There seems to be a lot of interest in comparing season three to the previous seasons, discussing what many believe is a decline in quality and looking for ways to influence the future direction of the show. Since we're being told that these issues are off-topic in other threads, I thought we should begin a new, more general thread to talk about where the show has been and where it might go in the future.
For me, this season has been horribly disappointing and may cause me to tune out permanently. The first few episodes - through Where the Boys Are - were quite good, but it was a steady downhill slide after that. The slide became steeper with the ferryboat arc and hit rock bottom with the finale. Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, along came the writer's blog and nearly-unintelligable podcast that left me wondering how two seemingly-adolescent, squeeing women had gotten this far in the television industry.
By the finale, all of the characters were behaving completely differently than they were initially created. Alex was far from being in love with Ava/Rebecca. Meredith had pined for Derek for a year, yet she dumps him because Christina didn't get married? By my calculation, it's probably been about 3 months since Denny - Izzie's soulmate - died and as recently as Some Kind of Miracle she was still mourning him, but suddenly she's in love with George. And since when does a television show need to be "burned down" in order to find fresh topics? Since TV was invented, shows have been able to come back year after year with characters who grow and storylines that progress. If Shonda is already out of ideas and needs to start over with a new intern named Grey, perhaps she should step aside and turn the show over to someone with more imagination and the ability to write about things that are outside his/her own experience.
An all-seasons critique: Going down?
Started by
Cat Collector
, May 21 2007 05:55 PM
1247 replies to this topic
#1
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 5:55 PM
#2
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 6:49 PM
comparing season three to the previous seasons
What I miss the most is the day-to-day lives of the interns. Starting the day doing rounds on the patients with Derek, Burke and Addison and fight over who gets the coolest surgery. Between preparing the patients for surgery, doing surgeries and post-surgical rounds they can ride elevators, have lunch, bitch about work or their pathetic love life. If there is time left some sex in an on-call room would be nice too.
Edited by Bedellia, May 21, 2007 @ 6:51 PM.
#3
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 6:50 PM
Excellent thread. Thanks for setting it up!
At this point the decline over the seasons is really the only thing I still have anything to say about.
So I'll be back posting something more substantive later.
At this point the decline over the seasons is really the only thing I still have anything to say about.
So I'll be back posting something more substantive later.
#4
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 7:02 PM
Bedellia, I agree. I miss the scenes in the tunnels, etc. because let's face it, these people only have a year under their belts. They still have a lot to learn and good reason to lean on each other for support, even though they also compete with each other.
cpuffin, I've enjoyed your insightful comments on the writer's blog thread so I look forward to seeing your comments here.
cpuffin, I've enjoyed your insightful comments on the writer's blog thread so I look forward to seeing your comments here.
#5
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 7:07 PM
I think the decline started with the 3 NDE episodes. The tone of the overall show changed. Up until that time the ratings were good, the storylines about George's dad, Mer & Der issues, tremorgate and Izzie's money were all thought out and realistic. Then we went into na-na land and never seemed to find our way out. But I think that also was when the spinoff was being sold to ABC.
To me the difference in the seasons was the whole structure, pace, and genre of the show. To me the show was a reality based dramatic comedy from season 1. What attracted me to the show was strong character development, romance and FUN. This season lack a continuation of the character development. Meredith and Derek regressed. Christina and Burke regressed. Izzie and George just did a 180. The characters we had come to know were no longer present on our screens. Their personalities had changed without justification just as a plot device.
I think its more delay tactic. These writers are afraid they will run out of ideas so they just recycle trying not to move on to the next level. I think relationships are more complex to write.
I really miss more patient interaction and I don't mean Denny or Ava long term patients. I mean in the beginning the interns interacted alot with their patients. Now they may have a line or two in an episode. Mr. Lavangie, Jorge, & Viper all had mutiple scenes and were memorable characters. Try and think about a patient that you got to know this season. Try to remember a patient that really stuck in your mind. Its hard because the patients were taken out of the equation.
ITA Cat the podcast and blogs are a joke. What I dislike about both is that they intentionally mislead the viewer
Its the show's way of setting up the audience for a fall.
Thanks for starting this thread. Nice way for people to vent.
To me the difference in the seasons was the whole structure, pace, and genre of the show. To me the show was a reality based dramatic comedy from season 1. What attracted me to the show was strong character development, romance and FUN. This season lack a continuation of the character development. Meredith and Derek regressed. Christina and Burke regressed. Izzie and George just did a 180. The characters we had come to know were no longer present on our screens. Their personalities had changed without justification just as a plot device.
I think its more delay tactic. These writers are afraid they will run out of ideas so they just recycle trying not to move on to the next level. I think relationships are more complex to write.
I really miss more patient interaction and I don't mean Denny or Ava long term patients. I mean in the beginning the interns interacted alot with their patients. Now they may have a line or two in an episode. Mr. Lavangie, Jorge, & Viper all had mutiple scenes and were memorable characters. Try and think about a patient that you got to know this season. Try to remember a patient that really stuck in your mind. Its hard because the patients were taken out of the equation.
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, along came the writer's blog and nearly-unintelligable podcast that left me wondering how two seemingly-adolescent, squeeing women had gotten this far in the television industry.
ITA Cat the podcast and blogs are a joke. What I dislike about both is that they intentionally mislead the viewer
Its the show's way of setting up the audience for a fall.
Thanks for starting this thread. Nice way for people to vent.
#6
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 7:50 PM
I think what drew me to the show originally was the fact that there was a balance- people who excelled at work but screwed up in the social aspect, people who excelled at the social aspect but screwed at work, and, occasionally, people who excelled at both- or neither. Season 1 was grounded in the reality of the interns, but their reality is very different from most of ours, which added a fantastic "fantasy" element.
All that is lost now. The humor now feels like forced quirkiness and reused one-liners ("Seriously?" The "Mc"Names?) and the drama has now escalated to soap opera levels. The patients were always slightly heavy-handed metaphors of whatever issue a character (usually Meredith) were trying to work through, but in the past, it had been more about the characters seeing the connection (the rape victim that had Meredith's shoes, the psychic that Izzie doubted), not the writers forcing this week's theme down our throats (the mountain climbers).
And this is all discounting the story arcs that many (including myself) felt made season 3 pretty unbearable: Gizzard, the ferry accident, Alex and Ava....
All that is lost now. The humor now feels like forced quirkiness and reused one-liners ("Seriously?" The "Mc"Names?) and the drama has now escalated to soap opera levels. The patients were always slightly heavy-handed metaphors of whatever issue a character (usually Meredith) were trying to work through, but in the past, it had been more about the characters seeing the connection (the rape victim that had Meredith's shoes, the psychic that Izzie doubted), not the writers forcing this week's theme down our throats (the mountain climbers).
And this is all discounting the story arcs that many (including myself) felt made season 3 pretty unbearable: Gizzard, the ferry accident, Alex and Ava....
Edited by burntoemerge, May 21, 2007 @ 7:51 PM.
#7
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 7:52 PM
I started watching the show for Sandra Oh, kept calling it That Sandra Oh show before it aired. I loved the cast immediately and thought the first three episodes of S1 showed some promise.....as a soapy, semi-satirical relationship/coming of age show with a hospital as a backdrop, plus catchphrases, nice production values, and a girly sound track. I definitely thought it was not meant to be a medical drama, that it was about the more personal side of the characters' life. It felt like a mish mash of several other popular shows, and partly a rip off of Scrubs, but still Grey's had enough of its own tone to distinguish itself.
Thought the dialogue was flippant, but mostly in a catchy and amusing way up to that point. Found the voiceovers the least compelling part of the show, but it wasn't until the next episode, 1.04, No Man's Land, that I really started to raise my eyebrows and think that Shonda was a hack who was going to paint herself into many corners:
"Intimacy is a four syllable word for here is my heart and soul, please grind it into hamburger and enjoy." Which was all clever and good except the rest of the episode sounded more like a recipe for pulverizing the audience's heart with the Mer-Der story. The "rulebook of intimacy" voiceover, IMO, was a dead giveaway that the show would eventually end up in the miserable state it has. And, I never really saw the character development to explain why Meredith changed her mind at the end and decided to have breakfast with Derek. What made her get over her intern/attending hesitation? It didn't really flow from the previous scenes, it was just the convenience of the voiceover at the end to tell, not show character development (Meredith). 1.04 is also the first episode where I can really remember rolling my eyes at the writers trying too hard to sound cool and contemporary. Not just the voiceovers, but the actual dialogue. The human two by four, institution in need of an enema....it was clever, but it didn't sound conversational enough.
But, I persisted for the cast, mostly for Sandra Oh. I thought the show was kinda sophomoric in tone, the characters all seemed stuck in high school, but they were still likeable enough. By the time 1.08 Save Me rolled around, I was already convinced that Shonda had a penchant for writing to the lowest common denominator, hyping the myth in a superficial way on purpose and then "deconstructing" it in an even more half-assed way. I wanted to like the main couple in their big scene in front of the trailer, except something really bothered me about that scene that I couldn't quite pinpoint at the time, I just knew not to take the rest on faith with Derek. He seemed too mysterious to be true up to that point, and a rather unprofessional teacher, too. I felt the anvils in the previous episodes could not get any huger, a plot device was sure to pop up soon.
