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Saving Grace: Hey, It Worked for Kyra


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#541

pasdetrois

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 2:54 PM

I waited all year for this and then fell asleep a half-hour in. I hope, hope they will show the epis on the Web. I think they did first season. Or maybe re-broadcast before next Monday's epi? Anyone know?

I just KNEW the police dog would get hurt. Knew it.

Didn't see the priest-in-a-rug coming but spotted the dream sequence once she arrived at the station.

Grace is kinda thin, isn't she? Holly, eat some biscuits and gravy, girl.

The Everlast song really gets to me, I love it.

Laura S.G. really disappears into her role -- she's fabulous.

#542

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 6:17 PM

Father Murphy

I'm sorry, but when I see that out of context I think of Merlin Olsen. Them's dead! (Ahem. Never mind.)

I wasn't planning to watch the season opener and I was an indifferent viewer last season, but I got sucked in last night after the Closer. At 1am. Wow. I am really and truly hooked.

I'm such a passionnate, yet cynical, animal lover, that when I saw the dog on the ground I immediately assumed he was dead. Very glad his recovery became a subplot.

#543

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 7:03 PM

Or maybe re-broadcast before next Monday's epi? Anyone know?

TNT's schedule says the season opener is repeating tonight at 11pm eastern.

#544

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 7:36 PM

I didn't pick out the dream sequence until Rhetta said Grace couldn't borrow her van because she had to take the kids to school.

I really liked the way they wrote the Father Murphy story. I wasn't expecting Grace to kidnap him and then turn him in. Those scenes were extremely well done by both Holly Hunter and Rene Auberjnois (I know I massacred that spelling).

Earl not showing up to see Grace until the end of the episode also worked really well for me.

The Riley subplot was a nice bit of distraction as well considering the subject matter. I liked the little snippets we got on the dog's condition as the episode went on.

And call me dense but I never guessed the cop who killed Murphy was molesting his fiance's daughter. It was the only part of the episode I thought was too predictable. The look on Grace's face when she realized what he'd become was a wonderful bit of non-verbal acting on Hunter's part.

All in all a great premiere IMO.

#545

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 8:13 PM

The Riley subplot was a nice bit of distraction as well considering the subject matter. I liked the little snippets we got on the dog's condition as the episode went on.


I got a sick feeling in my stomach when the perp and Riley both dived over the bridge. And it's so cliched, but I loved it when Grace went directly to the dog after they climbed down the embankment, and said "I don't give a shit about him [the perp], an officer is down". The updates throughout the show were a terrific conceit. No way could I go to bed until I knew Riley was okay.

#546

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 8:18 AM

I loved how when Grace heard the news about Riley's condition and started honking you could see other people in their cars reacting the same way - guess they were all listening to the same station! And that moment, when Grace walked right past the perp and checked on Riley just cemented my Grace love.

Although I think HH is way too skinny and I find the naked scenes distracting because I am so concerned about her weight, overall I *love* this show. I love the characters and their relationships and how broken Grace is and how she is healing and how slowly that healing is going.

I was sorry to see that woman blaming Grace for her sister's death, especially since Grace already seems to blame herself. Maybe that will help Grace deal with that issue - eventually. I can see it causing problems initially. Doesn't the woman seem a little over-invested in blaming Grace, though? Years later (after losing weight?) you look someone back up and basically file a fraudulent police report just to hurt her?

And I think Earl is pretty great.

The bit with her mom was so sad. Could she really be that clueless?

That says a lot about Grace's character that we could completely believe that she would shoot Father Murphy.

Who wouldn't want to shoot the priest that raped you as a child? Or any serial child rapist? Maybe it says something about my character that my only concern with Grace's shooting him was her future well-being.

Edited by avid_reader, Jul 16, 2008 @ 8:26 AM.


#547

soapfaninnc

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 10:39 AM

I have a confession to make.... I resisted watching this show last year because I felt the network was trying to shove it down my throat. This week I wanted to see the preview for next week's Closer and I got hooked.

At first I was annoyed that Grace had to have had sexual abuse past (that's why she has so much sex with different people) cliche but this story was so well done. From the moment she kicked the priest and he rolled out of the rug I knew I had found a character I could invest in. HH shows Grace's underlying emotions perfectly - that scene with her mother was just gold. The moment she realized she could never tell her mother about the abuse because it was clear her mother was so far in denial it would just wind up hurting Grace more. I wanted to slap her mother so bad.

Grace is a mess but a very interesting layered mess. I thought the scene with her late sister's best friend was showing the point Earl was trying to make with Grace - extracting revenge on someone is never going to fill up that hole inside of you. It just hurts you and eats at you. (been there done that) The sister's friend is still bitter and vengeful and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of her.

I'm glad Grace got to confront him and I didn't have a problem with the torture she put him through either. But I am glad she didn't kill him - for Grace's sake. I was glad someone else killed him.

