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Jess and Rory


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#1

SkyJader

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 1:22 PM

Posted by marlaas in the Jess Thread:

I couldn't help but get that vibe as well. It was almost as if being around Jess made it clear to hear that she doesn't currently feel that same infatuation/spark/whatever for Jess that she does for Logan, but that she still cares for Jess too much to use him as retalliation against Logan. I don't *want* to believe that, because in my world Rory's in love with Jess and they eventually find a way to work things out (and in this same world Rory never even met Logan, whom I despise), but I have to admit that I didn't get that vibe from this week's episode. Oh, well...there's still time for Rory to wise up.
I have more to ramble about, but it would be more appropriate for an exclusively Rory-Jess thread.


It's been suggested, and I'm taking the heat!

Discuss!

#2

adina

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 1:42 PM

What are everyone's thoughts on a possible future for Jess and Rory? Especially in light of events during TRPA. Obviously, they are not in the same places in their lives. If they were to get back together, a lot has to happen - a lot needs to be discussed and they both need to stop running. Which I think Jess has - he's stopped running from everything, but Rory hasn't. And they need to deal with that. I don't want to see them together until she's got her shit together and they've both dealt with their communal shit together.

ETA: Felt like something was missing, something more needed to be said at the end of their scene in 6.18? Read Greater Than.

Edited by adina, Apr 13, 2006 @ 2:20 PM.


#3

tonsomoxie

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 2:01 PM

I think it would be possible, but only if they are at a very specific point in their lives.
When they were together before, it was good, but it wasn't great. He was a crappy boyfriend, but she loved him.
Now that they're grown up (well, Jess is, anyway) it could work out, but only if they want to be adults about their relationship.

#4

Dr B

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 3:37 PM

I think the potential is definitely there (for a future between Jess and Rory). Frankly, I think the only deterrent would be the writers' desire to keep Logan in the picture / any difficulties in getting Milo to sign up for further appearances. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he turned up a lot more toward the end of Season 7 as "the one". There is undeniable chemistry between the two of them - and there's never really been full closure in terms of their relationship. Even when Rory refused to run away with Jess when he came to her dorm room (I forget which season that was - 4 or 5?), she exhibited enough distress over the encounter to persuade me that she wasn't just sorry over having to send an old friend away.

Plus, with Jess's recent portrayal as a fully grown-up, well-adjusted individual, he is in the right place to be a good partner for Rory. This may contrast with Logan or whoever else Rory dates in the next season. I'm not dissing Logan - I can easily sail two ships simultaneously - but who knows how (or if) his character will evolve over the rest of this season and next season.

I agree with tonsomoxie - this time, Rory needs to be the one who is ready to approach their relationship on an adult level.

#5

SkyJader

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 3:49 PM

I really do feel as though that way Rory treated Jess was cruel in TRPA. Jess messed up ALOT when he was younger, but I never thought anything that he did was cruel. Does anyone think that Jess is going to be able to forgive Rory for what she did to him? Or, does this make it even?

Also, even though this episode angered me with Rory's treatment of Jess, it does seem as though to me that Jess was being redeemed/made to look better. (Not only in this episdoe, but also in LMHYBRO). This actually makes me think that a Jess/Rory matchup at the end of the show is still in the mind of ASP. Why you ask? This current turn of events has people feeling sympathy for Jess that may have had none for quite some time.

I can only wonder how Rory and Jess will meet again. I really don't view this as closure. All I have to do is watch the last picture of the scene with Jess' hurt face to think, oh my god, what's next?

One last thing for now:
When Jess tried to write it all off by saying it is what is (in my mind saying that they don't mean that much to each other), notice Rory's reaction? She knew that was a bunch of balony.

#6

bookgirl71

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 4:23 PM

When Jess tried to write it all off by saying it is what is (in my mind saying that they don't mean that much to each other), notice Rory's reaction? She knew that was a bunch of balony.


