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19 Kids and Counting (And Other Duggar Family Programs)


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#24541

Tofu88

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Posted Nov 15, 2009 @ 5:55 PM

If the Duggar parents have been consistently training their children to have self-control then nothing bad should happen.

Yeah, the whole "self-control" thing is one of the Duggarisms that I really don't get. How can a person exercise self-control when they never have the opportunity to err? Doesn't make sense. Perfect example is when Joy covered up the women while they were watching "The View" or when the girls yell NIKE! to alert their brothers to scant clothing. That teaches no kind of self-control whatsoever. That teaches that other people (i.e. women, surprise surprise) are responsible for not putting you in a position where you would need to control yourself. It may seem wholesome enough, but to me it's just a variation on the attitude that leads people to ask a girl who's been assaulted what she was wearing at the time.

Edited by Tofu88, Nov 15, 2009 @ 7:38 PM.

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#24542

PlathsDaddy

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Posted Nov 15, 2009 @ 6:44 PM

The chaperone issue is also part of the bogus self-control. Josh and Anna are legal adults in the eyes of the law. They have entered into an engagement that will become a marriage that legally did not require the consent of either set of parents. But they can't be trusted alone (even to propose)?

When is this "self-control" ever allowed to actually be tested? What if J&A frontally hugged in Jinger's presence? What would she REALLY do? Call out Anna as a defrauder (because as we know, in Gothard/Quiverfull circles, it's ALWAYS the woman's fault)? I wonder how sweet Michelle keep it when one of her brood decides to live their life a little less conservatively.
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#24543

Shae24

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Posted Nov 15, 2009 @ 9:37 PM

I really can't wait to hear Jim Bob explain the rules of hockey. /sarcasm I wonder if any little J'boys will "play" hockey at home?

Looking at the recap, they didn't get to see any fights, which is very sad.
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#24544

MIengineer

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 2:07 PM

I'm guessing this was already posted, but just in case, it's the article from People Magazine about Mackynzie's arrival...

http://www.people.co...0313997,00.html
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#24545

NoServe

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 3:32 PM

I can't believe I am about to defend the Duggars, but.... I think everyone is missing the point on the courtship/chaperone issue. The Duggars are trying to avoid situations that have the potential to lead to temptations. I don't think they explained it very well on any of the shows about Josh's courtship, engagement, or wedding.

Most Christian churches teach the concept of original sin. All people are born with a sinful nature. It has little to do with self control or trust. We are by nature weak and just sin. Anyone who has read A Purpose Driven Life may recall that it discusses that the way to avoid sin is to avoid situations/activities/people that might be tempting. I think that is all the Duggars are doing. It is far less likely that people will commit a sexual sin when there are other people around. The Duggars simply acknowledge, more than most, that people have a sinful nature. I doubt they view it as lack of trust or think that Josh and Anna were so bad that they could not be alone together. The Duggars also want to avoid the possible appearance of sin-if a couple is alone, they could commit a sexual sin. Their boundaries are simply much more restrictive than most and are meant to help a couple avoid behavior they view as improper.

That being said, I think that there seems to be way too much focus on premarital sex/kissing/hugging as sin and none on the fact that sex is a biological urge and sexual feelings are normal, even before marriage. Would the Duggars ever discuss this with their children? I have never heard this mentioned on the show. Do they really think that all the hand sex Josh and Anna had before the wedding lead to no impure thoughts? I get what they are trying to do with the chaperones, but I think there is some head-in-the-sand behavior here.

Jim Bob has mentioned Michelle's baggage from before marriage-do they really think ANY contact is baggage? And what about a widow or widower? Can they remarry a person who has never been married? What about a person who sinned and then became a Christian of the Gothard variety? I would love to see a show where the Duggars discuss their beliefs more in depth, especially those on premarital sex, marriage, and forgiveness of prior sin.
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#24546

Pennybrooke

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 3:53 PM

The old episodes with the Bates and skydiving are on right now, and Jana really did seem a little 'brighter,' a little more high-energy back then. And the 20 Years ep used previously unseen footage of her post-skydiving to demonstrate that she was high-energy vs. JD. I hope that spark is just hiding and hasn't been snuffed out.
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#24547

PlathsDaddy

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 5:16 PM

I watched those too; the first appearance of the Bates and those clown dresses. I know we snark on the Duggars' poor grammar, syntax, etc. with good reason. Here's another; Boob tells the assembled group that "It'll be fun to shoot at each other today." THEN he goes on to explain the paintball game. Good on him for going skydiving though. I readily admit that I have vertigo and could NEVER do it.

