1280 replies to this topic

[Shark Boy]

How cute were they last night?

[interestingname]

Incredibly cute!

My hope is that Karen is represented as a real character, someone you can relate to and care for, and not just a human plot device in between Jim and Pam. Like Katy was. I want her to be like Roy, who is appealling in his own way and someone that you could see Pam loving. He is more and more a very fleshed out character. We've only seen little moments of her thus far, but I really think she has the potential to be really awesome in her own right - and for her and Jim to have a really honest connection. If you can flirt by way of fake grenades, you're pretty impressive in my book.

I really like this direction, I think it's deeper than just a love triangle or square or whatever. Jim's in a new state, he doesn't know anyone but the people he works with, it makes sense that he would connect with someone in that way. It's not just a triangle for the sake of driving us crazy, it's a man trying to move on. And it doesn't hurt that he works near a totally cute, and apparently smart and wacky girl.

Edited by interestingname, Oct 6, 2006 @ 11:10 AM.

[cris1135]

Okay, first of all, hilarious title.
Second, even though I am (still) a total Jam shipper, I knew I liked Karen from that first ep when she did the Jim impression. Just as with Rachel on Britoffice (can't we just merge all words?), I think the whole Jim romance situation will be that much more interesting with a sympathetic third party involved. I think that's what they also are trying to do with Roy (make him nicer and less of a unappreciative dolt), so once everyone is together in Scranton (which I assume is pending shortly), it should be fun to watch!

[yippee]

So cute! I would love to see them develop Karen, the Karen/Jim relationship, and Roy so that this season, both Jim and Pam will have some tough choices to make. I think it would make things really interesting.

And I just like Karen/Jim...I think they're adorable :)

[Shark Boy]

I really like this direction, I think it's deeper than just a love triangle or square or whatever. Jim's in a new state, he doesn't know anyone but the people he works with, it makes sense that he would connect with someone in that way. It's not just a triangle for the sake of driving us crazy, it's a man trying to move on. And it doesn't hurt that he works near a totally cute, and apparently smart and wacky girl.

I agree, interestingname. I think it's totally plausible that Jim, in the process of trying to move on, would fall for--or at least date--the cute, smart & wacky girl in the cube over. To me, this aspect of the show feels very natural, and I really like the way they're building it up slowly.

Assuming, that is, that we're not misreading it, and that it IS building to something.

Just as with Rachel on Britoffice (can't we just merge all words?), I think the whole Jim romance situation will be that much more interesting with a sympathetic third party involved.

Yeah, cris1135, I'm really looking forward to seeing a ragingly jealous Pam come out as a result of Jim & Karen! Especially since she has no valid reason to be jealous--she had her shot and she blew it.

ETA:

I just watched the deleted scenes, and Jim's definitely crushing on Karen. If you haven't yet, check 'em out!

Edited by Shark Boy, Oct 6, 2006 @ 11:46 AM.

[arroz con pollo]

They didn’t have me until the very last moment. Karen threw the paper clips in the air and Jim started to walk away. She stares at him and then brings her hand up a little to wave, knowing he couldn’t possibly see her. I thought it was adorable. That’s when I realized I could handle this relationship.

[tabitha86]

moku613 - umm, if it comes down to it...at least know that I'll be on that ship with you...[/nervous]

Has anyone made a full turnaround from Jam to Karim (Pixel, I think you said you did)? Do you think you'll ever go back to Jam?

Anyway, so as not to infiltrate the Karim thread with all my Jam-love, I have to say I like Karim as a temporary solution to both Jim and Pam's need to grow a little bit. I warmed to Karen a lot quicker than I thought I would, and all it took was a smile, a "look how cute he is", and a little lipstick. But still...temporary, right? I'm afraid that if I grow to like her and Jam starts, I'll feel bad for her. And I don't want to.

Edited by tabitha86, Oct 6, 2006 @ 12:24 PM.

[Pixel]

Oh, don't get me wrong tabitha. I still like Pam and Jim too. It's just that I found Karen to be a great match for Jim and I realized that I don't think I care who Jim's with, I just want him happy. I care much more about Jim finding happiness after all his heart's been through than I care about Jim/Pam together.

So if he's happy, I'm happy.

[yippee]

I don't know that I've made a full turn around, but at this point, I wouldn't be totally disappointed if at the end of all of this, Jim & Karen ended up together and Roy & Pam ended up back together.

Though I was never a full-out Pam fan to begin with, so that might not count for much!

