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Worst of Friends: Your Least Favorite Moments


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#3241

TimeMonkey

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Posted May 28, 2012 @ 7:27 PM

And to make it worse, the lesson he seems to learn at the end is rendered pointless in the finale when he begs her to stay despite knowing how much see really wants to do this!
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#3242

manbearwig

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Posted May 28, 2012 @ 10:03 PM

Another least favorite moment. The way Emily was treated. Back in 1998, in all my 13 year old fan girl glory, I thought Emily was an evil bitch for coming between Ross and Rachel, but now I'm firmly team Emily. I never thought Emily did anything wrong. Ross said Rahcel's name, she was in their honeymoon suite when her parents came to see Ross, she saw Ross leaving with Rachel to go on their honeymoon, did they really think she would be ok with Rachel being around?


Exactly! Count me in on being a member of Team Emily. The writers made her nice and sympathetic in Season 4, and I like that Rachel was finally on good terms with Ross' SO then, but suddenly Emily became Evil Controlling Bitch in Season 5 and it was just so lazy of the writers to take her there. Ross, being a main character, could get away with his irrational jealousy in Seasons 1-3, but an outider couldn't.

Emily telling Ross to move, get rid of everything Rachel touched, and to cut off ties with her was crossing a line and because of that I'm glad R/E ended. But the writers could have had Emily's relatives be all demanding and eevil while Emily's hurt and unable to trust Ross, or they could have had the wedding go smoothly and then had Ross and Emily realize they didn't really know each other, got married too fast, then have an amicable divorce.

And to make it worse, the lesson he seems to learn at the end is rendered pointless in the finale when he begs her to stay despite knowing how much see really wants to do this!


Agreed. That didn't surprise me because the writers always made Ross go one step forward, five steps back with Rachel, but to me his appearance at the airport should have been the final wake up call Rachel needed to go to Paris. I'm sure her decision in the finale gave her a future line to use every time she and Ross would have a fight: "I gave up Paris for you!" which would only make both of them increasingly resentful and bitter. It really frustrates me, even years later, that a quick happy ending to R/R's 'romance' (sorry but I can't see it as a true romance) and Ross' happiness overshadowed Rachel's happiness and a decade's worth of development.
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#3243

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 11:20 PM

Another least favorite moment. The way Emily was treated. Back in 1998, in all my 13 year old fan girl glory, I thought Emily was an evil bitch for coming between Ross and Rachel, but now I'm firmly team Emily. I never thought Emily did anything wrong. Ross said Rahcel's name, she was in their honeymoon suite when her parents came to see Ross, she saw Ross leaving with Rachel to go on their honeymoon, did they really think she would be ok with Rachel being around?

Then they end it with Ross actually having the nerve to lecture Emily about marriage needing trust. This right after he humiliates her by announcing he broke his promise on speaker phone with all his friends there. Sadly, the writers seemed to think we should agree with him.

I wonder what we were supposed to think when later Ross found out she got engaged (married?) to her old boyfriend. Somehow, I don't think we were supposed to consider it a good thing. In the end, it was best that she got away from Ross and found happiness. It's unfortunate that Rachel didn't do the same.
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#3244

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Posted May 30, 2012 @ 9:30 PM

Two quickies -

I don't find the humor in Monica accidentally sleeping with a high school student. It's super squicky and made me uncomfortable.

Also gross is Phoebe pulling tissues out of the trash. I suppose it's the best way for her to stumble on the pregnancy test but still. Ew.
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#3245

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Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 3:29 PM

And the writers kept telling me Ross was such a wonderful and noble guy with Rachel (yeah it's SO sweet and romantic the way he barged into her office during her work crisis so he could force a picnic on her, then years later he stayed secretly married to her against her will,) and Rachel had to want/love him back (mostly in season finales or premieres,) because well she owed it to him, the Nice Guy deserved his prize. As far as I'm concerned, the writers weaseled out at the end by turning confident, independent, and ambitious Rachel into a codependent cardboard cutout whose dreams and career suddenly didn't matter anymore. Because Ross' high school fantasy coming true was much more important. To me their ending will never not be disturbing.

