was needed for the licence plates and the paper planes and umbrellas (to find Shinagawa, QANTAS, and TAI respectively), but it's still a random luck task. I don't think a penalty's even really needed.

As for the Voting U-Turn, it turns out teams have to vote upon leaving the mat but before leaving the Pit Stop (if that makes sense), and the teams are bunched before the Detour by a flight. Didn't turn out very well, although I'm not sure how much of that was due to the twist, or just dreadful leg design in general.

If there's one twist from a foreign version I'd expect to see, it's Norway's NEL penalty. Rather simply, an existing task on the leg is made slightly harder. Carrying two lit candles from the last task to the Pit Stop instead of one, for example, or a standard U-Turn for a leg with two fairly quick Detour tasks. Basically, it's kind of the same idea as a Speed Bump, but without the need for extra travel time and an extra task, which means the task can be more than just "sit here for five minutes" or "solve this slide puzzle". I think it could work really well here.

Edited by SnideAsides, Jun 20, 2012 @ 7:25 PM.

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#558

AussiesRule

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Posted Jun 23, 2012 @ 11:35 PM

I like the idea of the "vote for who gets U turned" in TARaus 2. Out of the 9 remaining teams, only one voted for the team who's has actually been the strongest so far so the idea that teams would gang up on the strong teams to get them eliminated didn't happen here. And only one team used it in a proper strategic way i.e. voting for the team who was behind them. The others all voted for for the team who's seems to be pissing everyone off. I know I can't wait to get them off my TV so if they came across that way in the race I wouldn't blame everyone for voting for them. I hope this idea gets put into the US version as I can't stand the pettiness and bitching about the U turn as it is now.
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#559

SnideAsides

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Posted Oct 1, 2012 @ 12:47 AM

Wow. So... yeah. Just for the record, the two-Road-Block first leg was not spoiled, and when I suggested it I genuinely was pulling things out of thin air. (The same week I suggested it, Australia's version had a two-Road-block leg in Leg Three, which seemed to work well and was what made me think about it.)

Edited by SnideAsides, Oct 1, 2012 @ 12:48 AM.

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#560

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Posted Oct 1, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

Double-RB makes sense in openers, I think, because it introduces each team member to viewers to some degree, while making allowances for a packed field and a fatiguing first flight.

So, the double-your-money thing. As I mentioned in the ep thread, I half-thought that if they were going to create a bonus condition, it would be to a team that wins the most legs throughout the Race and then wins at the end. That sets up an interesting strategic twist along the way, because if you have a couple of strong teams winning the first few legs, then it potentially encourages them to take leg-winning risks over more conservative racing to avoid elimination. Dominating teams like Rachel & Dave are pretty rare, and it's more common to see teams scoop up four or five legs in the middle of the Race then have one bad day and go out before the end.

Oh well. I don't see how giving the bonus to the first-leg winner adds much to the mid-race, other than perhaps putting a U-Turn target on that team's back, but even then, that's more spite than strategy. It may just be an attempt to TPTB to phase out the Express Pass on a relatively low-prospect gamble, since only 30% of previous Race winners took the first leg.
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#561

SnideAsides

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Posted Oct 2, 2012 @ 3:31 AM

Even so, zero per cent of TAR winners have won Leg Three. (Even if you add all the foreign versions, it's only happened once.)
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#562

LadyEight

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Posted Oct 7, 2012 @ 10:34 AM

Wrong place - sorry!

Edited by LadyEight, Oct 7, 2012 @ 5:19 PM.

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#563

SilentMinority

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 12:46 PM

Even so, zero per cent of TAR winners have won Leg Three. (Even if you add all the foreign versions, it's only happened once.)


Holy Amazing Trivia, Statman! Someone should tell the racers that before Leg 3 and see if anyone sandbags ;-)

From the episode thread:

isn't it equally "unfair" for a team to gain an advantage through chance with a speedy, knowledgeable driver as it is to lose because of bad or slow driver.


Yes, I don't like to see this either. And it's equally bad whether it happens to a team I like or a team I hate.


