1779 replies to this topic

[GoodThings]

So, here's where we'll discuss what we think is going to happen, before it happens, spoiler-free. Remember to check FAQ for the rules governing what's a spoiler and what isn't.

So, what does everyone think the make-up of the dancers will be? I'm thinking that ballroom will have a better and/or larger representation this season, due to the resurgence of it as a mainstream dance form. And not just with the hunky latin dancers.

I'm thinking it will be (if they cast top 20?)
10 lyrical, contemporary, modern, ballet (the "technical" dancers - see arguments (er, I mean discussions) from last season)
4 or 5 ballroom
3 street/hip hop
2 or 3 oddballs that don't "fit" anywhere (read: talented tapper/hoofer, bellydancer, Irish dancer....)

I wonder if it would be demographically challenging for a girl to win - especially if she were only marginally better than the boys. I get the feeling each year that each of the boys get more votes than the girls. Still, two male wins do not make a pattern, I guess.

My (completely unscientific) instinct is that more women watch the show, which means it's going to be harder for a woman to win. Especially against cute boys like Benji and Nick. She's not going to win being only "a little bit better" than her male competitors (*cough*Heidi*cough*). She's going to have to completely obliterate them.

I brought this over from the Meet Market. IMO, it will be tough for a girl to win because it seems like it there are so many girls in the arts (dancing, singing, theater). There's always been more competition for women than men and when we see a guy that is that good (as Nick, Blake, Travis, Benji) it makes us stand up and take notice. It's not as surprising for a woman to that well....

Edited by GoodThings, May 23, 2007 @ 1:44 PM.

[justmy2cents]

10 lyrical, contemporary, modern, ballet (the "technical" dancers - see arguments (er, I mean discussions) from last season)

Ha ha! If I remember correctly, that's "technique, narrowly defined" GoodThings! :)))

I'm not sure I ever knew what the narrow definition was: I think it was traditionally ballet-based, but someone can ... and surely will ... correct me. I remember there was also "technique, broadly defined" that acknowledged and encompassed techniques from other styles.

Ah, such intense times in that old thread.

On topic: I bet your speculated mix is about right.

[imogen28]

I wonder if there might be a couple more ballroom kids this year because of how well Benji and Heidi (and Dmitry, to a somewhat lesser extent) did last year? That might have convinced more ballroom types to audition and shown the producers that they can bring in just as many viewers.

I like the "narrowly-defined" and "broadly-defined" distinction. Maybe we should tried to adopt those as a group. It seemed to me that a good portion of the disagreements last year stemmed from people using different definitions for the same word, and once it was parsed out what everyone was actually talking about, we mostly agreed.

[Kariann1964]

I would like to throw this at you for mere information and relate it back to SYTYCD. I recall a few peeps were also crossovers from American Idol.

Randy Jackson to produce hip hop dance reality show

As reported in our Upfronts coverage, NBC announced that American Idol judge Randy Jackson's World Moves will be on their 2007-2008 primetime schedule. World Moves is a reality competition series (what else?) which pits hip hop dance teams from around the world against one another. The winning team will be awarded an international touring contract.

According to the NBC press release, World Moves is not just about winning a competition: "World Moves involves stories that change lives and bring the world together." [skip]

World Moves will follow dance teams with five to seven members. The teams will be judged on athleticism, creativity, and innovative choreography. Finalists will head to Los Angeles to compete live and, as usual, viewers at home will be asked to vote for their favorites. [skip]

Jackson will be producing the project in partnership with the creators of the World Hip Hop Championship. The show will air on NBC later in the fall.

I believe the success of Hip Hop Dance on S1 and S2 may have shown that the dance is popular and worthy of its own category. I am thinking back to some of the great performances on last years' SYTYCD. It was new exposure for me. Then seeing Apolo and Julianne perform a routine on Monday's DWTS acknowledged this fact. (Maybe they had tapes of S2 to watch?)

I am sorry for being long-winded here, but I have learned so much by reading the posts. I had never heard of the World Hip Hop Championships prior to this announcement and hope to become knowledgeable.

Good Things, I believe Heidi was worthy of winning, but the competition from the guys was so profound. Word, on your speculation of dancers. I also believe there were at least three who were told to come back next year. This gave them the time to sharpen their skills and learn new techniques and style.

ETA: the skips were personal opinions.

Edited by Kariann1964, May 23, 2007 @ 2:53 PM.

