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Scotty Wandell: Because He Changed the Light Bulbs


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#1

Schroeder

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 4:40 PM

I was recently reminded that Kitty told Kevin that what he wanted was a blender, not a boyfriend.

The final nail in the coffin for me with this character was when he sided with the sisters that Kevin should donate his sperm to Tommy instead of thinking that perhaps this would be a good time for him not to open his mouth. This, of course, doesn't excuse Kevin from snapping at him at the table and telling him to shut up.

However, I found Sarah at fault in the scene for bringing Scotty's opinion into the matter. Although her recent decision to let Rebeca know they're related shows the same determination to do whatever she wants.

Anyway... point is, I'm firmly of the camp that Scotty should have deferred his opinion when asked at the table. In fact, I think he didn't think what Kevin wanted at all; in fact, I think that Scotty himself would have donated his own sperm to his sister, assuming he has one and was asked, and his lack of looking at it from Kevin's point of view, which was fairly obvious, instead of from his own finally killed this guy to me.

#2

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 5:34 PM

I think that Scotty himself would have donated his own sperm to his sister, assuming he has one and was asked, and his lack of looking at it from Kevin's point of view, which was fairly obvious, instead of from his own finally killed this guy to me.


I may be in the vast minority on this, but I wasn't wild about Scotty. I didn't hate him, but I wasn't wild. I think the scene Schroeder describes is apt. Two others are when they first met in Kevin's office, and during their date at the Indian restaurant. In all three cases, whatever Scotty had to say had to do with Scotty. In the office and restaurant, Scotty seems to be reliving his own comming-out drama through Kevin.

#3

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 5:52 PM

The final nail in the coffin for me with this character....


A number of us at the other forum were of “The Night of the Living Dead” school of thought on Scotty. We hoped that he would eventually break out of that coffin and do a zombie-walk back into the Walker home. The (possibly) clichéd rationale for his exit and his eventual return would be this: Kevin and Scotty are right for each other, but they met at the wrong time. They have to grow up separately before they can ever come together.

But there really is no reason for them to come back together based on story lines. Scotty, at least the Scotty who appears on paper, should be gone. The character has served his purpose as a learning experience for Kevin. The reason some of us are hoping for his return is based entirely on Luke Macfarland’s performance and his chemistry with Matthew Rhys.

Kudos to whoever decided to cast Macfarland as Scotty. I’d never seen the actor before, and it was a treat as an audience member to discover the actor and the character at the same time. In this case, it makes the character portrayal seem even more original and powerful.

#4

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 7:44 PM

I feel like I'm definitely in the minority here, but I'm totally indifferent towards Scotty. I thought he was a great foil for Kevin and helped get rid of a lot of exposition about Kevin that's necessary to tell at the beginning of a series and otherwise would have probably just been explicitly said. However I don't miss him (even though I found Chad quite annoying).

I mean I'd like to see them get back together down the road once they have both matured and have gotten over their issues but I won't lose any sleep if it doesn't happen. My only motivation for wanting to see Scotty again is that he had so much air time I feel as though their needs to be a payoff down the road for all of that attention he received.

#5

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 7:47 PM

Two others are when they first met in Kevin's office, and during their date at the Indian restaurant. In all three cases, whatever Scotty had to say had to do with Scotty. In the office and restaurant, Scotty seems to be reliving his own comming-out drama through Kevin.


I agree with you about disliking his first scene...but I think that dislike is pretty much universal. I've never heard anyone say that they liked him from the get go. He was just too much in that scene - everything from the lines to the hair to the mannerisms.

I'm not sure what you mean about "reliving his own coming-out drama through Kevin". During the date he even states there was no coming out drama for him - everyone just knew. I love the first date scene. The dialogue is so sweet, and despite the awkwardness of it all, so was the kiss.

#6

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 8:13 PM

Oh, the kiss was awesome. I loved it. It was just... gooey.

But perhaps the coming out drama that he had was the fact that he didn't get to come out: he just was gay and everyone knew.

I have always thought that one of the things about Kevin's gayness that made Scotty act the way he did, and tell Kevin that he needed to be more in touch with his gay side, was that Kevin doesn't act as gay as Scotty does, and that annoyed Scotty, to a point. Scotty was just being Scotty and everyone could tell he was gay growing up as he said, and Kevin's just being Kevin, and Scotty was not sure at first if Kevin was gay... and therefore could have internally harboring issues with that Kevin perhaps got to be in the closet, something that Scotty doesn't understand what it's like. Or what it's like not to be so obvious.