What about a team whose performance is hobbled because someone gets sick - should all the teams stop racing until that team recovers from illness to mitigate the unfairness of one team being hit by a bug?


Getting ill isn't even in the same universe of "dumb luck" as simply drawing a bad cab driver out of the taxi lotto. Preparation, hygiene, and avoiding stupidity can all lead to prevention of illness. Nothing can prevent drawing a bad taxi driver.



But then it wouldn't be a "game" show but a scripted television program


No, it most certainly would not. It would be a competition where racing skills (and ability to get over fears and uncomfortable situations) determined the winners and losers. Not remotely "scripted".

There will always be some percentage of unavoidable randomness in a race like this. Taxi lotto doesn't have to be a part of it, and when it determines almost single-handedly who wins and loses, that is a huge detriment to the competitive aspect of the game. Either make the racers -- all of them -- navigate to the clues, or tell the drivers -- all of them -- exactly where to go and simply drive them there. The solution is not that difficult.
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#564

pl86

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 1:35 PM

No, it most certainly would not. It would be a competition where racing skills (and ability to get over fears and uncomfortable situations) determined the winners and losers. Not remotely "scripted".


There's a show for that - it's called Fear Factor. As long as Amazing Race isn't shot in a carefully controlled environment, randomness and chance will be a essential part of it.

There will always be some percentage of unavoidable randomness in a race like this. Taxi lotto doesn't have to be a part of it,


I guess I'm puzzled by why many people think taxi rides are so arbitrary that their randomness should be eliminated while other "unavoidable randomness" goes unnoticed. For example, a team is lost, they flag down a stranger who knows exactly where they're going and even leads them there. Completely random luck and a huge advantage. To me, there's zero difference between that scenario, which happens all the time on the show, and hitting the jackpot in a taxi lotto but calls for eliminating assistance from extra-friendly locals are rarely voiced. To me, there's nothing about the arbitrariness of taxi rides that makes them as any more intolerable than other kinds of randomness. What seems arbitrary to me is singling out taxi rides.

Edited by pl86, Oct 8, 2012 @ 1:38 PM.

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#565

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 9:29 PM

I guess I'm puzzled by why many people think taxi rides are so arbitrary that their randomness should be eliminated while other "unavoidable randomness" goes unnoticed.


Precisely because taxi lotto is avoidable, whereas other forms are not. Your argument is basically "you can't eliminate 100% of the luck factor, so why bother to try to eliminate any of it?" -- a line of thought that I vehemently disagree with. People use that type of logic as an excuse to not take any action towards preventing pollution, or calling for a ban on instant replay (because it doesn't get it right 100% of the time), etc.

I have found in my rather long life that the vast majority of people who like arbitrariness and luck tend to be lucky people who always throw double-sixes or have a pair of aces in the hole. People who shrug and say "life is unfair" are very often people for whom life has been anything but unfair.

If you actually like the random luck factor permeating as much of TAR as possible, with people getting eliminated purely on bad taxi luck being just "the way it is" (or a positive rather than a negative), then we have a fundamentally irreconcilable viewpoint of what makes TAR good and/or what would make it better.
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#566

Kel Varnsen

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Posted Oct 9, 2012 @ 7:14 AM

There will always be some percentage of unavoidable randomness in a race like this. Taxi lotto doesn't have to be a part of it, and when it determines almost single-handedly who wins and loses, that is a huge detriment to the competitive aspect of the game. Either make the racers -- all of them -- navigate to the clues, or tell the drivers -- all of them -- exactly where to go and simply drive them there. The solution is not that difficult.


But is taxi luck any different than airline luck? I mean flight delays are pretty common and could easily cause a team who was in front to be eliminated. There has even been one case where a show arranged flight that was supposed to arrive somewhere first has arrived somewhere last due to delays. So if you are going to eliminate random taxis should you eliminate random flights too and force everyone to be on the same plane?
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#567

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Posted Oct 9, 2012 @ 8:28 AM

So if you are going to eliminate random taxis should you eliminate random flights too and force everyone to be on the same plane?


