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#91

adina

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Posted May 18, 2006 @ 12:33 PM

These two have so much potential. I really want to see them deal with it more.

Rory never dealt with the death of their relationship. She ran (hey, there's that running thing again!) from it in her mind, and left physically also...now, I can say that she's pretty much over it - at least she's definitely over the hurt of it. There's absolutely still some feelings left in her for Jess, and whether that's strictly platonic at this point, or maybe something more.

I don't want to compare, but I don't think that her relationship -- whatever it is or isn't at this point -- with Jess has anything to do with her feelings for and her relationship with Logan. Just want to make that clear.

It's too late now, and they're both past whatever happened when they were in high school, but back in like S4...or even early S5, I really would have liked to see Rory deal with her Jess issues. Even as early as Ballrooms & Biscotti, she was telling everyone how fine she was witth it, how it was all in the past, she was completely over it -- ancient history. But how could she have been?

#92

vanillamountain

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Posted May 21, 2006 @ 1:18 PM

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I was on youtube earlier today and I saw this video, which I love. Basically, it's assorted clips of Rory and Jess on Gilmore Girls with Jennifer Paige's "Crush" playing on the background.

It sounds really stupid, but the end result is pretty good, I have to say. I never realized just how well Jess and Rory's relationship matched the song's lyrics.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=tzxMCHLH0Oo

#93

yokococo

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 12:40 AM

Fanfics: anything by MahliaLily is genius, but I really love this one: Stupid Reasons.

As much as I think Jess/Rory was one of the greatest love stories, I really don't think they're going to end up together. 1. Milo has a new show. 2. I think the writers still want to tell the Rory/Logan story, for whatever reason. Rory's character has been so screwed up almost beyond repair for the past two years.

ETA: and this one: The Last Time

They're one-parters, so they're short and sweet. They're kind of old though, so you may have come across them before.

Edited by yokococo, May 22, 2006 @ 12:47 AM.


#94

fulfilled

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 9:09 AM

Okay, I've got a question for everyone, but it needs some explanation first (and I apologize in advance for the amount of Logan in this post, but it's kind of necessary, in order to set up the question).

Last week, I was talking to one of my betas about finding good Rory fics, both Rory/Jess and Rory/Logan, and she commented that she hasn't really seen any good "triangle" fics out there lately, particularly post-TRPA. She commented that she sometimes has a difficult time getting into current fics where Rory realizes that she really loves Jess, not Logan, because in order for that to work within the current canon, it seems like Logan's character needs to be manipulated and/or assassinated so that Rory really is unhappy.

My response was that, at this point, I think that, there are a few points where the Jess/Logan/Rory thing could diverge and a triangle could form, or Rory and Jess could get back together. One would have been if she realized at some point last season, or even beginning of S6, with the yacht and stuff, that Logan wasn't good for her, and had broken it off with him then, and then found her way back to Jess at some point after that.

Another option is if Rory and Logan had never gotten back together after LMHYBRO, and Jess' question about "fixing everything" in TRPA really did mean the "everything" that he thought it did. In that case, I could see a TRPA reunion, but the groundwork for it would have had be laid back in LMHYBRO.

That, though--LMHYBRO and immediately following--is the last time that I see a truly believable, non-character-assassinating (because at that point, Logan's character didn't have much left to assassinate) split between Rory and Logan, leading to a renewed romance with Rory and Jess. Right now, I don't see Rory and Logan's relationship being destroyed by a simple Jess encounter. I could see him being a temptation during a weak spot in her and Logan's relationship (following the theme that we saw in TRPA, maybe), but right now, it's not as believable a possibility.

So, my question for all of you is, where is the last place that you see Rory and Jess believably (within the show) getting back together? What makes it work, or not work? How does it fit into the other factors of her life--particularly her love life?

#95

adina

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 10:42 AM

What a great question! There were many places. TRPA possibly - but only if Rory didn't get back with Logan after LMHYBRO, like you said. Before that? Honestly? LWFTWT. Why, yes, there are fanfics that deal with that! As a matter of fact, there's one where chapter 2 was just posted and should be validated very soon. But really -- if we're going by Jess appearances, that was it - or if they kept in touch after LMHYBRO and Logan was gone for good after that. Not dependent on Milo's appearances? Depends on Rory and her feelings for Logan. Maybe around PF?