And, pop up she did in the very next episode. At the end of 1.09, Who's Zoomin Who, it was no surpise to me, though I was blown away by the television magic of it all, the noir way it was handled, the power of the scene. When Kate Walsh entered as Addison Shepherd, it was love at first sight and I was hooked. I put up with Shonda's writing for 2 more seasons just for KW/Addie.
I thought S2 was very entertaining thanks to KW shaking things up and all the drama, but the weaknesses that I saw laid out in S1 turned into red flags. Aside from the total and utter doucheyness that is Derek, some of my biggest gripes were about 1) the patient storylines becoming way too anvilicious, 2) the plot/characterizations/dialogue being written around the metaphors/catchphrases/etc. instead of the other way around, 3) characters being too high school, everything bad that happened eventually went back to the parents it seemed, 4) writing for Meredith veering off into Mary Sue territory, and 5) all the cinderella/prince charming/twu wuv superifical nonsense not seeming like a sustainable story for a television series. Somewhere along S2 and watching for KW I learned to enjoy wacthing the show for its farcical value more than anything else....half parable/half parody. The Superbowl ratings bonanza episodes were actually some of the least impressive in my book. Thanks for the Memories was one of my favorites.
S3 has been the joke I expected the show to turn into sooner or later. It's had its moments of course, but by and large the show's overall narrative is too far gone, it's just Shonda's House of Mirrors. There is nothing even to comment, Shonda burned it all down in the finale. The only episodes that I thought stood out apart from the rest of S3 stupidity (i.e. flowed somewhat decently) were Wishin' and Hopin', Staring at the Sun, Sometimes a Fantasy, Scars and Souvenirs, and The Other Side of this Life (Part 1 and 2).
Just my take. CC, Thanks for starting the thread.
Thought the dialogue was flippant, but mostly in a catchy and amusing way up to that point. Found the voiceovers the least compelling part of the show, but it wasn't until the next episode, 1.04, No Man's Land, that I really started to raise my eyebrows and think that Shonda was a hack who was going to paint herself into many corners:
"Intimacy is a four syllable word for here is my heart and soul, please grind it into hamburger and enjoy." Which was all clever and good except the rest of the episode sounded more like a recipe for pulverizing the audience's heart with the Mer-Der story. The "rulebook of intimacy" voiceover, IMO, was a dead giveaway that the show would eventually end up in the miserable state it has. And, I never really saw the character development to explain why Meredith changed her mind at the end and decided to have breakfast with Derek. What made her get over her intern/attending hesitation? It didn't really flow from the previous scenes, it was just the convenience of the voiceover at the end to tell, not show character development (Meredith). 1.04 is also the first episode where I can really remember rolling my eyes at the writers trying too hard to sound cool and contemporary. Not just the voiceovers, but the actual dialogue. The human two by four, institution in need of an enema....it was clever, but it didn't sound conversational enough.
But, I persisted for the cast, mostly for Sandra Oh. I thought the show was kinda sophomoric in tone, the characters all seemed stuck in high school, but they were still likeable enough. By the time 1.08 Save Me rolled around, I was already convinced that Shonda had a penchant for writing to the lowest common denominator, hyping the myth in a superficial way on purpose and then "deconstructing" it in an even more half-assed way. I wanted to like the main couple in their big scene in front of the trailer, except something really bothered me about that scene that I couldn't quite pinpoint at the time, I just knew not to take the rest on faith with Derek. He seemed too mysterious to be true up to that point, and a rather unprofessional teacher, too. I felt the anvils in the previous episodes could not get any huger, a plot device was sure to pop up soon.
And, pop up she did in the very next episode. At the end of 1.09, Who's Zoomin Who, it was no surpise to me, though I was blown away by the television magic of it all, the noir way it was handled, the power of the scene. When Kate Walsh entered as Addison Shepherd, it was love at first sight and I was hooked. I put up with Shonda's writing for 2 more seasons just for KW/Addie.
I thought S2 was very entertaining thanks to KW shaking things up and all the drama, but the weaknesses that I saw laid out in S1 turned into red flags. Aside from the total and utter doucheyness that is Derek, some of my biggest gripes were about 1) the patient storylines becoming way too anvilicious, 2) the plot/characterizations/dialogue being written around the metaphors/catchphrases/etc. instead of the other way around, 3) characters being too high school, everything bad that happened eventually went back to the parents it seemed, 4) writing for Meredith veering off into Mary Sue territory, and 5) all the cinderella/prince charming/twu wuv superifical nonsense not seeming like a sustainable story for a television series. Somewhere along S2 and watching for KW I learned to enjoy wacthing the show for its farcical value more than anything else....half parable/half parody. The Superbowl ratings bonanza episodes were actually some of the least impressive in my book. Thanks for the Memories was one of my favorites.
S3 has been the joke I expected the show to turn into sooner or later. It's had its moments of course, but by and large the show's overall narrative is too far gone, it's just Shonda's House of Mirrors. There is nothing even to comment, Shonda burned it all down in the finale. The only episodes that I thought stood out apart from the rest of S3 stupidity (i.e. flowed somewhat decently) were Wishin' and Hopin', Staring at the Sun, Sometimes a Fantasy, Scars and Souvenirs, and The Other Side of this Life (Part 1 and 2).
Just my take. CC, Thanks for starting the thread.
Edited by ShepherdSquared, May 21, 2007 @ 8:47 PM.
#8
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 8:21 PM
Wow, there isn't a single thing that has been said in this thread that I disagree with. So, while trying not to repeat everything above this post, I will just give my simple little overview of how this show fell so far, so fast.
The only time I liked the "McDreamy" relationship was during the very first scene with Mer kicking him out of her apartment. The moment the hospital scenes began, it bugged me because he was inappropriate to Meredith at her job. The man was her boss and her teacher and I didn't find his harassing her sexy, and my opinion of him bottomed out when his wife showed up. So, the "love story" always seemed sick and childish, bordering on deeply offensive because of the work issues and his lies. When he forced himself on her at the "prom" (first shark jumping to me was the ridiculous prom BTW) I was horrified. The woman was saying no to a married asshole, her boss, her teacher, who couldn't control his dick. It made me ill.
So why did I watch?
I liked everything else really. I liked the interns and their relationships, and the acting was great. I was often so touched by the patient stories that I could ignore the sophomoric anvils and parallels and "symmetry" that Shonda insisted on force feeding her viewers. I even liked the bomb in the patient story, because I could see that happening, and I loved the paramedic, the music, Meredith's face and acting with the "what'did'I'do, what'did'I'do" whispers. I thought it was very effective and almost riveting TV. I even liked Burke and Christina at first. I hated the ridiculous Denny LVad story (shark jumping #2 for me) but I adored the scenes with Heigl and the other interns, so I let it go.
Then, Derek became even more abusive to both Mer and Addison, Burke started in with his abuse, (because yes, I do think forcing people to do things your way, making them doubt themselves, punishing them by not allowing them to do their jobs, and emotional manipulation is abuse.) The "Love you so much" bullshit is a classic line of abusers, so I found it even more offensive that they were even using the classic language! Still, I could have handled that if Shonda would have called it what it was, men abusing their positions, and 'knowing best' for the little women. Shonda calling this "love" made me sick. Shonda's ideas that "Addison is at fault, not dreamy Derek" and trying to cram that down throats, made me know for sure that the woman is an emotional cripple.
The ferry was really the "Why the hell am I watching this again?" moment for me. It had such poor production, such clunky lines and scenes, and the characters actions were just nonsense in a triage situation. Hell Shonda, didn't you ever watch MASH? Everyone knows what triage means, and it doesn't mean helping one person and then riding with them to the hospital. It doesn't mean babysitting while people are dying all around you. Leaving Christina behind instead of the on-probation Izzy was another WTF? Those episodes were as bad as it can possibly get and still remain on primetime TV.
Oops, this is longer than I thought--sorry!
In general then, the intern interactions, the humor, the pithiness, and every single thing that made them interesting people to me, that made watching this crap worth it, in spite of the so called soul-mate crap, is just gone. The one-liners used to be so organic (the stuff when Mer's one night stands passed by Izzy and George for example,) is just gone. Now we have Chri9stina's eyebrows shaved off by a fashionable, elegant woman who has apparently accepted her, at long last, into the family. NO FUCKING WAY. It was a cheap laugh, and that's what this show has been reduced to now.
The actors are really good. I don't think they are good enough for me to keep watching justified adultery, and abuse and childishness masquerading as "true love" though. It might be fun to watch for the train wreck factor though. So bad it's a good laugh?
The only time I liked the "McDreamy" relationship was during the very first scene with Mer kicking him out of her apartment. The moment the hospital scenes began, it bugged me because he was inappropriate to Meredith at her job. The man was her boss and her teacher and I didn't find his harassing her sexy, and my opinion of him bottomed out when his wife showed up. So, the "love story" always seemed sick and childish, bordering on deeply offensive because of the work issues and his lies. When he forced himself on her at the "prom" (first shark jumping to me was the ridiculous prom BTW) I was horrified. The woman was saying no to a married asshole, her boss, her teacher, who couldn't control his dick. It made me ill.
So why did I watch?