[shalia17]

Although I don't put much stake in anything Randy Jackson does/says/etc. , I might be interested in the show. I do value SYTYCD for it's variety but I do think the show may be entertaining since the format seems completely different and within the genre itself there are many different forms (East Coast/ West coast was discussed briefly last year) and it may be interesting to see what comes of it all. I do give some credit to SYTYCD for starting the dance craze in whatever genre that seems to be spreading in the mainstream among non-dancers like me and I'm sure plenty of others.

So does anyone have any spec on who they think maybe came back and got through? Not necessarily any spoilers but more like who'd you like to see and probably has a good shot. Anybody remember that babyfaced tapper who got passed over for Ryan? I kinda hope he'd come back,if he did I think he'd have a good shot of making it to the top 20. How about the tutter Pandora. If she came back and actually trained in other areas she'd have a shot too.

eta: some actual speculation!

Edited by shalia17, May 23, 2007 @ 3:11 PM.

[cagewench]

Was the baby-faced tapped named Mike or something?

I'd like to see the popper come back after taking some elementary dance classes because he was cool and I'd also like to see the last girl who audtioned in L.A. (I think) come back too (was her name Pandora?)

And I hope it's a top 20 again this season :>

[boozilu]

Wasn't there some girl that sprained her ankle last year, and they told her she could come back? Does she have to audition again or can she go right to the 2nd round?

[cagewench]

That was Claire and she was told she could come back at the same spot where she left although rumour has it that she is a newlywed and won't be on this year... I *think* I got that right, I read it in the old forum.

[Skittl1321]

There's always been more competition for women than men and when we see a guy that is that good (as Nick, Blake, Travis, Benji) it makes us stand up and take notice. It's not as surprising for a woman to that well....

I totally agree with this. When a guy is INCREDIBLE it's impressive because, well in my dance experience I haven't seen many guys who are truly good. Girls who are INCREDIBLE aren't quite a dime a dozen, but if you've been in dance for even a little bit- it's old hat. You've seen amazing girls. So I think as a voter I'm more impressed with an amazing guy.

And hey- it's a favorite dancer- my favorite dancer last year was Benji, because he was good and because he was adorable. I'll vote for the cute guy to keep him on the show.

[TwistTie]

I'm a tapper myself so seeing Mike back. My question is will they have a sexy Russian this year? :)

[crackinup]

Randy Jackson to produce hip hop dance reality show

I have nothing to say to relate this back to SYTYCD, but I am already this show's bitch merely upon announcement.

Oh wait, I lied, I *can* relate it back to SYTYCD. Hip hop teams -> You Got Served -> Worst plotline ever -> but saved by Shane Sparks' off the hook choreography. Also featuring Brian Friedman (if you watch very very closely) in a fake hip hop team competition, hosted by Wade Robson.

[justmy2cents]

I have nothing to say to relate this back to SYTYCD, but I am already this show's bitch merely upon announcement.

Please, Kariann or crackinup or someone, would you let us know if you hear more about the scheduling?

I've already revealed I will watch anything even vaguely associated with this show. (Does the walk of shame.)

Any speculation on why some of the commercials were messed up and said "America's Best Dancer"? Was that just a stupid mistake?

[ajay]

2cents, do not walk in shame. We have a home now where we can hold our heads up high and bask in internet anonymity.

I think that the promo monkeys don't really understand the difference between favorite and best and that's why the promo was what it was.

Back to speculation, I'd like to see a few different types of dancers. Someone with a tap background would be great.

Do you think we'll get any good female hip-hop dancers who can last this time?

[justmy2cents]

Thanks, ajay!

Someone with a tap background would be great.

<does a Hiro-of-Heroes type scrunch face> mm rrph mm .. Haven't we had some tap people? Martha? Wait ... was it Destini? Someone who wasn't happy with her early portrayal?

I would LOVE to hear about all the special ways a tap background would be especially helpful. Because I am completely ignorant about tap. And everyone keeps talking about it. And now I am holding my head up high and basking in internet anonymity. :)

<sits down, criss cross applesauce, ears cleaned and turned outward>

[rose2d]

Goodthings, I think you may be right about more ballroomers. I know the quality of the ballroom dancers who auditioned has certainly spiked significantly, and that those I know of who auditioned were certainly aware that their hip hop and lyrical skills had to be up to snuff in order to cut it.

[Hyper Critical]

justmy2cents - just off the top of my head, see if you can find a clip of Gregory Hines in White Nights if not Netflix it, also watch Happy Feet animation choreography by Savion Glover. I don't know if there are any clips on thesitethatshallnotbenamed, check out Michael Minery. And finally, if you are up to it, google Alicia Clifton and watch both her tap performances since she was a babe, and then watch her branch out into other styles. Hall of Fame dance competition is where a lot of her stuff resides, but the girl also won international awards and she was named a Capezio Rising Star, she's amazing! I believe she still holds a record for consecutive pirouettes, all at the ripe age of 14 or 15 if I'm not mistaken.

edited for clarity

Edited by Hyper Critical, May 23, 2007 @ 10:20 PM.

