This is the one thread in which to discuss all aspects of the relationship between these two. Like it, don't like it, think it's boring, think it's the best thing ever: it all goes here. Just remember to be nice to each other.
I will also take ideas for a cute subtitle -- but only via e-mail (ltg@televisionwithoutpity.com).
Meredith & McDreamy: Would someone please pick somebody?
Started by
LTG
, Oct 05 2006 10:53 AM
19490 replies to this topic
#1
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:53 AM
#2
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 11:21 AM
I think we can work with that, LTG. Thanks for creating a new thread for us.
Brought over from the Ferryboat thread:
I always thought of the safe/unsafe choice as fitting better with the LOST triangle than with GA. There's no question that Finn's "safe," but I don't see Derek as "unsafe" -- he was unavailable, but that was mostly on him. He didn't tempt her into any criminal activity, drug use, or otherwise destructive behavior. If you take their relationship for what it was (and ignore his lying about the wife), she spent their relationship mostly sober -- she didn't have a reason to drown her sorrows. Sure it was illicit between attending and intern, but so was Cristina's, and I don't buy that as enough to make the coupling "unsafe." She was still able to do her job, she actively worked to ensure that she wasn't accorded special preference, and Derek made her happy. Truly happy -- for a woman like Meredith, that doesn't come easily. OK, so she lost out on some sleep...I didn't hear her complaining (and nor would I be).
But now that they're trying again, I think that Meredith will come back to the relationship with a new eye -- I don't think she'll see him as hiding things from her now, but I do think that she'll be more gunshy when it comes to his overtures of feelings and plans (should he put forth his own to challenge Finn's). Any insecurity or lack of safety comes from trust, and I think that those trust issues constitute a different dilemma for Meredith than the safe-unsafe one. Trust issues do not equal risky. Unsafe situtions require insurance and alternatives to mitigate the risk -- unsafe = need a lifevest. Trust-issue situations require no alternatives, just solid and constant reassurance. If Derek were unsafe, then Finn would stay around even if Meredith went back to McDreamy --- she'd want a way out. But Derek's burned Meredith before, and so he has to present her with a commitment that sticks, and Finn can't help with that. It has to be Derek's doing, and in order to make Meredith a commitment of that magnitude, there are issues that they each have to work through.
Finn's around for the initial choice, but it's not the safe/unsafe dichotomy after that.
Brought over from the Ferryboat thread:
Thanks for reminding me of this, HBR. This was part of why I liked the Mer/Der interaction in S2 -- he knows her, and he stood by her even when many of her other friends were keeping their distance. This says something to me about their mutual "scary and damaged" pasts -- they both do terrible things, but it doesn't seem to get in the way of how deeply they get each other. Meredith tried to be supportive of his marriage, but as the ex-mistress, it's understandable how she would be a little ill-suited to the task. Derek temporarily set aside his claim to her and was supportive of her efforts to apologize to George, even though it ended up haunting him right through Prom.I don't know if I put all that much faith in the whole Finn is the safe choice and Derek is the unsafe bad boy dynamic anymore, if I ever did to begin with. It all seems way too simple and one dimensional to me. Back during S1, Derek proved himself to be a very kind and considerate and caring boyfriend, who was just as good a person for Meredith to be with, as Finn is is for her in S3, maybe even more so. Plus he was a very, very good friend to her in parts of S2, it could be argued even more so than Izzie or George or Christina even were.
I always thought of the safe/unsafe choice as fitting better with the LOST triangle than with GA. There's no question that Finn's "safe," but I don't see Derek as "unsafe" -- he was unavailable, but that was mostly on him. He didn't tempt her into any criminal activity, drug use, or otherwise destructive behavior. If you take their relationship for what it was (and ignore his lying about the wife), she spent their relationship mostly sober -- she didn't have a reason to drown her sorrows. Sure it was illicit between attending and intern, but so was Cristina's, and I don't buy that as enough to make the coupling "unsafe." She was still able to do her job, she actively worked to ensure that she wasn't accorded special preference, and Derek made her happy. Truly happy -- for a woman like Meredith, that doesn't come easily. OK, so she lost out on some sleep...I didn't hear her complaining (and nor would I be).