I liked everything else really. I liked the interns and their relationships, and the acting was great. I was often so touched by the patient stories that I could ignore the sophomoric anvils and parallels and "symmetry" that Shonda insisted on force feeding her viewers. I even liked the bomb in the patient story, because I could see that happening, and I loved the paramedic, the music, Meredith's face and acting with the "what'did'I'do, what'did'I'do" whispers. I thought it was very effective and almost riveting TV. I even liked Burke and Christina at first. I hated the ridiculous Denny LVad story (shark jumping #2 for me) but I adored the scenes with Heigl and the other interns, so I let it go.
Then, Derek became even more abusive to both Mer and Addison, Burke started in with his abuse, (because yes, I do think forcing people to do things your way, making them doubt themselves, punishing them by not allowing them to do their jobs, and emotional manipulation is abuse.) The "Love you so much" bullshit is a classic line of abusers, so I found it even more offensive that they were even using the classic language! Still, I could have handled that if Shonda would have called it what it was, men abusing their positions, and 'knowing best' for the little women. Shonda calling this "love" made me sick. Shonda's ideas that "Addison is at fault, not dreamy Derek" and trying to cram that down throats, made me know for sure that the woman is an emotional cripple.
The ferry was really the "Why the hell am I watching this again?" moment for me. It had such poor production, such clunky lines and scenes, and the characters actions were just nonsense in a triage situation. Hell Shonda, didn't you ever watch MASH? Everyone knows what triage means, and it doesn't mean helping one person and then riding with them to the hospital. It doesn't mean babysitting while people are dying all around you. Leaving Christina behind instead of the on-probation Izzy was another WTF? Those episodes were as bad as it can possibly get and still remain on primetime TV.
Oops, this is longer than I thought--sorry!
In general then, the intern interactions, the humor, the pithiness, and every single thing that made them interesting people to me, that made watching this crap worth it, in spite of the so called soul-mate crap, is just gone. The one-liners used to be so organic (the stuff when Mer's one night stands passed by Izzy and George for example,) is just gone. Now we have Chri9stina's eyebrows shaved off by a fashionable, elegant woman who has apparently accepted her, at long last, into the family. NO FUCKING WAY. It was a cheap laugh, and that's what this show has been reduced to now.
The actors are really good. I don't think they are good enough for me to keep watching justified adultery, and abuse and childishness masquerading as "true love" though. It might be fun to watch for the train wreck factor though. So bad it's a good laugh?
#9
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 8:40 PM
Sadly, I am done with Grey's Anatomy. I used to be a HUGE fan, but after the second half of season three, I'm not watching anymore. I think the show jupmed the shark with Meredith coming back from the dead. IMO, any time a serious drama does a "heaven" sequence that means it's pretty much downhill from there on in...and so sad that a show with so much promise crashed and burned so soon. I find that this often happens with shows that get too popular too quickly -ie Desperate Housewives (which is actually a lot better again now), Lost, etc. The writers become more obsessed with the ratings than the quality of the writing, and end up sabotaging their own shows.
I will pretend that Grey's ended in the middle of Season 3, when Meredith and Derek reunited at Joe's, before the horror of Gizzie, before the near death experience, the multitude of deaths, the godawful Alex-Ava storyline, the departure of Addison, and horible way the writers handled Alex/Addison...The ways in which the writers fundamentally screwed everything up is just mind boggling.
RIP, Grey's. I feel sad for the cast, which is (for the most part) amazing. Ellen Pompeo, Patrick Dempsey, Chandra Wilson, Sandrah Oh, Justin Chambers - all of them are getting shortchanged. I hope they all move on and do different projects because they are all terrific. I love Kate Walsh too but Private Practice looks pretty awful. I will give it a try because of KW, but I don't think that show is going to last long.
I will pretend that Grey's ended in the middle of Season 3, when Meredith and Derek reunited at Joe's, before the horror of Gizzie, before the near death experience, the multitude of deaths, the godawful Alex-Ava storyline, the departure of Addison, and horible way the writers handled Alex/Addison...The ways in which the writers fundamentally screwed everything up is just mind boggling.
RIP, Grey's. I feel sad for the cast, which is (for the most part) amazing. Ellen Pompeo, Patrick Dempsey, Chandra Wilson, Sandrah Oh, Justin Chambers - all of them are getting shortchanged. I hope they all move on and do different projects because they are all terrific. I love Kate Walsh too but Private Practice looks pretty awful. I will give it a try because of KW, but I don't think that show is going to last long.
#10
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 9:19 PM
I also think the ferry arc was the beginning of the end. I actually thought the first half of the season was good with the exception of Derek and Meredith. Surprisingly for a soap opera, they broke all the rules of how to handle a "super couple." Yes you put your couples through all kinds of obstacles but when it's over you give your audience a payoff - lots of fun, lots of sex, lots of happiness. And then you move to the next obstacle. They did none of that for Derek and Meredith. I've never liked the couple but even I expected that and was shocked that it never came.
I also think Derek this season because just Meredith's boyfriend and less of a character in his own right when storyline seemingly could have written itself. The end of his marriage came with a..oh it's over, next. And nothing of substance ever materialized with Mark.
And the pile on of Meredith was just too ridiculous. Once you fight death, what more can they heap on you? It appears they'll keep thinking of things.
They should have let up on Christina and Burke after the engagement - allow some growth and change on both sides. This is the couple that got me hooked and now they are over.
By far, the worst thing that happened to this show was Gizzy. I mean I could handle 3 years of Derek and Meredith despite the fact that I liked neither. I have always liked George and liked Izzie up to the aftermath of the Denny fiasco then it was hit or miss. But I never hated the character. Now I can't stand either one. I hate them both with a passion. HATE. Can't stand to see them together on my TV screen and can barely even stand them with other people either. They are ruined. To me Shonda doesn't notice what's happening on the screen. And I think the characters that come in later are the step children. So she felt she could just do this because well it's her beloved interns. Never mind Callie. She's an afterthough. Well I loved that afterthought more than I ever like George or Izzie and it pains me to see what they've done to her.
I could just go on and on and on. The acting saves this show. But it's really not enough for me anymore. I continued to watch for Addison. Now I just hope and pray her show stands a chance and that I'll get at least a season or two before it is totally ruined as well.
I also think Derek this season because just Meredith's boyfriend and less of a character in his own right when storyline seemingly could have written itself. The end of his marriage came with a..oh it's over, next. And nothing of substance ever materialized with Mark.
And the pile on of Meredith was just too ridiculous. Once you fight death, what more can they heap on you? It appears they'll keep thinking of things.
They should have let up on Christina and Burke after the engagement - allow some growth and change on both sides. This is the couple that got me hooked and now they are over.
By far, the worst thing that happened to this show was Gizzy. I mean I could handle 3 years of Derek and Meredith despite the fact that I liked neither. I have always liked George and liked Izzie up to the aftermath of the Denny fiasco then it was hit or miss. But I never hated the character. Now I can't stand either one. I hate them both with a passion. HATE. Can't stand to see them together on my TV screen and can barely even stand them with other people either. They are ruined. To me Shonda doesn't notice what's happening on the screen. And I think the characters that come in later are the step children. So she felt she could just do this because well it's her beloved interns. Never mind Callie. She's an afterthough. Well I loved that afterthought more than I ever like George or Izzie and it pains me to see what they've done to her.
I could just go on and on and on. The acting saves this show. But it's really not enough for me anymore. I continued to watch for Addison. Now I just hope and pray her show stands a chance and that I'll get at least a season or two before it is totally ruined as well.
Edited by utrippin, May 21, 2007 @ 9:30 PM.
#11
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 10:03 PM
Honestly, I think it started going downhill after George slept with Meredith.
For 1.5 seasons (in GA time, what 5 months?), they wrote George as having this huge crush on Meredith. Which ultimately led to his bedroom pledge and subsequent hook-up. I thought that was rushed....big time. Nonetheless, then he pouts for the last 1/4 of the season (because he "still has feelings for her"), yet in the finale he tells Meredith that he knew she didn't feel that way he just wanted to give it a try. This made no sense to me- and add to the fact the whole Denny fiasco (never really liked him) and I thought the last part of Season 2 lost some steam.
Then came Season 3, which started off well, but then by the 9th episode or so, it got real "drama-heavy." Sure there's a little comedy every here and again, but it's not the same. It really hit bottom with the last episode of the NDE. Give it a rest...
Recaps:
I do not agree with how Gizzie came about, but I don't hate them like the majority (or so it seems). In fact I prefer George & Izzie to George & Callie. Callie is beautiful, they just don't look "right" together.
Thought the Izzie's daughter storyline was sort of thrown in there randomly.
I don't even want to get started on MerDer (:-()
And I'm glad Burke realized how he was treating Yang, I wish there were more stable (or normal) relationships.
I'll continue to watch in hopes that Season 4 can return to the level it was at during Season 1/2.
For 1.5 seasons (in GA time, what 5 months?), they wrote George as having this huge crush on Meredith. Which ultimately led to his bedroom pledge and subsequent hook-up. I thought that was rushed....big time. Nonetheless, then he pouts for the last 1/4 of the season (because he "still has feelings for her"), yet in the finale he tells Meredith that he knew she didn't feel that way he just wanted to give it a try. This made no sense to me- and add to the fact the whole Denny fiasco (never really liked him) and I thought the last part of Season 2 lost some steam.