I'm playing catch up and I'm going to have to get Season I on DVD. The show seems well cast and I love the writing. It seems good writing is a lost art these days.

#548

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 11:38 AM

The bit with her mom was so sad. Could she really be that clueless?


They so often are. I've seen it in my work. I thought that was an amazing bit of writing.
I thought the episode was absolutely the best thing I've seen on TV in a long time. We're still praying for Riley at our house.

#549

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 1:54 PM

The sister's friend annoyed me. It is so not her place to get revenge because she feels Grace is at fault. You're right, soapfaninnc, this woman will be bitter the rest of her life. She should still be arrested for filing a false report.

Ah, clueless Catholic parents. Yes, it is realistic, when you consider in her mother's generation, the Church and priests were not questioned - ever. About anything. If a child got disciplined in Catholic school back then (usually physically hit with a hand or a ruler), never once did a parent question whether they deserved it or not, it was just assumed that they did. I can easily see why no child told their parents- why would they think their parent would believe them over a priest? I've read about people who tried to tell their parents, and had their parents call them liars and sinners.

Ham annoys me more every week - I don't even have the words this season for how much he pisses me off. So I'll just say - STFU, Ham!

#550

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 5:08 PM

What a fantastic premiere, I just love this show. Okay, I cried when Riley went over the bridge and was down. I was so happy to see that he made it, and I loved the reports on his recovery throughout the episode. I'm a sap.

Holly is an incredible actress, her face can say it all without a word spoken. The horror on her face when she realized that the cop had become a predator was gut wrenching. I was not at all surprised that her mother chose to remain in denial, I would have expected nothing less.

I love Earl, as always. He's my kind of angel. I gather the next task that Grace has to face is her guilt over the death of her sister, thus the next set of clues to come from Earl. Hopefully we'll learn why he's been in Baltimore and what was in the box he brought her. I loved the end with Grace weeping in his arms.

#551

dhall60

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 5:51 PM

My DVR shut off just as Earl folded his arms around her at the end. What did I miss other than probably wonderful music and a preview? Thanks

#552

MaryBellJo

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 5:58 PM

My DVR shut off just as Earl folded his arms around her at the end. What did I miss other than probably wonderful music and a preview? Thanks


It was a Grace we never see -- sad, sobbing "I'm sorry". About what, was not really clear, which I think was the point.

#553

lilith1930

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Posted Jul 16, 2008 @ 6:08 PM

It wasn't even a real preview anyway, nothing that indicated what the next episode is about, just a bunch of random shots of Grace and the cast.

#554

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Posted Jul 17, 2008 @ 1:11 AM

It was a crappy first episode, but hopefully things will get better.

Really, the biggest problem was a total lack of cohesion to the episode. It was all over the damn place.

The "Part II" with Father Murphy in Grace's custody should have either been:
1.) Virtually the whole episode in Grace's house, with the episode ending with her taking him into the police station. The entire "B" plot with the other criminal, the police dog, and the bitter IA guy should have been shelved. Father Murphy getting murdered should have been NEXT episode, and again been a whole episode.
OR
2.) Everything with Murphy could have been in the past, with even us not knowing how it went down, and the episode starting with his dead body being found.

The way we DID get it was a joke, and horrid writing to boot.

#555

Fisher King

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Posted Jul 17, 2008 @ 9:23 AM

Congratulations to Holly Hunter for her Lead Actress Emmy nomination.

I thought the 2nd season premiere was exceptional.

#556

Pennsy

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Posted Jul 17, 2008 @ 12:22 PM

Holly Hunter, Emmy nominee? OMSTAIN!, this. (One More Sign the Apocalypse is Nigh). An absolute joke. She stole Mary McDonnell of Battlestar Galactica's rightful spot. Completely disgraceful that Hunter got the nom because of her name recognition alone.

#557

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Posted Jul 17, 2008 @ 2:02 PM

Ham annoys me more every week - I don't even have the words this season for how much he pisses me off. So I'll just say - STFU, Ham!

Amen. I really wish Grace and Butch would get back together instead. At least Butch is more or less a grown man. Ham is just annoying--like a grown dog who still behaves like a puppy and messes up the house while you're gone--and not in a cute way. I keep wanting someone to smack him with a newspaper and tell him to behave, it's not about him, for God's sake. I thought this was a good opening episode. I think that Holly Hunter really sold the audience not knowing what Grace would do next because she doesn't know. I also love Laura San Giacomo more and more in this show--she's Grace's Rock of Gibraltor. And now that Grace's brother Johnny knows the truth about why Grace is the way she is, he can help Rhetta and run interference with the rest of the family. Whatever you say about the plots-of-the-week on this show, the characterization of family and friends is really well done, IMO. I feel like I know these people because I have known people exactly like them. The MOTW is at the bottom of my list of the reasons I watch.

