695 replies to this topic

[Artlawprod]

So, loved the pilot, loved Wes' rant. Other thoughts:

Pleased at how well BW transitioned from Josh to Danny. Danny is exceptionally calm and smooth compaired to his counterpart on that other show.

Matthew Perry is exceptional. Really pleased he's back on television and not in a sitcom.

Amanda Peet was okay but didn't show much range. I don't understand how she got to the position she's currently in at NBS.

Sarah Paulson is lovely but I think Sorkin did her a disservice in that she seems humorless in the pilot. We need to see her being part of the "Big Three" and we need to see that she's quick and funny and pithy.

The other two members of the big three need some fleshing out.

I love Cal. 'nuff said.

I think they should make Suzanne the PA a regular.

[threeinchheels]

I know this has already been said, but I would like to say it again in this thread - Nice one, Lauren Lohman!

[Artlawprod]

She used to be Sorkin's assistant, right?

[threeinchheels]

Yep, indeed she was.

[Artlawprod]

Depends on the production. I have a friend who has been an associate producer on a variety of shows and he works in a variety of capacities, none of them at the assistant level. It also means your pay goes up from like $25K to $50K (those are made up numbers, but you get the idea).

[Artlawprod]

The truth is the best chemistry I saw was that between Matt and Danny, oh and Cal and everyone. but I suppose you mean sexual chemistry.

I think chemistry between to characters needs to develop to some extent organicly. I remember cringing when I first heard that there would be a love-triangle between Matt and Danny and Jordon. First, I saw no evidence of a Matt and Jordan chemistry in the pilot (after all, Matt and Jordon had all of two scenes together) but more to the point look at what happened in TWW. You had Mandy and Josh who had negative sexual chemistry and who were supposed to have something and didn't and instead you ended up with Donna and Josh who seemed to have a great deal of sexual chemistry throughout the years. Second, while we know that Peet and Perry have some natural chemistry we have no idea whether Whitford and Peet do or whether any of it will come across in this instance. I hope that Sorkin watches what happens on screen before he and Schlamme make those decisions about character pairings.

Personally (and I think I've pretty much said this everywhere, including up thread a tiny bit) I love Suzanne the PA. I want more Suzanne the PA. I'd start a character thread for Suzanne the PA except I don't even know if she's in episode two. I have a little heterosexual crush on Suzanne the PA.

[threeinchheels]

I've seen sides where she is, although I couldn't tell you how much she is in the episode. I agree that I hope we see much more of her.

Incidentally, someone brought this up on the Drama forum thread - hands up who noticed that it was Aaron who did the line about "Studio 60, you're up on Router 2 - good show"?

[rachel1707uk]

I've seen the pilot a few times now and here are my thoughts (bearing in mind, of course, that my opinion is worth roughly sod all):
Bradley Whitford - excellent as always. Not a hint of Josh about him and (as someone else - can't remember who - said) a definite air of mystery about his character.
Matthew Perry - also excellent. In fact, I might even go as far as to say he was my favourite out of the pilot (and nobody's more surprised about that than myself).
Amanda Peet - slightly hit and miss but I think she's going to be great too once she hits her stride. However (and I have a vague recollection of saying this in the other thread a while ago) the character seemed a little inconsistent and I'd like to see more of her being ballsy and less of her being either flirty or little-girl-lost.
Steven Weber - liked him a lot. Every show needs a bad guy and I think he's excellent at it.
Judd Hirsch - I thought he was great; the "rant" worked really well and is a cracking way to kick off the show.
Timothy Busfield - predictably excellent. The look on his face at the end when Danny said he'd be keeping his job was just lovely.
Sarah Paulson - had a few dodgy moments but mostly very good. I've seen her in other things and I think - as with AP - she'll be even better once she has a few episodes under her belt.
D.L. Hughley - I thought he was really good, and I loved the chemistry between him and Nate Corddry.
Nate Corddry - I have a small crush on him. OK, a big crush. Seriously, though, I hope they keep Tom a bit sweet and naive; I love characters like that.
Michael Stuhlbarg - I thought he was very good too, and I'd like to see plenty more of him. The face-off between his character and Cal in the control room was fantastic, and the way it was inter-cut with Wes's monologue worked brilliantly.
Secondary Characters - this is my main criticism of the pilot; I wasn't impressed at all with most of the casting of the secondary characters. I think Daphne and Shelley were my favourites out of the bunch but certainly I didn't think either of them was another Janel Moloney (i.e. someone who deserves to be elevated to the status of primary character). I know some people liked Suzanne, but - much as I hate to be the voice of dissent - I thought she stood out as being particularly bad.
Chemistry - I'm sticking with my earlier Jack/Jordan prediction. Didn't see any chemistry between BW and AP (in fact, I thought the scene in the hotel room was her weakest) so I'll be disappointed if they try and go down the Danny/Jordan route. I think Matt/Harriet has definite potential, although what took the shine off it for me was the way they made it a bit TOO obvious that they both still have feelings for one another; I'd have preferred that to be reflected in the scenes between the two of them rather than the ones where they're talking to other people.
Overall - liked it a lot. Slightly disappointed that they cut some of my favourite bits ("you look like the number two guy in a Colombian drug cartel" and - surprisingly as it was on the preview from the upfronts - "I spend what's left of my career playing the Ben Vereen part in Pippin") but definitely vintage Sorkin and I can't wait for the full season to start.