Just my mileage and all.

#7

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 9:02 PM

in fact, I think that Scotty himself would have donated his own sperm to his sister, assuming he has one and was asked,


Does Scotty's hypothetical sister want a child with two heads? Yikes.

Oh and Luke's name is MacFarlane not MacFarland. I know it sounds like nitpicking but Jack on 'Will & Grace's name was MacFarland so it always kind of sticks out to me.

#8

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Posted Mar 31, 2007 @ 9:16 PM

Or perhaps Scotty's sister is a lesbian and wants to use his sperm as hers and get her girlfriend or wife pregnant. Either way, you got my point despite the technicalities.

#9

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:20 AM

I'm not sure what you mean about "reliving his own coming-out drama through Kevin". During the date he even states there was no coming out drama for him - everyone just knew. I love the first date scene. The dialogue is so sweet, and despite the awkwardness of it all, so was the kiss.


I think Schroeder explained what I meant better than I did, but I'll give it a shot, too. By coming-out, I was using the term more broadly than just the act of telling everyone you're gay. I think for Scotty coming-out involves a global notion of self-acceptance too (as Schroeder points out, if Scotty was obviously gay as he says, he never really had to 'come out' in the strictly traditional sence).

So, if Kevin dresses more conservativly and is not so much in favor of being affectionate in public, then to Scotty that automatically means Kevin has internalized homophobia, and not that Kevin is just more reserved. What is normal behavior for Kevin comes accross to Scotty as 'trying to pass' as opposed to just Kevin's personality. Since if Scotty acted that way it would be trying to pass, Scotty thinks the same applies to Kevin.

I also hated the scene later while after they broke up, something along the lines of, "it took me twenty thousand years to let me love myself, and you've taken that away in two seconds." (I'm sure someone can provide the exact quotation) Not only does Kevin feel bad about breaking up and being an ass, but now he is also responsible for nullifying Scotty's long, hard, road to self-acceptance in the blink of an eye! Some self-acceptance.

#10

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:30 AM

That's one of the reasons why I don't like Scotty. He made it seem that it was all Kevin's fault, and I admit that Kevin had many missteps but it's not really someone's fault when you're the one feeling insecure or less evolved. Ass.

#11

Kong Chang

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:47 AM

I also hated the scene later while after they broke up, something along the lines of, "it took me twenty thousand years to let me love myself, and you've taken that away in two seconds." (I'm sure someone can provide the exact quotation) Not only does Kevin feel bad about breaking up and being an ass, but now he is also responsible for nullifying Scotty's long, hard, road to self-acceptance in the blink of an eye! Some self-acceptance.


See this is where you heard the quote incorrectly. Here is the correct quote...and it's not about "being gay" or "self acceptance" as you aptly put it, it's about integrity...

SCOTTY: It took me a long time for me to figure out how much I’m worth. And how it has nothing to do with money or anything people can point to. It’s taken you, let’s see, two months to make me feel worthless.

What Scotty is saying here is that, Kevin places Scotty lower than him on all scales, that they're not "equal" and that it takes money to be of "equal" worth and on par to his (Kevin) level. This goes along with all the things Kevin does to make Scotty feel inferior to him.

This is what Scotty was referring to in episode 14 that Kevin is now feeling what Scotty felt, that Kevin has been placed on the "inferiority" compared to Chad's level. It's the feeling of being put down and put into place with no respect of the other person's feelings of integrity and worth. It may have come off as sounding high and mighty, but sometimes it takes that much to tell someone what they don't want to see or notice that's happening to him.

Plus, in real life, you can have a lot of self-worth and integrity and all it takes is someone to abuse you (physically, emotionally, spiritually) and to strip it away and make you feel worthless.

#12

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:54 AM

I said ad nauseum on the old board that I could never get over the character's debut scene. Luke MacFarlane is a very good actor and the writers constructed some really good scenes down the road (especially the "I miss you sometimes" bit), but I could never warm up to the character.

#13

Kong Chang

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:59 AM

I could never get over the character's debut scene.


And that you can thank to Marti Noxon for writing the original character of Scotty Wandell. That was her vision (not Baitz's).

