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19 Kids and Counting (And Other Duggar Family Programs)


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#45571

burbankbaby

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 12:06 AM

Another possible source of funds would be the Gothard movement. After all a friend in the White House would be a good thing to have and supplying their version of stars might just help.


The Duggars in the White House? No thanks.
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#45572

commanderclue

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 12:49 AM

Despite Santorum's conservative views, it is difficult to imagine he believes the endorsment of the Duggar family helps his political postition, even if he expects to lose the nomination for the republican party while building a solid uber-conservative base in the south.

I think that most of us know that sane people do not have 19 children and still try for more. Just the thought of 14 plus years of pregnancy makes me cross my legs and swear off sex! *shudder*

I do not know one person who has a high opinion of the Duggar family. Just mentioning them brings snorts of disgust and comments about the freak show they are if friends and collegues know who I am talking about! I would love to know how many fans they really have.
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#45573

Hannah Leah

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 1:24 AM

I heard Rick is against woman having ultrasounds(maybe, thats just to see if there is a issue). However, ultrasounds detect twins, can see issues that can be fixed with a birth plan.
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#45574

gadgetgirlusa

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:28 AM

Santorum is against prenatal care, because he thinks it leads to more abortions. I suppose ultrasounds would be part of that equation. What he and those of his ilk don't understand is how prenatal care helps ensure that the lives of the baby and mother are protected.

I doubt Santorum is sponsoring the Duggars following him around the campaign trail. I can see Jim Bob finding a loophole for next year's tax write-offs.
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#45575

Willowsmom

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 10:29 AM

I can see Jim Bob finding a loophole for next year's tax write-offs.

There are no loop holes for this one.
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#45576

auntie thesis

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 10:54 AM

I can't help but wonder who is bankrolling the magic bus and the numerous road trips to the Santorum rallies. TLC? Santorum? Or Jim Bob? The travelling has to be costing a fortune. Just a week-long trip for my family of 5 to see some friends down south was over a grand. Now if you multiply that by 5 times the amount of people, times about 8 weeks on the road this year plus a big, honking, gas-guzzling bus you are talking like what, fifteen thousand? Anyone want to wager a guess?


Well, according to Duggar lore, it is actually cheaper for the family to travel en masse than it is for the average family of 5. You see, there is magical math involved with super-mega-fundie families and only those who follow Gothard know how to do it. It involves rotating the KJV Bible at certain angles at a certain time of day and then letting the reflection of the head of household to bounce off the front cover. Then the head of household flips to a random page, multiplies the number by 20, subtracts some obscure tax writes offs, adds the cost of two bulk cases of Aquanet, and dusts off his favorite Gothard approved credit card...Off they go, happy as clams on a sticky, stinky bus o' doom, led by fearless leader Jim Dong Boob....

Then when the credit card bill comes in, you pull the money you saved from not paying your adult kids for their time and effort that the put into running your household to pay them. It works 99% of them time, every time...right?

In all seriousness, I think these trips are an effing farce and I wish that someone, anyone, would call the labor board and CPS...and report these sad fundie carnie hucksters.
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#45577

BitTooFairyTale

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 10:58 AM

Unless the internet is trolling me (which I don't think it is, because I've found the same story on several dozen sites), Santorum is also against women using tampons because they "promote sexual behavior".

Man, my oldest niece is 3 and speaks more clearly (and with a much larger vocabulary) than the 4 or 5 youngest Duggars. How old are they now? I understand Josie being that verbally behind, but the others?

Also, listening to the kids talk up Santorum really just made me wonder how much they actually know about politics. One mentioned the constitution and looked to be around the age that I was when we memorized the preamble in public school. What are the odds the kids even know what the constitution is?
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#45578

essinad

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 11:00 AM

Obviously, they are buying the fuel and plane tickets used and saving the difference. Duh.
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#45579

GeoBQn

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 11:18 AM

Well, according to Duggar lore, it is actually cheaper for the family to travel en masse than it is for the average family of 5.

Like when JimBob was complaining about how expensive it was for the whole family to travel by subway in NYC?
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#45580

Cary

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 11:51 AM

I saw the YouTube of the 19 Reasons... and I thought the kid with the worst speech was Mackynzie (sp?)....how old is she now? She must be around two, I would guess, and she is just not understandable at all! I've noticed that on the show, too, but this is more recent, and no improvement. Cute kid, though...

