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19 Kids and Counting (And Other Duggar Family Programs)


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#44641

Lopethina

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:24 AM

I paused the DVR on that handout of Michelle's about how to be a good wife. And OH EM GEE, people -- it said giving in to your husband's sexual demands is the way to avoid abuse.

*jaw drop*
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#44642

experienced

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:50 AM

I saw that Gothard handout too. When do you think Michelle will tell the girls about sexual submission? Do you think that they know about it already from hearing their mother give talks? Did jimbob tell Josh about it or was it in the video and book he gave him during the leggos talk?
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#44643

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:24 AM

I was a bit offended by TLC's attempt to play on the audience with the dr not finding the heartbeat in the promo and then it being a 12 week visit where frequently the heartbeat can't be found by doppler.


That was wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.

I paused the DVR on that handout of Michelle's about how to be a good wife. And OH EM GEE, people -- it said giving in to your husband's sexual demands is the way to avoid abuse.


Please tell me you're joking. So if a woman is in an abusive relationship is it somehow her fault? These people are freaking certifiable.

Last night's epi was painfully boring. It's kind of sad the older Duggar kids don't have enough worldliness to feel like losers at yet another babyish field trip. I was hoping the pony would kick Amy.

I get the vibe that Boob and Michelle are losing control over the household. The kids didn't even pay attention when Boob was calling them for 20 minutes to assemble downstairs. The little ones just seem to be off on their own all the time.

Did anyone notice how they cut Josiah's meltdown from the footage of the very special announcement?
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#44644

NoPity1066

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 4:33 AM

I paused the DVR on that handout of Michelle's about how to be a good wife. And OH EM GEE, people -- it said giving in to your husband's sexual demands is the way to avoid abuse.

Please tell me you're joking. So if a woman is in an abusive relationship is it somehow her fault? These people are freaking certifiable.


Laffytaffy
, i think "certifiable" is a very tactful word for what I would have said, which is "fucknuts". I know they don't advertise their admittedly old-fashioned views like this as they know it would turn their admiring, mainstream sheep-fans away, but I believe they they do really espouse this kind of thing quietly within the Gothard movement.

Thanks to Lopethina for the post - I tried to freeze-frame that part but just couldn't see it. Appreciate your obviously better eagle eyes.

It makes my skin crawl to think that Michelle actually BELIEVES that she's deserving of abuse if she doesn't get down and boogie every time JB says "How you doin' ?" Way to set back the women's rights movement, you big dumb mullet head !

So how about the FINALLY recognized crime of spousal rape being made just fine-and-dandy again ? Women can't own or transfer property ? Have a bank account or credit card without her husband or father's knowledge and consent ?

Good Lord, she's a brainwashed concubine in sheep's clothing.
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#44645

trippedonalego

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 8:26 AM

As my "JOY" act of the day, here's a little transcript of Michelle's handout:

Seven Basic Needs of a Husband

1. A husband needs a wife who respects him as a man.

How does a wife destroy her husband's manliness?

A. By expecting him to know what protection you need
1. Physical
2. Spiritual
3. Mental
4. Emotional
Tell your husband how he can protect you.

B. By being financially independent
1. Love is killed by self-sufficiency (I swear on TTC I'm not making this up)
2. Whoever controls the money controls the leadership.
Center your work and your ministry in your home.

C. By giving greater loyalty to outside leadership
1. Pastor and church leaders
2. Men and women Bible teachers
3. Relatives and friends
Ask your husband your spiritual questions.

D. By resisting his decisions in your spirit
1. A wife's spirit controls her husband's ambitions
2. Reviewing past failure destroys a husband's self-worth.
Learn to wisely appeal to your husband

E. By resisting his physical affection
1. This is the unspoken crushing of a man's spirit.
2. A wife's Godliness is a powerful guard against her husband's abuse of something (the shot cuts off, but it doesn't end at abuse).

That's all I can clearly get. The one about "love is killed by self-sufficiency" just kills me. Way to set the women's movement back 50 years, Michelle.
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#44646

michelecake

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 8:35 AM

So how about the FINALLY recognized crime of spousal rape being made just fine-and-dandy again ? Women can't own or transfer property ? Have a bank account or credit card without her husband or father's knowledge and consent ?