[frenchtoast]

See, I never was full on-board the Jam ship. If I were on the phone with Pam at Casino Night, I would have said, "Go for it! Do it!"

However, when I started watching this show, and up until now, I always felt that Jim and Pam only had the office as their "bond". Much of this was due to Pam's engagement in that we couldn't see how much Jim and Pam could interact without the construct of the office. It worried me that that was all that they had and if they did in fact go out on a date that all they would be able to talk about was work.

Jim doesn't have that restriction with Karen and I think he's seeing Karen not just as another office mate and someone to make work more bearable, but as a person who has a sense of humor and (most importantly to me) a personality. She doesn't hide herself when Josh or Andy or anyone comes around. I would think Jim would find that attractive; she's willing to take a risk where Pam wouldn't.

Right now, I'm eager to see how it plays out.

[tabitha86]

Pixel, I see what you're saying. And although I wish Jim were happy with Pam, that's clearly not possible right now. So I'd rather he be happy with someone else than sad-sack Jim missing Pam.

I can't believe I just said that. I love sack-sack Jim missing Pam.

I hope Karen thinks Andy is crazy. I think that would just add to Jim's content in Stamford. So far we haven't seen any interaction of Karen and Andy so I'm wondering if Andy really is the "crazy one" or if they just accept him there. I don't think I want to see Karen and Jim pranking Andy, or shooting each other looks; but some sort of interaction over his antics would be cute for their relationship I think. As long as it didn't remind me of Pam/Jim/Dwight. Like I said, I'm fine with Karim for now, so long as it doesn't just replace what Jim had with Pam in Scranton.

[Shark Boy]

I think Jim & Pam will probably wind up together in the end, but I'd be cool with it if they decided to have Jim chose Karen instead at the end of the series.

Assuming she continues to grow on me, as she did (in leaps and bounds!) last night.

TWHS.

Any way it shakes out, though, I think the series absolutely has to end with resolution on Jim & Pam. I like Karen, but she's still ancillary to the Jim & Pam saga.

So I guess, for me, it's less about who he ends up with than how the story unfolds. So long as it continues to be well-told and funny, and have legitimate, meaningful moments of drama, I'll be happy. And the way they've introduced Karen so far makes me pretty darn happy indeed.

[Pyramid]

I really like Karen. I think she'd be a nice match with Jim. However, I'd push her out the way like Michael hearing a fire alarm if/when Jim and Pam stat talking again.

[Pixel]

I really like Karen. I think she'd be a nice match with Jim. However, I'd push her out the way like Michael hearing a fire alarm if/when Jim and Pam stat talking again.

I agree. At least, right now I agree. Karen may keep growing on me, and I'll still like Pam, so then I'll be in a pickle, won't I?

[BlackCorduroy]

Has anyone made a full turnaround from Jam to Karim (Pixel, I think you said you did)? Do you think you'll ever go back to Jam?

I like Jim/Karen better than Jim/Pam, but there's no point getting attached to the former pairing. Karen might stay on longer than Season 3, I don't know. But there is no way Jim and Karen are getting into a full-fledged relationship. As much as we love to call "The Office" the anti-sitcom - as Dave Chappelle would say - it's not HBO, it's just regular-ass TV. NBC know they've got a good thing with Jim and Pam and they wouldn't risk turning off viewers by not making that happen.

Jim and Karen make a nice distraction though. I compare it to the first few episodes of Season 2 of 'The X-Files' when Mulder was separated from Scully and paired with Krycek. Made the return of the duo so much better.

[Kai]

This made me laaaaaaugh. Funny AND I agree with it.

I really like Karen. I think she'd be a nice match with Jim. However, I'd push her out the way like Michael hearing a fire alarm if/when Jim and Pam start talking again.

Awesome blossom, extra awesome.

Anyway, Karen's pretty swell, I think she and Jim will make a nice contrast to Jim and Pam.

Edited by Kai, Oct 6, 2006 @ 3:58 PM.

[Shark Boy]

Having said that, though, I can't agree with the sentiment that Karen is likely to 'challenge' Jim more than Pam. Like any relationship, she'll probably bring out new sides of him, and maybe if Jim dates Karen he *will* find himself more ambitious and genuinely invested in his work (though i'm not sure I'd like him better that way!) However, I do think that Pam is an intellectual match for Jim. She's obviously not 'living up to her potential', but IMO she's smart in the ways that count and in the ways that matter to Jim. I do like what we've seen of Karen, but I'm not convinced that she's more intellectually compatible with Jim than Pam is.