#558

ladyrott

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Posted Jul 18, 2008 @ 11:48 AM

Ham is just annoying--like a grown dog who still behaves like a puppy and messes up the house while you're gone--and not in a cute way. I keep wanting someone to smack him with a newspaper and tell him to behave, it's not about him, for God's sake.


Amen to that! Ham bugs me to no end. Last season, he enraged me with his crap about being all betrayed that Grace "cheated" on him when he is still married and the premier certainly didn't make me like him any more.

#559

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Posted Jul 18, 2008 @ 8:59 PM

They also got me on the other cop now being a child molester. I didn't see it coming, although I did guess he might off the priest. - ladyrott

That says a lot about Grace's character that we could completely believe that she would shoot Father Murphy. - slizabeth

Ditto - I knew he was the killer right off the bat probably because of the way he denied the abuse but I didn't expect the molesting, probably because I missed the reference that the fiancee had a daughter.

I was sorry to see that woman blaming Grace for her sister's death, especially since Grace already seems to blame herself. Maybe that will help Grace deal with that issue - eventually. I can see it causing problems initially. Doesn't the woman seem a little over-invested in blaming Grace, though? Years later (after losing weight?) you look someone back up and basically file a fraudulent police report just to hurt her? - avid_reader

I can't say I was sorry, I actually resent Grace getting drunk all the time and screwing up (yes, I know she's a fictional character) and since no one seemed to put two and two together (her not being sick but drunk) I was glad someone confronted her about it. You're right, the woman does seem a tad psycho.

I really wish Grace and Butch would get back together instead. At least Butch is more or less a grown man. Ham is just annoying--like a grown dog who still behaves like a puppy and messes up the house while you're gone--and not in a cute way. - Watcher19

I can't stand Ham either and was sorry to see that theyre still going with them being together. Id much rather see Butch naked too. I imagine that she sees Ham as much more harmless to her heart and way of living than Butch though and he probably couldn't (and shouldn't) deal with how screwed up she is right now.

Im starting to think Im too faint of heart to watch this show...

#560

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Posted Jul 18, 2008 @ 9:35 PM

The opening episode of S2 could have been better. I hated seeing Odo (DS9) as a child molester. I kept expecting Kira to rush in, slap Grace around ans rescue him.

I hope Grace proves she's ok and flashes the neighbor again. Better yet, I'd like to see Laura San Giacomo stop by for a shower and make the neighbors day. The show gets pretty heavy handed at times. A spark of humor with the neighbor really helps.

I love Grace and Rhetta. They are the best characters on the show. I've been amazed at how much younger and sexier Holly Hunter looks these days. I have Thirteen (2003) on dvd and Holly looked really old and middle aged. That was such a depressing movie. I'm glad she's got better material to work with.

Edited by aceplace57, Jul 18, 2008 @ 9:38 PM.


#561

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Posted Jul 19, 2008 @ 12:42 PM

I hated seeing Odo (DS9) as a child molester.

Heh. He also played Father Mulcahy in the movie version of MASH, so maybe it was just typecasting.

#562

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Posted Jul 19, 2008 @ 7:25 PM

Delurking to say that's how you do a season premiere! That was an excellent episode-- maybe even better than anything I saw last season from this show. It reestablished all the relationships ('I don't know if I should hug you or kick your ass.' 'Hug.') and also gave hints to what this season will be about (I agree with the posters upthread that it will be about her sister).

I absolutely loved that Grace went to the dog first because I was more concerned about him too. Little details like that about her personality are what makes Grace such a fascinating character and interesting to watch.

Holly Hunter, Emmy nominee? OMSTAIN!, this. (One More Sign the Apocalypse is Nigh). An absolute joke. She stole Mary McDonnell of Battlestar Galactica's rightful spot.

While I'm in 150% agreement with you that Mary McDonnell (and a number of the other cast members on BSG) have deserved an Emmy since the jump, I have to disagree with you on Hunter. I think she's fantastic in this. She's completely fearless where other actresses would pull back because of vanity or fear. Case in point, the 'torture' scene. When she tossed on her cowboy hat and started dancing around, I was caught between horror and laughter. Not many actresses could pull that scene off.

#563

lilith1930

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Posted Jul 19, 2008 @ 8:54 PM

I'm pleased Holly got nominated, too. Because she is 8 flavors of awesome.

#564

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Posted Jul 19, 2008 @ 9:36 PM

FWIW - the story line about the K9 was taken from something that actually happened in OKC a few years ago.

Here's a clip on the real dog, AJO.