I saw this in a completely different light. When Jess said he wasn't sorry that Rory had come to Philly and, "this thing between us, it is what it it," I saw it as him acknowledging that there would always be this "thing" between them, meaning that it just wasn't the right time for them. But as I type this post, I'm beginning to wonder if he meant that he's not sorry she came, and this "thing," meaning Rory's admission, was no big deal and didn't change how he feels about her.

Does any of that make sense? I'll have to watch it again to see Rory's reaction.

Edited by bookgirl71, Apr 13, 2006 @ 4:24 PM.


#7

petpluto22

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 4:24 PM

Does anyone think that Jess is going to be able to forgive Rory for what she did to him? Or, does this make it even?

Personally, I don't think either one of them is actually keeping score. I also don't think that Jess is going to need to forgive her. I think that even though he was hurt, he understood why Rory did what she did, and told her that he "didn't deserve this" type of treatment. Right there, I think he got out his anger at her and just sort of accepted the situation.

And I agree with bookgirl. I think that they both acknowledge that there is still something between them, and they are able to depend on each other.

Edited by petpluto22, Apr 13, 2006 @ 4:26 PM.


#8

Taryn74

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 5:35 PM

What are everyone's thoughts on a possible future for Jess and Rory?


Well, I think unless someone else comes along that Jess just falls head over heels for, he is going to be to Rory what Luke was to Lorelai all these years - waiting for her to realize she really does love him and is ready to get past all her crap and be with him. (But I don't think Jess will be afraid to admit to himself he's waiting for her like Luke was.) I think "it is what it is" - he loves her, he may not like where she is at in her life at times but he will always love her, and he is willing to wait for her. I don't see him pining for her in a pathetic way though, just a deep knowledge that she's the one he wants to be with.

Just as Rory and Luke were the only two people who saw the potential in Jess, Jess was one of the only people who still saw the potential in Rory after her downward spiral. I think that means something.

#9

Shanti70

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 8:06 PM

Does anyone think that Jess is going to be able to forgive Rory for what she did to him? Or, does this make it even?


I think he forgave her as soon as he said that he didn't deserve that treatment and she apologized. I know this because he told her that she could tell Logan that they did something if she wanted to...that is something that let her know that he wasn't angry with her.

Jess and Rory will always have something. It may turn out to be just a deep affection and admiration, or it can turn into a lasting love, if Rory ever matures. I can see them, many years down the road after they both have burned through a few romances, coming together as only people that really care about each other can and realizing that they are each other's best fit.

#10

fulfilled

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 8:26 PM

*waves* Hi! I'm so glad to see this thread up! I've been hanging around all day, watching this thread, the Rory thread, and the Jess thread, and it's about time I said something.

I agree with Shanti--I think that Rory and Jess will always be something to each other. I think that they've had the connection and the potential for that "great love" ever since the beginning, but it's always been their issues that have kept them apart. First Jess, now Rory, have placed obstacles in the way, but it's not for a lack of spark, chemistry, compatability, caring, belief, or love towards each other.

I think that Rory outgrew Dean, and she has the potential to outgrow Logan, but I don't think that Rory and Jess would outgrow each other. If anything, they have always spurred each other on to grow, change, and be better people, and once they figure out how to communicate and deal with their issues, they will (speaking in faith, here!) be one of those couples that you look at, and you can't imagine either of them with anyone else. But that's the challenge, as many people have already mentioned. They need to deal with their issues and be at the starting point at the same time. After that, I think they would be beside each other to work through whatever came their way, but they need to start on a common ground that they don't have yet.

Or, does this make it even?

It was never, in my opinion, about getting even. That's not what Rory went to Philly for; that's not what Jess saw in it. She went because he was proud of him, and the evening got more intense than I think she had bargained for. He saw another chance, but when he realized that it wasn't really the open door he had thought, it wasn't about, "Well, now we've both screwed each other over; let's call it a day."

