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19 Kids and Counting (And Other Duggar Family Programs)


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#45661

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 9:02 PM

Mullet was on a radio show earlier this week and is really walking a thin line with her rhetoric. If you're not paying attention, you'd believe she had a stillbirth: she says the baby was "born still," but then later says she was in the prayer closet and Jana gave her a link to a sermon about mourning a MISCARRIAGE. She also says the fetus was "about 20 weeks" giving the illusion that it had passed the official threshhold for it to be officially on-record. She's a fucking piece of work.


Why are the Duggars splitting hairs over dates and semantics? It was a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. Why lie about it? I just wonder what their agenda is with this whole thing.
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#45662

Analytica49

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 10:00 PM

One thing that baffles me is how the Dairy Queen and the Boob have managed to so thoroughly brainwash so many kids. I started watching this family back when the second or third special appeared, before Smuggar married Anna. At that time I thought it was just a matter of months before one of the kids would rebel. Like many, I hoped it would be Ginger, but I also thought Josiah and Joyanna had some prospects. Or maybe it would be someone that no one expected to be defiant.

And yet all we see is perfect compliance.

If any of the kids weren't toeing the line, I guess the Boob could arrange to cover it up, but what puzzles me is how he gets every single one of them to parrot the party line. In their talking-heads, and also in that hideous Santorum commercial, every single kid is totally on message. How do they get a whole pile of young adults and teenagers to be so conformist? How do they keep them in line? I think the Duggar parents are more successful than schools, prisons, or the military in inducing obedience.

I know, I know: The kids have been hearing the Gothardist message from birth (or maybe even before: Perhaps the Boob whispers right-wing, fundamentalist, misogynist slogans to the Dairy Queen's pregnant belly). And they do lead a sheltered life. And their exposure to other ideas and ways of life is minimal.

But still--perfect conformity?? It defies probability that not one of the first twelve kids (down to Jason, if I've counted correctly) has ever verbalized (at least on camera) any significant deviation from the Duggar ideology.

Edited by Analytica49, Mar 22, 2012 @ 10:02 PM.

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#45663

Absolom

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 10:33 PM

She makes herself out to be some awesome Godly woman...when in reality, she's just a shell of a person clinging to some frail ideology as the basis for existence.



I really like that explanation of Michelle as a shell and maybe not even knowing it. With her whole existence being Gothardism. Truly without spouting Gothardism and birthing babies what does she have? Soon it will be Gothard only. Is that enough to sustain anyone?
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#45664

AllisonJenny

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 11:09 PM

But still--perfect conformity?? It defies probability that not one of the first twelve kids (down to Jason, if I've counted correctly) has ever verbalized (at least on camera) any significant deviation from the Duggar ideology.


The older girls did a radio interview after going to that "camp" Journey To The Heart. They basically said the camp taught them to stop being one way around family and another around friends, plus they became at peace about anger at their family + stopped being disrespectful. So yeah, they basically got guilt tripped into thinking "I really should ignore the alarm bells in my head. My parents and the fake camp counselors know what God wants me to do." Shades of Stockholm syndrome.

I hope that one day when Jim Bob and Michelle are out of town, all the over 18s drop the younger kids off with a trusted adult and then hightail themselves out of town.

Edited by AllisonJenny, Mar 22, 2012 @ 11:11 PM.

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#45665

Lopethina

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 11:16 PM

But still--perfect conformity?? It defies probability that not one of the first twelve kids (down to Jason, if I've counted correctly) has ever verbalized (at least on camera) any significant deviation from the Duggar ideology.

Isn't everything vetted by Jim Bob before it airs? I thought he had a heavy hand in what was permissible to show. (Which makes the snarky moments all the more delicious.) But maybe I'm wrong.
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#45666

Pauline Fowler

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 11:17 PM

The kids are trained in obedience. That means you toe the party line in public because you are a cog in Daddy's money making machine. They may have traveled, but it's so sheltered; what have they really SEEN that hasn't been manufactured? And yeah, I'm including the trips to Central America. It's all scripted by Gothard or the other mission that they work with in Central America.

As for the Santorum video, Smuggar apparently wrote all the standard RNC talking points. Or not. Most of the reasons to vote for Sanitarium were "he loves Bella!" etc. What does an 8 year old know about appointing pro-life judges?

Why are the Duggars splitting hairs over dates and semantics? It was a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. Why lie about it? I just wonder what their agenda is with this whole thing.


A stillbirth carries more weight than a "mere" miscarriage, no matter how late it happened. If Mullet says it's a stillbirth enough, she and (she hopes) gullible people who are too lazy to look up the truth - that does define their core fanbase - will feel more sorry for her. It also helps legitimize the funeral circus.

Edited by Pauline Fowler, Mar 22, 2012 @ 11:20 PM.