I agree with everything you've said, except that I was really bothered by Rachel moving to Paris in the first place, because of Emma. Regardless of whether she and Ross ever got back together (and I was profoundly indifferent by the time of the finale), they had a child together, and I thought moving across the ocean to another continent was a really crappy and selfish thing to do. Not only to Ross, by making it exceedingly difficult to see his daughter, but to Emma herself -- she deserved to grow up with her father in her life.

I know that makes me old-fashioned, but I really feel the child should come first. Which isn't to say Rachel could not have a career or ever make decisions which put herself first, but moving so far away would have been too much. Especially since she could further her career in NYC, too. There are scenarios I could come up with where it would be best to move so far away, but I don't think this one was. (And for the record, I felt the same way about Ross when they raised the question of him moving to England; I don't remember what he ultimately decided either before or after the wedding, but I would have been very angry at him if he moved so far away from Ben.)
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#3246

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Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 3:56 PM

Ross said he couldn't move to England without Ben, and suggested Emily move to New York. She said "it would be different if we were getting married or something..." Hence the wedding. And I agree it was crappy of Rachel to just presume she could take her child across the ocean away from her other parent.
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#3247

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Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 8:17 PM

She didn't presume. She came to Monica's apartment, told them about the job offer, asked Ross if it was okay and then agreed to it. She even said the company had agreed to fly her back and him out whenever they wanted so he could stay in Emma's life.
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#3248

manbearwig

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Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 8:24 PM

I appreciate the agreement about R/R, but I don't think it was crappy and selfish of Rachel because whether it was realistic or not, her new company would fly Rachel and Emily back whenever they wanted to visit Ross. They weren't going to Venus, it's not like Ross would never see her again, and it was 2004, around the time video chatting would soon become a thing. If Rachel went to Paris and wanted to stay, Emma could have eventually been given the option of moving or going back home for summer vacations. I don't believe all kids have to be raised by two parents or they'll be screwed up for life, for example Rachel and Monica IMO would have been much better off if they were only raised by one parent.

I'd be more critical of Rachel if she didn't ask for Ross' input, and if I didn't feel like her being stuck with Ross (whether as in a couple or not) would fuck up their daughter like her parents did to her. And Ross barely seemed to care about Emma leaving in the last few episodes because the writers wanted to make R/R the focus instead of Emma. The argument to me didn't come off as "Rachel should put her child first", it was more like "Rachel should put her babydaddy first."

And in the end, she did. Rachel threw away her career for Ross and her kid got to stay around him (except Emma was with Rachel's mom, and probably would be for some time while R/R caught up on all the sex they missed out on,) and Rachel stopped being 'selfish'. Instead she became Ross' jobless blow up doll. So romantic!

Edited by manbearwig, Jun 6, 2012 @ 9:07 PM.

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#3249

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Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 10:24 PM

The Rachel/London story is treated much the same as the Phoebe/Monica soulmate story by fans.Whether it's due to syndication cuts or just the scenario the fans seem to end up so indignant over the situation they fail to notice the friend in question didn't actually do the thing they're being accused of.
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#3250

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 6:22 AM

Heh that's true, Phoebe introducing Monica to her soulmate seems to constantly come up as a really crappy thing to do to her friend Chandler, but from what I remember the episode itself never saw Phoebe make a point of introducing them, she just noted that she had met a guy who she found really similar to Monica and she thought he could be her soulmate, and then she did feel genuinally bad when the two of them accidentally met and really hit it off. But many people seem to remember it as Phoebe deliberately match-making them?
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#3251

cometsparkey17

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 4:52 PM

I think it's more that Pheobe even SAYS that someone else is Monica's soulmate that is the problem. It was just unnecessary. It was bad enough that they pulled the Richard card so much(which I think belittled Monica a lot more than Chandler). Had Joey or Ross come in and said "I just met Chandler's soulmate! it would have went over like a lead balloon. Even worse if CHandler said he met Mike's soulmate. But we are supposed to yuk it up because it's "fun to kick Chandler in the nuts". :p

