176 replies to this topic

[Kim]

Lizzie leads the crusade to face Randall in court. Egan invites Jeremy to his friend's bachelor party.

[jesus206]

OK, this show needs to cut out some stuff. This show has way too much "mood" filler. They could have very easily been one episode ahead by now.

[lulee]

So we've gotten even more evidence that Randall was the truly bad guy in the hold-up. He had a chance to get away and instead chose to go back and hold hostages. Pretty stupid.

And now the suspicion gets cast on Eva. Hmmm...

I got a phone call and missed why Mary threw Egan out. Someone fill me in?

[immaf]

Show of hands -- how many half expected (as I did, and perhaps still do) to learn that Lucas is the father of Lizzie's baby?

I've always had a soft spot for Egan, just because I like John Billingsley so much. I thought he played drunk just perfectly. Scott Wolf wasn't bad at it either.

And Tim Daly continues to be pretty.

[callie lee 29]

Call me a complete idiot, but I didn't understand how Lucas being the donor for Randall is bad for Lucas. Wouldn't it be worse if Randall did die, because then the jury wouldn't have anybody other than Lucas to punish; whereas if Randall lived, they could put more blame on him and be lighter on Lucas. And isn't it unethical/illegal for the DA to keep from the defense that Eva's ex and Randal were cell mates (or in prison together)? Don't they need to disclose that?

[Sarmoti]

I love Lucas so much. SO MUCH.

I didn't understand how Lucas being the donor for Randall is bad for Lucas.

I think it's because it'd be better for Lucas to distance himself from Randall as much as possible. If he helps save him, the prosecution could use that against him, saying that it "proves" that he and Randall are a team, that they are equally to blame for what happened. (In there.)

Edited by Sarmoti, Oct 25, 2006 @ 10:13 PM.

[HollyHock]

I didn't understand how Lucas being the donor for Randall is bad for Lucas.

Lucas donating part of his liver to Randall makes it look like Lucas is supporting Randall. Letting him die would kind of symbolize Lucas cutting all his ties with Randall (at least, that's how I saw it).

ETA: I thought it was interesting that Lucas knew Lizzie was pregnant even before Kathryn.

Edited by HollyHock, Oct 25, 2006 @ 10:16 PM.

[redhairedgirl]

Wow. That was pretty good. Lucas (holy crap I can't keep them straight. Petrelli brothers on Heroes? No problem. These two? Nothing.) the one in jail, really does a lot with just his eyes.

Jeremy, you're an idiot. If you two would, I don't know, TALK TO EACHOTHER (preferably onscreen) and sort out whatever happened in there (in good solid detail, so we all understand) you could be a family. She wants you to fix it. She really does. Don't make me beat you over the head with a rolled newspaper. I totally will.

[natali23]

Call me a complete idiot, but I didn't understand how Lucas being the donor for Randall is bad for Lucas.

I think it was because the defense was trying to distance Lucas from Randall, making it seem like he was coerced or forced into the robbery and Randall was the one totally at fault. That he's willing to go under the knife and risk his life for Randall, then, probably isn't going to make that argument very strong. That was how I read it.

I thought tonight's episode was great! Loved the bookending of the church services. And I'm always a sucker for montage.

[ali59]

Now that was a good episode. Lots of lucious Lucas!

I was taken aback to find out that Lizzie had told Lucas she was pregnant before she even told Jeremy. They must have spent some quality time together "in there".

I was also shocked by how vicious Randall was when he was beating up on Lucas. That guy is definately unstable.

It was surprising to see Kathryn getting closer to her boyfriend. I sort of expected them to have drifted pretty far apart by now.

I think Egan is heading for another meltdown. He was just pathetic on the sidewalk in front of Nick's place. He seemed to be spiralling down the whole episode.

Why is Lizzie jogging so much and so hard if she just had a miscarriage scare? Judging from last week's episode, I thought she wanted the baby, but she wasn't acting like it tonight.

When Lucas was on the phone to Lizzie, he said he didn't know that Felicia couldn't remember what happened. He did know that though, cause Felicia came to see him and told him she couldn't remember. Color me confused.