When Rory and Jess were together in season 3, whenever Jess disappointed her, she would compare him as a boyfriend to Dean. "Sure, when Dean said he would call, he always did, but where's the fun in that?" Maybe sometime during the Logan relationship she might have compared back to Jess.

So the answer is...I don't know, I agree with you, and end of 4th season.

Edited by adina, May 22, 2006 @ 10:49 AM.


#96

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 10:46 AM

I love Rory/Jess and I agree that LWFTWT would have been a great place for them to get back together. They could have spent the summer repairing the damage that was done to their relationship and it also would have spared Rory from making what, IMO, was the biggest mistake of her life: sleeping with Dean.

#97

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 2:48 PM

And I agree with all of you about LWFTWT. For me, a Rory/Jess reunion near the end of S4 could have saved us from the assiness of Logan in S5 and, of course, the return of Dean. How many times in 4-5 years were we subjected to him because he was always Rory's fall back plan? Too many. As much as I disliked him, I was glad that he finally really broke up with her. Of course, there was Logan after that . . . but my point is Jess coming back would have stopped the Rory and Dean sex, and I'm all for that. And more importantly, they could have used that time to fix the problems they had in S3 and finally try for an honest relationship.

#98

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 3:02 PM

And I agree with all of you about LWFTWT. For me, a Rory/Jess reunion near the end of S4 could have saved us from the assiness of Logan in S5 and, of course, the return of Dean.



But who would have saved us from the assiness that was Jess? You do recall that he didn't have his miraculous transformation until season 6.

#99

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 3:15 PM

You do recall that he didn't have his miraculous transformation until season 6.

It started at the end of S4, though. No, he wasn't as mature then as he is now, but he showed a remarkable amount of growth from 3.22 to 4.21. In season 4, we saw it primarily in his relationship with Luke, but I think that it would have been evident with Rory, had the storyline developed over more time.

And more importantly, they could have used that time to fix the problems they had in S3 and finally try for an honest relationship.

Word, FreakOut. I think that they both had a better understanding of what a relationship would take; they just weren't in a place to test it out. His appearance at her dorm was anything but ideal, and they both gave knee-jerk reactions out of stress and fear, more than anything else. If it had been just a little different--if the circumstances had been less dire, if she had been less confused about Dean, if Jess had given her a little more time to think... I think it could have lead to something there, and I think that they would have been much more able to begin a more mature relationship than they had in S3.

#100

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 4:23 PM

Word, FreakOut. I think that they both had a better understanding of what a relationship would take; they just weren't in a place to test it out. His appearance at her dorm was anything but ideal, and they both gave knee-jerk reactions out of stress and fear, more than anything else. If it had been just a little different--if the circumstances had been less dire, if she had been less confused about Dean, if Jess had given her a little more time to think... I think it could have lead to something there, and I think that they would have been much more able to begin a more mature relationship than they had in S3.


He wanted her to leave with him. You think given more time to think about it, she would've left Yale for him? I don't think so.

#101

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 5:25 PM

Rory would not have left Yale with Jess for any reason, even if she wasn't still wondering about Dean. I don't think that Jess would have even asked her to leave with him if he had seen her alone, instead of seeing Dean outside her dorm room. I think he reacted because of seeing Dean.

I wish they would have talked after the fight in K!M! I think if they could have talked about what happened in the bedroom, about the fight with Dean, about all the trouble with school that Jess was having, I think they could have had a decent relationship. I don't know if it would have worked beyond Rory's first year at Yale, but I think they would have been lovers.

I actually like how their relationship has grown. I am happy that they had what they did, that it has remained, for lack of a better word, "pure." IMO, Rory really respects Jess and truly is happy for him and I don't think he could have become the man he became, if he had stayed in SH and with Rory.

I'm still not sold on Logan as anyone long term for Rory, but I really cannot see she and Jess together anymore. This said by a once diehard Lit.

#102

EmilyAC

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Posted May 22, 2006 @ 10:16 PM

I agree. I cannot see Jess and Rory ever getting back together again. I think Jess will always be important to Rory, but I think Logan is her first true adult relationship. I hated Rory/Logan at first, but now I love them and I'm much more invested in seeing their relationship develop than a Jess/Rory retread. I think they've moved beyond each other at this point.