But now that they're trying again, I think that Meredith will come back to the relationship with a new eye -- I don't think she'll see him as hiding things from her now, but I do think that she'll be more gunshy when it comes to his overtures of feelings and plans (should he put forth his own to challenge Finn's). Any insecurity or lack of safety comes from trust, and I think that those trust issues constitute a different dilemma for Meredith than the safe-unsafe one. Trust issues do not equal risky. Unsafe situtions require insurance and alternatives to mitigate the risk -- unsafe = need a lifevest. Trust-issue situations require no alternatives, just solid and constant reassurance. If Derek were unsafe, then Finn would stay around even if Meredith went back to McDreamy --- she'd want a way out. But Derek's burned Meredith before, and so he has to present her with a commitment that sticks, and Finn can't help with that. It has to be Derek's doing, and in order to make Meredith a commitment of that magnitude, there are issues that they each have to work through.
Finn's around for the initial choice, but it's not the safe/unsafe dichotomy after that.
#3
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 2:58 PM
There's no question that Finn's "safe," but I don't see Derek as "unsafe" -- he was unavailable, but that was mostly on him
Thank you everblue3 for pointing that out!!! I think what drives Shonda's feelings toward Derek being unsafe is that he fell out of love with Addison as opposed to Finn who would have probably stayed true to his wife if she hadn't died. (pure speculation, mind you) I know I'm grasping at straws, but keep in mind, I'm on your side, just trying to understand it as well. So who is to say that a man who cleary let his relationship with his wive fall apart (I'm talking pre-cheating here, which ergo caused the cheating) won't do it again with Meredith. What if to Derek, it is only chasing women that gives him the euphoria, and after that to Hell with them.
#4
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 5:13 PM
Moku, I got the feeling that Shonda thinks Derek is unsafe because he proved to be untrustworthy. Meredith completely put her faith in him and at some point he should have told her he had a wife back in NY. Yes, I know he was going to tell her (eventually), but he should have done so right from the start; when he met her at the bar.
#5
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 6:17 PM
Ok, now that my heart has started beating at a normal pace again and I can see that LTG only shutdown the Ferryboat thread in the interests of TWoP housekeeping and not because we pissed her off, maybe I can form a sane and rational thought...breath in, breath in, breath in, breath out...Seriously dude, this place is my crack. Ya nearly gave me a heart attack there for a sec.
I agree, that that is very,very possible, but if that is the case then Shonda needs to tell us that, and flesh it out and explain it some more,and stop putting these silly, one dimensional, one-size-fits-all labels on everyone and every thing.
Exactly. Total word. Ya want a hot and sexy bad boy? How about Viper. Yeah, we loved him and that twinkle in his eye BUT he participated in a bike race where people GOT KILLED and it was just FOR KICKS. There is a classic bad boy right there. Derek would never in a million years do something as stupid or selfish as that. He sooooo ain't no bad boy. He is a good man who has made some bad choices, its not the same thing.
I got the feeling that Shonda thinks Derek is unsafe because he proved to be untrustworthy. Meredith completely put her faith in him and at some point he should have told her he had a wife back in NY. Yes, I know he was going to tell her (eventually), but he should have done so right from the start; when he met her at the bar.
I agree, that that is very,very possible, but if that is the case then Shonda needs to tell us that, and flesh it out and explain it some more,and stop putting these silly, one dimensional, one-size-fits-all labels on everyone and every thing.