I think it's way too soon to tell how compatable they are or how the relationship will effect Jim. All I really know is that they had an easy, unspoken connection--chemistry, in a word.

And I think it's about time that Jim had chemistry with someone aside from Pam. Katie doesn't count; Jim was trying too hard with her--before he decided not to try at all.

[Bobby Bittman]

I took me seeing a looming Karim relationship to realize that Jim + Pam, as of the end of S2, would never have worked.

I base this on the fact that they knew each other only in the office. Even the non-site moments they shared involved the office ("The Dundies", "Booze Cruise", "Casino Night", "Michael's Birthday"). Pam being engaged, it was unlikely they would ever find any time just with each other. Roy would always be looming in the background, even if he wasn't present. From what we've seen so far, Karen and Jim could actually take a radical step and, I don't know, actually go out on dates. Genius!

I'm starting to wonder if all along Jim was really in love with the idea of Pam, instead of Pam herself and how much he was idealizing her. I base this on something that seems clear now: The real Pam wasn't even present. Or if that was the real Pam, then she was not much of a catch after all.

I think that's why I was starting to sour a bit on Jam at the end of last year - she seemed so utterly clueless. The possibility that she was intentionally clueless made it worse. Really: How attractive could a person be when she made such terrible choices and avoided so many important matters?

Thank God Jim forced the issue.

So my philosophy at this point is that unless and until Pam gets her shit together, Jim's better off. If he can find happiness with Karen, great. He deserves some joy. He deserves some time not carrying a bunch of baggage around.

All of this changes drastically, depending on what Pam does now. TPTB are obviously sprucing up the character and giving her some much-needed life. But this has to be about her changing, not about her changing for Jim. Otherwise, we're back to wondering who the real Pam is.

Further, would Jim still swoon over assertive Pam, or was he so wrapped up in the passive, meek girl who needed "saving"?

(As an aside, that's why I was so uncomfortable with the NBC promo monkeys were playing up the romantic angle so heavily in the run-up to "GWH".)

All of that is context as to why it seems I (and several others, apparently) have capriciously jumped from Jam to Karim. Fact is, I was already off the Jam bandwagon, at least the S2 model. So if it makes sense for there to be a Karim bandwagon, then I'll hop up there. But if a new and improved Jam bandwagon comes along, then I'll be completely open to that as well.

I'd love for the latter to happen, because that would necessarily mean that Pam has become a better person, much more worthy of Jim's true affections.

Edited by Bobby Bittman, Oct 6, 2006 @ 4:15 PM.

[Baker23]

And I think it's about time that Jim had chemistry with someone aside from Pam. Katie doesn't count; Jim was trying too hard with her--before he decided not to try at all.

He didn’t know Katie, and when he started to get to know her, he found out he wasn’t interested. When Roy asked whether Katie was a cheerleader, for instance, Jim answered no and was (unpleasantly) surprised when she said yes, and I think the beginning of the end of that relationship was when he found out that Legally Blonde was her favorite movie.

Karen seems considerably more hip, more interesting, funnier, and deeper than Katie. Of course, this is based on a little action with some paperclips, so that could be way off. It's amazing how appealing the writers and actors managed to make Jim and Karen as a couple in a few moments of screen time.

Edited by Baker23, Oct 6, 2006 @ 5:38 PM.

[yippee]

All of that is context as to why it seems I (and several others, apparently) have capriciously jumped from Jam to Karim. Fact is, I was already off the Jam bandwagon, at least the S2 model. So if it makes sense for there to be a Karim bandwagon, then I'll hop up there. But if a new and improved Jam bandwagon comes along, then I'll be completely open to that as well.

I completely agree with everything you said Bobby Bittman. After watching the past few episodes, I've come to realize that I wasn't on the JAM bandwagon before--I was on the Jim bandwagon. Last season, if you were on the Jim bandwagon you had to be on the JAM bandwagon because you wanted the guy to get the girl. This season, it's a bit different--and being on the Jim bandwagon doesn't necessarily lead to to Pam any more.

So it's not like I switched from liking Pam to liking Karen, it's that I've always just liked Jim.

[Namonaki]

I sorta jumped from the Jam bandwagon, Tabitha but like yippee said, I was more on the Jim bandwagon anyway. Through the first two seasons, that meant Jam because that was the only thing that would seem to make him happy. Now that he's hopefully moving on, Karim is his best chance to be happy right now. Pam just doesn't seem like she deserves him now, if only for the fact that she's stuck in neutral. I'd have liked to see her become more assertive in expressing what she wants, and the "fashion show" showed that she's still the same pushover she always was. Jim needs an equal to challenge him, but somebody who will back down if he doesn't give up right away.