#103

adina

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Posted May 25, 2006 @ 10:43 AM

So lately I've been thinking a lot about the moment at Yale at the end of LWF,TWT. but there's a lot of "maybes" and "What ifs" in that scene.

If Dean hadn't been there at all -- if Rory hadn't been thinking about him at all -- would she have given Jess another chance, would she have said yes? If Dean hadn't been there when Jess arrived, would he still have asked Rory to come away with him? What was his original plan in going to see her?

We (yes, fulfilled and I) were talking about this recently and we thought that perhaps he was going -- based on his conversations with Luke -- to tell her that he appreciated her, to apologize, maybe -- to ask if there was a chance for something else or possibly try to restart a friendship?

Jess and Dean were always sore points for the other. To Jess, Dean was always the one he had to live up to...the one he was always being compared to. To Dean, Jess was always the one who swooped in and took his girl away. And even when they weren't with Rory, the same roles still fit. Dean was the one who was there, after Jess had disappeared for a year. Jess was the one who came back and Rory sent Dean away for.

I think the "Let's go away and leave everything behind, just you and me" was kind of a knee-jerk reaction from Jess. He loved her, he felt that they were meant to be together, and instead of his planned, mature, discussion -- seeing Dean brought out his jealousy and insecurity and he went the drastic route. I gotta say, I can't blame Rory for saying no in that situation, as out of the blue as it was but still...

What would have happened had Jess not asked her to do something so rash? If he simply went to talk to her rationally and calmly like adults? What might he have said? What kind of reaction would Rory have given him?

All this could be because Chapter 2 of Come Away With Me was recently posted on BWR. It includes the Conversation, the Talk, that Rory and Jess so needed to have.[/shameless plug]

Edited by adina, May 25, 2006 @ 10:44 AM.


#104

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Posted May 31, 2006 @ 3:06 PM

I agree that Jess and Rory are meant for each other. Jess brings out a truth in Rory that no one else can and vice versa. I don't doubt that she loves Logan, but they don't bring out the best in each other. And I think that once Logan actually grows up and starts taking his "Huntzberger" heritage seriously, he's not going to want to be with Rory anymore. Not that he doesn't love her, but I think the only thing that keeps Logan from cracking under family pressure right now is the fact that he doesn't care about his "legacy". If that changes, what his family thinks will matter.

But back to Jessory, I think they'll end up together in the long run, they've always had great chemistry (maybe its because they love each other in reality) and whenever the other is off track, they can help them back on it; and Rory still gets her world rocked everytime Jess tells her how he really feels. That's gotta count for something....

#105

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Posted Jun 4, 2006 @ 6:38 PM

Bringing this over from the Jess thread, because it's more about the two of them than it is about just him...

I haven't been able to watch most of the Rory/Jess scenes after Swan Song.

I'm working through S3, and it's taken me forever to get through the post-SS episodes for that reason. I finally did it last night and tonight, and I just finished K!M!, which choked me up, because it's the last time that they really talk or have any really good moments together until... LMHYBRO, really.

Even in those "breakdown" episodes (Swan Song, Face-Off, The Big One, A Tale of Poes and Fire, Happy Birthday Baby, and Keg!Max!), there are still enough touching and tender moments that it's not all painful, but in a way, that makes it more sad, just because now we know how it goes. 22.8 miles, the agoraphobic couple, "you're not tired of me, are you?", kisses before school, hanging out with the band... those are all those sweet moments that let us see that it could still have worked, if they'd just talk to each other!

But it just hurts when I realize that Kyle's party is the last time they really talk for almost 3 years. And in that, it's funny how they mirror each other--in K!M!, Jess' life is falling apart, and Rory tries to talk to him, but he evades the questions, and the breakdown continues. In LMHYBRO, it's Rory who's falling apart, and Jess who confronts her, but he won't let her avoid the issue, and she sees it.