Edited by rachel1707uk, Aug 19, 2006 @ 2:57 AM.

[threeinchheels]

Two teeny things.

I wish, wish, wish that the "Dees ah from Hugo" gag would have stayed in. I don't know why but that really made me laugh when I read the pilot.

The other little detail I enjoyed was Matt's face when sat in the meeting with the execs and he blurts out "What the hell are we talking about?!"

[immaf]

Wouldn't you know my cable went down just as I was preparing to comment on the pilot? Here are my impressions from having seen it once.

I was really impressed with Matthew Perry. I thought he was great, and I didn't know he had it in him. There is not one smidge of Chandler in Matt Albie. Yay!

I also thought Brad Whitford was good, but I wasn't surprised. And I totally agree with the people who believe Danny and Matt's friendship. I certainly bought it.

Steve Weber was wonderful in an oily, steely way, and Tim Busfield was very appealing. Count me in with those who liked Suzanne the PA. I predict she will eventually become a regular. I only hope they don't make her the Donna of the show. And I particularly don't want to see her unrequitedly in love with anyone.

I think Sarah Paulson was fine as Harriet. I saw definite hints of strength underneath the soft-spoken exterior. She strikes me as the kind of person who will quietly but firmly do things her way. And if you oppose her, she will quietly but firmly cut you off at the knees. Smiling pleasantly the whole time.

I did not see that kind of strength in Amanda Peet as Jordan. I have to say I consider her the weak link in the cast. (After only one viewing, mind.) Too doe-like, for lack of a better word. There were several times at the end of a scene when the camera lingered on her, as if she were thinking. But I didn't see her thoughts, I just saw someome standing still because they had been told to do so. It looked like a pretty good example of "smell the fart" acting to me.

To be fair, when I read the sides (which is the extent of my spoilage) for Jordan, they conjured up images of C.J. and Dana when she was being competent. That's what I expected. A take-charge kind of woman. If Amanda Peet had played it that way, I suppose we'd all be talking about how Sorkin had just written another version of C.J. Peet made some different choices. Unfortunately, they didn't work for me.

Now for a couple of quibbles. My Mom called bullshit on Matt's mobility. If he's recovering from back surgery, he wouldn't dash into buildings or sprint up a flight of stairs. I don't care what kind of meds he's on.

And I call bullshit on Harriet's line "Let me watch you smoke a cigarette". She's supposed to be a singer, and singers care a great deal about their voices. In general, singers don't smoke, and will go out of their way to avoid second-hand smoke. (It amazes me that some actors DO smoke in real life. They should care about their voices too.)

In fact, you know what I would like? First off, I would be very happy if they portray Harriet as being dedicated to her religion, but also very tolerant of of other people's religions or lack thereof. There are plenty of people of all faiths who are like that, and it would be refreshing to see on the small screen. But to spice it up, it would be interesting if she had a blind spot of intolerance when it comes to smoking. Sort of a "Worship any God you like, as long as it's not J.R. Reynolds" sort of thing.