I always thought of the safe/unsafe choice as fitting better with the LOST triangle than with GA. There's no question that Finn's "safe," but I don't see Derek as "unsafe" -- he was unavailable, but that was mostly on him. He didn't tempt her into any criminal activity, drug use, or otherwise destructive behavior. If you take their relationship for what it was (and ignore his lying about the wife), she spent their relationship mostly sober -- she didn't have a reason to drown her sorrows. Sure it was illicit between attending and intern, but so was Cristina's, and I don't buy that as enough to make the coupling "unsafe." She was still able to do her job, she actively worked to ensure that she wasn't accorded special preference, and Derek made her happy. Truly happy -- for a woman like Meredith, that doesn't come easily. OK, so she lost out on some sleep...I didn't hear her complaining (and nor would I be).
Exactly. Total word. Ya want a hot and sexy bad boy? How about Viper. Yeah, we loved him and that twinkle in his eye BUT he participated in a bike race where people GOT KILLED and it was just FOR KICKS. There is a classic bad boy right there. Derek would never in a million years do something as stupid or selfish as that. He sooooo ain't no bad boy. He is a good man who has made some bad choices, its not the same thing.
Edited by HotButteredRum, Oct 5, 2006 @ 6:20 PM.
#6
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 9:03 PM
delete
Edited by maxnsam, Oct 5, 2006 @ 9:16 PM.
#7
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 9:27 PM
McDouchy sucks, and I like Meredith so much more when she's not totally wrapped up in him (which isn't often).
I hate how he uses his position as her superior to his benefit in their romantic relationship. Pulling her away from his competition with the lure of a surgery? Not cool. Getting ridiculously close to her in tight spaces while he's married and she's unsure of whether or not she wants to be with him? Also not cool. McDouchey? Not cool.
I hate how he uses his position as her superior to his benefit in their romantic relationship. Pulling her away from his competition with the lure of a surgery? Not cool. Getting ridiculously close to her in tight spaces while he's married and she's unsure of whether or not she wants to be with him? Also not cool. McDouchey? Not cool.
#8
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 9:44 PM
Who else saw Derek's self-congratulatory speech on the way to surgery about how Finn's trying, and -- hey -- gotta give the guy a medal for trying, but really... who watched that and immediately remembered Meredith's, "You really like yourself, huh?"
I gotta say...I like it that Derek is a bit cocky in all this, and that at the end of the episode, he was put down with as much force as Finn. In a pissing contest, he wins, hands down -- the dude cut open a guy's brain and cut it in half. Finn...had someone make ice cream? Granted, it was strawberry, and so he got romantic points with Mere for remembering that she liked strawberry, but come on -- busting in on their date after his lunch-date was interrupted? I thought Meredith's snap-and-let'm-have-it was well-deserved. Dating should be fun.
That said... wtfbbq with the promos for next week? Who's the father? Did Mere ever even sleep with McBWMWD? I understand now what Kristin was saying about how he'd lure Meredith away from Finn, but I have to say that I had higher hopes for Derek than by using SURGERY. Step up your game, Derek! You had such a great first season!! Let's revisit it, shall we?
I gotta say...I like it that Derek is a bit cocky in all this, and that at the end of the episode, he was put down with as much force as Finn. In a pissing contest, he wins, hands down -- the dude cut open a guy's brain and cut it in half. Finn...had someone make ice cream? Granted, it was strawberry, and so he got romantic points with Mere for remembering that she liked strawberry, but come on -- busting in on their date after his lunch-date was interrupted? I thought Meredith's snap-and-let'm-have-it was well-deserved. Dating should be fun.
That said... wtfbbq with the promos for next week? Who's the father? Did Mere ever even sleep with McBWMWD? I understand now what Kristin was saying about how he'd lure Meredith away from Finn, but I have to say that I had higher hopes for Derek than by using SURGERY. Step up your game, Derek! You had such a great first season!! Let's revisit it, shall we?