Then came Season 3, which started off well, but then by the 9th episode or so, it got real "drama-heavy." Sure there's a little comedy every here and again, but it's not the same. It really hit bottom with the last episode of the NDE. Give it a rest...
Recaps:
I do not agree with how Gizzie came about, but I don't hate them like the majority (or so it seems). In fact I prefer George & Izzie to George & Callie. Callie is beautiful, they just don't look "right" together.
Thought the Izzie's daughter storyline was sort of thrown in there randomly.
I don't even want to get started on MerDer (:-()
And I'm glad Burke realized how he was treating Yang, I wish there were more stable (or normal) relationships.
I'll continue to watch in hopes that Season 4 can return to the level it was at during Season 1/2.
#12
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 10:23 PM
I really think that the move to Thursdays and the pressure of being ABCs Golden Goose was too much for the show. It's like Shonda lost confidence in what got her there, and felt it necessary to make the show into something it wasn't. Everyone pinpoints the same moment in the show, it seems. The second half of the season may have been obviously tarnished by the ridiculous stunts of the ferryboat and the Miserys of Meredith, but I think the death blow was a loss of focus on the small stuff - inconsistent characters, wandering unfocused (or dropped) storylines, patients who were just 200-lb anvils with no charm or soul. mattsmom is correct - the only memorable patient this season was Benjamin, because he was fantastically written and even a little bit subtle with his message. Man, I would kill for patients like Mr Levangie again. Or Jackie ("wear underwear with your pantyhose") - she made me cry, and I don't usually cry watching TV.
Sure, Season 2 had it's Code Black hyperbole, but I forgave that - it was the Super Bowl ep, and even that episode had those unique "Grey's" moments, both funny and poignant that made it a winner - George rallying Bailey, Meredith thinking about having to pee, the somber shower scene, and the Last Kiss speech. Then they got right back down to business in Yesterday.
Season 3 was all "Code Black" with no "that's not the "she" he's looking for" to redeem it.
Sure, Season 2 had it's Code Black hyperbole, but I forgave that - it was the Super Bowl ep, and even that episode had those unique "Grey's" moments, both funny and poignant that made it a winner - George rallying Bailey, Meredith thinking about having to pee, the somber shower scene, and the Last Kiss speech. Then they got right back down to business in Yesterday.
Season 3 was all "Code Black" with no "that's not the "she" he's looking for" to redeem it.
#13
Posted May 21, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
To me, the show went off the rails with the bomb episode and Meredith is almost blown up and Derek STILL wouldn't leave Addison.
That to me is when the show lost a lot of credibility to me and then we crashed with the Denny situation. How are you supposed to ever fire any character on the show when you've set the standard that you can cut an LVAD and steal a heart and still be allowed to work at the place? That means if they ever had a character get fired, they would have to do something more insane than that.
That to me is when the show lost a lot of credibility to me and then we crashed with the Denny situation. How are you supposed to ever fire any character on the show when you've set the standard that you can cut an LVAD and steal a heart and still be allowed to work at the place? That means if they ever had a character get fired, they would have to do something more insane than that.
#14
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:02 AM
Cat Collector, huge thanks for setting up this thread. It was getting pretty OT in the Writer's Blog thread.
I think that the show started going seriously downhill at the end of season 2-- although I didn't recognise it at the time because the shittiness was disguised by the season 2 finale with all its high drama. The Denny/LVAD thing was just ridiculous, but I was still naive enough to think that they might actually have kicked Izzie out of the hospital. This season was still bearable until Where the Boys Are, which I hated, and then it consequently hit rock-bottom with the Ferryboat three-parter. Well, I thought it was rock bottom, until the rocks themselves started crumbling and we got pitched into the fiery depths of hell.
What I miss most about this show, though, is really caring about what happens to the characters. I used to like them all for different reasons, and now the unthinkable has happened, and I don't even really care about Alex anymore, since he "fell madly in love" with Ava (as Shonda put it). George is a gormless little worm, Meredith is like the Plague on Wheels (everyone around her dies! How tragic!), Cristina may get her mojo back next year, but too late, and there are no words to describe the character assassination going on with Izzie and Derek.
The only thing that I can say has gotten progressively better on this show is the music, which is more subtly blended in, generally speaking, than it was in season 1 when it was a little jarring.
See, I wouldn't even mind this if they had set some sort of precedent, I guess- that it was clear to the viewers that they weren't even going to pretend, from the very beginning, that this was the real world. I could've swallowed LVADgate if they hadn't had Meredith had that huge "career changing" meeting in season one when she popped a glove and didn't tell anyone, or if they hadn't constantly peppered S1 with references to "we can't do [this and that], we'd get kicked out of the program". It pissed me off when Izzie and Cristina did their stupid unauthorised autopsy (HOW did they think they could pretend they didn't OPEN THE MAN UP and stitch him back together?) as well, but I could at least believe that Bailey would cover for them.How are you supposed to ever fire any character on the show when you've set the standard that you can cut an LVAD and steal a heart and still be allowed to work at the place?
I think that the show started going seriously downhill at the end of season 2-- although I didn't recognise it at the time because the shittiness was disguised by the season 2 finale with all its high drama. The Denny/LVAD thing was just ridiculous, but I was still naive enough to think that they might actually have kicked Izzie out of the hospital. This season was still bearable until Where the Boys Are, which I hated, and then it consequently hit rock-bottom with the Ferryboat three-parter. Well, I thought it was rock bottom, until the rocks themselves started crumbling and we got pitched into the fiery depths of hell.
I miss this as well. A few months ago I rewatched that episode where Izzie and Alex are put in charge of a bunch of patients, Alex gets vomited on (heh) and runs off to change, but never comes back because his pager is down, so Izzie has to run around covering like two million patients. And what's awful is that you would never see this happening today. Do they even look busy at work anymore? The show will focus on two patients and episode who have three throwaway, cutesy, anvilicious lines, and then they're never heard from again. Like Maraschino and mattsmom pointed out, there have been very few memorable patients this season, and Benjamin was back in what, 303? The fact that I can't recall a single patient's name (except Ava/Rebecca) for the rest of the season, just their disease, while I can remember a whole bunch from seasons 1 and 2 just pinpoints how low they've gone. Not to mention that when dissecting sides in the spoiler thread, the first thing that usually gets sussed out is the Anvil of the Week, so that we can figure out who the doctors are.Between preparing the patients for surgery, doing surgeries and post-surgical rounds they can ride elevators, have lunch, bitch about work or their pathetic love life. If there is time left some sex in an on-call room would be nice too.
What I miss most about this show, though, is really caring about what happens to the characters. I used to like them all for different reasons, and now the unthinkable has happened, and I don't even really care about Alex anymore, since he "fell madly in love" with Ava (as Shonda put it). George is a gormless little worm, Meredith is like the Plague on Wheels (everyone around her dies! How tragic!), Cristina may get her mojo back next year, but too late, and there are no words to describe the character assassination going on with Izzie and Derek.
The only thing that I can say has gotten progressively better on this show is the music, which is more subtly blended in, generally speaking, than it was in season 1 when it was a little jarring.
#15
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:17 AM
Shonda Rhimes is Carrie...from the so titled film starring Sissy Spacek (1976).
LINK
Shonda was smart, but not what SHE viewed as "pretty".
Shonda believed boys did not want her, so they did not.
Shonda wants her revenge on those bullies...especially those hideous pretty, skinny girls.
Shonda gets a TV series and views it as the perfect opportunity to get that revenge.
Shonda is smart, so he hides her true motives for the first season, but those pretty people...they ALL must suffer, wretchedly. She just can't let this be known...until...
Season Two...she still needs to keep it a bit hidden, but how much fun it is to make that snotty Meredith skinny bitch have to grovel before that (secretly, JERK) dreamy fellow (OK, so Shonda goes back and forth on her love/hate with men...the women are the ones she really wants to hurt). And ohh, that horrible blonde underwear model..we really need to torture the actress, Katherine Heigl, who plays her, by giving her the most preposteerous hateful stories and make millions detest her.
Season Three...Shonda is not smart ENOUGH to realize that Kate Walsh is really one of the fighters...Kate wooes Shonda and the fans...Shonda thinks she has the upper hand, though, and designates Kate as the star of a spin-off, wherein Shonda can humiliate another one of those skinny pretty ones by making her believe she would be a star, finally...when in acuality, she would become pathetic. And, likely, soon to be unemployed. That evil Katherine Heigl will need to be punished so deeply that she can't even get ONE SCENE for an Emmy Reel. ANd TRK? that little faggot!!! Making Shonda's idealized man (no not Mc\Dreamy) Isaiah Washington look bad.
[[[uh oh.. I started channeling Shona directly!]]]
ohhh that little faggot TRK needs to be punished, too. I am going to make him so insufferable that millions will hate him, along with Izzie.
I, Shonda, have stopped identifying with any of my characters...Callie, that fat cow....is not the same kind of fat and objectionable as I am, so I must humiliate her, too. Make her pathetic. I, Shonda, liked Cristina at one point, but she is actually too skinny and pretty, too. Need to make her pathetic, but damn, that Sandra Oh person keeps playing the crap I am giving her and twisting it into something sympathetic!!!