Amy was particularly feisty in these episodes what with her Ipod filled with music from "country to hard rock" to avoid listening to hours of hymns and comments about the enormity of seeing those two families together "It's not for everybody" to some more subtle remarks aimed at the prairie dresses. This was the Bates' first trip to the Duggars and they claimed they hadn't seen each other in 7 years before that so Amy had never met them. I did find a peculiarity in logistics when Boob remarked that they met the Bates first at a fathers' conference then later at the ATI (he just said homeschool) conferences, and went on to say they would see the Bateses on their way to said conferences. Maybe the Nashville conference used to be the "biggie?" Even so, isn't Nashville west of the Bateses' homestead in the first place (ie. they'd still have to travel out of their way to visit)? All I know about TN is that the Bateses live near the mountains in the east and Memphis is on the Mississippi. Other than that, I can never remember where Nashville is other than it's farther from the Duggars than Big Sandy.

Back to Amy, I don' think she's that conservative, but when raised in a Conservative mainstream Christian household (and she doesn't appear to have moved out of her parents' home yet), you know where the lines are and respect them. I'd forgotten Jill made a "she's not like us, but we accept her anyway" remark similar to Smug Jr's. Gee, thanks. Then again, do you think any of the Duggar clan saw her majorly NIKE! Halloween costume? J&A are on Facebook; wonder what smug pronouncements they made when they saw her grinding and sitting on the lap of the equally NIKE! (but hilarious) Reno 911 guy?

Enywho, to conclude, I wonder if TLC airing these Bates episodes today is indicative of something special coming out soon since we know they were there for the last two weeks? One thing to consider, OTOH, was that Sean asked Erin about possible courting with the Duggars and she acknowledged there could be, but they hadn't seen each other in 7 years and they would have to pray. J&A took about 2 years to become engaged; the Bateses were reintroduced face to face with the Duggars early in the summer of 2008. I'd love an announcement, but I wonder about communications, especially since the Bateses don't (or didn't before the home remodel, it may be wired in every room now for all we know) have much access to the interenet, except for Kelly and the girls at the library.
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#24548

Shae24

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 5:42 PM

The Duggars are trying to avoid situations that have the potential to lead to temptations.


Which is all fine and dandy, but I'm pretty sure Michelle and Jim Bob went on dates without being chaperoned. It's just another way they don't let their kids make the same choices they themselves made. Do they *really* believe that what they did as teenagers was so sinful that it affects them today? Their marriage appears to be happy, and Jim Bob seems to really love Michelle, so why wouldn't they hope for their kids to find the same happiness the way they did?
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#24549

tonkacat

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 6:32 PM

Maybe the Nashville conference used to be the "biggie?" Even so, isn't Nashville west of the Bateses' homestead in the first place (ie. they'd still have to travel out of their way to visit)? All I know about TN is that the Bateses live near the mountains in the east and Memphis is on the Mississippi.


Lake City (where the Bates live) is closer to Knoxville. It's a tiny town on Hwy 27. I'm sure it's out of the Duggars way to visit.
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#24550

PlathsDaddy

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 7:07 PM

tonkacat that's what I thought I remembered, which makes JimBoob's statement about going to visit them before ATI conferences (in Texas) all the more strange.

I forgot which Bates episode Boob made the statement that homeschooled kids met more kids, even those "from all over the world" than non-homeschooled kids. I know he grew up in a friggin backwater, but I guess they never heard of exchange students who attend public schools with those deprived, publicly-educated kids, or of families who travel, albeit limited to the summer months. Jeebus, I'm a peer of Boob and Uber and although I never traveled outside of the US, I met kids from all over the world, many of whom were immigrants or the children of immigrants, at my *gasp* public school. The smugness that emanates from many of them does less to convert me to any of their beliefs than a more modest attitude might.
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#24551

chicagomom

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 9:13 PM

The Duggars and Bates went on a field trip together to Haley Farm in Clinton, TN. Report and video interviews:

http://www.wbir.com/...y...9&catid=141
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#24552

MeggoMyEggo

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 9:24 PM

I wish the Bates fam would give the duggars some singing lessons. Everytime Ive heard the Bates crew singing they sound fantastic, with harmonies and everything. But when the Duggars sing (or play violin for that matter) it makes me want to cringe and cover my ears.
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#24553

chicagomom

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 9:33 PM

Erin could have toned down the piano during the reporter's singing on the farm video. It was like she was giving a concert, not accompanying someone singing.
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#24554

misspenny550

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:10 PM

Well Meggo, perhaps J-chelle, the trainer is TONE DEAF!
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#24555

markie

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

Michelle Duggar said. "The beautiful gates we came through and there were Canadian geese greeting us at this gorgeous pond."