Do I think Jess would date someone else? Maybe. But I don't see him as the type to fall in love easily, and I don't see him opening himself up quickly. He has definitely softened and matured over the years, but there's still, I think, a guardedness to him that will always be there, even though he has overcome a lot of the barriers and walls the he set up. I think that Rory will always be in his mind and heart, and if he dates someone else, especially seriously, it wouldn't be for quite a while, and it would take him a long time to get to that point with whomever it was.

Does Rory still love Jess? Absolutely. I think that her being "in love" with Logan is real, but I think that it's also a matter of choice, and a decision based on, among other things, proximity and the fact that Jess hurt her very deeply, and she needed to move away from that for her own sanity. I think that she could easily "fall in love" with Jess again--it wouldn't take more than a few days with him to give her some serious conflict. I mean, look at what happened within the space of a few hours. I think that she could choose to stay with Logan, and she could love him, but I don't think that her feelings for Jess can be that easily dismissed.

Just as Rory and Luke were the only two people who saw the potential in Jess, Jess was one of the only people who still saw the potential in Rory after her downward spiral. I think that means something.

They have enough faith in each other, despite all the history between them, for each of them to go out and make a hard, life-altering change based primarily on the other's encouragement and opinion. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.

#11

tonsomoxie

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 9:05 PM

I think that if Rory hadn't been with Logan, there would have been a chance she wouldn't have even gone to Philedelphia.
Think about it: she goes 3 states away, maybe with the intention of cheating, but then realizes that this isn't who she is. She's not going to do that to Logan, no matter how much he deserves it. (I know she cheated WITH Dean, but that's sort of different, but now that I say it, not really extremely oppisites.)
Rory loves Jess, but she's just not sure which type of love it is.

YMMV, but that's just my opinion.

#12

bookgirl71

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Posted Apr 13, 2006 @ 9:20 PM

Great post fulfilled. You've stated it beautifully. Rory and Jess are both growing and changing a lot right now. I believe that one day they will both be ready to handle a loving and mature relationship with each other. Until then, I hope that Jess finds love along the way. He needs that (they both do, IMO) to continue to grow emotionally.

#13

SkyJader

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 1:05 AM

I think that she could easily "fall in love" with Jess again--it wouldn't take more than a few days with him to give her some serious conflict. I mean, look at what happened within the space of a few hours.


Jess and Rory need to be locked in a room together for a few days.

Oh, please Milo guest star more!!

#14

lazyslag

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 7:47 AM

I saw this in a completely different light. When Jess said he wasn't sorry that Rory had come to Philly and, "this thing between us, it is what it it," I saw it as him acknowledging that there would always be this "thing" between them, meaning that it just wasn't the right time for them. But as I type this post, I'm beginning to wonder if he meant that he's not sorry she came, and this "thing," meaning Rory's admission, was no big deal and didn't change how he feels about her.



I totally agree.

You can't beat the chemistry between these too.

#15

LL Freak

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 9:46 AM

Hey Lits!
I was so glad to see Jess/Rory again!
I also understood the "this thing between us, it is what it it" part like it just never get together in the right time.So sad cause they just belong together!How can Rory choose Logan over Jess.It's obvious she still has feelings for Jess.Poor Jess.so cute to tell her she could still tell Logan they did something.
like your post fulfilled

#16

fulfilled

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 1:41 PM

Until then, I hope that Jess finds love along the way. He needs that (they both do, IMO) to continue to grow emotionally.

I hope so for his sake, but not for the sake of my Lit heart. If Logan and Rory is putting me through this much turmoil, imagine what Jess with another girl would do!

I'm beginning to wonder if he meant that he's not sorry she came, and this "thing," meaning Rory's admission, was no big deal and didn't change how he feels about her.

That's what I took from it. That, and the fact that nothing between them is simple. It never has been, and why should it start being simple and predictable now? "It is what it is," in the sense that it has always been complicated and emotional and deeply personal, and he's learned to accept that.