[Fionnuala]

Further, would Jim still swoon over assertive Pam, or was he so wrapped up in the passive, meek girl who needed "saving"?

I don't think this is fair at all. We've never been given reason to believe that Jim felt the need or desire to "save" meek Pam. All the evidence we've been offered about why he likes her has to do with her less meek attributes (her sense of humor, her warmth, her intelligence and creativity in helping him prank Dwight). In fact, I think we've been given every reason to believe that Jim would dig a more assertive Pam.

But this is not the Jim and Pam thread, so I will get back on topic: of course I am still rooting for Jam, but I agree with everyone else who likes Karen. I was definitely expecting not to really like her, but she won me over with her talking head in the first episode. Obviously we don't really know enough about her yet to make thorough judgments, but she definitely seems like she might be a decent match for Jim. I'm interested to see how it plays out anyway, so long as it doesn't go on for TOO long.

[annlaw78]

I agree with those who are really more Jimophiles than Jamophiles. In fact, as I've gone on about ad nauseam in the Jam thread, I grew to find Pam tiresome and frankly a pill over the course of last season. She was pretty much cheating on Roy in all but deed, and leading Jim on. Now, perhaps she did both in an attempt to make both men happy, but still, not a great character trait. Her treatment of Phyllis in Valentine's Day, her continuing to flirt with Jim after the Booze Cruise... it made her less likeable to me. For someone who supposedly is so self-conscious and lacking confidence, she seemed to require a lot of attention.

And this season, her growth has been glacial. It's now four months since Jim confessed his love, she broke up with Roy, etc. And she's still not the same mousy, can't-stand-up-for-myself Pam. Tell Creed off, for pity's sake. The blouse she was so uncomfortable wearing was pretty modest -- no cleavage and blousy waisted. She's supposed to be a grown woman. I wish she'd start acting like it and show some sort of development on-screen since she's left Roy.

All that to say, I think it will be nice for Jim to be with someone who isn't the walking bag of issues that Pam currently is.

[parlayvoofrans]

I want to say for the record - I think "Jaren" is a much better nickname than "Karim". But as I am entering this conversation so late, I'll bite my tongue.

The more I think about it, Karen is the perfect foil to Jim. She's sexier, more cosmopolitan. I wonder if in the world of the show she is supposed to be half-black, as she is in real life? Anyway, there is something very New Yorky about her that is good for the side of Jim where we always wanted him to be more ambitious. And yet, she is cute enough to play games with him.

While Pam and him would play pranks, Karen plays computer games - she's a little more high-tech than Pam. Furthermore, she is bold and funny. This is gonna get gooooood...

[Uncle June]

Yeah, i wondered the same thing too about Karen. I wasn't sure if Rashida Jones is famous enough for general knowledge to be that she is half-black. She is fantastic in this show though. She was faced with the most scary shoes to fill and she's been doing a great, great, great job! So pretty!

[bbob]

I agree with everyone upthread who was making the case for caring about these characters, not necessarily these couples. I want JIM to be happy. I want PAM to be happy. If that means JAM, then so be it. But, if that means Karim or P(insert part of name of someone else to make a cute/snappy name here), then I'm all for that, too. Not to take anything away from our Pam, but Karen is just - wow! On the surface (and that's all we've seen of her so far) she is every guy's fantasy. Smart, sassy, funny, dorky, snarky, hot. (Does Rashida look like her mom, or what?) Not only is she the perfect rebound woman for Jim, she may be the perfect woman for Jim. If the writers can handle this and develop it well (and make Pam happy and contented, too) them I'm okay with the Karim ship.

[Lillywhite]

I love it! I may be one of the 3 The Office fans who isn't totally a Jim/Pam shipper. I mean, they're okay and all, but ugh, sometimes I kinda get the feeling Pam doesn't deserve Jim. I get really tired of her wishy washiness. I recognize I'm the only person in the world who feels this way, though.

Love Karen, though. She had me at "Call of Duty! *rock sign*" Love her confidence, love her whackiness, love the little shy smiles, aw. Plus, any chick who can kick ass at war computer games is more than okay with me. I think she and Jim could have a lot of fun together and I think she'd really appreciate him in a way Pam hasn't.