Well, I'm really enjoying this show, which means like a lot of you have said, that it's probably doomed. But I'll keep on watching.

[Chipper730]

This show continues to amaze, even as it slows down a little. Of course, it's going to get canceled because it is simply too good for television. Or at least the casual viewer.

Lucas is the dark horse in all of this. I'm guessing he is one of the main connecting links between all of the hostages, in terms of storyline. It seems as if he was involved in several things to protect them, so I wonder how his story will play out. I'm sure the government will be smarmy as ever, but this will get interesting. Particularly with him donating the liver to Randall -- he needs him alive, after all, no matter the consequences.

[callie lee 29]

When Lucas was on the phone to Lizzie, he said he didn't know that Felicia couldn't remember what happened. He did know that though, cause Felicia came to see him and told him she couldn't remember. Color me confused.

I don't think anyone else knows (or is supposed to know, although her dad might) that Felicia has visited Lucas, so maybe he played off like he was just hearing about it.

Thanks to everyone for your responses regarding Randall and Lucas. I had thought about that, but I thought that a good defense atty. could play that off as how Lucas is easily swayed by Randall through brotherly love and that's why he got roped into the robbery, laying the blame more on Randall than Lucas. Letting him die by not being a donor could be interpreted as really cold by some. And then why would anybody believe what you say. Does that make any sense?

It'll be interesting to see the development of the Randall/ex/Eva/Frannie connection develop. I wonder if the spoiler about one of the nine dying in a future episode will be related to this.

[lulee]

ETA: I thought it was interesting that Lucas knew Lizzie was pregnant even before Kathryn.

How did I forget about that -- that was a very odd moment. How'd they get to be such bosom friends? Are Lucas and Lizzie going to reminisce about braiding each others' hair and getting into pillow fights???

[lynnbrown]

Boy, was this boring. It's like it gets worse every week. Sheesh.

I don't like what they're doing with the Franny character. It's like they want her to be trashy in this way that's slightly offputting. Why is she still flirting with Jeremy when that whole "I needed you" thing was supposed to be a one-time, comfort-cuz-my-sister-died thing? Don't try to make an ongoing relationship of it. I thought you guys had closure? Now you're a cocktail waitress getting schmoopy with a former fling.

Also, what did she do to piss off Nick? Suddenly he's pawning her off on Kathryn?

I really love Chi McBride on this show. I'm very impressed with his performance. It's so restrained.

Do I really need so many scenes of Kathryn in various states of undress with her coworker guy? Ugh.

Weren't the Wonder Twins girls?

[Sarmoti]

Are Lucas and Lizzie going to reminisce about braiding each others' hair and getting into pillow fights???

Haha, and Lucas will be all "So, girlfriend, what's going on with Jeremy?! OMG, he's into Franny? Get out!"

[LawyerJ]

First,

Anyone have an ID on the gospel choir? Loved the hymn (I'm heathen, so I'd never heard it before).

Second,

On Randall/Lucas, I have to confess, I think it helps Lucas to donate. Juries like to have a live criminal to blame. If Randall dies, Lucas can try the blame game, but it won't do him any good -- he'd be the only one for the jury to punish. If Randall lives, Lucas can point the finger (possibly supported by some of the 9, over whom he's clearly cast some sort of Stockhom-y spell?), and the jury would stil have a live crook to punish, so it might work.

I suppose reasonable attorneys can differ on the strategy question here, but that's how I'd see it.

[LateToTheFiesta]

Weren't the Wonder Twins girls?

I think one was a boy, one was a girl, IIRC.

[shockey80te]

So we've gotten even more evidence that Randall was the truly bad guy in the hold-up. He had a chance to get away and instead chose to go back and hold hostages. Pretty stupid.

I was under the impression that Randall was actually doing something for his brother there. Staying in the bank with the hostages provided Lucas an opportunity to make a getaway. Lucas stayed for reasons that I will put in the speculation thread.



Lucas knew about the baby before Jeremy? OH HELL NO! Also, what's up with that "friends... with obligations" sh*t? Lizzie has EASILY surpassed Egan as my least favorite character. Hanging around Randall's hospital room, almost getting hit by a car, and the "friends" handshake all made me wish we could exchange her with Eva in The Nine.