And, you're right, bookgirl. It doesn't change how he feels about her. I think that Jess is too deeply invested in Rory for his feelings for her to change that quickly. His immediate reaction changed, obviously, to hurt, disappointment, and anger, but his underlying love and care for her won't go away that easily. If it hasn't yet, after all the other things they've gone through, it won't, just because she's with someone else.

I think "it is what it is" - he loves her, he may not like where she is at in her life at times but he will always love her, and he is willing to wait for her. I don't see him pining for her in a pathetic way though, just a deep knowledge that she's the one he wants to be with.

Exactly, Taryn. I think that "it is what it is" is a loaded statement, encompassing all this and more--it sums up, the best it can, their relationship. And while it may be vague and unspecific, it's the only way to define it.

#17

ciaobella

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:16 PM

Exactly, Taryn. I think that "it is what it is" is a loaded statement, encompassing all this and more--it sums up, the best it can, their relationship. And while it may be vague and unspecific, it's the only way to define it.


Perfectly said.

Is anyone else replaying their goodbye and Jess' offer to use him to get to Logan? The look on Jess face as the scene fades out is haunting. Both MV and SP can do "heart breaks into a million pieces as he looks at the girl" really really well.

#18

OyPoodles

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:23 PM

Is anyone else replaying their goodbye and Jess' offer to use him to get to Logan? The look on Jess face as the scene fades out is haunting. Both MV and SP can do "heart breaks into a million pieces as he looks at the girl" really really well.


WORD, bella. I've had the urge to comfort both on such an occasion. LOL

Seriously, if MV won't come back full time, I would at least like him back for the last episode of the series with the writers leaving us with the potential of R/J being together. I have always enjoyed them and think that he is a much better fit for her than Logan.

#19

SkyJader

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:42 PM

I really think this is more speculation than spoiler, but I'm still going to use tags.

In the tv guide podcast today, Ausiello and Angel commented on the who should Rory end up with? Both said Jess, that he is Rory's soulmate, but that is not going to happen. They agreed that they like Rory with Logan, but Logan is not Rory's soulmate. And, people don't always end up with their soulmates.

::SkyJader snobs::

I'm guessing this is a speculation about MV's actor availability.


#20

OyPoodles

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:43 PM

Thanks for that, SkyJader. I think they are right about the one part, but no one knows about the second.

I hope that at the very least MV will continue to make guest appearances on GG. I love Jess/Rory and Jess/Luke scenes. I would also like to see him patch things up with Lorelai once and for all.

#21

fulfilled

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:51 PM

I would also like to see him patch things up with Lorelai once and for all.

Me too, Poodles, me too. That, along with a scene of Rory and Luke discussing their long-lasting belief and pride in Jess, is something I would love to see.

And thanks for bringing that over, SkyJader. Absolutely right about the first part. No question. And as for the rest... we'll just have to wait and see.

Is anyone else replaying their goodbye and Jess' offer to use him to get to Logan? The look on Jess face as the scene fades out is haunting.

Over and over and over. That look, combined with everything we've been talking about re: "It is what it is," is heartbreaking. I think that Jess, in that moment, hates Logan more for hurting Rory than he's upset at Rory for hurting him. There's obviously a huge combination of emotions in Jess right then, but I got the feeling that, despite the way Rory had just acted, he was more sad for her than angry with her.

Edited by fulfilled, Apr 14, 2006 @ 2:51 PM.


#22

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 3:14 PM

I hope so for his sake, but not for the sake of my Lit heart. If Logan and Rory is putting me through this much turmoil, imagine what Jess with another girl would do!


Jess with another woman would definitely hurt, but the good news is that chances are we wouldn't have to see it. It can be an off-screen romance!

And, you're right, bookgirl. It doesn't change how he feels about her. I think that Jess is too deeply invested in Rory for his feelings for her to change that quickly. His immediate reaction changed, obviously, to hurt, disappointment, and anger, but his underlying love and care for her won't go away that easily. If it hasn't yet, after all the other things they've gone through, it won't, just because she's with someone else.