#9
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:33 PM
OMG, so much McDreamy love going on tonight. So much cockiness, so much smirking, so much calling it like it is re Finn being out of his depth, so much yummy hand holding, so much giddy glee very much evident on Mer's face to see Derek bring his A game, versus the awkwardness on her face whenever Finn shows up, so much love for the look in his face as he turned around and headed back over to Mer's table in the cafeteria, the look on his face as he shook his sugar packet up was freaking priceless.
Dammit, I knew he'd get slammed for that. Sigh. He hit below the belt I give you that, but Mer was totally, totally digging it. That much was evident. She had a very hard time wiping the smirk off her own face, if not in the moment, but it was very much there later on when he made his classic tuna salad remark. Gawd, I so want to change my user name now to either Take Care ! or Tuna Salad.
He sure did. Granted, the night didn't end in the manner of his choosing, but at least he/they got the major nuts and bolts of their evening ( dinner ) under their belts, before Finn showed up and blew Dereks plans for the rest of the evening all to hell. But at least the dinner part of their evening was a roaring success. Unlike Finn's lunch date with Mer, no one showed up half way thru their meal to get her to leave.
everblue, that promo freaked me out a bit too, but I am calmer now. I bet it is just a one week wonder false alarm thing and a juicy one ep story that is fun to explore, but that it is over and done with in one ep, just like the syph was back in 1.09 and the poison oak was in 2.20. There is no way Shonda would let a major, major plot spoiler like that be leaked in a promo, no way.
I hate how he uses his position as her superior to his benefit in their romantic relationship. Pulling her away from his competition with the lure of a surgery?
Dammit, I knew he'd get slammed for that. Sigh. He hit below the belt I give you that, but Mer was totally, totally digging it. That much was evident. She had a very hard time wiping the smirk off her own face, if not in the moment, but it was very much there later on when he made his classic tuna salad remark. Gawd, I so want to change my user name now to either Take Care ! or Tuna Salad.
In a pissing contest, he wins, hands down
He sure did. Granted, the night didn't end in the manner of his choosing, but at least he/they got the major nuts and bolts of their evening ( dinner ) under their belts, before Finn showed up and blew Dereks plans for the rest of the evening all to hell. But at least the dinner part of their evening was a roaring success. Unlike Finn's lunch date with Mer, no one showed up half way thru their meal to get her to leave.
everblue, that promo freaked me out a bit too, but I am calmer now. I bet it is just a one week wonder false alarm thing and a juicy one ep story that is fun to explore, but that it is over and done with in one ep, just like the syph was back in 1.09 and the poison oak was in 2.20. There is no way Shonda would let a major, major plot spoiler like that be leaked in a promo, no way.
Edited by HotButteredRum, Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:40 PM.
#10
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:35 PM
::sniff:: i miss the anti thread
#11
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:39 PM
Yeah, OK, Meredith thought it was amusing...but I think she expected a bit more out of him on the romance side. It's not enough for him to get her way from Finn. He's still got some winning back to do. He hasn't done a damn thing about all those trust issues, yet.Dammit, I knew he'd get slammed for that. Sigh. He hit below the belt I give you that, but Mer was totally, totally digging it.
#12
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 11:03 PM
Did yall notice Mer/Der holding hands? Thought it was a super sweet detail.
Poor Finn just can't compete can he? He can't even sabotage a date on the same level...
Poor Finn just can't compete can he? He can't even sabotage a date on the same level...
#13
Posted Oct 5, 2006 @ 11:41 PM
Did yall notice Mer/Der holding hands?
I did, I did, I did. It made me freaking giddy, giddy I tell ya. Giddy, giddy, giddy.
He hasn't done a damn thing about all those trust issues, yet.