#106

Oksana

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Posted Jun 5, 2006 @ 2:07 PM

Hi everyone ! My name's Oksana i'm from Ukraine.Now at us show a season 2 love story of Rory & Jess only begin , I advice because know that together they will be not long, and me indeed harm. Rory and Jess it it two different worlds but, they surprisingly befit to each other. I do not know now why they will divide to, but think that probably through that that so in any way and dare not fully to confide in each other.And they are afraid now Jess steals her bangle and book only to see her, and Rory not yet disbelieves in that indeed loves him, but why they will not confide in each other?
Very much harm that Jess departed, and Rory did not stop him, and he did not get back did not take away her. They simply released each other, then to suffer from pain of which inflicted love that remained in their hearts... Why?

Edited by Oksana, Jun 5, 2006 @ 2:10 PM.


#107

adina

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Posted Jun 9, 2006 @ 12:49 PM

I've been absent from the forums for a little while but I'm popping back up to say that all this talk about the end -- or the beginning of the end -- is making me cry.

That's what killed them, was a lack of communication. It wasn't the major issues that Jess had (though that certainly didn't help), it wasn't the fact that pretty much everyone was against their relationship -- it was the fact that they kept hiding from each other, and that's what's so sad. If they had just talked to each other, confided -- we know they had the potential, but they didn't use it!

And even though when we see them together now, all I want them to do is just forget everything else and be together -- it's not right at this time. They both have their own, seperate lives, and at least one of them has a significant other that they are happy with.

They've both grown up so much in these past three years, it makes me very proud, especially after they were both floundering so much -- one more recently than the other but that's not the point.

I would love to see them be able to be friends -- no romance to gunk up the works -- just close friends who can be there for each other.

Oh man, this entire post is just me reiterating all I've said over and over again.

How about a question? How would early season 5 have been different if Rory had been involved with Jess at the time instead of Dean? It's something I've given a lot of thought to.

#108

fulfilled

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Posted Jun 14, 2006 @ 7:55 PM

I would love to see them be able to be friends -- no romance to gunk up the works -- just close friends who can be there for each other.

Friends, definitely, and family too. I really want to see them, if they're not going to end up together, settling into a family role, both of them (actually, all of them) learning what it means to be and have extended family. Extended family that you like, let's clarify.

I think it would be awesome to see them at family events together, to see their kids playing together, getting to know (even if they don't absolutely love) each other's spouses... maybe it's an idealistic view of what could be, but I think that they've both grown up enough, and will continue to do so, that it could be a distinct possibility.

#109

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Posted Jun 24, 2006 @ 9:26 PM

Jess and Rory seem to have the best connection. Last season they were both in different places in their life so it would be hard to get together. But after all that's happened between the two, I think it would be a shame if they didn't end up together.

#110

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Posted Jun 24, 2006 @ 9:56 PM

How would early season 5 have been different if Rory had been involved with Jess at the time instead of Dean?

Well, you know what I think about that, since it's what you think, but since you didn't say, I will.

I think that everything surrounding the LDB and the early Logan interactions would still have happened, but it would have been contextualized completely differently. When Dean read Rory's article, his lack of response showed the difference between them yet again, but I think that if she'd been with Jess at the time, he would have been much more invested in it. Helped her edit or proof the article? Maybe. She still might have had to be vague about it while she was actually with the LDB, but afterwards, I think he would have had a much better idea of what was going on than Dean did.

Regardless of all those little specific details, though, I think that Jess would have actually known what was going on in Rory's school life (in that aspect, anyway)--not because he's the most open person, or because he's better than Dean was, but just because it intersected so clearly with a common thread that he and Rory had.

Also, presumably, at that point, he and Rory would have worked through at least some of the issues between them, so communication would be in a slightly better place than a) it was with Jess when he left, or b) it was with Dean during that time. She and Dean weren't talking about anything of significance or substance, and that shows in their relationship and the way she was able to so easily compartmentalize her life.

I think that after fighting to get her back and going out on such a limb, Jess wouldn't let Rory compartmentalize, if it had been him. I think that Rory tried to include Dean, but he didn't want to be, or didn't know how to be, and was just as easy for her not to try. I think that Jess might struggle with the same thing--feeling left out of a part of her life--but Jess is pushier than Dean in a lot of ways. I think that he would be more a part of her school life than Dean was--not because Jess was at Yale, but just because he would almost (kind of) push himself in. And I don't mean that in a bad way; I just mean that he wouldn't let her dismiss him when it came to school-related things.