FUCK ALL OF THEM!!! I AM BURNING DOWN THE NEIGHBORHOOD!!!
HA HA HA HA!!! I have contracts and money for at least another seven years. I have an adopted daughter I am brainwashing to live only for me!!!
This was my PLAN, all along! How stupid can those idiot viewers be!!!!
Mwa ha ha Bwa HA HA!!!! I am rich! I am acclaimed!!! I have good contracts!!!
And I have personally roped in all those pretty actor people, and DESTROYED THEM!!!!
God, I'm good.
[[[OK...I have myself back...I apologize for typos...but even I can't stand to read this over again]]]
LINK
Shonda was smart, but not what SHE viewed as "pretty".
Shonda believed boys did not want her, so they did not.
Shonda wants her revenge on those bullies...especially those hideous pretty, skinny girls.
Shonda gets a TV series and views it as the perfect opportunity to get that revenge.
Shonda is smart, so he hides her true motives for the first season, but those pretty people...they ALL must suffer, wretchedly. She just can't let this be known...until...
Season Two...she still needs to keep it a bit hidden, but how much fun it is to make that snotty Meredith skinny bitch have to grovel before that (secretly, JERK) dreamy fellow (OK, so Shonda goes back and forth on her love/hate with men...the women are the ones she really wants to hurt). And ohh, that horrible blonde underwear model..we really need to torture the actress, Katherine Heigl, who plays her, by giving her the most preposteerous hateful stories and make millions detest her.
Season Three...Shonda is not smart ENOUGH to realize that Kate Walsh is really one of the fighters...Kate wooes Shonda and the fans...Shonda thinks she has the upper hand, though, and designates Kate as the star of a spin-off, wherein Shonda can humiliate another one of those skinny pretty ones by making her believe she would be a star, finally...when in acuality, she would become pathetic. And, likely, soon to be unemployed. That evil Katherine Heigl will need to be punished so deeply that she can't even get ONE SCENE for an Emmy Reel. ANd TRK? that little faggot!!! Making Shonda's idealized man (no not Mc\Dreamy) Isaiah Washington look bad.
[[[uh oh.. I started channeling Shona directly!]]]
ohhh that little faggot TRK needs to be punished, too. I am going to make him so insufferable that millions will hate him, along with Izzie.
I, Shonda, have stopped identifying with any of my characters...Callie, that fat cow....is not the same kind of fat and objectionable as I am, so I must humiliate her, too. Make her pathetic. I, Shonda, liked Cristina at one point, but she is actually too skinny and pretty, too. Need to make her pathetic, but damn, that Sandra Oh person keeps playing the crap I am giving her and twisting it into something sympathetic!!!
FUCK ALL OF THEM!!! I AM BURNING DOWN THE NEIGHBORHOOD!!!
HA HA HA HA!!! I have contracts and money for at least another seven years. I have an adopted daughter I am brainwashing to live only for me!!!
This was my PLAN, all along! How stupid can those idiot viewers be!!!!
Mwa ha ha Bwa HA HA!!!! I am rich! I am acclaimed!!! I have good contracts!!!
And I have personally roped in all those pretty actor people, and DESTROYED THEM!!!!
God, I'm good.
[[[OK...I have myself back...I apologize for typos...but even I can't stand to read this over again]]]
#16
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:20 AM
OMG...thankyou so much for starting this thread!!! I have been dying to compare and contrast the seasons :D :D :D
But you know for the first time...I may not have a lot to say b/c all of you have pretty much have said it...but I will, as always put my two cents in!
I was a huge grey's fan (oh man I said was...I am still getting used to the past tense)...anyway I was the dork who would sit there sunday nights and watch grey's...heck i would even re-watch the epi's over and over again. I remember when Grey's moved to thursdays and like Maraschino I felt it just felt wrong...so wrong...but I hung in there because of all the characters (except for burke and george and izzy...never really liked them). I realize now that the show started going down hill for me when the show moved to its new time slot. I mean I hated when Mer was blown up in season two, when she slept with george (yarg) and when the writers did the whole "who is mere going to choose" thing...oh and the Denny thing was annoying, but I hung on for S3 and it started out Ok...nothing major. The fall was good (loved mere on morphine...holy crap I love Ellen... and of course Sandra...gotta have some sandra) but then the DEATH toll started to rise...George's dad, Mere's mom...Mere...Step mommy and I would just sit there and shake my head...screaming "why Shonda, Why?" I was such a fool to believe shonda when she said that drowning mere would lead to better things for our dark and twisty girl but it didn't...if anything things got worse.
Then of course there is Derek...good god it took me months to get over the whole whore calling incident from season 2 but in S3 he got progressively worse. I was just starting to like it again because of the relationship between Susan and Mere but then shonda did it again and killed StepM. I will forever and always believe that killing Susan was the most pointless and stupid thing ever to happen on grey's...oh well except for GIzzie of course, but that goes without saying (double yarg) :D Then of course the season 3 finale (don't worry I have ranted elsewhere) which just did me in...Now I think back to season one and I just miss the humour, the fun, hell the SEX...not Gizzie sex...I mean you have a guy like eric dane and we never see him naked anymore :D The writing was way better in the previous seasons and now its like everyone has lost contact with the show and the characters we have grown to love. Sometimes I wonder what the show would be like if say Denny hadn't died (probably no gizzie) or if Mer just swam (no frakin limbo crap) or if thatcher used big boy words (then mere's daddy issues would subside)...but hey I can wonder forever and nothing would change the fact that Season three is by far the worst out of all the seasons.
on a final note the only thing...and seriously...the only thing at this point that I love throughout all the seasons is the Mer/cris friendship...love those two :D
OH YEAH This is my first top of the page post...I am not worthy :D
But you know for the first time...I may not have a lot to say b/c all of you have pretty much have said it...but I will, as always put my two cents in!
I was a huge grey's fan (oh man I said was...I am still getting used to the past tense)...anyway I was the dork who would sit there sunday nights and watch grey's...heck i would even re-watch the epi's over and over again. I remember when Grey's moved to thursdays and like Maraschino I felt it just felt wrong...so wrong...but I hung in there because of all the characters (except for burke and george and izzy...never really liked them). I realize now that the show started going down hill for me when the show moved to its new time slot. I mean I hated when Mer was blown up in season two, when she slept with george (yarg) and when the writers did the whole "who is mere going to choose" thing...oh and the Denny thing was annoying, but I hung on for S3 and it started out Ok...nothing major. The fall was good (loved mere on morphine...holy crap I love Ellen... and of course Sandra...gotta have some sandra) but then the DEATH toll started to rise...George's dad, Mere's mom...Mere...Step mommy and I would just sit there and shake my head...screaming "why Shonda, Why?" I was such a fool to believe shonda when she said that drowning mere would lead to better things for our dark and twisty girl but it didn't...if anything things got worse.
Then of course there is Derek...good god it took me months to get over the whole whore calling incident from season 2 but in S3 he got progressively worse. I was just starting to like it again because of the relationship between Susan and Mere but then shonda did it again and killed StepM. I will forever and always believe that killing Susan was the most pointless and stupid thing ever to happen on grey's...oh well except for GIzzie of course, but that goes without saying (double yarg) :D Then of course the season 3 finale (don't worry I have ranted elsewhere) which just did me in...Now I think back to season one and I just miss the humour, the fun, hell the SEX...not Gizzie sex...I mean you have a guy like eric dane and we never see him naked anymore :D The writing was way better in the previous seasons and now its like everyone has lost contact with the show and the characters we have grown to love. Sometimes I wonder what the show would be like if say Denny hadn't died (probably no gizzie) or if Mer just swam (no frakin limbo crap) or if thatcher used big boy words (then mere's daddy issues would subside)...but hey I can wonder forever and nothing would change the fact that Season three is by far the worst out of all the seasons.
on a final note the only thing...and seriously...the only thing at this point that I love throughout all the seasons is the Mer/cris friendship...love those two :D
OH YEAH This is my first top of the page post...I am not worthy :D
Edited by TVBambi, May 22, 2007 @ 12:21 AM.
#17
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:22 AM
This show especially at the end of season 2 and into season 3 has made me as a viewer so many leaps in order not to quit it completely.
Number one, I never believed with the whole Izzy LVAD that none of the interns were going to blab on Izzy because it didn't give jibe with the idea that these people have worked so hard to get to where they are and are going to throw it all away for a friendship four or five months. It defeats the purpose of "the game" and the other surgeons being your competition. I think the bigger cliffhanger should've been that one of the interns ended up telling the Chief and trying to figure out who it was.
I think the show lost a lot of its edge when it dulled the competition aspect and they all became a family and blah blah blah hand holding loveliness.
Then the writers just came up with things that made no sense at all. Burke having his wedding the day after exams was dumb but the fact that barely anybody was at the bachelor party but somehow there is a full church the next day? What the hell. Some of those people had to have shown up the previous night.
Number one, I never believed with the whole Izzy LVAD that none of the interns were going to blab on Izzy because it didn't give jibe with the idea that these people have worked so hard to get to where they are and are going to throw it all away for a friendship four or five months. It defeats the purpose of "the game" and the other surgeons being your competition. I think the bigger cliffhanger should've been that one of the interns ended up telling the Chief and trying to figure out who it was.