I do believe the correct plural term would be "Canada Geese" not "Canadian Geese."
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#24556

Pennybrooke

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:20 PM

Funny idea, but we've heard Michelle sing and she's not tone deaf - we would know that straightaway. I was laughing out loud at Erin's extravagant accompaniment, but she kept her eyes on the singer the whole time and stayed right with her, which is more than many accompanists I've seen.

I must be blind, but I was keeping an eye peeled for the newest Bates baby and I didn't see her. Maybe I was missing something, or maybe it's weird not to see a set of baby legs poking out from under the Brest friend tent...?
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#24557

markie

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:22 PM

I thought I saw an older Bates girl (not Erin) holding an infant when at the end of the clip when the Bates family were singing.

Edited by markie, Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:30 PM.

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#24558

momofa6pack

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:30 PM

I must be blind, but I was keeping an eye peeled for the newest Bates baby and I didn't see her. Maybe I was missing something, or maybe it's weird not to see a set of baby legs poking out from under the Brest friend tent...?

I thought I saw Erin holding an infant when at the end of the clip when the Bates family were singing.


I don't know about the videos but in the Bates group picture, if you look really closely one of the older girls near the middle looks to have a little infant face peeking out near her shoulder. I think the baby is either in a sling or wrapped in a blanket because I can't pick out a body, just her face.
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#24559

RachieLnnn81

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:32 PM

I tried to see if any older Duggars and Bates that could be, ahem, a match, were standing near eachother, but no luck. The older kids are SOOOOO segregated by gender.

When JD (I think?) is pushing the stoller, it looks like some older Bates girls might be lingering a bit towards to back, maybe to catch his eye. ;)

On a sad note, it is really apparent once again who is the mother of Jennie. Jill is clearly cutting up her food.

P.S. It's nice that Gil will let Kathy talk - he kind of starts talking before she's finished her thought at one point, but just smiles and lets her continue.

P.P.S. When J'ichelle and Sponge were talking about "Having the biggest families, COMING TOGETHER for this occasion." Do you think it means anything? Michelle kind of smiled secretively!
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#24560

Pennybrooke

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:54 PM

I double-checked at the end of the video and you're right, there was an infant in the singing section at the end - I think that was Michaela holding her, though, not Erin. And Tori is looking way more like Erin now too - she's shooting up in height.

I tend to tune JB and Michelle out, so now I'm going to have to watch AGAIN to see if they're hinting at anything.

I did have a thought today, though: I wonder if Sean is driving the Idle Speculation Bus as much as any of us. When you think about it, the production crew has to sort of guess at the future - they have to try to be ready to catch moments that are interesting, or moments that will prove to be interesting in retrospect. So you take the Duggars and Bates, who are all about courting, and Erin is talented, attractive and a potential age match for one or more Duggar boys - it might make sense to get some footage of her just in case.

However, I'm still hoping I'm wrong and that JD or Jana are about to get out of the house.

Other things I noticed:

I didn't see Jana at all, though I will go back and look again.

The older Bates girls don't seem to sit with the older Duggar girls, unless, again, I'm missing something.

Edited by Pennybrooke, Nov 16, 2009 @ 10:55 PM.

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#24561

LazyLazy

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 11:14 PM

Yep, Michaela's holding a baby. I wonder if the Bates clan also does some sort of buddy system? Or maybe Michaela just likes cuddling baybees. Kelly looks like she somehow hasn't quite recovered from having the last one yet.
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#24562

PlathsDaddy

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 11:22 PM

I thought I saw an older Bates girl (not Erin) holding an infant when at the end of the clip when the Bates family were singing.


Saw that as well. There were 3 Bates daughters next to each other, but I couldn't tell which one was holding the baby (either Mickaleh - spelling confirmed today - pronounced Mike-uh-luh with emphasis on the first syllable - or the sister who is between Erin and Tori whose name I've forgotten...she'd be about 15ish. I'm on a notebook so my full screen is too small to tell for sure). I wonder if Kelly Bates isn't breastfeeding at all or just doesn't walk around with a donut around her all day; her jumper did have buckles for easy access out, but she was never seen holding the baby, unlike Michelle's utter addiction to her infants.

Boob is totally angling for the Bateses to get a show, either with them or their own: "The two biggest families in America..." blah blah blah. The Bateses seem to be nice enough, but one Quiverfull family with 10000 kids is enough. Thanks in advance, Sean.
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#24563

LazyLazy

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Posted Nov 16, 2009 @ 11:42 PM

Confirmed how? In this article (http://www.wbir.com/...x?storyid=45073) it's Michaela. Not sure about the pronunciation.