Good Lord, she's a brainwashed concubine in sheep's clothing.


This woman has NINE daughters. And this is what they are learning from their mother. Submit your very personhood to your headship. Sad.
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#44647

khue

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 8:43 AM

I had to laugh at JB "babysitting". The room where they kept the clothes took me back to the days when I only had two small children and they'd get into their shoe closet. I could never keep up with the clothes. Socks just went in a basket-I gave up trying to pair them. I ran a business from my home and hubs worked long hours so everything was on me. On the worst days I longed for a Jana, Jessa, Jinger situation where me and my girls could barrel through the day of feeding, clothing and playing with someone to carefully clean-up and organize the hurricane we left behind. I LOVED little kids, I just couldn't keep up with the crap.

It was a little disconcerting watching TLC's foreshadowing with the no heartbeat ultrasound. I would imagine most people watching this show know the outcome of that pregnancy. Even so, I understood that feeling of being on pins and needles until you see or hear that heartbeat on the screen. My second pregnancy had a rocky start and I can still feel my intense joy and relief when an early ultrasound revealed a tiny, beating white blip on the screen. It does amaze me that even at pregnancy #21, Michelle reacts like this is her very first baby in her awe of it.

The women who attended Michelle's conference seem like foreign souls to me. Maybe I was just born with a cynical bitch heart but for the life of me I can't wrap my mind around being that sweet and docile and perfect. Is one born like that or just conditioned into it?
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#44648

TelevisionMary

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 9:28 AM

Oh thank goodness, this topic has been opened up again. :) I still cannot watch this show, but you guys all mentioning her having all these kids and Jim Bob husband being such a D word... Well get this - she HAS to have all those kids because the Bible says that her husband owns her body and she MUST obey him. ((on the flip side, the husband does not own his body either but he is supposed to be willing to die for her.))

Let that digest a bit, I see Michelle just about dying from all the births, (her having the sick kids too), and I do not see Jim Boob sacrificing anything for his family, he is just the big dick in the family. Literally as well as figuratively! Ha!

But wait, it gets worse! Michelle on the tv the other days says they'd like MORE! She is going to keep having kids till she goes through menopause unless they tinkle with biology and find a way to have more babies after menopause.

Edited by TelevisionMary, Feb 16, 2012 @ 9:30 AM.

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#44649

Christmas Time

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 9:33 AM

I can not wait for next weeks show where a family who has 21 kids adopted and special needs. I want to see how they spin the yarn to that if you are a truly special family then Gotthard approves of what you are doing. Because everyone knows that because of the sin of the father in adopted kids.
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#44650

Catlyn

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 10:46 AM

C. By giving greater loyalty to outside leadership
1. Pastor and church leaders
2. Men and women Bible teachers
3. Relatives and friends
Ask your husband your spiritual questions.


Along with others, I'm concerned with the list, but oddly enough this one stuck out to me. So if Jim Bob all of a sudden says, "Gothard's got it wrong, we're all going to become Amish!" She's going to go with this? If Jim Bob says something against Gothard's teachings, then that's the way the family goes as her husband goes before any Pastor or church leader?

Hmmm so if Jim Bob decides that God says, "Michelle you've done your duty, no more kids." She's got to understand that they won't be trying anymore? This would be an ep I would love to see.
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#44651

lz1982

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 11:19 AM

Along with others, I'm concerned with the list, but oddly enough this one stuck out to me. So if Jim Bob all of a sudden says, "Gothard's got it wrong, we're all going to become Amish!" She's going to go with this? If Jim Bob says something against Gothard's teachings, then that's the way the family goes as her husband goes before any Pastor or church leader?


I think it's something like that. I remember reading that if a daughter becomes more religiously liberal after marriage, the family will accept that because she's (theoretically) obeying her husband's wishes. But if a son leaves Gothardism, the family will be more upset.

That list was so horrible. As much as the producers try to spin that these are just typical, conservative Christians, you get these little glimpses of what's really going on. The idea that a wife being financially independent "kills her husband's spirit" is crazy to me. I know a lot of Christians, and others, who believe mothers should stay home with young children, but they wouldn't all put it in those terms.

Edited by lz1982, Feb 16, 2012 @ 11:20 AM.