I think the show lost a lot of its edge when it dulled the competition aspect and they all became a family and blah blah blah hand holding loveliness.
Then the writers just came up with things that made no sense at all. Burke having his wedding the day after exams was dumb but the fact that barely anybody was at the bachelor party but somehow there is a full church the next day? What the hell. Some of those people had to have shown up the previous night.
#18
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:27 AM
I personally like the family aspect, but I think it would work better if the interns had friends outside of the hospital, and then they realised that the only people who knew what this was like was other doctors. The only SL we've had even remotely resembling this was Izzie's ten-minute boyfriend Hank in season 1. (Honestly, I've never really bought that Izzie and George, at the very least, never even mentioned friends out of the hospital in s1-- as WA natives, surely they would know anyone else in Seattle?)I think the show lost a lot of its edge when it dulled the competition aspect and they all became a family and blah blah blah hand holding loveliness.
#19
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 12:39 AM
I'm not sure what to chalk it all up to - probably a number of things - but I do have a few ideas. I think the move to Thursdays caused Shonda to think everything had to be bigger and more explosive (sometimes literally) in order to get the ratings and compete with CSI. I'm sure she was under pressure from network brass, etc. but it's just a cardinal rule that you dance with the guy who brought you and the show clearly didn't follow that. All the small moments, the memorable patients, the quirky but not outlandish medical cases got lost in the need to shock the audience.
I also think Shonda let the power and the $10 million paycheck go to her head. If you listened to the podcasts last year, you will recall that several people were featured on each one. Usually at least one of the cast members was there to talk about his/her character and once they played a portion of the interview at the Paley Festival. Now it's all Shonda and Betsy with their fangirl squee. And apparently no one sets standards for the writer's blog. Marti Noxon's ridiculous ramblings were probably the worst, but I also don't need to hear the writer's entire personal history and how it fits into the story. Give me some insight into the thought process behind this episode, but for God's sake (this is directed at you, Shonda) don't tell me what I thought or should have thought about the episode and don't rewrite history. I watched the episode and I'm not a moron. I know what happened. And don't tell me how great it was and how much YOU loved it. That's for me to decide.
Third, I think Shonda and the other writers got so wrapped up in the need for contrived, over the top plots that they forgot who their characters really were. Would season one or two Meredith have dumped Derek because Christina didn't get married? I don't think so. During the last three or so episodes, we saw her swing back and forth among flirting with Derek, asking him not to give up on her, ignoring him completely and pushing him away, usually all in the same episode. As far as we know she doesn't suffer from multiple personality disorder so pick one please.
Finally (I'm sure there are more but I'm tired) everyone got sloppy. My favorite example of this, which I've bitched about on other threads, is the conversation Meredith had with Ellis at the nursing home when Ellis first became lucid. Ellis told Meredith that she didn't have to go to medical school if she didn't want to, indicating that she had been pushing her daughter toward a career as a physician. But way back in the pilot, Meredith made it very clear that her mother didn't want her to become a doctor. She told George that when she told her mother she wanted to go to medical school, she tried to talk her out of it and said she didn't have what it takes. That's a HUGE difference and it says something about the relationship between Meredith and Ellis. If the viewers caught the discrepancy, why didn't the writers, producers, someone? There were plenty of other things that could have caused the fight that sent Meredith to Europe but the writers were too lazy to keep their story consistent and thought we wouldn't notice. We did.
So many people on this board and others really care about this show and have given a great deal of thought to it. I just wish TPTB would turn things around before it's too late, if it isn't already.
Enigma, you forgot about Finn. No, never mind, he was always at the hospital, bringing lunches and teddy bears and bad news about sick dogs.
cpuffin, oh my God that was hysterical. And sadly on point. That whole "we hate you if you have it all and don't want you to watch the show" thing was pretty revealing.
I also think Shonda let the power and the $10 million paycheck go to her head. If you listened to the podcasts last year, you will recall that several people were featured on each one. Usually at least one of the cast members was there to talk about his/her character and once they played a portion of the interview at the Paley Festival. Now it's all Shonda and Betsy with their fangirl squee. And apparently no one sets standards for the writer's blog. Marti Noxon's ridiculous ramblings were probably the worst, but I also don't need to hear the writer's entire personal history and how it fits into the story. Give me some insight into the thought process behind this episode, but for God's sake (this is directed at you, Shonda) don't tell me what I thought or should have thought about the episode and don't rewrite history. I watched the episode and I'm not a moron. I know what happened. And don't tell me how great it was and how much YOU loved it. That's for me to decide.
Third, I think Shonda and the other writers got so wrapped up in the need for contrived, over the top plots that they forgot who their characters really were. Would season one or two Meredith have dumped Derek because Christina didn't get married? I don't think so. During the last three or so episodes, we saw her swing back and forth among flirting with Derek, asking him not to give up on her, ignoring him completely and pushing him away, usually all in the same episode. As far as we know she doesn't suffer from multiple personality disorder so pick one please.
Finally (I'm sure there are more but I'm tired) everyone got sloppy. My favorite example of this, which I've bitched about on other threads, is the conversation Meredith had with Ellis at the nursing home when Ellis first became lucid. Ellis told Meredith that she didn't have to go to medical school if she didn't want to, indicating that she had been pushing her daughter toward a career as a physician. But way back in the pilot, Meredith made it very clear that her mother didn't want her to become a doctor. She told George that when she told her mother she wanted to go to medical school, she tried to talk her out of it and said she didn't have what it takes. That's a HUGE difference and it says something about the relationship between Meredith and Ellis. If the viewers caught the discrepancy, why didn't the writers, producers, someone? There were plenty of other things that could have caused the fight that sent Meredith to Europe but the writers were too lazy to keep their story consistent and thought we wouldn't notice. We did.
So many people on this board and others really care about this show and have given a great deal of thought to it. I just wish TPTB would turn things around before it's too late, if it isn't already.
The only SL we've had even remotely resembling this was Izzie's ten-minute boyfriend Hank in season 1.
Enigma, you forgot about Finn. No, never mind, he was always at the hospital, bringing lunches and teddy bears and bad news about sick dogs.
cpuffin, oh my God that was hysterical. And sadly on point. That whole "we hate you if you have it all and don't want you to watch the show" thing was pretty revealing.
Edited by Cat Collector, May 22, 2007 @ 12:53 AM.
#20
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 1:06 AM
Cat Collector, you said:
The only reason that did not bother me is that Alzheimers makes people do things like that. My mom had it for the last eight years of her life, and for a few of those years, she would say things that were complete contradtions to major life themes she had back in the old days. Lucid days or not, the brain has been damaged...so it is not like accident-caused amnesia disappearing (which can happen)...Alzheimers destroys pieces of the brain as it progresses, so even if a piece that was unavailable for a few years seems to come back, it is not coming back in its former state. I have spent much of my adult life being an actor (not starring...just working). My mom was ragingly jealous back in the old days. In her "lucid times" during her last years, she was my biggest fan. Made no sense, but it was quite healing, anyway!
edited for typos, plus: LOL! glad you enjoyed my SHonda channeling! I had to smoke three cigarettes after the session was over.
Finally (I'm sure there are more but I'm tired) everyone got sloppy. My favorite example of this, which I've bitched about on other threads, is the conversation Meredith had with Ellis at the nursing home when Ellis first became lucid. Ellis told Meredith that she didn't have to go to medical school if she didn't want to, indicating that she had been pushing her daughter toward a career as a physician. But way back in the pilot, Meredith made it very clear that her mother didn't want her to become a doctor. She told George that when she told her mother she wanted to go to medical school, she tried to talk her out of it and said she didn't have what it takes. That's a HUGE difference and it says something about the relationship between Meredith and Ellis.
The only reason that did not bother me is that Alzheimers makes people do things like that. My mom had it for the last eight years of her life, and for a few of those years, she would say things that were complete contradtions to major life themes she had back in the old days. Lucid days or not, the brain has been damaged...so it is not like accident-caused amnesia disappearing (which can happen)...Alzheimers destroys pieces of the brain as it progresses, so even if a piece that was unavailable for a few years seems to come back, it is not coming back in its former state. I have spent much of my adult life being an actor (not starring...just working). My mom was ragingly jealous back in the old days. In her "lucid times" during her last years, she was my biggest fan. Made no sense, but it was quite healing, anyway!
edited for typos, plus: LOL! glad you enjoyed my SHonda channeling! I had to smoke three cigarettes after the session was over.
Edited by cpuffin, May 22, 2007 @ 1:16 AM.
#21
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 1:14 AM
Thanks for that explanation, cpuffin. Blessedly, I've had no personal experience with Alzheimer's so I wasn't aware of that. But it makes sense.
And don't smoke. Very bad for you. I recommend alcohol, of which I seem to be needing a lot lately. Wonder why . . .
And don't smoke. Very bad for you. I recommend alcohol, of which I seem to be needing a lot lately. Wonder why . . .
#22
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 1:20 AM
Cat Collector said:
LOL!!! Good idea.And don't smoke. Very bad for you. I recommend alcohol, of which I seem to be needing a lot lately. Wonder why . . .