[justmy2cents]

Thank you, Hyper Critical! You give the BEST homework. I've seen White Nights before and I've a slightly unnatural interest in dancing penguins already, so I'm halfway down the list. Michael Minery, Alicia Clifton, and Brian's new black ruffled shirt. Got it! :)

I guess I was most curious about how weight is carried differently in tap than, well, ballroom (which is all I know). It's kind of hard to tell subtle things like that from the penguins. Even so, I wouldn't think there'd be exactly the same kinds of dynamics as worrying about rise and fall in waltz, for example.

Hmm. I've been thinking about starting a technique thread all day. Maybe now I finally have an excuse!

rose2d, great news about ballroomers (and about your teaching!).

How to get back on topic? Hmm. Has anyone heard any speculation about forms of backlash? I was worried that swing dancers/ballroom dancers were going to be less well received this year because Benji won. I hope it's not true!

[ngcskate]

I've heard and read in various places that the powers that be requested that Benji's sister, Lacey, not audition this year because it was too soon. They apparently asked her to wait a year or two. Lacey auditioned anyway, with Benji, from what I've heard. I've got no idea if she made it or not, I have a feeling she at least made it to Vegas. But I am concerned that they may use the connection ("just not as versatile as your brother") to get her booted off ASAP or that fans of other dancers may boycott her ("she's only here because of her brother") because her brother won last year.

[cagewench]

If that's the case - I do not think it is fair that they asked her to NOT audition...

[alvin etler]

the powers that be requested that Benji's sister, Lacey, not audition this year because it was too soon.

If that's the case - I do not think it is fair that they asked her to NOT audition...

As I see it, I don't think it's really a question of fair as much as what's realistic. From a "Good TV" perspective, the only way you can treat a sibling on show like this is to 1)Talk about how the Schwimmer family is so talented, and really promote that familial relationship to death, or 2) Use it as ngcskate suggested to bash her and point out how she's just not Benji.

I think TPTB know that the former would piss off folks like me that had enough of the Schwimmer pimping last year, and I think that the producers have way to much respect for the Schwimmer's in general to do the latter. That really leaves them no choice but to just not cast her, at least for a few years.

[catperson]

My question is will they have a sexy Russian this year? :)

My question is will they have shirts that keep getting unbuttoned? :)

[karashi]

My (completely unscientific) instinct is that more women watch the show, which means it's going to be harder for a woman to win. Especially against cute boys like Benji and Nick.

Heh, don't forget the gay guys. Also, yeah, supply and demand sometimes makes it feel more 'special' when a guy is a great dancer vs. a girl.

If I have to choose between sexy/shirtless/Russian, I'll make do without the last part!

[GoodThings]

Haven't we had some tap people? Martha? Wait ... was it Destini? Someone who wasn't happy with her early portrayal?

There was a girl in Season 1 who was a tapper (Sandy? I believe from Vegas) and she was the first eliminated. She tried to infuse her tap number DoD with hip/hop or something and it abysmally failed! I fear that tappers, unless they are equally schooled in other techniques (and simply chose to be a tapper), will not be able to compete. They are at an even bigger disadvantage than hip hoppers, I feel, because their DoDs will not be all that exciting to the general viewer (I mean, I like tap, but the DoDs really have to GRAB you and make you want to vote and tap just doesn't do that for me).

As I see it, I don't think it's really a question of fair as much as what's realistic. From a "Good TV" perspective, the only way you can treat a sibling on show like this is to 1)Talk about how the Schwimmer family is so talented, and really promote that familial relationship to death, or 2) Use it as ngcskate suggested to bash her and point out how she's just not Benji.

I agree. If it's true that they asked her not to, it was to be fair to her and to others. There's a risk either way of her winning on Benji's talents, her not doing as well, others losing to her for reasons not related to dance ability....so much risk of grumblings and talk of pimping by those who set up camp on grassy knolls. Give it a season or two, so that there's not a perception of coattail riding. This way, it could be the little sis coming into her own.

I also think it's a little entitled of her to go ahead and audition anyway. Is she that much better than all the other ballroom dancers who will come out of the woodwork for this season, that she would ignore the very people who are the ones deciding if she makes it to the voting stage? Does she not understand that the simplest mistake caught on film can be played to justify her not making it? It makes me wonder about how much humility she has. Benji still seemed to have a lot of humility (though he was very confident in his ability). I'm not so sure about Lacey.