I have noticed that Anna is doing the 'adoring stare' to Josh when he speaks that Michelle and Kelly Bates both do to their men.....gag.
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#45581

auntie thesis

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

Like when JimBob was complaining about how expensive it was for the whole family to travel by subway in NYC?


Bwhaha...I remember that episode. Apparently, magic Gothard math doesn't take the actual costs of public transportation into consideration when calculating the costs of a trip. It assumes that the fearless family leader controls all costs by buying everything used and saving the difference.

And I do think that they write off the costs of gas on their taxes, probably under the auspices of their supposed ministry or under education expenses or some other such bs. Hell, I can barely afford to drive around town and most of the truckers I know are barely making it these days due to the high costs of fuel...there's no way Jim Boob can afford to all that superfluous driving to nowhere on his own dime. Well, maybe he can but I don't see him being willing to pay for it all himself.

Unless the internet is trolling me (which I don't think it is, because I've found the same story on several dozen sites), Santorum is also against women using tampons because they "promote sexual behavior".


Don't you know that tampons are the devil's evil cotton fingers? They can break a lady's hymen, rendering her sexually impure for life. Oh the horror!

Man, my oldest niece is 3 and speaks more clearly (and with a much larger vocabulary) than the 4 or 5 youngest Duggars. How old are they now? I understand Josie being that verbally behind, but the others?


I think that the younger Duggars have speech issues due to not having much interaction with other kids or even adults. When a child grows up in a limited environment and has little or no exposure to outside speakers of their native language, the limitation will reenforce wrong speech patterns. An example of this would be the Dilley sextuplets. Some of the boys had speech delays and consistently mispronounced certain words. Since the 6 of them were together 24/7 from the ages of birth-6, they all picked up on the speech issues of their brothers. They all mispronounced the word "girl" as "gull" and there were some other anomalies there as well.

In the case of the Duggars, it would be a fair assessment to say that they don't get much interaction with anyone other than that their age-mate siblings (ie Howlers with Howlers, Little Ones with Little Ones, Older Boys with Older Boys, etc.) So they probably lag behind because no adults talk to them or make an effort to correct their mistakes. That's my two cents anyway.
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#45582

NoPity1066

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 1:24 PM

I think that the younger Duggars have speech issues due to not having much interaction with other kids or even adults. When a child grows up in a limited environment and has little or no exposure to outside speakers of their native language, the limitation will reenforce wrong speech patterns.


Spot on, auntie thesis, can I add to this ?

I'm certainly not a fan of letting kids watch TV 24/7, but while growing up Public Television had a huge impact on me - Sesame Street, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, The Electric Company, etc - and a lot of the early language skills I developed came from them. I actually remember sitting with my parents as we all watched and mom and dad asking "What does Oscar say ? What color is Big Bird?" and on and on. But they also interacted with me constantly, something you rarely see the Duggars do on a meaningful basis. So a total lack of TV (the good kind !) in the children's lives could be viewed as detrimental.

There's the reading factor as well. I was read to from BIRTH, could read pretty proficiently when I was only four, and could hold a reasonable conversation with an adult at age three. But my parents read TO me and then WITH me, not AT me like JB does during Bible time. That's got to be the most impersonal, cold way to "deal" with your children - hold them at arms length while preaching to them like you're the King of Duggerland. And apparently no time for cuddling with the Pokey Little Puppy, either. I don't recall EVER seeing a children's book in that house. Grrr.

Once the kids are no longer "precious flowers", age 4-6 months, and are shipped off the the overburdened buddy, it seems like they're in a social and developmental bubble where they don't receive enough stimulating information in order to learn and grow.

Sure, they hear JB babbling all the time, but it's the very same 4 or 5 speeches over and over - Mama is having another baby, time to pack the bus, time to go as we're late again, etc, etc. It's a wonder they talk at ALL.

Those poor kids are like flower seedlings that never grow because they're denied sunlight and water. Shameful.
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#45583

Analytica49

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 3:40 PM

I've been thinking about the fact that, both after Josie's birth and after the miscarriage, J'chelle has been talking about being willing to "lay down her life for her child". When she says something like that, I think it tugs at people's hearts--of course we'd be willing to sacrifice ourselves for our children!

But in J'chelle's case, she doesn't mean laying down her life for an existing child; she means laying down her life to bring a child into the world. It's as if she thinks there are--what?--twenty, twenty-five, more?--children existing somewhere in limbo, and she is personally responsible for conceiving, gestating, and delivering them. She is willing to lay down her life to bring them into existence.