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#44652

Christmas Time

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 11:37 AM

I was just watching SYTTD 20 worst families and the Duggars were # 19.
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#44653

Absolom

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 11:45 AM

The Duggars and other Gothard followers should be grateful I don't subscribe to their creeds. My husband became an atheist. What would they tell their daughters to do if that happened to them? Telling daughters that they should not become real people is extremely disturbing.
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#44654

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:01 PM

I think the producers are subtly trying to show viewers that the Duggars are not all sweetness and light. Just the fact that they lingered on that list long enough for someone to capture it and spread the word- they know how much people like to dissect the show. Also, the incident with Jim Bob and the street performer in Scotland, the random shots of the little ones doing dangerous things with no parental supervision, all these things make the Duggars look bad.

I have a feeling this may be the last season- only six weeks long, and made up of events that were filmed before the miscarriage. Of course there will be a VSE about Jubilee- we've seen glimpses of it in the previews, but I don't think TLC is filming anything new- there have been no reports of filming anywhere.

I still can't believe they are proceeding with the "happy pregnancy" premise- we all know how it ended. To drag it out over a season is cruel and sensational.
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#44655

ljohnson2006

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:13 PM

Who wants to place a wager on the fact that Michelle will be pregnant again by the end of the year? Why didn't they just do one special about Jubilee? Dragging it out isn't fair to anyone. The fact that TLC filmed this, and that Jim-Bob and Michelle let them is disgraceful. What happened to the "I have 21 kids?" Michelle and Jim-Bob were on the Today Show on Valentine's Day alone (Hello Baby 22 announcement in the coming weeks!) and she said that she had 10 boys and 10 girls. No mention of Caleb. It's sad that he's forgotten. Jim-Bob not being able to put his daughter's hair in a pony tail made me angry. How stupid are you? It shows how dependant he is on his older girls, and that's sad. They're your kids. Learn how to care for them yourself.
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#44656

OSM Mom

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:44 PM

The one about "love is killed by self-sufficiency" just kills me. Way to set the women's movement back 50 years, Michelle.


Really. It's just sad that they actually believe and live this crap. Blech.
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#44657

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 12:49 PM

Maybe I was just born with a cynical bitch heart but for the life of me I can't wrap my mind around being that sweet and docile and perfect


Then you're my spiritual twin:)

I think it's pretty much browbeaten into the girls to have that mentality because if they don't it means something is fundamentally wrong with them and everything bad in the world is their fault.

Do you ever notice how over-enthusiastic the J'Slaves are over mundane, stupid shit? For example the whole tree planting thing. They speak glowingly about their father and his ideas because they're just so "creative!" and "fun!" and "exciting!" I mean for God's sake, it's planting trees not curing cancer. Calm down ladies.
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#44658

3 is enough

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:05 PM

I wonder how many of those trees survived. They have to be watered by hand. I'm not holding out much hope.

I did notice a new bed in the middle of the floor of the boys' room. Guess Jackson has graduated from the flip out chair.
Hopefully we'll see some beds for the little girls too.

When JB said he had to go and change Jenny, I hope he was talking about clothes, not a diaper. The child is 4 1/2.
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#44659

espie

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:07 PM

As my "JOY" act of the day, here's a little transcript of Michelle's handout:....

Oh wow. I may never be able to stop throwing up.
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#44660

AtlanticVamp

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:10 PM

I was just watching SYTTD 20 worst families and the Duggars were # 19.


Christmas Time, what does SYTTD mean?

Never mind, just Googled it. Holy crap, she actually went on Say Yes to the Dress? Seriously? Once your spawn number in the dozens, I think the jig is up!

Edited by AtlanticVamp, Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:15 PM.