I also hated the "Monica calls Chandler Richard" thing from TOIB. Oh, please. Are we supposed to buy that? Monica had her choice and she chose(wisely) Chandler. The END. It just makes Monica look pathetic.
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#3252

TimeMonkey

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 6:38 PM

The thing about Monica calling Chandler Richard is just Phoebe lieing to try and cover her ass.
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#3253

cometsparkey17

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 7:45 PM

I thought Monica confirmed it with "At least you took me down with you" and "My feelings for Richard are certainly gone"
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#3254

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 7:49 PM

I was watching some eps in syndication this week and TOW Old Yeller Dies, I hate the way Ross and Rachel's first I love yous pan out. While I dislike the totally unromantic way Ross says, "I'm going to kiss you now," I really detest the way Rachel says, "Well, you better." It's something in her tone that always has bugged me. I get that they were supposed to be kind of frazzled/surprised with their own admissions, but it just sounds weird and clipped.
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#3255

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 9:06 PM

Rachel asked Ross about Paris but it whenever I see those scenes it comes across to me like she has already made her decision and expects him to go along with it. He wasn't any better though because his entire issue with her moving seemed to be about her leaving him and not that his daughter would be across the ocean. Contrast that to how he reacted when Emily said if you want this marriage to work you have to move to London. He refused because of Ben.

Really the last episode wasn't kind to my favorites, Chandler and Monica, either. Well actually I should say the plot. They got what they had wanted for so long but it was so rushed and illogical that I felt almost nothing. The only moment that got me was when Monica was telling Chandler that she doesn't care if the entire cast of "Eight is Enough" comes out of there those were their children. Then the ridiculousness began.
- Erica had the babies. Chandler and Monica brought them home the same day - something that rarely happens in regular births let alone adoptions where most states have a 3 day waiting period.
- Once they get the twins home Chandler goes across the hall (after doing some packing) to help look for chick and duck instead of doing what most parents do - want to spend every moment around their newborns.
- Then Monica leaves the hours old newborns alone across the hall (she has a baby monitor) and takes the time to tear apart the Foosball table.

Like I said rushed and illogical and lacking in heart.

Edited by Binks, Jun 7, 2012 @ 9:41 PM.

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#3256

TimeMonkey

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:20 PM

I want to ask a question in all seriousness. What does the ocean matter if they can be flown back and forth at their whim? Ross would be splitting time with Emma anyway.
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#3257

aquarian1

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:39 PM

Because flying back and forth "on a whim" is still 10 hours, each way, at best. 5-6 hour flight, plus getting there 2 hours early, plus commute, plus time difference, etc, etc, etc. It's not something you'd do every weekend. You'd only get a day to visit, if that. ETA: not to mention getting time off work and coordinating schedules...

And no matter where Ross ended up (USA or France) one child would feel like he preferred the other - no matter what he said or did. Even if they could intellectually know better, it'd still be like "Dad lives in the USA with Ben..." (or vise versa) I think it really was an impossible choice. However, I agree, the show didn't make it about that.

Edited by aquarian1, Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:51 PM.

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#3258

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 11:07 PM

Exactly. It is at least a 6 hour plane ride which is not the same thing as splitting time between two homes in one city. I felt like the show treated the issue much too casually starting with how Rachel seemed to already have made the decision without talking over the implications concerning Emma with Ross and then continuing with how Ross' sole concern seemed to be that Rachel was moving away not Emma. A decision like that (moving a child across country or across the ocean from a parent) should be made with a lot more thought and discussion than either Ross or Rachel gave it. It also should have included a custody sharing agreement more concrete than "I'll fly back and forth, they'll fly you out... Anything we want." BOTH Ross' and Rachel's blase attitude toward how the move was going to affect Emma actually led to me not giving a dang about their ending. Then the ridiculousness of the plot surrounding the twin's birth just added to the blahness of the final episode.

Edited by Binks, Jun 8, 2012 @ 12:17 AM.

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#3259

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Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 1:14 PM

I want to ask a question in all seriousness. What does the ocean matter if they can be flown back and forth at their whim? Ross would be splitting time with Emma anyway.