I agree. True affection can't easily be tossed aside. A wonderful illustration of this, IMO, is when Jess asked her where she was parked. He was upset, but he was not going to let her be in a potentially dangerous situation. I thought that was a wonderfully telling touch. And then he turned around and offered up his virtue, too ...

Is anyone else replaying their goodbye and Jess' offer to use him to get to Logan? The look on Jess face as the scene fades out is haunting. Both MV and SP can do "heart breaks into a million pieces as he looks at the girl" really really well.


Yes. I've watched it a bunch. In fact, it's the only part of the ep. that I've watched over and over. Jess always has that effect on me though. The guy just shakes up everything!

#23

ciaobella

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 3:22 PM

I think that Jess, in that moment, hates Logan more for hurting Rory than he's upset at Rory for hurting him. There's obviously a huge combination of emotions in Jess right then, but I got the feeling that, despite the way Rory had just acted, he was more sad for her than angry with her.


Yes! And I took his offer to tear his heart out and let her use him as the most selfless expression of love he could give her right now. He would do anything to take away her hurt even if it meant sacrificing his pride. Maybe he felt like he owed her that much after the way he mistreated her when they were younger.

I'd say they were even.

Also......who knows what will happen next season. MV said he'd be open to returning once or twice a year, just not as a full time cast member....

#24

fulfilled

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Posted Apr 14, 2006 @ 3:29 PM

And I took his offer to tear his heart out and let her use him as the most selfless expression of love he could give her right now. He would do anything to take away her hurt even if it meant sacrificing his pride.

And not only was he sacrificing his pride; he was giving it up over the one thing that he had never gotten to experience with her. No, he didn't explicitly say, "You can tell him that we slept together," but that was the impression that I got from it.

In a way, he was giving up the chance for a romantic, sweet story of their (as yet nonexistant) first time in order to try and alleviate her hurt.

ETA: BTW, for all the discussions about the "it's what it is" comment, we haven't really discussed the fact that the whole line actually goes:

RORY: I'm so sorry I came here.

JESS: I'm not. It's what it is--you, me


Anyone care to pick apart the "I'm not"?

Edited by fulfilled, Apr 15, 2006 @ 2:44 PM.


#25

FreakOut

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Posted Apr 16, 2006 @ 4:59 PM

Anyone care to pick apart the "I'm not"?


I'll attempt to do Jess justice! It'll be in ramblings, though . . .

I think that the main reason Jess wasn't sorry she came was because he first and foremost wanted Rory back as a friend. When he sent the invitation to her, of course there must have been some hope to rekindle their romantic relationship in the back of his mind, but after seeing Rory in LMHYBRO and the state she was in, I don't think that was at the top of his list because he could see that Rory changed into a very un-Rory person. In fact, I don't think Jess really became open to thinking of a relationship with her again until she said that she had "fixed everything", because he obviously thought this included Logan. By thinking that she had broken up with Logan, Jess must have thought that Rory changed for the better and was herself again. This must have really appealed to him, so not recieving any "Stop!" signals from Rory, he proceeded into what he thought they both wanted. Maybe a part of the "I'm not" was because he was glad they had kissed again, even though it was brief and ill-intended on Rory's part. But I think that Jess just wanted to reconnect again with the real Rory, not the one he encountered 10 episodes ago.

Another reason Jess could have said '"I'm not" is because maybe (and it kills me to say this), Rory coming and shooting him down helped Jess come closer to closure with Rory. Her telling Jess that she loves Logan and couldn't cheat on him like he did her might have pushed Jess to the realization that he and Rory may never be on the same page, and that it might be easier to just let go now, rather than hold onto this idea of them reuniting, when she obviously doesn't want to.

If this is true, if Jess has surrendered to closure, then I spit on Rory. Stupid, stupid Rory.