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#44661

Carolinesgranny

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:12 PM

worried about little Jenny ...yes, she is still in a diaper...at one point during the segment JB told her not to take it off. Sorry to say I think this child has problems...
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#44662

ljohnson2006

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 1:55 PM

Jennifer still being in diapers is concerning. She is four. She should be potty trained by now. I wonder how many more of the Duggar kids have issues that the family is ignoring. How are they going to react when they realize that Josie has more problems than they've been leading on? Her "Miracle" status probably does not come without complications. Whatever happened to the fact that she was missing some anchors in her stomach? Did she ever get the surgery that they were talking about when she was in the NICU? I wish they would seek professional help for the children that need more attention. I was shocked to see that Dr. Sarver was caring for Michelle during this pregnancy. I thought I read that she was being seen by a high risk doctor. I really hope that they stop trying to have more kids. This whole "We leave it up to God" is getting old. God doesn't want babies dying because of irresponsible parents.
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#44663

Absolom

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 2:08 PM

Michelle was probably being seen by both Dr Sarver and a specialist or Dr Sarver was in consultation with a high risk specialist. Arkansas is underserved medically and for many specialities the only competent physician is in Little Rock. We have relatives there and for anything beyond regular "normal" medical care they have to go to Little Rock.
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#44664

ljohnson2006

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 2:24 PM

Thanks for the info Absolom. I knew that she went to Little Rock when she had Josie, but you'd think that she'd have to be seen by some high risk specialist because of her age, number of pregnancies and previous complications.
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#44665

Cheetah0131

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 2:28 PM

worried about little Jenny ...yes, she is still in a diaper...at one point during the segment JB told her not to take it off. Sorry to say I think this child has problems...

That was Jordyn, who was a few months shy of her 3rd birthday at the time. I'm pretty sure JimBob meant that he was changing Jennifer's clothes; he had just picked out a dress for her moments before.

I cringed at the shot of the boy riding on the top of the drill during the tree planting endeavor. Is that as dangerous as I think it is? What if the operator accidently switched the drill on?
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#44666

ljohnson2006

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 2:36 PM

I'm so glad that Josie has hair now, and they took off that ridiculous headband/pigtail thing. It was so ugly. They must be scraping for ideas this season. Mackynze's first hair cut? Wow. I really want to see that. I think that the Duggars might be moving out, and the Bates are moving into their timeslot. Everything has to come to an end, and I think that in light of recent events, the Duggars should stop filming, and go back to their normal lives before the show. Whatever that was.
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#44667

Lopethina

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 2:52 PM

As my "JOY" act of the day, here's a little transcript of Michelle's handout:

E. By resisting his physical affection
1. This is the unspoken crushing of a man's spirit.
2. A wife's Godliness is a powerful guard against her husband's abuse of something (the shot cuts off, but it doesn't end at abuse).

I found a copy of that handout, and the full line is:

2. A wife's godliness is a powerful guard against her husband's abuse of her (I Peter 3:1).
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#44668

LaffyTaffy

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

Oh Lopethina, you sassy gal! Thanks for sharing the link for that ridiculous handout. So apparently God hates overweight women, women with short hair and unattractive women! Who woulda thunk it!

No wonder they had Jana in Weight Watchers for a couple extra pounds of baby chub she could have easily lost on her own. Michelle, I will admit, looks fantastic weight-wise for having had so many children. Anna unfortunately is going in the direction of her sister who has seven or eight kids.

Also ironic the handout mentiones weight control when all these people eat is processed starches and sugar. Talk about an uphill battle for the girls. I also wonder if this doctrine explains Sarah Malley's obvious anorexia.

I wonder what their view is on plastic surgery. Would they let a girl get a nose job or lipo if they thought it would help land them a husband?
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#44669

neptune42

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 3:07 PM

I was a bit offended by TLC's attempt to play on the audience with the dr not finding the heartbeat in the promo and then it being a 12 week visit where frequently the heartbeat can't be found by doppler.


Word. I'm not sure I'll be watching this season, with this kind of manipulation. Sure, this is hardly the first incidence of misleading editing, but we're talking about a pregnancy here.

I wonder what their view is on plastic surgery. Would they let a girl get a nose job or lipo if they thought it would help land them a husband?


I don't think Jim Bob and OfJimBob want the older girls to find a husband. Who would take care of the kids and the house then?
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#44670

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Posted Feb 16, 2012 @ 3:08 PM

I wonder what their view is on plastic surgery. Would they let a girl get a nose job or lipo if they thought it would help land them a husband?


Johannah needed plastic surgery to avoid a scar when she fell and cut her face. Jim Bob said that if it had been one of the boys, a scar would have been ok, but girls "needed to be pretty". So there's your answer.
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