But regardless, I cry bullshit. The putative singer should not condone smoking in her presence.

Writing a pilot must be tough, because you have to establish a lot of new characters all at once. I remember watching the pilot for TWW and thinking "Well, I'll certainly come back for more." That is exactly my reaction to this pilot. I think the show is off to a good, promising start, and I am already looking forward to episode two.

ETA: Is that what Writers Guild Awards really look like? I want one!

Edited by immaf, Aug 9, 2006 @ 11:59 AM.

[Blanky]

And I call bullshit on Harriet's line "Let me watch you smoke a cigarette". She's supposed to be a singer, and singers care a great deal about their voices. In general, singers don't smoke, and will go out of their way to avoid second-hand smoke. (It amazes me that some actors DO smoke in real life. They should care about their voices too.)

You're right that singers care a great deal about their voices, and many will go out of their way to avoid second-hand smoke, but there are also many who do smoke. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is. As a smoker, I totally bought that line.

Also, it's showbiz--a ton more Hollywood types smoke than is publicized. They're ashamed to in public, but not in private (because shame comes at you from the outside, guilt comes from within) and that's how I am, too. I've known many singers who've smoked. I like that the contradiction adds an extra dimension to her character. I guess I just relate, because nobody who doesn't know me would ever peg me for a smoker--strangers are always kind of shocked, and every convenince store clerk thinks I'm one of those underage narcs who help the state nail stores who sell smokes to minors. Not that I'm proud of it, but there isn't always a stereotypical smoker.

I understand your disappointment, though.

[immaf]

I know what is was I forgot to say about Harriet. As I said, I certainly saw hints of inner ballsyness. In what I took to be her "don't even think about messing with sweet little old me" character, I got a slight Stockard Channing vibe. Harriet may well end up being one of the surprise breakout characters of this show.

Another thing I forgot to mention -- the sets! Terrific, and so interesting. (The half-cab, the half-subway car.) Only, I didn't care for the United Nations conference room. Where did that come from, and how does it even fit in the building?

I have no idea, after one viewing where everything lies in relation to everything else, but I suppose that will come in time.

Edited by immaf, Aug 9, 2006 @ 10:27 AM.

[immaf]

Wandering off topic here, but all I can say is that I hang out with bunches of people who sing classical music/opera/operetta/Broadway. (Not professionally, although many of them are good enough to do so.) And off the top of my head, I can't think of a single one who smokes. That's not to say they don't exist, but I truly think it's pretty rare. And therefore, I cry bullshit on Harriet's line.

[Artlawprod]

And I call bullshit on Harriet's line "Let me watch you smoke a cigarette". She's supposed to be a singer, and singers care a great deal about their voices. In general, singers don't smoke, and will go out of their way to avoid second-hand smoke. (It amazes me that some actors DO smoke in real life. They should care about their voices too.)

And I call bullshit on your bullshit:

1) I know many singers who smoke...especially ones who sing standards there is a "smokey" quality that one can get in their voice that sells albums. See Rosemary Clooney.

2) Many singers I know used to smoke but don't anymore because of their voice. As such they are reformed smokers who are desperate for any whaft of second hand smoke they get.

3) Smoking is an addiction. Just because something isn't rational, doesn't mean that the addiction doesn't override the logic. Just ask AS.

[Blanky]

And I call bullshit on Harriet's line "Let me watch you smoke a cigarette". She's supposed to be a singer, and singers care a great deal about their voices. In general, singers don't smoke, and will go out of their way to avoid second-hand smoke. (It amazes me that some actors DO smoke in real life. They should care about their voices too.)

Funny, I almost said something about opera singers in my last post, but didn't. Total word on that, but classical/opera/broadway is a world away from rock, singer/songwriters, country, etc.

The latter group can rely on songwriting skill, instrumental talent, looks, and personality to make up for a less than outstanding voice. The former group does not have that luxury. They're the ones who (quite rightly) coddle their voices with steamers, special lozenges, etc. out of necessity. If the voice falters, so does their career.

To me, Harriet falls in the latter group--singing isn't her primary showcase. She's also an actor. Also, it seems she's a reformed smoker--she didn't take a drag, and second-hand smoke outdoors isn't as smothering as it is indoors. Hell, I hate smoking indoors.