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#45667

AllisonJenny

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 12:26 AM

Mullet was on a radio show earlier this week and is really walking a thin line with her rhetoric. If you're not paying attention, you'd believe she had a stillbirth: she says the baby was "born still," but then later says she was in the prayer closet and Jana gave her a link to a sermon about mourning a MISCARRIAGE. She also says the fetus was "about 20 weeks" giving the illusion that it had passed the official threshhold for it to be officially on-record. She's a fucking piece of work.


Why are the Duggars splitting hairs over dates and semantics? It was a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. Why lie about it? I just wonder what their agenda is with this whole thing.


I noticed that on the Duggars' website there's a piece called The Importance of Grieving After a Miscarriage("It helps my heart to talk about my miscarriage of Jubilee...")+ a sticky note saying she was 19 weeks. So I expect those will magically get changed to "20 weeks" and "stillbirth" at some point, to match up with their stories

Bizarrely, Michelle has a story up about taking the kids to piano lesson at 7 am (!). Apparently the piano teacher felt so bad for poor tired Michelle (eyeroll) that she now does the Duggars' laundry twice a week. For the past 12 years. I thought the Duggars could never get their butts out of bed on time "because we're not morning people" ?

I really like that explanation of Michelle as a shell and maybe not even knowing it. With her whole existence being Gothardism. Truly without spouting Gothardism and birthing babies what does she have? Soon it will be Gothard only. Is that enough to sustain anyone?


Jim Bob said years ago he doesn't have a hobby because "our family is our hobby." So I'm sure Michelle tells herself that ad nauseum and doesn't let herself think about it beyond "Jim Bob is wise. We can do speaking tours and books on this topic forever. That's totally a hobby, right, self ? "

Edited by AllisonJenny, Mar 23, 2012 @ 12:44 AM.

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#45668

lillybee

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 4:15 AM

I was bothered by Boob saying that he was used to the girls getting the boys dressed and groomed. Boys 7 and older should be capable of taking care of themselves. Is there a reason for making the males so dependent on the women folk for things that they could do themselves?
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#45669

Absolom

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 10:21 AM

Jim Bob is not a producer of the show I don't think so has no say in the final edit. I think he may have reserved some rights on what is filmed. I've never seen a camera follow a child into a bathroom like on other TLC shows.

I've often wondered if the kids learned to simply hide their true feelings and polly parrot what Jim Bob and Michelle say. I'm pretty sure that there is some simmering resentment among the kids that they've learned is much better to not express. I've long thought that John David was the master of thinking his own thoughts and keeping his mouth shut. I'd like to hear some conversations between John David and Joseph as they are off on their own running the tow truck business.
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#45670

ljohnson2006

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 10:31 AM

"Jim Bob is not a producer of the show I don't think so has no say in the final edit. I think he may have reserved some rights on what is filmed. I've never seen a camera follow a child into a bathroom like on other TLC shows."

That's true, Absolom, but they did follow Anna into the bathroom when she gave birth. Who wants to take bets that they're going to use the VSE to announce GrandDuggar number three? They'll talk about losing Jubilee and then having a new grandchild making everything come full circle. I hope that TLC shows some respect with episodes that tackle sensitive issues in the future. They've pretty much failed at it up to this point.
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#45671

ljohnson2006

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 10:32 AM

"Jim Bob is not a producer of the show I don't think so has no say in the final edit. I think he may have reserved some rights on what is filmed. I've never seen a camera follow a child into a bathroom like on other TLC shows."

That's true, Absolom, but they did follow Anna into the bathroom when she gave birth. Who wants to take bets that they're going to use the VSE to announce GrandDuggar number three? They'll talk about losing Jubilee and then having a new grandchild making everything come full circle. I hope that TLC shows some respect with episodes that tackle sensitive issues in the future. They've pretty much failed at it up to this point.
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#45672

ljohnson2006

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 10:33 AM

"Jim Bob is not a producer of the show I don't think so has no say in the final edit. I think he may have reserved some rights on what is filmed. I've never seen a camera follow a child into a bathroom like on other TLC shows."

That's true, Absolom, but they did follow Anna into the bathroom when she gave birth. Who wants to take bets that they're going to use the VSE to announce GrandDuggar number three? They'll talk about losing Jubilee and then having a new grandchild making everything come full circle. I hope that TLC shows some respect with episodes that tackle sensitive issues in the future. They've pretty much failed at it up to this point.
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#45673

Absolom

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 10:45 AM

...but they did follow Anna into the bathroom when she gave birth


That is very true and goes back to my belief that the Duggars do not know what classy is. Anna, however, is not a child and is at least legally an adult and could withhold her consent. That she seems brainwashed into thinking this is somehow a good thing to be filmed by men not her husband while giving birth baffles me. That she sees no contradiction in professing modesty and then is filmed giving birth on the toilet by men who then have to blur the imagine goes way beyond what would be acceptable in my life. I don't profess huge standards of modesty to one and all and yet no photos or filming of any kind was acceptable to me for birthing and I even ejected extra nurses and the pediatrician from the room. Josh seems to be quite the braggart and famewhore and he is Anna's umbrella of protection so it looks to me like she is left standing out in the rain.