#14

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 1:00 AM

SCOTTY: It took me a long time for me to figure out how much I’m worth. And how it has nothing to do with money or anything people can point to. It’s taken you, let’s see, two months to make me feel worthless.

That's what I find weird. When he came in all gangbusters and a bit condescending towards Kevin about passing as straight and not celebrating his gayness or whatever, I thoght he had the highest amount of self-esteem in the world. And it took 2 months for it to be all gone? So does that mean he wasn't worth much to begin with? I understand about self-worth and yes, it took me a long while to accept who I am but honestly, to paraphrase The Princess Diaries, the only person who can debase yourself is you. Kevin made mistakes and in his middle class buorgeouis mindset, he might have taken missteps when it came to Scotty but whatever Kevin did to him is not commensurate to the grief Scotty put on him for the break-up.

#15

Kong Chang

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 1:46 AM

Yes, you can be your worst enemy in terms of debasing your self-esteem and worth, but that usually occurs AFTER another event and then it becomes a domino effect and then cyclic, which then you yourself become your worst enemy in that situation. It still needs a trigger to make it occur in that regard.

You can have build a lot of worth and integrity over time, but all it takes is someone you care for, like, close friend, whoever you admire, to tear you up in some form or way and basically strip you of everything...even self. Having gone through something similar, I know the feeling first hand.

I think it all comes down to is "disrespect". Kevin did disrespect Scotty in different ways, and although he didn't mean to, because one never normally intentionally tries to put someone you love down, he demeaned Scotty unintentionally without thinking it through methodically. It basically comes down to is how much of a whipping-boy you're willing to take, and I think Scotty just had enough of being that whipping-boy. Like what Kitty said, Kevin didn't want a boyfriend, he wanted a blender, something to buy and use and be done with and put it away.

But Kevin is currently, under Chad, a whipping boy and is blind to that fact. Even with Scotty's advice, Kevin still doesn't see it as such and it's a sad fate for Kevin.

So basically, you can sum it up in this fashion for season 1: Kevin treated Scotty like dirt. Chad treated Kevin like dirt. Hopefully Kevin will learn dirt sucks either being given or taken (such is the underlying moral lesson of the season).

Edited by Kong Chang, Apr 1, 2007 @ 1:47 AM.


#16

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 1:52 AM

SCOTTY: It took me a long time for me to figure out how much I’m worth. And how it has nothing to do with money or anything people can point to. It’s taken you, let’s see, two months to make me feel worthless.


I can remember once where it clearly was about the money. I'm thinking about Kevin offering to reimberse his lost salery so he could go to the charity dinner. (I'm sure this was hashed and rehashed on the old board, but I didn't go there much -- it was too unwieldy) Yeah, Kevin was being an ass, and was making a privilaged, clueless, nouveau riche mistake. But there were all sorts of alternatives to melodramatically storming off from the table and not returning phone calls.

Maybe I see this differently, because I hardly have any money but a lot of my friends do. So many times I've been invited to do things and have to decline because I don't have the money, and then they'll offer to pay. Now, it seems to me, Scotty would interpret that as "I have lots more money than you, and I am going to lord it over you and make you feel like a feudal serf," whereas what I suspect someone like Kevin's intention is "you don't have the money? Well, that's inconvienient. But hey, I've got enough for both of us, so I want you to come anyway because I want to spend time with you." So who's really fixated on money?

#17

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 2:12 AM

I don't mean to put down Scotty but you have to admit he had a share in how that relationship went down. Disrespect...He did a whole lot of disrespecting when he and Kevin were together. It's true that what's happening with Chad is a reversal of sorts for Kevin' it's very karmic but no way was Scotty an innocent bystander in the relationship. He wasn't a saint or a battered boyfriend.

Anyway, the one thing I really really liked about Scotty was that he was so unexpected. He wasn't what I thought to be a match for Kevin but he made me believe it, even for just a little while.

Edited by hypertwink, Apr 1, 2007 @ 2:13 AM.


#18

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 9:07 AM

Personally, I just loved the chemistry between Kevin & Scotty. Chad has been a bore.

Scotty is fixated on money but why wouldn't he be? He's like the average American and lives paycheck to paycheck. Kevin, like way too many tv characters these days, cannot relate to what Scotty goes through. I know all the TV execs who put together these shows make 6-figures and up, but it would be nice to see more characters like Scotty represented on TV.