#23
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 2:00 AM
As for Ellis pushing Mer into med school-- in the pilot:
There's a difference between Ellis wanting Mer to be a surgeon vs. a doctor. I can completely buy her wanting Mer to go to med school, but not become a surgeon and pick a less demanding arena. That quote is kind of ambiguous, really; Mer might have announced plans to become a surgeon (before actually being in med school) and Ellis protested that, rather than med school itself.
As for the writers getting sloppy, though, I definitely agree.
MEREDITH: When I told my mother that I wanted to go to medical school, she tried to talk me out of it. Said I didn’t have what it takes to be a surgeon. That I’d never make it. So the way I see it, superhero sounds pretty damn good.
There's a difference between Ellis wanting Mer to be a surgeon vs. a doctor. I can completely buy her wanting Mer to go to med school, but not become a surgeon and pick a less demanding arena. That quote is kind of ambiguous, really; Mer might have announced plans to become a surgeon (before actually being in med school) and Ellis protested that, rather than med school itself.
As for the writers getting sloppy, though, I definitely agree.
#24
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 5:00 AM
I just dont get (read: understand) the need to break up the main couple at the end of each season. This seems to be an American TV formula but the majority of viewers here dont seem to subscribe to that. So, I was looking for something fresh - have a couple work and play together. As much as I love KW I think the whole extension of her contract threw TPTB (remember, Shonda spent a lot of years writing 14 episodes; Addison was not that huge a factor then). The ferry boat arc was the final nail in the coffin - and I cannot lay the blame for that squarely on Shonda's shoulders. From what I heard ABC honchos 'forced' her to extend the storyline as it was proving to be too expensive for a day's shoot. And to make matters worse Shonda Rhimes (the showrunner no less) wrote the episode(s). She should be ashamed of herself; being trumped by the less experienced Eric Buchman who wrote the wonderfully executed Great Expectations!
I loved Wishin' and Hopin', Six Days (1 & 2), Let the Angels Commit and Oh, The Guilt; so its not as if they cannot write good episodes. Its just the lack of consistency. Could it be because they have so many writers on staff? Is it the pressure to live up to Thursday night? Is it the pressure on Shonda to prove she is worth the $10m she was paid? It could be a combination of all - I just dont know whether they can come back from this debacle that was Season 3.
I loved Wishin' and Hopin', Six Days (1 & 2), Let the Angels Commit and Oh, The Guilt; so its not as if they cannot write good episodes. Its just the lack of consistency. Could it be because they have so many writers on staff? Is it the pressure to live up to Thursday night? Is it the pressure on Shonda to prove she is worth the $10m she was paid? It could be a combination of all - I just dont know whether they can come back from this debacle that was Season 3.
#25
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 5:33 AM
I thought they just said they weren't willing to blow their budget on one episode, and if they wanted that SL to happen, she had to extend it or cut back. So I am willing to blame Shonda for the Ferryboat fiasco-- she could've just cut the hugeass, somewhat unnecessary shots of all the carnage (which is what proved to be the biggest expense), or changed the SL altogether.From what I heard ABC honchos 'forced' her to extend the storyline as it was proving to be too expensive for a day's shoot
But ITA that they DO have some good episodes in the third season; my problem is that they were all in the first half of the year.
Edited by Enigma13, May 22, 2007 @ 5:34 AM.
#26
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 8:22 AM
ZeeZee, you make some really good points. I've complained for a while about the size of the writing staff (and the cast.) With so many writers doing just one or two episodes, it's hard to maintain a consistent tone. Other successful shows seem to have a core group of writers who do several episodes each year, often working in teams. And it really disturbs me that with the exception of Time Has Come Today, I've hated every episode written by Shonda. Until this year, I've liked all her episodes.
Shonda's own inconsistency is a problem too. Instead of planning her season and sticking with it, she lets other factors influence her (such as falling in love with Kate Walsh) and the story suffers for it. I love KW and thought Addison added a lot in some ways, but keeping her around changed the way Derek and Meredith were written and I thought the marriage dragged out far too long. By the end of last season I was thoroughly sick of scene after scene showing Addison chasing Derek down a hall and him saying "Not now, Addison." I also take issue with her claim that season 3 has been about Meredith and Christina's friendship. That was much more a focus of seasons 1 and 2 than this year. Sometimes I think Shonda just makes this stuff up as she goes along.
Now with Derek and Meredith splitting up again, are we heading back for the angst and the longing looks? Been there, done that. Just because Shonda apparently is unable to sustain a committed relationship doesn't mean others aren't. It would be much more interesting to watch them grow as a couple and face various personal and career issues together than seeing yet another break up of this couple who supposedly have an all-consuming love.
Shonda's own inconsistency is a problem too. Instead of planning her season and sticking with it, she lets other factors influence her (such as falling in love with Kate Walsh) and the story suffers for it. I love KW and thought Addison added a lot in some ways, but keeping her around changed the way Derek and Meredith were written and I thought the marriage dragged out far too long. By the end of last season I was thoroughly sick of scene after scene showing Addison chasing Derek down a hall and him saying "Not now, Addison." I also take issue with her claim that season 3 has been about Meredith and Christina's friendship. That was much more a focus of seasons 1 and 2 than this year. Sometimes I think Shonda just makes this stuff up as she goes along.
Now with Derek and Meredith splitting up again, are we heading back for the angst and the longing looks? Been there, done that. Just because Shonda apparently is unable to sustain a committed relationship doesn't mean others aren't. It would be much more interesting to watch them grow as a couple and face various personal and career issues together than seeing yet another break up of this couple who supposedly have an all-consuming love.
#27
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 8:33 AM
I loved S1 & 2 of Grey's. I noticed that something was different from the first episode of this season. It's like they were trying hard "to be Grey's" instead of just being Grey's, if that makes sense. Then it started to improve a little, and I relaxed some. I thought the worse was behind us. Then the ferryboat fiasco came along, followed by "will they or won't they kill off the character for whom the show is named???" crap. It took a nosedive from there.
I haven't decided if I'm returning for S4 yet. I do know that I'm not really excited about it, which probably tells me that I should just give it up now. I never expected my favorite show to fall so fast.
I haven't decided if I'm returning for S4 yet. I do know that I'm not really excited about it, which probably tells me that I should just give it up now. I never expected my favorite show to fall so fast.
#28
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 9:01 AM
The only time I liked the "McDreamy" relationship was during the very first scene with Mer kicking him out of her apartment. The moment the hospital scenes began, it bugged me because he was inappropriate to Meredith at her job. The man was her boss and her teacher and I didn't find his harassing her sexy, and my opinion of him bottomed out when his wife showed up. So, the "love story" always seemed sick and childish, bordering on deeply offensive because of the work issues and his lies. When he forced himself on her at the "prom" (first shark jumping to me was the ridiculous prom BTW) I was horrified. The woman was saying no to a married asshole, her boss, her teacher, who couldn't control his dick. It made me ill.
So why did I watch?
I liked everything else really. I liked the interns and their relationships, and the acting was great. I was often so touched by the patient stories that I could ignore the sophomoric anvils and parallels and "symmetry" that Shonda insisted on force feeding her viewers. I even liked the bomb in the patient story, because I could see that happening, and I loved the paramedic, the music, Meredith's face and acting with the "what'did'I'do, what'did'I'do" whispers. I thought it was very effective and almost riveting TV. I even liked Burke and Christina at first. I hated the ridiculous Denny LVad story (shark jumping #2 for me) but I adored the scenes with Heigl and the other interns, so I let it go.
Then, Derek became even more abusive to both Mer and Addison, Burke started in with his abuse, (because yes, I do think forcing people to do things your way, making them doubt themselves, punishing them by not allowing them to do their jobs, and emotional manipulation is abuse.) The "Love you so much" bullshit is a classic line of abusers, so I found it even more offensive that they were even using the classic language! Still, I could have handled that if Shonda would have called it what it was, men abusing their positions, and 'knowing best' for the little women. Shonda calling this "love" made me sick. Shonda's ideas that "Addison is at fault, not dreamy Derek" and trying to cram that down throats, made me know for sure that the woman is an emotional cripple.
Way to sum up all my feelings about Derek and Mere from the beginning and why I DETESTED the ship even in Season 1 so to me it wasn't a matter of "destroying" MerDer later since it was always a bad move IMHO...though they did destroy the perfectly awesome Burkina.
And thank you cpuffin for that scarily accurate assessment of why Shonda is so sadistic to her characters; far more so really to the women than the men who she tries to justify even they are clearly being horrible.
#29
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 9:29 AM
To me, the basic problem of the season is that Shonda has kept everything that made S1 and S2 so great and taken it to an extreme. It's all still there, but it has morphed into the most explosive version imaginable, in order to attract even more attention. The results, IMO:
Meredith going from a neurotic lead to a suicidal drunk, whose every move is plagued by disaster and fear. Meredith and Derek's relationship has become an all-or-nothing, destructive, consuming force when it had so much potential as a game. There was a spark between them and now all that's left is ashes from every week's apocalyptic bonfire.