You know what I'm fearing is in the near future for Logan and Rory? A wedding, or at least a proposal. I don't think that the series finale will end with a Luke/Lorelai, Logan/Rory double wedding, and I most certainly don't think Logan is the one, but I can just see a drunk Logan proposing to Rory. And Rory, still in shock from Logan's accident and not wanting to lose him, accepting. This is pure speculation and off the Jess topic, sorry!

#26

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Posted Apr 16, 2006 @ 7:03 PM

I'll take a stab at an analysis too. I took Jess's "I'm not" to mean just that: He is never sorry to see Rory and connect with her on any level. I really believe (especially at this point) that Jess is just happy to be with Rory. The opportunity to interact with her and show her that her faith in him was justified is, IMO, more important to Jess than the possibility of hooking up with Rory. And just to clarify, I don't think a simple hook up is what he'd want from her anyway. He'd definitely want more, and I think he understands that it may not (if ever) be the right time for them.

#27

adina

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Posted Apr 17, 2006 @ 10:22 AM

Jess "I'm not". I think truly, he was not sorry she came. They got a chance to talk, he got a chance to see that she's happy, at least partly, and that means a lot to him. He cares about her, and no matter how much she hurt him in that moment, that's not going to go away.

"It's what it is." Unlike certain other situations, the idea of JessandRory will always be complicated. Some missed chances, some decisions that possibly weren't the best at the time, some hurt feelings, some broken hearts. Soul mates? I think so. But what they will never be is simple.

#28

FreakOut

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Posted Apr 17, 2006 @ 1:32 PM

But what they will never be is simple.


ITA. I think the reason behind that is because what Rory and Jess share is so intense. Their emotions were always in extremes when it came to each other; they never felt "meh-ish".

Rory and Jess have always had unfinished business. When Jess was sent to New York, Rory chased him, and she finally had her goodbye. But Jess followed her back to Stars Hollow, left Stars Hollow, came back to tell her he loves her, left, came back to her to show her his new life . . . and through all that Jess didn't believe that they were done yet, either, otherwise he wouldn't have kissed her. In a way, their relationship reminds me of Ross and Rachel's (of Friends - buh!): with them, it's never off the table. Rory must know this, but whether or not she'll accept it and do something about it is another thing. Jess is more than willing to try again, but when, if ever, will Rory?

Question: If Rory and Logan never got back together, or never even met, do you think she would give her and Jess another shot?

I think she definately would have, because I see the only thing in the way of the R&J ship is the Logan iceberg.

#29

fulfilled

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Posted Apr 17, 2006 @ 2:09 PM

If Rory and Logan never got back together, or never even met, do you think she would give her and Jess another shot?

Absolutely, but maybe it would have been more of an eventuality. I can see Rory still being scared of being hurt by Jess again, and being wary of going into things, but I can see her eventually giving him a chance. And, on Jess' part, I can see him sticking around more to let her give him a chance, rather than saying "I love you" and running.

If, say, Rory had broken up with Logan for real after LMHYBRO, and things had still gone the way they did in TRPA, I think that the difference would have been that Rory may still have pulled away from the kiss (or backed off from going any further after the kiss), but it wouldn't have been because "I'm in love with Logan;" it would have been because "I need to know I can trust you again." That, in my opinion, opens up a whole new set of doors, and I think that if that was the case, Jess would have been more than willing to take the time with her to figure it out again.

That's just one scenario, though--I think that if Logan wasn't in the picture at all, it would have been another story altogether... but yes, the fact remains that I think there would be another shot without Logan there.

#30

adina

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Posted Apr 17, 2006 @ 3:10 PM

I think she definately would have, because I see the only thing in the way of the R&J ship is the Logan iceberg.

I respectfully disagree. I think that is something in the way, but not the only thing. I think the main thing that's in the way of the R&J ship is Rory herself.

Oh, and I second everything fulfilled said. Shocker, huh?

Edited by adina, Apr 17, 2006 @ 3:12 PM.