But children don't pre-exist their own conception; there aren't any little ethereal Duggars out there waiting to be brought into existence. So J'chelle is willing to give up her life without any necessity at all. If she simply chose not to get pregnant, ever again, she would not risk her life--and no child would be harmed. Yet she seems to think she is harming some child, somewhere, by not bringing it into existence.
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#45584

ljohnson2006

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 3:46 PM

If Michelle was willing to lay down and die for her future children, she should think about the 19 that she already has, and what her dying from trying to break some silly record, and beating Kelly Bates is going to do to them. I hope that she doesn't get pregnant again, but I'm sure she will, because she's too stupid to enjoy the family that she has, and be a mom to her kids. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger raise the kids. Michelle just gives birth to them. That doesn't make her a mom.
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#45585

auntie thesis

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 4:11 PM

Once the kids are no longer "precious flowers", age 4-6 months, and are shipped off the the overburdened buddy, it seems like they're in a social and developmental bubble where they don't receive enough stimulating information in order to learn and grow.

Sure, they hear JB babbling all the time, but it's the very same 4 or 5 speeches over and over - Mama is having another baby, time to pack the bus, time to go as we're late again, etc, etc. It's a wonder they talk at ALL.

Those poor kids are like flower seedlings that never grow because they're denied sunlight and water. Shameful.


ITA. It goes hand in hand with the Clown Car's sentiment of "must have baby...OMG...must have baby!!!" They are so concerned with having more kids that they don't really give a crap about the 19 they already have. Sure, babies are wonderful and all, but there is more to life than babyhood. Josie is almost 2 and really, if Jim Boob and Clown Car sat down and looked at their family from a rational outsider perspective, they'd see that they already have more than enough kids. It's time to buckle down and actually raise the ones that are already here.

And while I'm at it, there is more to raising kids than doing cult-like family activities and nightly bible time. Sure, the kids have plenty of freedom. They could be the poster children of the free range kids movement, imo...but unlimited freedom to roam the compound + very little structured schooling and almost no book learning is going to be their detriment, not their advantage. I'm sure they are all adept at entertaining themselves and know quite a bit about kid stuff like riding bikes, playing games and the like, but they know next to nothing about how the world really works. Without the abilities to read fluently, write reasonably well, communicate clearly, and do some basic math, they are going to be very challenged if they ever enter the evil real world. I'd go as far to say that Jed, Jer and Hannie are probably the only ones out of the younger kids that have even a fighting chance of being able to succeed in life after TLC.

Who cares if the boys know how to mow a lawn or fix a flat? Sure, those are good life skills to have...but being able to read fluently and speak coherently are WAY more important in the scheme of things. Someday, those boys are going to have to be able to deal with the evil public, be able to manage their own finances (the lessons on bankruptcy might come in handy then), and do other things that their joke of an education as left them ill-prepared to do. They are not all going to be lucky golden boys like Josh, who is old enough to benefit from TLC's money and to have inherited one of Daddy's car lots. They are not all going to have a towing business or be able to rehab rental properties in northwest Arkansas. It is very likely that they will have to go out and get real jobs that may require more than a fly-by-night CollegeMinus! degree backed up SOTDRT credentials.

I hope that she doesn't get pregnant again, but I'm sure she will, because she's too stupid to enjoy the family that she has, and be a mom to her kids. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger raise the kids. Michelle just gives birth to them. That doesn't make her a mom.


Amen to that. We all know that she will most likely be pregnant again within the next year or so...probably by the time the next season of the show airs.
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#45586

Absolom

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 4:57 PM

For the record, Michelle's fertility is dropping literally every day. She has about 1.6% or less chance of conception and about a 60% miscarriage at her age. At age 46, which Michelle is rapidly approaching, women do conceive occasionally and naturally, but it's very uncommon. It's less than .5% chance I think. Most of the women we hear about who have babies in their late 40s are conceiving through IVF with donor eggs. I know there are the "lottery winners" or losers who have the occasional healthy baby later in life (my mother's cousin did at 47), but that doesn't mean Michelle will join their number. There are far, far more women who never conceive again after 45.
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#45587

ljohnson2006

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 5:17 PM

Michelle and Boob better schedule that IVF consultation if they want blessing number 23, because who knows if she'll be able to get pregnant naturally again?
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#45588

essinad

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 5:24 PM

Since she's still unsure of her stance on fertility drugs *cough*... we might be in for more fetus funerals/babies in heaven.
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#45589

silverspoons

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 6:56 PM

I don't think the bus gas money is considered when it comes to supporting a candidate with similiar views. Everytime I see the episode with the kids using Jimbob's old campaign signs as sleds I think those were some very expensive sleds since Jimbob admits blowing 250k of his own money on his failed campaign. Think of how the family in the 14 kids & 16 kids episodes were smushed into that 3 bed 2 bath homes for 3-4 extra years because Jimbob blew his savings (because of a decision to run based on a coin toss!) instead of using his savings for a larger home.
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#45590