That we know of. We went into tonights episode thinking that 3.03 would pick up right after 3.02 time line wise, in the same way that 3.02 picked up right after 3.01 and 3.01 picked up right after 2.27. So that should put us at Day 3 or 4 post prom, right? Wrong. There were mentions tonight of Callie living at Meredith's house for over a week and Burke being 3 weeks in rehab after his surgery. So while the timeline of some of the stuff on the show (Mer-Der-Ads-Mark ) is happening over a 3 to 4 day time span, other stuff seems to be happening at a much more rapid pace. It is all very confusing, so to save myself an ulcer, I am going to just suspend belief and presume that all kinds of important things and discussions have already happened on the show from Derek and Meredith having already talked their trust issues thru, to Derek telling Meredith about him and Ads splitting for good to Meredith explaining to Finn that Derek is now separated from Ads, hence his availability as a potential suitor for her.... but that we just never saw it happen on the show due to too many overly busy plot and character story line and a majorly fucked up timeline.
#14
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 12:47 AM
I do not understand how Meredith would still want to date Derek after he acted like a childish, petty, flat out jerk all day. Nor do I understand why Finn would even put up with any of that. If I were him, I'd make Meredith's choice for her by telling her where she could shove her dating, if that's how it was going to work out. This whole thing is fucked up in a really uncomfortable way.
#15
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 12:57 AM
I do have to say Finn putting up with Derek and Derek and Meredith after having all of 2 dates with Meredith is a little beyond my realm of belief. I mean I know she's cool and likes pony births and he has plans...But I can't understand why any rationale person would stick around when there is obviously tons of baggage flying around with two people. Especially, after the two people slept together. His role is over. He is a plot device and not a very good one at that. He needs to be gone, because, honestly, the more interesting story will be Derek and Meredith working through their issues. God knows they will have them.
#16
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 1:02 AM
But Finn does not know Mere and Derek had sex. He doesn't even know there was an exam room. He didn't want to hear about it. But i agree, even without that knowledge any person can see that Mere loves Derek so why Finn still thinks he has a chance is beyond me. Perhaps he thinks that he is the 'safe' choice and Mere will choose him in the end because of that.
#17
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 2:37 AM
All I have to say is: Finn, thank you for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.
And someone please shove something in Addisons whiny crocodile tear mouth. I'm sure Mark and can help with that.
Love the Mer/Der of it all.
And someone please shove something in Addisons whiny crocodile tear mouth. I'm sure Mark and can help with that.
Love the Mer/Der of it all.
#19
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:15 AM
And someone please shove something in Addisons whiny crocodile tear mouth. I'm sure Mark and can help with that.
Absolutely perfect. That scene bugged the shit out of me.
Finn brings ice cream to the table, and Derek brings himself to the table. What a tough choice! <insert eye roll and snicker>
Edited by bitterpill, Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:16 AM.
#20
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:19 AM
Derek brought a split-brain (surgery) to the table. So you're right, he did bring himself.
Edited by ShepherdSquared, Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:24 AM.
#21
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:24 AM
The problem with this dysfunctional couple is that it is not upon the other people to bow out to make the Meh/Deh love commence. Addy should leave so that Derek can go back to Meh was a popular refrain last season, now Finn should bow out!! No it's upon Meh or McDouche to grow a pair of balls and say that they don't want to be with the other person. The only people privy to all their close disgusting moments are Meh and McDouche, so if they want to be together so damn badly stop fucking with other people's emotions and get together.
Treating people like crap until they leave you makes you a shitty person, like instead of making a decision they rather be emotional fuckwads, that's why I can't stand this pair, Meh doesn't even act like she wants to be with Finn, so what the hell is she doing?? Is EP not conveying it correctly, are the writers so damn stupid that they're not even making it a choice??
Treating people like crap until they leave you makes you a shitty person, like instead of making a decision they rather be emotional fuckwads, that's why I can't stand this pair, Meh doesn't even act like she wants to be with Finn, so what the hell is she doing?? Is EP not conveying it correctly, are the writers so damn stupid that they're not even making it a choice??
Edited by sking2, Oct 6, 2006 @ 9:48 AM.
#22
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 10:32 AM
I just don't see why either of these two hot guys are crazy for Mer...she's weird looking and boring!