As for Logan... I think that Rory still would have developed a sort of rivalry/camaraderie with him at the paper. I think he would still intrigue her, and she would still intrigue him. As for whether it would go further than that? I don't know. I think that she would still push him for the LDB info, and he would still invite her, because at that point, there was still ostensibly no interest between them. But beyond that? My Lit heart would like to think that she and Jess would be stable and there wouldn't be anything further than professional colleagues and sparring partners in the office, but I'm sure that, if the writers had gone that way, they wouldn't have been able to let it be that simple. ;)

#111

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Posted Jun 24, 2006 @ 10:10 PM

If only it could be that simple. I just truthfully believe Jess & Rory are meant to be together.

#112

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 9:41 AM

If only it could be that simple. I just truthfully believe Jess & Rory are meant to be together.


Why?

#113

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 2:33 PM

Why What? Rory and Jess should be together? If that's the question well then I just feel they had better chemistry and much more in common. Plus even when they aren't together it looks as though they want to be. They were going through different things in their lives in S4-S6. But Rory will graduate from Yale soon and Jess has matured. It'll be a perfect time for them to reunite.

#114

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 2:43 PM

More chemistry between them than any other coupling. Same intellectual interests and level. And even after all the crap and hurt of their failed "romance", they seemed genuinely happy to see each other again in S6.

I think deep down they both know they are meant for each other, but as Jess put it - "It is what it is - you, me."

I'd like to see Rory unattached by the end of the series, so in my own fanwanking head, she and Jess finally get it right and are ready to be with each other.

#115

Editor Chick

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 3:55 PM

I’ve never hated Jess’s character (I actually go back and forth on whether or not I like him), and I found him and his relationship with Rory interesting, at times, but I just don’t agree that they are made for each other. People on these boards criticize those who like Lorelai/Chris because of their chemistry. Well, I feel the same about those who say that about Rory & Jess (chemistry is subjective, anyway - I see more chemistry with her and Logan).

I have never seen onscreen that they are “made for each other.” I’m probably opening up a can of worms with this comparison, but it really reminds me of Kevin Williamson’s comments on writing the finale of Dawson’s Creek. He said in interviews that he wanted to have Joey & Dawson end up together, but he just couldn’t make it work, because that is not the story the show had told. This is how I feel about Rory and Jess. Yes, they have chemistry because the actors had a relationship in real life, and they’ve always had a connection, and they have quite a few rabid fans who would be happy, but if they ended up together it would be unsatisfying for most of the audience.

The story they’ve told is that Rory was intrigued by Jess when she was dating Dean, ended up dating him for a few months, considered sleeping with him but didn’t, and he treated her badly, was nasty and rude to her family and friends, and left her to move across the country without saying anything. When he, twice, tried to re-initiate a romantic relationship with her, she rejected him. She never said she loved him. She hasn’t been shown pining for him. We’ve never seen her cry over him. There is nothing to indicate he is anything more than a guy she went out with for a few months when she was 17, and now she thinks of him fondly as an old friend. Even in their latest encounter, she rejected him because she knows she is in love with Logan, despite the fact that she was really angry with him. That is the story that has been on our screen. Unless Milo comes back to the show for a significant number of episodes and they come up with a really great story to convince me they are made for each other, I just will not buy it. And, at this point, I don’t think I could buy it under any circumstances, since most of Jess’s character development took place off-screen. Good writing is about set-ups and payoffs, and I just don’t see it being set up for her, under any circumstances, to end up with Jess.

On another note, people insist they have so much in common, but do they really? And what does that mean? They liked some of the same books and music. She has that with Logan, and, IMO, a lot more. They both grew up with single moms, but they were complete opposites. He never understood or respected Rory’s relationship with Lorelai, and never made much of an effort to get to know her. He’s also shown signs of being a judgmental snob about rich people, so he is unlikely to ever feel comfortable with the society world, which will always be a part of Rory’s life because of her family connections. I just don’t see him and his bohemian lifestyle fitting into her life as a professional Ivy League graduate for a number of reasons.

Anyway, my point is that the story I have seen told on my screen tells me Jess and Rory are not made for each other and will not end up together.