McKay

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:01 PM

Worse then Josh, one of those girls a beautician? (I forgot which one said it.) If one of the girls ended up in beauty school, would she refuse to learn the 'make up application' section. 'I can't do this, most makeup is wicked!' Or, every hair consultation would be for a trim and perm?

That was Jessa - and I don't think these girls have any issue with makeup, since they refuse to be on camera without two inches of the stuff on their faces.
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#45591

Hannah Leah

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:21 PM

He`s against tampons. Gross. There is far bigger issue`s to worry about them sexual feelings tampons may bring.

Birth control is good for families who can`t afford kids or are finished.

Ultrasounds save lives.

What if there no ultrasounds with Josie that could see how her inside. Would she of made it. I think an US is how they found out about the issue.

I hope Josh never runs when he turns 35 or any others.
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#45592

Tony Gancarski

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:21 PM

They're all barely a notch above the family in The Hills Have Eyes.

Even then, that family stopped at four or five.
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#45593

silverspoons

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:30 PM

About the careers, JD said he wanted to be a helicopter pilot. Since that did not happen, one would wonder if he decided against it or he just loves towing cars? It was kind of sad on the last episode at during the arcade birthday party for Hannie/Joy JD was sitting in one of those flight simulator games. I guess his dream was squashed to go save for a family.
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#45594

AuntieTig

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:47 PM

Those kids will have more problems than most people realize if they ever have to go out in the real world. We live in a very diverse culture, most of us don't blink if we work with African-Americans or Asian-Americans, we don't care what religion anyone is unless they start ramming it down our throats, and we take most differences in stride. These children are taught from birth to fear all people that aren't fundamental Christian, I wonder if they even know that their presidential candidate of choice is Catholic? They can learn to read, write, speak, and do mathematics if they wish. However, the basic distrust that has been beaten into their little heads from birth will be far more difficult for them to overcome. What would ever happen if say one of the Howlers suddenly has to go out to work? He gets a job where a woman is his supervisor, and a Gay man is her manager and an African American woman is the Vice President above all of them. It isn't that he wouldn't be able to perform the actual work, but would he be able to work under people that are different from all he has ever known?

And what about his peers? Young men usually talk about what they did over the weekend, would he be able to have a conversation with one of them without passing judgement that said peer is living with his girlfriend out of wedlock? What happens if he goes to a friend from work's BBQ and one of the young women, in spaghetti straps and short shorts is showing off her tattoo? Would he run from the BBQ screaming Nike? And what if said young lady gave him a friendly peck on the cheek? How would he be able to handle a kiss before marriage? No, lack of education will hold them back, but the way they have been brought up to view the world will destroy them. These kids have zero chance of surviving outside of Daddy's house. I have had the personal experience of viewing the terror in a child's eyes when they witness something that they have been taught is "bad" and the aftermath of anger that comes when they realize that all they have been taught is wrong. It isn't pretty, and those poor kids won't have someone to turn to to support them through their learning curve. My heart breaks for them, I just hope that some of what they have seen being with TLC has sunk in that we all aren't the agents of the devil out here.
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#45595

tatortotcassie

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:30 PM

Aaaargh, it's return of J'chelle's crunchy perm! . . . and wispy, limp bangs. What, did she run out of perm solution by the time the rest of the mullet was curled within an inch of its life?

Another focus on Joy? Wow. What's up? Is it that her family thinks she isn't showing quite the correct spirit of humility and so are training her to give proper PR answers, or is TLC trying to tell us Snarkers something?

JB: "they have sleeping bags and bunkbeds so it's just like home." Yes. Right down to the sleeping bags. Ick.

Dear Camera Interviewer: you rock! Way to call out JB on his behavior in the paintballing! Stacking his team with the "biggest, baddest players," pushing Josiah out of the way and causing him to get hit . . . and JB's only comeback was a weak chuckle and an insincere apology. So between this week and last week, my newest favorite person on this show is Mr. Invisible Camera Interviewer. (Second only to Justin, who nailed his dad twice -- well done, Young Howler!)