Artlawprod got to it sooner. And, amen on the addiction beating rational thought in the rock-paper-scissors of life.

Edited by Blanky, Aug 9, 2006 @ 11:11 AM.

[Richyyy]

To be fair, when I read the sides (which is the extent of my spoilage) for Jordan, they conjured up images of C.J. and Dana when she was being competent. That's what I expected. A take-charge kind of woman. If Amanda Peet had played it that way, I suppose we'd all be talking about how Sorkin had just written another version of C.J. Peet made some different choices. Unfortunately, they didn't work for me.

But... I don't see Peet making any choices. I see her playing the exact same character that she's played in everything else I've ever seen her in. Which to me means that must be how Sorkin wanted it played, because they pursued her for the part. Maybe I'm wrong - I just looked up her IMDb profile and there's a lot she's done that I haven't seen, so maybe I've just missed the roles where she illustrates her range. But to me Paulson is the one with extraordinary range and a certain chameleonic talent to be different in every role, while Peet is the one who may become the bigger 'star' due to her more obvious cuteness/hotness.

I'm not saying either is necessarily wrong for their role, or bad for the show, or just generally bad. Just that from my perspective Paulson is making choices about practically every element of how to play Harriet, while Peet is turning up on set and doing what she normally does.

Edited by Richyyy, Aug 9, 2006 @ 11:46 AM.

[Blanky]

Regarding Peet, I agree with the many comments that her odd half-smile-to-herself and her cryptic (yet not at all mysterious, which--weird) reaction expressions are "off" (for lack of a better word--I have insomnia and my vocabulary is inversely proportional to the number of hours I've been awake--over 24 hours at this point). I was disappointed at first.

It seemed like she was in a bubble of dreamy serenity. Or drugged.

The more I think about it, though, Jordan's reaction to the surreal and unlikely situation involving a)a huge new job b)the interruption of an already nerve-wracking dinner party thrown in her honor c)a history-making, live, on-air meltdown and all its messy repurcussions d)the realization that she is responsible for cleaning up after said messy repercussions--could conceivably be to surround herself in a bubble of dreamy serenity. It's a more appealing option than panicking or shutting down altogether.

Then again, the "bubble" coping method doesn't exactly scream "savvy new network entertainment chief" as Jordan's described on the offical site. We'll see, I guess.

Edited by Blanky, Aug 9, 2006 @ 12:59 PM.

[Alan Swann]

The Harriet/smoking horse is, if not dead, breathing its last, but I wanted to chime in with those who feel she used it as an excuse to get herself, Simon and Tom outside to talk alone, something they probably hadn't had a chance to do since Wes' rant. The line also had a small element of flirtiness about it -- making it about Simon, not herself -- and SP made it sound like it wasn't the first time Harriet had said that to Simon. It came across to me as something approaching a ritual.

I wish, wish, wish that the "Dees ah from Hugo" gag would have stayed in. I don't know why but that really made me laugh when I read the pilot.

Never fear, Dirty Int... er, threeinchheels -- the way Sorkin recycles his own writing, I can't see him not finding another place for good lines like that which get cut.

[threeinchheels]

Oh Alan Swann, you came so close to saying it! As far as that joke is concerned, I have my chequebook here and I am willing to pay for him to use it.

[immaf]

I've just finished watching the pilot for the second time. A few comments and questions:

I am still confused by the dizzying array of flunkys, assistants, what have you. I kind of thought the woman in blue (Shelly?) was Jordan's assistant, except she was at the dinner with Jordan. So who called Jordan away from the dinner party? Who is Jordan's assistant?

It struck me while watching the first scene with Standards Guy and Wes that Standards Guy was TOTALLY channeling Josh from The West Wing. Certainly, Sorkin's typical rhythms are going to crop up all the time, but this seemed more than that. It was almost like a deliberate copying, except they would bever have allowed the actor to do that, would they?

My Mom thought that BW's delivery of Danny's line "I have no reason to trust you and every reason not to.... Because you work in television." was strongly reminiscent of Tim Busfield as Danny in The West Wing. I kind of see it, and it makes my brain hurt.

I liked Amanda Peet a little more upon a second viewing, but I still think she was the weak link.