I feel so bad for Nick... which I've said after each ep. Why must he be the "father" of this group? Why are these people constantly going to him with all their problems? However, gambling on the job isn't the best thing in the world.

I love me some Jeremy+Franny. BTW, who is watching annoying ass Ricky? Egan made me laugh with his "Oh, that's going to be a problem" line (paraphrasing).

I liked Kathryn actually being nice to her bf. He really doesn't seem like a bad guy.

[Invisible Shado]

Boo! Super short flashback at the beginning.

Whee! Yay for flashbacks during the show.

Boo! Repeating the same flashbacks in the same show!


But overall yay. Totally saw Egan leaving Mary. Nick was great in that scene, just the right amount of "oh dear god why are you on my doorstep?"
I don't really see the point of showing Nick gambling. We all know he has a problem. Use that time to show more about the suspect you're sweating out.

Or do they only show them working when it carries anvil-like double meanings that makes even random passerbys know something's up?

[Holey Moley]

Who was the woman that played Lucas' mother? I can't place her and it's driving me crazy.

[LawyerJ]

Who was the woman that played Lucas' mother? I can't place her and it's driving me crazy.

Veronica Cartwright, sister of Lost in Space & Sound of Music actress Angela.

Edited by LawyerJ, Oct 25, 2006 @ 10:54 PM.

[thuganomics85]

So, it looks like Randall and Lucas end up duking it out sometime during the hostage situation. I wonder what causes it. Perhaps something to do with Lizzie?

I really love Chi McBride on this show. I'm very impressed with his performance. It's so restrained.

Yeah, I love him too. He and his characters might not be as "big" as others on this show, but I can't help but to take an interest with Malcom. I'm glad they give a bit more depth, but showing that he religious. And I'm curious to see what's going to happen with the relationship between Franny and him. A surgical father-daughter realtionship perhaps?

Speaking of Malcolm's daughter: Where was Felicia? Did she even appear anywhere this episode? The actress must have been sick or it was her week off, or something. Strange.

Defintley suspect that Egan is going to continue to crash and burn.

Oh, Scott Wolf. Who to choose? The woman who's carrying your child, but you've pissed off to no end, or the woman who you got it on with at her sister's wake, and now has decided to be a cocktail waitress? How will Jeremy ever decide?

Edited by thuganomics85, Oct 25, 2006 @ 10:54 PM.

[arlykeeno]

Lucas's mother was Veronica Cartwright, who's been in a million things. She was the one vomiting millions of cherries in The Witches of Eastwick, for one.

I suppose reasonable attorneys can differ on the strategy question here, but that's how I'd see it.

I'm not sure I'm a reasonable attorney, but I agree with you, LawyerJ. If I were Lucas's defense attorney, I would go for Live Randall, absolutely separate the trials if at all possible, and blameblameblame Randall, while (if the door is opened for character witnesses) paint my client as a Great Guy who even gave part of his liver for his Rotten, Evil Brother.

[Holey Moley]

Veronica Cartwright, sister of Lost in Space & Sound of Music actress Angela.

Thanks so much!

ETA:

She was the one vomiting millions of cherries in The Witches of Eastwick, for one.

That's exactly what I recognized her from. Thanks!

Edited by Holey Moley, Oct 25, 2006 @ 11:04 PM.

[sunworshipper]

Also, what did she do to piss off Nick? Suddenly he's pawning her off on Kathryn?

I thought one of the point of this episode was to show Nick as someone who takes responsibility for others but has grown to hate it. And also, sometimes he's as not nearly as competent as he acts. He totally emphasized with the guy who bashed in his invalid parents' skulls, even as he tricked him into confessing. Note that Nick screwed up in the bank when Lucas and Randall left. He didn't lock the door behind them, he ignored Franny's suggestion that they leave via the back door, he blew off Malcolm's concerns about finding Felicia, etc. He tried to help Jeremy with his murder attempt and the whole Randall thing has gotten convoluted and may blow up in both of their faces.

eta: Duh! I just looked at the episode title. It's not just about Lucas and Randall.

Edited by sunworshipper, Oct 25, 2006 @ 11:10 PM.