I'm flabbergasted by the bouquet. I . . . I like it! It's pretty! Yes, it is, as JB put it, "unique" but that's part of why I like it. (Can't quite make up my mind on whether or not the boys picking out flowers for their sisters is sweet or a little weird.)

on a side note, is Arby's part of TLC funding? They didn't specifically promote Arby's in the food stop, but they didn't blur out the trademark hat either. Strange.
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#45596

brewerrkj

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:39 PM

For the record, Michelle's fertility is dropping literally every day. She has about 1.6% or less chance of conception and about a 60% miscarriage at her age. At age 46, which Michelle is rapidly approaching, women do conceive occasionally and naturally, but it's very uncommon. It's less than .5% chance I think. Most of the women we hear about who have babies in their late 40s are conceiving through IVF with donor eggs. I know there are the "lottery winners" or losers who have the occasional healthy baby later in life (my mother's cousin did at 47), but that doesn't mean Michelle will join their number. There are far, far more women who never conceive again after 45.


Yes, but unfortunately for her older daughters, J'Chelle seems to be a super-breeder. If we look at the examples shown on the program of even the usual Gothardite-fundie families, the average child count per seems to be about 8 to 9 blessings before the factory closes down. J'Chelle and Kelly Bates (19 apiece and counting) being the exceptions on the higher side of the average, and let's say the Bluegrasss Reith's (4 kids) being on the lower end of the spectrum. I hope (for her daughter's sakes, really) that Clown Car doesn't get knocked up again, but we all know she'll never stop trying, no matter the consequences to her, the baby or the rest of the family.

Edited by brewerrkj, Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:47 PM.

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#45597

senzasord

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:48 PM

I absolutely loved Dim Bulb being called out on his treatment of Josiah. I also loved the reaction of Josiah, where he basically said "screw this, I'm out." It reminded me of the oddly edited episode where he ran off camera after the announcement of #19. Free Josiah!

The morphing of Joy Anna into an automaton like her older sisters is sad. Jim Bob even acknowledged that after the older kids get married and move out, Joy will have to take on a whole lot of responsibility. Imagine taking care of all those younger brothers? She'll lose her spunkiness in a couple of years under the weight of her "chores."
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#45598

Absolom

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:50 PM

I believe that most of the Gothardites do not try as actively as the Duggar and Bates families to secure "blessings." Some of them may actually use a form of birth control without telling the world about it. Some of them may not wean their infants at six months or may try to avoid certain days instead of trying to do everything possible to achieve that next pregnancy. I truly think Michelle and Kelly have worked every angle they knew to increase their chances of conception and that isn't truly leaving it up to God in my opinion. I think many of the other families are either truly not trying one way or the other or put up a few hindrances that if it's meant can be overcome.
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#45599

jcbrown

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:51 PM

Dear Camera Interviewer: you rock! Way to call out JB on his behavior in the paintballing! Stacking his team with the "biggest, baddest players," pushing Josiah out of the way and causing him to get hit . . . and JB's only comeback was a weak chuckle and an insincere apology.

Even worse--he chuckled and said "I didn't know you caught that on tape." Asshole.

Even though I don't totally approve of a game where you try to kill your family, I did love that Justin was the one who took out Boob.

ETA: "Boys love to compete" and "girls love flowers." Such a sophisticated understanding of gender roles.

Edited by jcbrown, Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:57 PM.

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#45600

Bloody2shoes

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:54 PM

Unless the internet is trolling me (which I don't think it is, because I've found the same story on several dozen sites), Santorum is also against women using tampons because they "promote sexual behavior".


Don't you know that tampons are the devil's evil cotton fingers? They can break a lady's hymen, rendering her sexually impure for life. Oh the horror!


ROFLMAO!!! This is why I love this thread.
I wish Irish politicians were as weird as this Santorum guy. He's so entertaining!
I really am not convinced that tampons are the gateway drug for dick. But I would happily insert a tampon into Rick Santorum's rectum so he can see if it promotes sexual behaviour in him.

As for Jessa wanting to be a beautician when she was younger, how would she cope if someone comes in to the salon for a brazilian wax? I imagine she would faint.
Or would she set up her own fundie salon where the only procedures offered are husband-pleasing makeup application, godly spray tanning, and countenance-enhancing facials?

Edited by Bloody2shoes, Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:55 PM.

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