#19

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:01 AM

So basically, you can sum it up in this fashion for season 1: Kevin treated Scotty like dirt. Chad treated Kevin like dirt. Hopefully Kevin will learn dirt sucks either being given or taken (such is the underlying moral lesson of the season).


This is an awfully simplistic encapsulation of these two relationships, and ultimately an inaccurate one IMHO. Scotty was not a saint nor is Chad the devil incarnate. And Kevin has had both his share of strong and weak moments in both relationships.

I don't disagree that Kevin is learning some necessary lessons through these relationships, and how he's realized through his current romance with Chad how much he actually craves intimacy...but I think the writing is far more nuanced (and quite frankly, interesting) than that description.

Edited by Lewisfan48, Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:03 AM.


#20

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 12:10 PM

Scotty is fixated on money but why wouldn't he be? He's like the average American and lives paycheck to paycheck. Kevin, like way too many tv characters these days, cannot relate to what Scotty goes through. I know all the TV execs who put together these shows make 6-figures and up, but it would be nice to see more characters like Scotty represented on TV.


rue bee, I certainly didn't intend to criticize Scotty for caring about money. In fact, upon re-reading my posts I was probably a little more hard on him than I had intended. My problem was with how he made such a federal case out of the "it's not about the money" business, which came off as hollow and completely sanctimonious.

Also, I hear you with regards to the huge amount of petite bourgeois that inhabit our televisions these days.

1: Kevin treated Scotty like dirt. Chad treated Kevin like dirt.


I think the differences in the two relationships far outweigh the similarites. Kevin and Scotty had all manner of problems. Kevin and Chad have one problem, and only one: Chad's in the closet. What I mean by that is, no matter what other problems may or may not develop, no matter how many good times or bad times they have, the overwhelming fact of their relationship is that Chad is closeted. Nothing more can happen between them now, nothing new can develop, neither good nor bad. They can break up, or Chad can come out. There are no other options. Kevin and Scotty, even in the little time we saw them together, had a much richer relationship than that.

#21

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Posted Apr 1, 2007 @ 4:14 PM

I could never get over the character's debut scene.

Before Scotty even appeared on the show, I had read somewhere that Kevin was getting a storyline that would force him to wrestle with embarrassment when he dates an effeminate guy. If that was, in fact, the original idea, then MacFarlane’s performance in his opening scenes makes sense. (It looks like Scotty was originally being treated like some booby prize: Kevin’s sister arranges the first date with Scotty to “get even” with Kevin; Kevin expresses some uneasiness when Scotty shows up at the family dinner, etc.)

So maybe the writers were originally intending to go down that road and pursue the conflict between the straight-acting gay vs. the queeny gay guy, but the show never explicitly pursued that angle. Kevin never expressed embarrassment that Scotty was effeminate. Instead Kevin seemed mildly embarrassed that Scotty was more open and publicly affectionate than he was.

Anyway, that’s my theory on why Scotty was originally so flaming: it was part of a straight-acting vs. fem storyline that they decided not to pursue. Later, Scotty’s flames were toned down as the show seemed to try to make Scotty more palatable for audience consumption, or at least, less like a caricature.

#22

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Posted Apr 2, 2007 @ 12:59 PM

I agree that their chemistry was great, and could get behind him coming back after they both have grown up some.

Scotty was all about cliche gay platitudes about accepting yourself and never compromising to please others. He was completely self-absorbed, and pointing the finger at Kevin only made him seem more egotistical.

Relationships are compromise, and Scotty was more about telling Kevin how he "should" be.

Scotty was annoying, because he was written as a cliche. But given his chemistry with Kevin, I could see him coming back as a wiser, less judgemental Scotty.

#23

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Posted Apr 2, 2007 @ 2:12 PM

I was never a Scotty fan for many of the reasons that some posters have already eloquently stated. Chief among those reasons is the fact that I thought Scotty always considered himself superior to Kevin. He always talked to Kevin in the most condescending way, and the only reason I cared at all about that relationship was because I could see that Kevin cared so much. I think Schroeder and Zzingerific really hit the nail on the head with these two descriptions:

I have always thought that one of the things about Kevin's gayness that made Scotty act the way he did, and tell Kevin that he needed to be more in touch with his gay side, was that Kevin doesn't act as gay as Scotty does, and that annoyed Scotty, to a point.