[Hopeless]

I'm not a huge fan of Egan in the first place (a bit too much of a sad-sack), and as someone who loves living by myself, Egan's showing up on poor Nick's doorstep, hungover and with suitcases, inviting himself to stay, had me cringing in horror. Sheesh, way to put Nick on the spot there -- he couldn't have said no even if he wanted to!

Besides, how's Nick supposed to get naked with some lucky lady (I don't care who, as long as Nick's shirtless, at least) if he's got Egan as a roommate?

The "wonder twins" thing made me laugh; I never actually saw the show myself, but it was definitely something that kids talked about when I was in elementary school and was often incorporated into recess games.

I really liked the opening and closing montages with the gospel choir, but I'm easy that way.

[AquaGirl]

Another good episode...this is my favorite new show of the season and really, one of the only shows I'm currently watching that I really look forward to each week (The other is BSG, of course.).

Veronica Cartwright! OF COURSE! I couldn't place her either, but I knew I'd seen her in about a hundred things...pretty much literally, after I checked that IMBD link. That's one HELL of an IMDB entry. She was Cassandra Spender! And the girl who got hit in the face with blood in "Alien!" That's so awesome.

All the women on this show have such great hair! I've expressed my admiration before for Kathryn's hair and I loved the way Lizzie's hair was up when she was trying to visit Randall. It's a very attractive cast, but I wish Scott Wolf would eat something. His face looks so thin!

I'm more curious than ever about the events in the bank. In Lizzie's flashback, it looked to me like Randall was...petting her in a gross way...or something? And Lucas stopped him? Maybe? Interesting scene between Lucas and Lizzie. I wonder how her pregnancy became a topic of conversation between the two of them. That's kinda...weird.

Personally, I'd like a bit less Egan (Love the actor, but I'd prefer the character in smaller doses.) and Franny and more Nick, Kathryn, Felicia and Malcolm. I like that all the characters still get together to see each other. Their continued connection is very sweet.

[Sarmoti]

Weren't the Wonder Twins girls?

I think one was a boy, one was a girl, IIRC.

I bet when they were kids, Randall made Lucas be the girl.

[AlissaM]

I'm trying not to get attached and failing miserably. I think I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts.

Speaking of Malcolm's daughter: Where was Felicia? Did she even appear anywhere this episode? The actress must have been sick or it was her week off, or something. Strange.

I noticed that too! At least she was mentioned, but it's funny how they tried to make it like she was there at the cafe, but couldn't give any input when clearly she wasn't there.

No Kathryn/Lizzie this week? :( They were fantastic last week. Though I do like Kathryn's boyfriend much more than I expected to.

More evidence that Randall flipped out and the hostages Stokholm-esque behavior towards Lucas isn't entirely unwarranted. That's the most intriguing part about what's been revealed from in the bank.

I think I love Franny and I don't really know why.

[jen419]

I was taken aback to find out that Lizzie had told Lucas she was pregnant before she even told Jeremy. They must have spent some quality time together "in there".

Wasn't she the one screaming "don't hurt him, don't hurt him" as the SWAT team grabbed Lucas during the pilot?

I was also shocked by how vicious Randall was when he was beating up on Lucas. That guy is definately unstable.

Gives me a picture of how bad things must have gotten for the hostages if he was willing to to that to his brother. Wonder what the hell Lucas did to upset him that much? I'm beginning to think that perhaps when Nick referred to Randall as a "psycho" it was't an off-handed comment of anger. That perhaps we was. Alissa, I had the same impression.....that their reactions in defending him probably were for good reason. But...I want to see proof via flashback so I don't have to feel guilty liking Lucas.

Lucas is the dark horse in all of this. I'm guessing he is one of the main connecting links between all of the hostages, in terms of storyline. It seems as if he was involved in several things to protect them, so I wonder how his story will play out.

I have to admit....I never expected the character I'd be the most intrigued by and the most drawn to would be one of the "bad guys." I'm dying to know what his story is. And what he did in there.... The actor who plays him is quite good. He does alot of emoting with his (beautiful) eyes.

Edited by jen419, Oct 25, 2006 @ 11:52 PM.