Cristina started out as a more private character than the others, with a lot of commitment phobias. By now, every storyline she gets is about how she can't commit. Every time another character opens their mouth in her presence, I expect her to start screaming about how she can't. I never thought I'd be saying this, but she feels far whinier than Izzie and Meredith combined to me. I love the character, but they need to make her more human and dimensional instead of relying on an old cliche.
Alex and Mark's manwhores-with-a-heart-of gold routine has just gone too far, too long. Not every asshole in the world has to have a higher motive or a hidden vulnerabiliy. It would be far more interesting to develop these characters naturally than bringing in guests who remind us all of how great they are.
Bailey, a character who has suffered a lot of damage in S3, started out as a focused and dedicated physician, who knew when to yell and when to care about her interns' emotional state. Nowadays, she's either reduced to the Den Mother role or forced to yell like some hysteric psycho to the interns. Not even CW can save this part. I miss the kickass Bailey of the first two seasons.
Part of why Addison is one of the most popular characters of this show is the fact that her course throughout the show has remained simple. Nothing she did contradicted her previous actions, and they have managed to write her as a steadily evolving character. She is still a bit of an ice queen, but the emotions and situations they describe for her are realistic and help counter-balance the negatives. Even she has not left the season unscathed. Two personality tics we have seen in the past have come too play in far-fetched jokes, resulting in mayhem: a) Goofball!Addison, which took the adorable social awkwardness of the character and transformed her into a psychotic adolescent and b) ImpulsiveSex!Addison, whom we met and hopefully will never meet again in "Desire".
And, of course, we have IzzMe, who was originally a very compelling character, who was willing to break the occasional rule if it meant helping people. Had they developed that part correctly, Izzie could have evolved into a much more interesting character, but they had to milk the cow all the way, resulting in the Denny fiasco.
Last but definetely not least, the writers took their own obsessions too far. They may be writing this show, but people are still watching and they need to respect the audience that brought them here. The writers' weird fascinations with drunken sex, Denny (just fucking kill him already, Shonda), random hookups, and deteriorating families have got to end now. Writing a show doesn't in a ny way allow you to take your personal frustraions out on viewers for two seasons. Please, please get over them or at least find creative and subtle ways to give them to us.
Meredith going from a neurotic lead to a suicidal drunk, whose every move is plagued by disaster and fear. Meredith and Derek's relationship has become an all-or-nothing, destructive, consuming force when it had so much potential as a game. There was a spark between them and now all that's left is ashes from every week's apocalyptic bonfire.
Cristina started out as a more private character than the others, with a lot of commitment phobias. By now, every storyline she gets is about how she can't commit. Every time another character opens their mouth in her presence, I expect her to start screaming about how she can't. I never thought I'd be saying this, but she feels far whinier than Izzie and Meredith combined to me. I love the character, but they need to make her more human and dimensional instead of relying on an old cliche.
Alex and Mark's manwhores-with-a-heart-of gold routine has just gone too far, too long. Not every asshole in the world has to have a higher motive or a hidden vulnerabiliy. It would be far more interesting to develop these characters naturally than bringing in guests who remind us all of how great they are.
Bailey, a character who has suffered a lot of damage in S3, started out as a focused and dedicated physician, who knew when to yell and when to care about her interns' emotional state. Nowadays, she's either reduced to the Den Mother role or forced to yell like some hysteric psycho to the interns. Not even CW can save this part. I miss the kickass Bailey of the first two seasons.
Part of why Addison is one of the most popular characters of this show is the fact that her course throughout the show has remained simple. Nothing she did contradicted her previous actions, and they have managed to write her as a steadily evolving character. She is still a bit of an ice queen, but the emotions and situations they describe for her are realistic and help counter-balance the negatives. Even she has not left the season unscathed. Two personality tics we have seen in the past have come too play in far-fetched jokes, resulting in mayhem: a) Goofball!Addison, which took the adorable social awkwardness of the character and transformed her into a psychotic adolescent and b) ImpulsiveSex!Addison, whom we met and hopefully will never meet again in "Desire".
And, of course, we have IzzMe, who was originally a very compelling character, who was willing to break the occasional rule if it meant helping people. Had they developed that part correctly, Izzie could have evolved into a much more interesting character, but they had to milk the cow all the way, resulting in the Denny fiasco.
Last but definetely not least, the writers took their own obsessions too far. They may be writing this show, but people are still watching and they need to respect the audience that brought them here. The writers' weird fascinations with drunken sex, Denny (just fucking kill him already, Shonda), random hookups, and deteriorating families have got to end now. Writing a show doesn't in a ny way allow you to take your personal frustraions out on viewers for two seasons. Please, please get over them or at least find creative and subtle ways to give them to us.
#30
Posted May 22, 2007 @ 9:41 AM
It's been quite a while since I watched episodes from season 1 and season 2. I started doing so last year, but got annoyed with the direction of the show in season 3 and decided I didn't want to be reminded of how good the show had been since it was now in a downward spiral. But I digress.
Season 1 was a lot of fun. Back then, I loved George, liked Izzie (hard to imagine), adored Cristina and Burke – separately and together – and hated all things having to do with Meredith and Derek. I mean, from the first episode, I found Meredith positively insufferable – a walking, talking monologue from a chick flick.
I loved how the syphilis outbreak openly poked fun at the sexual hijinks at SGH; enjoyed the camaraderie and competition between the interns; loved Addison showing up all bitchy at the end.
Season 2 was also fun, but starting with the Super Bowl Bomb Episodes (and they were great), I felt the show starting to take itself a little too seriously. Still, I enjoyed most of the characters enough that this didn’t bother me. Back then, medical stories were still interesting, so much so that I didn’t mind the patients’ dilemmas paralleling those of the doctors.
Things started to go downhill for me with the season 2 finale, which I found over the top and self-indulgent. It made me hate Izzie forever. I couldn’t look at Derek and Meredith without my blood boiling at least until the middle of season 3. Prom in a hospital? I thought I’d stumbled into an after school special.
Sadly, things didn’t improve in season 3. Oh, there were episodes I enjoyed – Where the Boys Are, From a Whisper to a Scream, Walk on Water (surprisingly). And I continued to enjoy Cristina, Alex, Addison, Bailey and Burke (most days). But the tone of the show had become ponderous, as the writers seemed to think it was their job to impart clichéd life lessons and pearls of wisdom (“there are no fairytales,” etc.)
By the time the finale rolled around, I was no longer invested in what happened to any of the characters. In a weird way, I think I was able to take the finale for what it was because I was so detached.
How’s this for contrast? As much as I hated the season 2 finale, I cared about what would happen to the characters – except Meredith and Derek. I wanted to see how Addison would handle Derek’s cheating. I wanted to know how Cristina and Burke would handle his injury. I wanted to know more about Alex. I wanted to see how Bailey would handle losing an intern. I wanted to see Izzie pay for her crimes and find another profession (ok, maybe this last one was just wishful thinking)
So, in spite of my better judgment, I tuned in for season 3.
Now, I don’t care. I have residual affection for Bailey and Cristina; and I adore Meredith and Cristina’s friendship, but these are not enough to make me tune in come September.
Season 1 was a lot of fun. Back then, I loved George, liked Izzie (hard to imagine), adored Cristina and Burke – separately and together – and hated all things having to do with Meredith and Derek. I mean, from the first episode, I found Meredith positively insufferable – a walking, talking monologue from a chick flick.
I loved how the syphilis outbreak openly poked fun at the sexual hijinks at SGH; enjoyed the camaraderie and competition between the interns; loved Addison showing up all bitchy at the end.
Season 2 was also fun, but starting with the Super Bowl Bomb Episodes (and they were great), I felt the show starting to take itself a little too seriously. Still, I enjoyed most of the characters enough that this didn’t bother me. Back then, medical stories were still interesting, so much so that I didn’t mind the patients’ dilemmas paralleling those of the doctors.
Things started to go downhill for me with the season 2 finale, which I found over the top and self-indulgent. It made me hate Izzie forever. I couldn’t look at Derek and Meredith without my blood boiling at least until the middle of season 3. Prom in a hospital? I thought I’d stumbled into an after school special.
Sadly, things didn’t improve in season 3. Oh, there were episodes I enjoyed – Where the Boys Are, From a Whisper to a Scream, Walk on Water (surprisingly). And I continued to enjoy Cristina, Alex, Addison, Bailey and Burke (most days). But the tone of the show had become ponderous, as the writers seemed to think it was their job to impart clichéd life lessons and pearls of wisdom (“there are no fairytales,” etc.)
By the time the finale rolled around, I was no longer invested in what happened to any of the characters. In a weird way, I think I was able to take the finale for what it was because I was so detached.
How’s this for contrast? As much as I hated the season 2 finale, I cared about what would happen to the characters – except Meredith and Derek. I wanted to see how Addison would handle Derek’s cheating. I wanted to know how Cristina and Burke would handle his injury. I wanted to know more about Alex. I wanted to see how Bailey would handle losing an intern. I wanted to see Izzie pay for her crimes and find another profession (ok, maybe this last one was just wishful thinking)
So, in spite of my better judgment, I tuned in for season 3.
Now, I don’t care. I have residual affection for Bailey and Cristina; and I adore Meredith and Cristina’s friendship, but these are not enough to make me tune in come September.
Edited by mezz98, May 22, 2007 @ 12:40 PM.
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