#565

CakeIsGood

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Posted Jul 20, 2008 @ 5:15 PM

I liked the premiere quite a bit and thought it was better than The Closer which I usually prefer. Add me to the group who laughed and gasped when Grace rolled Fr. Murphy out of that rug. I think the directing/camera work in those scenes really underscored HH's acting abilities here, contributing to the crazy, out-of-control feeling. Laying out the tarp was a funny touch, too. I couldn't watch that dancing scene though, it made me cringe just fast-forwarding through it. HH is great as always, but Laura San Giacomo is the unexpected talent in this show, another great scene with Grace and Rhetta in the stairwell.

Now for the criticism: Ham can suck it as far as I am concerned. Hate. I thought the subplot with the sister's best friend making trouble for Grace was both heavy-handed and shoehorned in. There are many more interesting ways they could have emphasized Grace's guilt and/or culpability regarding her sister's death and her relationship with Clay, so this was a disappointment. Similarly, I thought the Fr. Murphy murder investigation plot was sacrificed in this ep- they didn't try very hard to make it seem like Mr. Williams or Ham or anyone else could have done it.

I did like the final scene with Earl, where Grace is crying and he looks so sympathetic and she gives that ambiguous "I'm sorry". Good stuff.

#566

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Posted Jul 20, 2008 @ 7:16 PM

Holly Hunter, Emmy nominee? OMSTAIN!, this. (One More Sign the Apocalypse is Nigh). An absolute joke. She stole Mary McDonnell of Battlestar Galactica's rightful spot. Completely disgraceful that Hunter got the nom because of her name recognition alone.

Being an Academy Award winner kind of helped her out here more than her name simply being "known" in some generic sense. I mean it may be unbelievable she got the Emmy nod for THIS role, but certainly its not because she can't act. Remember she's not only an Oscar winner, she's also a FOUR time nominee.

Also, she's been nominated for Emmys four other times before this, and won two of them (admittedly, all in the Miniseries/TV movie categories--this being her first series).

Edited by MoreRidonkulous, Jul 20, 2008 @ 7:21 PM.


#567

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Posted Jul 20, 2008 @ 9:34 PM

On rewatch something bothered me. Father Murphy was never handcuffed or tied up (except for when he was rolled in the rug apparently). I'm thinking of the scene where she had a steak on his lap and let her dog lunge at his genitals. Why did he just sit there? He didn't even try to defend himself?

#568

mrsflair

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Posted Jul 20, 2008 @ 11:11 PM

I really liked this episode.
Grace's attacks on FM were sort of like vindictive childhood fantasy retaliations and i think excellently written.
I think FM's reaction to her attacks and to the dog were the only thing that showed that MAYBE he was really repentant and deserving of gods forgivness. You can't explain a last chance angel otherwise, not to my satisfaction anyway because molestors are notorious for being able to act repentant and say the right things to make people believe them. Especially religious molesters who use the bible to yack themselves up to sound good.

I think Grace not even suspecting the other cop of being a molestor shows her internal goodness, it's there and the writers do really well in showing us a glimpse of her goodness on occasion. She was molested and even though she's totally f**ked up it would never occur to her to harm a child so I can see how it would blow her mind that a childhood pal who had been in her own situation, who became a cop just like her , could grow up to become the very thing they hate the most. It also paralells her own situation with her mom, it's just outside her mothers realm of reality to believe a priest she knew and worshipped with would harm one of her children.

The bitter friend of the dead sister thing is not a good fit to the show but maybe it's going to go somewhere. Kinda scary to think where it may be going. I hope not in the direction i'm thinking.


Rhetta's scene with Graces brother summed up the religious molestation issue brilliantly, " do you want to believe in a god who would allow children to be molested or believe in a god that would send an angel to help your sister" Or however she said it.
So many people have so much faith in their religion that they'll compromise their own conscience and sense of right and wrong to keep the facade of "MY RELIGION IS RIGHT IN ALL THINGS" .
Good show! cant wait till the new show Monday night.

And Holly , deserves an emmy for sure , facial expressions , body language is all brilliantly done!!!

Edited by mrsflair, Jul 20, 2008 @ 11:13 PM.


#569

aceplace57

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Posted Jul 21, 2008 @ 4:13 AM

On rewatch something bothered me. Father Murphy was never handcuffed or tied up (except for when he was rolled in the rug apparently). I'm thinking of the scene where she had a steak on his lap and let her dog lunge at his genitals. Why did he just sit there? He didn't even try to defend himself?


I got the impression he was trying to pay for his crimes. Earl asks him if he's ready to die and he says yes. I think his earlier talks with Earl made him realize the lasting harm he'd caused in these kids lives. That doesn't excuse his actions. But it seemed like living with what he'd done was tearing him apart. I'd say his death released him from a lot of personal torment. I'm just glad it wasn't Grace that did it

#570

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Posted Jul 21, 2008 @ 5:48 AM

Did FM die at the end? That's good.

I was too bored with the show to watch it for very long.