Edited by Absolom, Mar 23, 2012 @ 1:08 PM.

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#45674

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 11:16 AM

They basically said the camp taught them to stop being one way around family and another around friends, plus they became at peace about anger at their family + stopped being disrespectful. So yeah, they basically got guilt tripped into thinking "I really should ignore the alarm bells in my head. My parents and the fake camp counselors know what God wants me to do." Shades of Stockholm syndrome.


Wow, I didn't know they publicly admitted to having anger and resentment towards their family. It explains the major shift in attitude we've seen from Jana and Jessa over the last few seasons. I think Jill and Jinger are morons, but I believe the other two know that their parents are exploiting them and I can't imagine how frustrating that must be.

I honestly think Josiah will be the first to break away. He's already on his parents' shit list so he has nothing to lose.

Regarding Anna and the camera crew, who knows, maybe she's a closet freak and gets off on that kind of thing. Can you imagine having sex with Joshie's doughboy ass every night? I'd rather turn tricks at a homeless shelter.
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#45675

essinad

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 11:38 AM

Easy there. It's lunch time.

Speaking of Josh, has this video been discussed here?: Enjoy!
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#45676

may2

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 12:07 PM

Holy Mother of God just when you think it can't get worse Josh sings and he doesn't know the words.
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#45677

Batman Beatles

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 12:30 PM

The kids are trained in obedience. That means you toe the party line in public because you are a cog in Daddy's money making machine.

In other words, they must "keep sweet".
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#45678

burbankbaby

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 1:45 PM

The famous video of doughboy looking at his phone while he sang. Jinger looks like she ould rather be anywhere else.
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#45679

brewerrkj

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 2:18 PM

Easy there. It's lunch time. Speaking of Josh, has this video been discussed here?: Enjoy!


I only have one thing to say about that video . . . AAAK!
Does Boob really think he'll get anyone to vote for Santorum?
After listening to that numbskull blather away, most people who might've had some mild interest in Santorum will likely stampede to vote for Romney now. Do they think they're helping?
Michelle, can't stop the god-damn adoring fawning looking at Jim-Bob even when she's stumping for Rick!
It made me want to lose my lunch, but I'd bet anything that since it was filmed at a Chick-Fil-A's, Smuggar was stuffing his fat face with gratis food as soon as he could!

Edited by brewerrkj, Mar 23, 2012 @ 2:23 PM.

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#45680

Analytica49

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 2:56 PM

Isn't everything vetted by Jim Bob before it airs? I thought he had a heavy hand in what was permissible to show. (Which makes the snarky moments all the more delicious.) But maybe I'm wrong.


Lopethina, I think you're right about this. At the same time, the editors must have a strong voice, or they wouldn't show things like Josie getting knocked over by a door, Hannie with her finger up her nose, Michelle filming her own son while injured, etc. Jim-Boob's control over what's shown is definitely not 100%

But even if he has a lot of control over what's shown, it still doesn't explain how Jim-Boob gets the kids to say almost exactly the right thing, in line with the cult's ideology. I work with young people, and I have some idea how hard it is to get teens and early-twenties to say things they don't want to say.

So, I have to assume the "kids" are all brainwashed. They really believe what they say. It's true all of us here on TWOP look for the slight snarkiness, the minor deviations. But to me, it's still amazing that there aren't more. The cult of Gothard, as exemplified by J'chelle and her charming husband, is the most effective brainwashing machine I've ever had the misfortune to witness.

Speaking of Josh, has this video been discussed here?: Enjoy!


That was hideous. I bet Smuggar thinks he's a good a singer. Just as he thinks that anything he does is good. You don't need training, you don't need voice lessons, you don't need to learn how to develop your singing; nope; as long as you're a Duggar, you can do anything.

No wonder they don't believe in education. All the reinforcement they get tells them that they are excellent without it.