So, if Kevin dresses more conservativly and is not so much in favor of being affectionate in public, then to Scotty that automatically means Kevin has internalized homophobia, and not that Kevin is just more reserved. What is normal behavior for Kevin comes accross to Scotty as 'trying to pass' as opposed to just Kevin's personality. Since if Scotty acted that way it would be trying to pass, Scotty thinks the same applies to Kevin.


I always thought Scotty felt Kevin wasn't "gay" enough for him and wanted him to be or act "gayer," which is entirely unaccepting of Kevin and who he is. He never struck me as being as evolved as he proclaimed.

#24

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Posted Apr 5, 2007 @ 6:52 PM

Anyway, that’s my theory on why Scotty was originally so flaming: it was part of a straight-acting vs. fem storyline that they decided not to pursue. Later, Scotty’s flames were toned down as the show seemed to try to make Scotty more palatable for audience consumption, or at least, less like a caricature.


And it wasn't his mannerisms that bothered me; it was how accusatory he was, by saying "You're gay!" to Kevin within five seconds of meeting him and then accusing him of trying to "pass". It just seemed very abrasive to me.

#25

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 1:37 PM

I agree. Original-recipe Scottie was very much in the mold that if you are not so obviously, stereotypically gay, you are trying to pass as straight. That mentality does not allow for the fact that people are individuals, and that there is no "acceptable" way to act. You simply have to be who you are, and let the chips fall where they may.

Now, had Kevin been boasting about the "babe he nailed last night" or had a framed picture of a woman he was claiming was his "girlfriend who lives in Canada", then OR Scottie would have had grounds to accuse him of trying to pass. Kevin was simply being Kevin, and his demeanor is true to himself. Just because a gay man is not obvious does not mean he is trying to "pass".

I was glad that they took that part of Scottie's personality away, but they should have stayed true to the character that they established in the first episode. Of course, a lot of what happened in the first few eps has been conveniently let go, as the show was finding it's way in the beginning.

#26

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 2:37 PM

I wonder if the original scene with Kevin and Scotty first meeting was left over from when Kevin was 'Bryan', a divorcee with a son. Then mayhbe there actually was a framed pic of the ex on his desk. That's all I got to justify that silly scene.

Edited by quentin312002, Apr 12, 2007 @ 2:38 PM.


#27

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 2:44 PM

No, the character of Bryan was scrapped after the original pilot.

Kevin's character was established by the time of the re-shot pilot. This scene was conceived of after Kevin was created as a character.

#28

James4000

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 9:13 PM

I really liked the Scotty character, but he was kind of a missed opportunity. I wanted more from his relationship with Kevin than the writers were willing to give us. They needed to rush straight away to the conflicts and major themes, like internalized homophobia, fear of commitment, and other relationship drama.

I wanted more of the (few and far between) romantic comedy scenes that Rhys and Macfarlane played so well together. Like that scene in Kevin’s office after Kevin broke off a date with Scotty in order to take his mother to the movies:

Scotty: When can we go out again?

Kevin: I don’t ask guys out again who are currently involved….

Scotty: P.S. You’re the one who canceled on me to hang out with your mom. So I’m the one who should be offended….and a little weirded out.

Kevin: Okay, fine. How’s tomorrow night?

Scotty: My boyfriend and I might have plans, but I’ll check.

Kevin: He can come too. He was kind of hot.

It was a simple scene, nicely played, and lots of fun. I wanted more of the playful antagonism of that scene, and for the most part, we never got much more of that. (On broadcast television, gays never really get much more than that). Sometimes you have to be grateful for just the suggestion of what that relationship could be. The networks toss you a few crumbs, and you try to stretch it enough to make an entire meal out of it.

#29

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 9:59 PM

Kevin Walker and Scotty Wandell got to kiss, which is more than most homosexual characters --- particularly male homosexual characters --- get to do on network television shows. Plus, Baitz mentioned that they're getting negative letters about Kevin's love life, and the producers/ABC/the advertisers aren't backing down, so kudos to them.

#30

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Posted Apr 12, 2007 @ 10:32 PM

Plus, Baitz mentioned that they're getting negative letters about Kevin's love life, and the producers/ABC/the advertisers aren't backing down, so kudos to them.


Robbie mentioned this recently or is that dated information?