I always thought that Rachel saying they wanted her to come work for them so badly that they'd fly her and Ross back and forth whenever they wanted was absurd. No company spends money so frivolously, not even back when the finale aired/was filmed. They might have given her a travel allowance to use however she wanted, but they would never make it as open-ended as she made it sound.

It always annoyed me that none of the friends ever bothered to find out about Chandler's job. He was always just some random corporate drone. I know it was kind of a running joke, but really, if your 5 best friends had absolutely no idea what you did for a living, and never expressed any interest in finding out, wouldn't that really piss you off?? Of course you wouldn't bore them with minute details, but a general understanding would be nice!
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#3260

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Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 4:23 PM

I never thought it was that weird that they didn't understand Chandler's job. I've asked my best friend about 10 times what she does and her job is so specific that she can't even really describe it. I know she works for the university, in an office that does some sort of educational contracts with school districts around the country, but that's it. She's tried to explain it herself, and that's the best she can come up with.

I always assumed Chandler wasn't able to really describe his job either. And he didn't like it himself, so his description of what it was probably wasn't interesting enough to remember.
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#3261

MarkMan

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 10:03 AM

She didn't presume. She came to Monica's apartment, told them about the job offer, asked Ross if it was okay and then agreed to it. She even said the company had agreed to fly her back and him out whenever they wanted so he could stay in Emma's life.


To me it was always more of "This is what is happening", than "I'm actually needing your opinion on deciding this". She presumed it would be ok to take Emma, that's why there was never any "So who does Emma stay wth?" type of conversation. The assumption held by Rachel was always that Emma would be with her.

I want to ask a question in all seriousness. What does the ocean matter if they can be flown back and forth at their whim? Ross would be splitting time with Emma anyway.


Seriously?

It matters because his child is on another continent. his child is very, very, very, very far away.

Edited by MarkMan, Jun 10, 2012 @ 10:03 AM.

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#3262

TimeMonkey

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 11:36 AM

The show pretty much always showed it as Rachel having primary custody so there was no need for such a discussion. And if you're only seeing your daughter occasionally anyway does it really matter where it is? Ross burned his 'seeing Emma all the time' bridges when his behaviour drove Rachel to move out. And while Ross isn't one to deliberately move away from his children he also doesn't strike me as the type who would fight for custody unless absolutely necessary. As long as he's still in their lives Ross seems fine with allowing the mothers to do their own thing. Sure, it would have been interesting to see how they handled that situation but they didn't meake an issue of it.



To me it was always more of "This is what is happening", than "I'm actually needing your opinion on deciding this". She presumed it would be ok to take Emma, that's why there was never any "So who does Emma stay wth?" type of conversation. The assumption held by Rachel was always that Emma would be with her.



I disagree,to me clear it's what she wanted to do but it still looks like she was asking permission.
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#3263

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 12:23 PM

There wasn't a need for a discussion about primary custody but there was a need for a more concrete discussion about visitation. I actually thought a more concrete discussion about visitation was needed and a legal agreement put into place back when they decided not to live together anymore. The fact that none of that came up as she was moving out was another worst moment to me.

I also didn't like that she moved back in with Joey and none of them seemed bothered by that. Not Joey who having a woman and a child would put a serious cramp in his single life. Not Rachel who had to realize her and Emma sharing a bedroom at that apartment wasn't going to be feasible for very long. Not Ross who seemed to have no issue with the living arrangements either.

I also disagree that it was all on him that she moved out. They both made some mistakes there both in deciding to live together and in deciding not to anymore. Things like how will the logistics of dating others work should have been discussed. It boils down to me that Emma never seemed their primary concern when it came to dealing with each other. Most all of my worst moments in the final seasons involve her being an afterthought to their ongoing drama with each other. Every time their romantic conflict arose I always thought don't you two share a child together? Shouldn't she be your primary concern?

Given how unaffected Chandler and Monica seemed about their hours old twins in the final (another worst moment) it seems to me that the writers just didn't know how to incorporate kids into the show unless it was as a shared custody type thing with someone outside of the six of them. Because of that I think they never should have gone the Rachel is pregnant route. The worst moments (the hospital not proposal, the ever changing living arrangements, the contrived Emma is with my mom so they didn't have to actually deal with her presence) far outweigh the best moments (the wind up toy race, the videotape).