Another argument of "why bother eliminating one controllable element of randomness if you can't eliminate all of them".

Pilots "getting lost" and flying around randomly with a single team looking for the destination is not an issue.

I've already posted my solution: either make the racers do all of the navigation (the cabbies go only where the racers explicitly tell them to go), or give all the cabbies explicit instructions on where to go so you don't have individual teams flailing around for 4 hours and switching cabbies 3 times, completely negating whatever expertise/skills they may have demonstrated on the entire rest of the leg.

Again, finding other examples in TAR where luck plays a factor in no way negates my argument.
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#568

bafleyanne

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Posted Oct 9, 2012 @ 9:02 AM

Pilots "getting lost" and flying around randomly with a single team looking for the destination is not an issue.


Exactly. Flight delays are more along the lines of a car getting a flat tire. Something that's often mechanically related and can't really be avoided. Taxi delays due to navigation can almost ALWAYS be avoided by either getting a driver who knows where he/she is going in the first place, or by having drivers who are willing to call and ask for directions if they don't.
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#569

curbcrusher

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Posted Oct 9, 2012 @ 9:54 AM

I guess it depends on what you consider the game elements of The Amazing Race.

If you are a person that focuses on the task and the skill/luck it takes to do them, then you probably don't consider flights and taxi cabs all that important as game elements.

If you view the race as a travel game though, then the flights and cabs become an essential game element. If I were to say I'm going to leave my house and make a trip around the world tomorrow, and the first stop is the Opera House in Sydney, I've got to book flights from the US to Sydney and then figure out how to get to the Opera House. That very likely is going to involve a cab. As I continued my trip I would encounter more cab rides and good and bad cab drivers. Just like I would encounter a delayed flight or two. It is an integral part of making your way around the world (at least it is if you want to see more than the hold rooms of different airports).

I liked the earlier seasons where they seemed to give the contestants much more leeway in booking flights, it was much more of a race around the world. If the game were to evolve ground transportation the same way (that is assign the GT to contestants so that is is all "equal") that moves the game further from a race around the world and more to a series of physical/mental task set in a different country. And as I think someone said in the episode thread, you could do that show for a lot less money on a sound stage.
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#570

Kel Varnsen

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Posted Oct 9, 2012 @ 10:44 AM

Exactly. Flight delays are more along the lines of a car getting a flat tire. Something that's often mechanically related and can't really be avoided.


Wow I wish I lived somewhere where most flight delays are mechanical issues. Most of the time when I travel flight delays are things like where they have backed away from the gate, but there is a long line up of planes taking off, or they have to wait for wing de-icing, or you have landed and you have to wait because there is another plane in your plane's parking lot. Or your plane can't leave on time, because the crew hasn't had their required amount of rest and there is no back up crew. Or the luggage loaders are short staffed and it is taking longer than expected to load the plane. I fly a couple of times a year and it has been at least 10 years since I have had a plane delayed by mechanical problems.

Another argument of "why bother eliminating one controllable element of randomness if you can't eliminate all of them".


I see the point you are trying to make, but what criteria would you use to decide that Taxi luck is important to be eliminated but flight luck isn't? Plus I have always thought that bad taxi luck is only bad luck if you sit back and let the driver do everything. What is stopping racers from pulling out a map and directing the driver, or pulling out the map before you get in the car and making sure the driver knows where to go (and not getting in if he doesn't)? Those things you can control, if you get on a flight hoping to be first and then your plane is delayed there is a lot less you can do about it.

I've already posted my solution: either make the racers do all of the navigation (the cabbies go only where the racers explicitly tell them to go),


Except there is nothing stopping good racers from doing that now. I mean if you are in a cab and the driver is lost, there is nothing stopping a racer from getting a map, figuring out where he or she is and then telling the cabbie exactly where to do. If you spend hours in a cab and all you do is complain about how the cabbie doesn't know where to go, then you deserve to come in last.

Edited by Kel Varnsen, Oct 9, 2012 @ 10:54 AM.

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