If that crowd gave that musical performance the reaction it deserved, Smuggar and his sibs might actually learn that they aren't perfect in every way.
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#45681

Sugakates78

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 3:12 PM

While we're talking modesty (or lack thereof), anyone else nervous about exactly how much they are going to show of the miscarriage? I know we're going to be "treated" to the ultrasound, breaking the news to the kids, and funeral circus. But surely they won't show Michelle delivering the fetus, right? And how much are they going to show of Jubilee? We know they obviously had a photo shoot, hence the pics that were shown at the memorial, but please tell me all we'll see is what's in the pics (her hands & feet).
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#45682

hippobean

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 3:32 PM

Definitely not an episode that I will be watching; their exploiting their living children is one thing, but parading the death of poor little Jubilee around in their circus is just too much. Of course, grieve, take the pictures, have the funeral, but do it privately, she was a little girl, not a means for ratings or attention for the pathetic excuse the poor thing had as parents, even for a short time, and in utero. For goodness sake can't these people have enough respect for their deceased little girl than to do this? The fame-whoring obviously knows no limits,which is simply disgusting (imo).

Edited by hippobean, Mar 23, 2012 @ 3:33 PM.

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#45683

NJRach

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 3:37 PM

Another headshot of Anna has appeared on Josh's Instagram account. Hmmmmm. We need to find someone at the rally to get a photo of Anna and her expanding mid-section to bust their cover.

Edited by NJRach, Mar 23, 2012 @ 3:38 PM.

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#45684

NoPity1066

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 4:02 PM

Sorry, much trouble posting. Text translating as code. SkyNet is winning. Will report to site.

Edited by NoPity1066, Mar 23, 2012 @ 4:11 PM.

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#45685

Pauline Fowler

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 4:21 PM

Another headshot of Anna has appeared on Josh's Instagram account. Hmmmmm. We need to find someone at the rally to get a photo of Anna and her expanding mid-section to bust their cover.


Definitely taken by a family member. It's been reported that she's been seen at rallies wearing multiple layers and that same denim jacket, even on days when one shirt would have done just fine. I posited elsewhere that they're going to use her pregnancy as the bridge from Jubilee's non-life to the hope of a new life with Anna's, which has to be at least 5 months gone, if not more, at this point.

The only hope that she won't pop out 10 kids in 10 years and be living in van by the river after the show's revenue stream runs dry is that Smuggar gets so fat that he won't be able to...errr....perform. I think it's obvious with all the social media, etc. that Smuggar is angling for his own show, but we also know Sean and others monitor these boards and should know that Smug's Q-rating is in negative numbers and Anna is almost as repellent these days.
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#45686

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 4:49 PM

That video is too funny. Nothing says big time like a musical performance in a fast food joint with a Playland in the background. Can you say tres klassy?

I can't believe how big Josh looked in that video. He's gained at least fifty pounds in the last year.
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#45687

AllisonJenny

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 6:07 PM

Easy there. It's lunch time.

Speaking of Josh, has this video been discussed here?: Enjoy!


It's the stuff Mad TV skits are made of, between the bad singing, the poorly spelled sign ("I LOVE THE DUGGAR'S"), the toddler's angry golf clap and Michelle's clip on vacation weave. All that's missing is Bobby Lee in the playplace tunnel making faces behind Josh.
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#45688

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 6:55 PM

But still--perfect conformity?? It defies probability that not one of the first twelve kids (down to Jason, if I've counted correctly) has ever verbalized (at least on camera) any significant deviation from the Duggar ideology.


The perfect conformity seems to be mostly among the kids that JB and Michelle actually bothered to raise themselves (Josh through Joseph). Josiah and Joy were are the last kids JB and Michelle seem to know anything about, but it seems that after having Jed/Jer and Jason in such short order, she basically gave up trying to be an active mother. Trying to understand the Duggar kids is a bit like Kremlinology in that you use the smallest clues to figure out the big picture. It's hard to really tell what any of them may actually be thinking. I do think that as the younger kids get older and the TLC money and the speaking engagement evaporate, it will be difficult to keep them all so conformist.

Add me to the people who won't be watching the Jubilee fiasco. I can understand having a funeral for a fetus, especially at the 19 week mark when human characteristics have set in, but not televising it and exploiting it for political gain. I can only imagine what would happen if one of the currently living children were to die (given the Duggars' notorious disregard for safety, I'm surprised that nobody has been killed).
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#45689

HandsFullMama

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 7:08 PM

The rally was held at a Chick-Fil-A? Where's the photo of Josh and the nugget tray? "Okay guys, this is my plate. What are y'all going to eat?"

I'm surprised that they sang This Land Is Your Land. Isn't that song ALL about tolerance????

If Anna really is pregnant, there will be a Today Show announcement on Tuesday morning. They are not going to drop a pregnancy bomb on us in the season finale. They announce everything on the Today Show. It's totally their thing.

So, I, for one will be watching the Today Show on Tuesday morning in anticipation of such an announcement because she is sooooooooo pregnant!
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#45690

HandsFullMama

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Posted Mar 23, 2012 @ 7:20 PM

Whoops, double post!

Edited by HandsFullMama, Mar 23, 2012 @ 7:22 PM.

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