#116

domenica marie

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 4:06 PM

He’s also shown signs of being a judgmental snob about rich people, so he is unlikely to ever feel comfortable with the society world, which will always be a part of Rory’s life because of her family connections.



So you are writing off Luke and Lorelai also? L/L have nothing in common, and yet...to some fans they are meant to be, or at least to Amy they are.

Edited by domenica marie, Jun 25, 2006 @ 4:12 PM.


#117

petpluto22

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 4:29 PM

I have never seen onscreen that they are “made for each other.”

I haven't either. I don't think any two people, on this show or in real life, are made for each other- Luke and Lorelai excluded, of course. I would like it if Rory ended the series alone, ready to make her mark on the world without being with any one guy in particular. However, I have a fondness for Jess and Rory together. I understand the anger with the particular sentiment that chemistry makes a couple, and it really is completely subjective. However, I do feel as though Rory and Jess would be two of those people who dated for a while as teens, and then developed a close friendship in young adulthood. I think that with that foundation as mature adults, they could have a healthy, fulfilling (romantic or not) relationship.

I also have a hard time seeing Jess treating Rory all that badly. Jess was stupid. So was Rory. She didn't call him when he didn't call her. She never told him what she expected one of her boyfriends to act like. When Jess told Lorelai that Rory understood him, it was clear to me that Rory never told him that telling her he was going to call and then not was unacceptable. He may have then taken a "well, that is just who I am" route, or he may have shaped up and called her. But it seems that the problems that plagued their relationship are founded mostly in insecurities, insecurities they both seem to have grown through.

Editor Chick, I will tell you why I like Jess and Rory. I like them because they would go out to things like concerts, and yet also stay inside and rent movies and order Indian (or other food) and just hang. I loved their low-keyness. I loved that Jess would do things like look up the distance to Yale from Stars Hollow. Obviously, this is just a perspective thing, but I don't see the amount of affection regularly between Logan and Rory that I did with Jess and Rory. I like Logan, and I'm not wholly convinced Rory should ever be together forever with Jess, but on the whole, theirs was my favorite relationship.

ETA: Exactly, Taryn74. That is exactly how I feel about Jess, and partially why I love him.

Edited by petpluto22, Jun 25, 2006 @ 5:01 PM.


#118

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 4:58 PM

I loved that Jess would do things like look up the distance to Yale from Stars Hollow.


And - what stood out to me more - was that he didn't do it to show off what a great boyfriend he was and how lucky she was to be with him. He just did it. Like fixing the toaster and unlocking the diner so they could set up a wake for Luke's uncle and putting Rory's bracelet in her room so she would find it, he just did it without any pomp and circumstance. That's one of those subtle differences that made me like Jess more than Dean - everything Dean did had "notice me" undertones to it and that BUGGED the heck out of me.

Edited by Taryn74, Jun 25, 2006 @ 4:59 PM.


#119

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 5:24 PM

Also Logan always seemed to want to party with his friends. They all love Rory but Jess just seems to be geniuine and perfect for Rory. But it's opinion and perspective.

#120

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Posted Jun 25, 2006 @ 7:01 PM

Why?


Heh. I don't really know why, but I've just always loved Jess/Rory together. Yes, Jess was an ass in season three but he's improved so much, so I can just write that off to him being a teenager with a confusing past. And maybe I'm just biased when it comes to his character due to the fact that he and his relationship with Luke is the reason I started watching GG during season two.

I think it boils down to the fact that I loved both characters separately, before they were a couple. Just like Lorelai and Luke. Also I love how their separate personalities just meshed, but they still had so much in common. Growing up in a single parent home. Their father being absent. Their love of books and music. It was just so much that could have been worked at to create a juicy storyline for Rory, that didn't include changing her entire personality and stealing yachts. They still could have done that with Logan... Oy to Amy...

They just flow better together IMP. That makes no sense... The chemistry is just spot on between Alexis and Milo, which makes Jess/Rory seem so natural and the show just seemed to feel right during those episodes when Milo returned this season. I've never seen that with Alexis and any other guy on this show. I think Milo, LG, and EH/KB are the only ones where just natural chemistry flows.

Edited by BariLace, Jun 25, 2006 @ 7:07 PM.