Edited by Binks, Jun 10, 2012 @ 12:32 PM.

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#3264

MarkMan

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 12:24 PM

The show pretty much always showed it as Rachel having primary custody so there was no need for such a discussion.


Having primary custody when you both live in NYC is one thing, however she was moving to another continent, that changes everything. So I think Ross should have been challenging that. The fact that he didnt seem overally bothered I chalk up to bad wriitng.

You and I are clearly going to disgaree on the other point, so I shall say no more.
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#3265

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 12:50 PM

. Not Joey who having a woman and a child would put a serious cramp in his single life.



Joey never wanted her to move out in the first place and only encouraged her to do so for Ross' sake.

Not Rachel who had to realize her and Emma sharing a bedroom at that apartment wasn't going to be feasible for very long. Not Ross who seemed to have no issue with the living arrangements either.

I disagree here, neither Ross nor Rachel appeared happy about Rachel moving out but they seemed to both agree that it was necessary. That whole situation was a time bomb waiting to go off.




I tend to believe the discussions about visitation and when Ross would get to keep Emma all happened off screen. I mean, come on, it was the last couple episodes they had better things to spend time on than discussing Emma. The show was about the Friends and their relationships so it's natural for the last story arc to focus on that and just let us assume that the details were discussed off screen.
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#3266

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 2:07 PM

Joey not realizing what a cramp on his single life that having a baby live with him was another worst moment to me. I realize he never wanted her to move out but I always thought it was unrealistic that it never became an issue once she and Emma moved back in. It felt like they had her move back in so they could contrivedly keep the Friends (save Phoebe) living in close proximity to each other.

That whole situation was a time bomb waiting to go off.

As was Rachel and Emma living with a single guy who had many a ONS coming through the apartment. Rachel and Emma needed to leave Ross' but them moving in with Joey always seemed like trading one time bomb for another.

I tend to believe the discussions about visitation and when Ross would get to keep Emma all happened off screen.

And that is what made almost all of the Emma stuff a "worst moment" for me. Because those are too big of details for me to leave to assumption. Not dealing with those issues on screen took me right out of the story they were trying to tell. If they never wanted to write Emma in with some semblance of realism they should have never made Rachel pregnant. Specifically if they didn't want to deal with the Emma custody issue with some semblance of realism they should have never written the Rachel is moving to Paris plot. They should have built up to the contrived Ross/Rachel reunion in the finale some other way.

Edited by Binks, Jun 10, 2012 @ 2:14 PM.

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#3267

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 2:17 PM

I never understood why Rachel never got her own apartment. I guess that could be another worst moment, the constant apartment hopping. It was obvious that Rachel made a pretty good salary at Ralph Lauren, I saw no reason why she needed to live with someone. Even Phoebe, a freelance massage therapist, could afford to live on her own, then I'm sure a Ralph Lauren executive could afford to as well
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#3268

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

Joey says that if he wants to have one night stands he can just go back to her place, or do it in the bathroom of the club so the issue was already addressed.


I think Rachel just liked living with a friend and maybe she couldn't find a place nearby.
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#3269

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 7:23 PM

A lot of this Emma discussion is predicated on this being a real child that its parents care about, as opposed to a random sitcom contrivance meant to bring its star-crossed parents together. For me, everything to do with Emma is the worst of Friends.
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#3270

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 7:40 PM

Joey says that if he wants to have one night stands he can just go back to her place, or do it in the bathroom of the club so the issue was already addressed.


I don't consider that really addressing it at all. He is a grown man who will have women around from time to time and I can't imagine that would work out well for him and said women or Rachel/Emma. This was once again a case where something as life changing as living with a child needed more than a sentence or two of discussion.

But like Yogurt Baron said Emma was a plot point contrivance from beginning to end so almost everything to do with her was part of the worst of friends starting with how Rachel being pregnant with her became the focus of Chandler and Monica's wedding going all the way through to the end where Rachel moving overseas with her was treated as an afterthought.

Edited by Binks, Jun 10, 2012 @ 7:44 PM.

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