I think the one between Erin and Tori is called Alyssa, if the names are arranged by age in the article.

I kind of feel sorry for Michaela. She's the only chubby one in that family, and Erin's the real beauty, and the one with the obvious talent. Michaela always seems to be in the back of group photos. I know she's the oldest, and the tallest, and maybe a little shy, but maybe she's kind of trying to hide, too. I get like that when I'm feeling self-conscious about my appearance.

Edited by LazyLazy, Nov 16, 2009 @ 11:49 PM.

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#24564

PlathsDaddy

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 1:06 AM

Confirmed how? In this article (http://www.wbir.com/...x?storyid=45073) it's Michaela. Not sure about the pronunciation.


From the episode today. Her name was noted on-screen and pronounced by both herself (in a kid intro) and later by Gil. Of course, Sean has made mistakes before; I too always thought it was the more conventional spelling, but I knew the pronunciation was a little different, just couldn't remember how until I heard it again today. I didn't like it. Frankly. It's not very feminine sounding at all, but the spelling, if correct, is more in line with the slew of Rebekahs (including Anna's sister), etc. that I've seen reading other QF literature/blogs and would actually make sense, although I hope her name is spelled conventionally for her sake. The spelling I saw and posted is just....strange. I can't even take their accent into account since they stressed the first syllable rather than the second.

Weird that her sisters got such normal names. Hopping in the driver's seat of the ISB, I still think Mickaleh/Michaela/whatever is best suited for JD and that may be our blushing young man's secret. I think their quieter, but hard working behind the scenes personalities are well-suited.
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#24565

TikiGirl

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 1:20 AM

Why I waste my time thinking about these madly breeding half-wits, I don't know, but...I was thinking about the ridiculous fucking side-hug they always do. With everyone. Including relatives, and including same-sex. So do none of these kids get any real, good, full hugs after they're out of that stupid breast-feeding thing? It really can't be good for (especially small) children to not get that kind of comforting physical contact. The whole situation seems beyond bizarre to me.
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#24566

momofa6pack

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 2:09 AM

I wonder if Kelly Bates isn't breastfeeding at all or just doesn't walk around with a donut around her all day; her jumper did have buckles for easy access out, but she was never seen holding the baby, unlike Michelle's utter addiction to her infants.


I did not watch the videos yet so this is more assumption on my part than anything else...IMO, Kelly (and the Bates in general) has the "modesty" thing down better than the Duggars. I'm guessing the videos weren't full episode length so probably a good portion of "the day" was not filmed. A 3ish month old baby does not need to be fed as often as a newborn. So my conclusion is that Kelly very well may be breastfeeding but chose not to do so on camera. Either she excused herself to nurse or they simply took a break from filming...either way no evidence of it would show up in a video. I think Michelle uses her crazy contraption as a way to make it more obvious that she has a baby hanging off her as if that alone makes her look like a super mom...not very modest. As an experienced breasteeding mom, I can honestly say that the less effort a mom makes to "cover up", the less noticeable it is....I tried the whole draping the blanket across me thing and people would stare, I dressed in layers allowing me to nurse with no blanket or exposure and I would have to stop people from coming right up to coo at the baby because they really had no idea I was nursing from even just a few feet away. Michelle loves attention and look how many of us discuss her brest friend....Kelly seems to actually be somewhat modest and we have no idea how she feeds her baby, as it should be.
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#24567

Hannie

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 2:40 AM

Oh my goodness... I was just watching an older episode on youtube (I don't think that I should say which one though??) and had to pause it for a moment. Through sheer dumb luck, the screen had stopped on a form that was being filled out by a Duggar and actually showed their home phone number. Just watching the video on play though, it's not noticeable - but still, I'm surprised that slipped through. Breach of privacy much?
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#24568

MeggoMyEggo

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 3:06 AM

Well, you would think that that would be a big slip up and a big problem. However, the Duggars have their home address and phone number listed on their website. Members of this forum have called them up, and driven by their home in fact. Apparently they arent too concerned with privacy.
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#24569

Hannie

Hannie

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 3:24 AM

Actually, the address listed on the Duggar family website isn't their home address, it's for Champion Motorcars.

http://www.duggarfam.../contactus.html
http://www.championn.../contactus.html

And the phone number that was being hand written on the form is not the same one that is listed on the website either. I know it's no big deal... lol - the only reason I mentioned it at all was because I was surprised!
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#24570

MeggoMyEggo

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Posted Nov 17, 2009 @ 4:18 AM

Has anyone called the number listed on the website recently? I remember a while ago people calling and actually talking to the duggars. Can you still do that? ...crazy
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