#23
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 10:36 AM
Did yall notice Mer/Der holding hands?
I did, I did. I thought it was a really cute detail. I enjoyed it(When I wasnt sick to my stomach from my other ship of course. Liking both A/D and D/M is not easy)
#24
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 10:53 AM
Did she actually roll her eyes when she left for her "date" with Finn?
Loved the hand-holding. And please, they both knew that if he got one foot in that house, there would be panties everywhere. But I wanted to give her a big dose of STFU when she was whining about not getting felt up and candy and shit. Uh, this dick-measuring contest was your idea, honey. You let those beasts out of the cage. Why don't you just send the Good Humour Man on his way and let's get down to business already.
Loved the hand-holding. And please, they both knew that if he got one foot in that house, there would be panties everywhere. But I wanted to give her a big dose of STFU when she was whining about not getting felt up and candy and shit. Uh, this dick-measuring contest was your idea, honey. You let those beasts out of the cage. Why don't you just send the Good Humour Man on his way and let's get down to business already.
Edited by Maraschino, Oct 6, 2006 @ 10:53 AM.
#25
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 11:34 AM
And please, they both knew that if he got one foot in that house, there would be panties everywhere.
Yeh-I'm even more pissed at Finn than I normally am because he interupted a potentially very hot scene between Der/Mer inside her house. Go Away Finn.
#26
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 11:57 AM
OMG, so much McDreamy love going on tonight. So much cockiness, so much smirking, so much calling it like it is re Finn being out of his depth, so much yummy hand holding, so much giddy glee very much evident on Mer's face to see Derek bring his A game, versus the awkwardness on her face whenever Finn shows up, so much love for the look in his face as he turned around and headed back over to Mer's table in the cafeteria, the look on his face as he shook his sugar packet up was freaking priceless.
Yep.
Even though the writers insist on keeping McPlotDevice around for one more episode at least, they are still bringing the Mer/Der goodness for us and I am loving them for it.
Derek totally nailed Finn: he's out of his league. I loved his self-confidence, where Finn is just fumbling for any advantage he can get--and finding none, I might add. Also, Derek's little "one of your patient's owners" remark to Finn was just the capper. And he looked SO. FREAKING. HOT. working the sweater/shirt combo.
I know EP's acting isn't for everyone, but I think she does a great job reacting to Derek and Finn. She does a great job of giving Derek the natural, almost instataneous, happy face, whereas Finn gets the "oh, here comes the nice Vet boy...better put on my happy face" look. It's subtle, but it's clearly there. I love it.
#27
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 3:29 PM
Derek totally nailed Finn: he's out of his league.
Just what does that mean, out of his league? That oh-so-flawed Meredith is too good for him? Or that McDreamy, who spends a year fucking over both his wife and his girlfriend and then acts like a childish, smarmy asshole in a silly dating contest, is a better man than Finn, who genuinely cares about other people and who brings a girl he barely knows lunch because someone she cared about died? I find both arguments ridiculously implausible.
Now, if we're talking about The Prick League, then I'll agree that McDreamy far outranks him.
#28
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 3:46 PM
I dont know about y'all but for me all's fair in love and war. I dont care what/how Derek lures Mer away from Finn (he used one of his weapons - a cool surgery). Finn rose to the challenge by crashing their dinner date (the bad boy always gets the girl). Derek is very much aware Meredith loves him ... but she is being cautious, weighing up her option. I think this is what Derek means by Finn being out of his league. I love a confident Derek.
#29
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 3:55 PM
Ah, I miss the old MerDer Love Train thread..It was filled with love..My little shipper's heart was happy there.
Not a complaint, I just don't see any cute names here..
Not a complaint, I just don't see any cute names here..
Edited by Lauren S, Oct 7, 2006 @ 1:52 PM.
#30
Posted Oct 6, 2006 @ 4:05 PM
Habs, ditto.
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