I'm going to have to try to forget this, since it's only rumor and it's already clouding my thoughts about her. And I was a Benji fan last year!

Edited by GoodThings, May 24, 2007 @ 10:07 AM.

[Hyper Critical]

There was a girl in Season 1 who was a tapper (Sandy? I believe from Vegas) and she was the first eliminated.

Sandra. She was actually good in a variety of genres as seen in Boot Camp, I think she really suffered for her DoD presentation - that fusion tap/hip-hop/cheerleading number was very meh. Had she chosen to come out and hoof up a storm - it may have played differently. Martha, I believe did the opening sequence once in tap shoes last year. Most of the "widely trained" kids who are exceptional at one genre of dance rock at most of them, even if they choose to only specialize in one.

eta: I'm so hesitant to weigh in on the Lacey thing, because I'd be a hypocrite in a lot of ways if some of the folks make it to the top 20 that are floating out there as Boot Campers - but I gotta say - I hated the ship last year, I hated the pimping, and the family's behavior really bothered me, to the point that it soured me on Benji completely. I don't doubt for a second that Lacey is talented, and there is a very good chance that like Heidi, she is more cross-trained than Benji was - I only wish any of these contestants the best, but I really think it would have served her better to wait a year or two. I promise though, should she come out of boot camp into the Top 20, I will try to remain objective, as long as the nonsense from last year does not repeat, because if it does, all bets are off.

Edited by Hyper Critical, May 24, 2007 @ 10:49 AM.

[JibberJabber]

Sandra got hosed.

They wouldn't let her tap in her DoD. She begged to be able to go out there with no music at all, and they patently refused. If a tapper can't be heard, then really, what's the point? It's not that impressive. She had to make up something different on the spot, and it wasn't that good, and she got booted.

The first of many instances of Nigel rigging the show.

[ShellBen]

Hmmm, I have a feeling that during auditions there will be some concerns about Lacey in regards to her brother's success. That's only natural. But I think if she goes far in the competition the Benji ties will soon die down. She's very different from him. We'll see I guess!

Ooh, and what about Hok? The guy with the visa issue last year. I know he tried out again this year. Wouldn't be shocked if he made it to top 20 this time, considering it looked like he almost did last time.

[JibberJabber]

He didn't just "almost" make it - he was in, and then revealed his student visa issue.

I think he got a work permit this year. At least, that's what I've heard from people I know who know him from Whittier College.

[Hyper Critical]

I think he got a work permit this year. At least, that's what I've heard from people I know who know him from Whittier College.

He did, and now I don't remember for sure how I know that - maybe one of the interviews on the SYTYCD website? If you haven't checked those out yet - it's kind of worth it. I liked the Shane ones.

[justmy2cents]

He didn't just "almost" make it - he was in, and then revealed his student visa issue.

That must mean he made it to Vegas and we'll see at least that much. I'm glad. He had such personal appeal.

Thanks for the answers on Sandra. I knew there was someone. I hated that cheerleading mishmash for that DoD. It's probably unfair that I immediately got a bad vibe from the costume, but there it is. Goes back to our earlier topic about all the lines the women have to walk. (Hastens to add --- it's not anything against cheerleading, exactly. I wasn't thrilled with Melody's outfit for You Can Leave Your Hat On either. I must have some latent issues about certain artistic choices that I need to work out. Hey, where's the costuming thread?)

I was annoyed and irritated by the shipping last year, but I didn't think there was much Benji or Donyelle could do about it. I thought they played it out with about as much grace as they could. I felt the same way about the family connection. But, clearly, mileages vary and (\Stuart Smalley voice on:) that's "ok".

I do think Benji and Nick got very favorable editing from early on in the season. I tried to be objective - actually, I tend to be very hard on the ballroom people here and I consistently get quite dazzled by the lyrical people because I don't know about what they do - but I'm sure the editing helped me toward feeling pleased for both winners. While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I do wonder if there is anything to be read into the editing at audition times, and whether we will see that in play this year.

Oh. I don't have to say "this year" anymore. I mean, TONIGHT!!!

[eatingpaste]

I predict that as in the previous two seasons, I'll enjoy watching this show until the final weeks, when it becomes clear that a bland, non-threatening, moderately attractive, white American boy is going to win. The only exception might be if Benji's sister can successfully ride her brother's coattails into the top 20. Mediocrity, thy name is So You Think You Can Dance.

Edited by eatingpaste, May 24, 2007 @ 1:23 PM.