25 replies to this topic

[cutecouple]

Numbered by DVD/original intended order.

One of the prettiest ones, and, for those fortunate few, source of one of the funnier outtakes from this show. It was the last episode filmed, which shows a little bit. Great opening bit with the fetus thingy. Source of Jayne's cunning hat, as well as that last stand bit where River shows some scary ass shooting ablity. Not so sure about the core story though.

[theobviouschild]

Source of Jayne's cunning hat

I loved that hat so much, and I wished Janye had worn it again. I just got this wonderful mental image of MommyJayne sitting at home knitting an adorable and cunning hat for her gargantuan son, and it made me feel very warm and fuzzy.

[iwantsleep]

I think the ep with the last stand bit is "War stories."

[sailorwind]

as well as that last stand bit where River shows some scary ass shooting ablity.

That was War Stories. The end of The Message was the extremely poignent funeral scene for Tracy in the snow with the amazingly heartwrenching background score. That scene makes me sob every time, and I didn't even LIKE Tracy, but it really felt like a goodbye for the show and not him. Which makes sense, considering it was filmed last and everyone was wrapping.

[inalasahl]

This was hands-down my least favorite episode. I really like all the beginning stuff on the space station, but I hated the way the Tracey plot was handled. I didn't find it believable. It's basically the same misunderstanding over again as between Mal and Simon in "Bushwhacked," yet instead of just explaining Mal lets Wash get shot and Kaylee taken hostage.

[petpluto22]

t's basically the same misunderstanding over again as between Mal and Simon in "Bushwhacked," yet instead of just explaining Mal lets Wash get shot and Kaylee taken hostage.

I actually didn't have a problem with Mal not explaining his plan to Tracey. Aside from the fact that Tracey himself had brought trouble to Mal and his ship, what was most important at that moment was inacting the plan, even if it meant not smoothing some ruffled feathers. Would Tracey have not acted badly if he actually knew what the plan was? Probably not. But at that moment, the crew had little idea how much time they had to enact their plan, and any time wasted explaining could have been better used.

Mal in his line of work depends on his crew and the people he takes in to believe in him and trust him. Without that, if he had to explain the reasoning behind every action and plan, he probably feels he would not be an efficient captain. He needs to be able to think quickly, bark orders, and have his orders obeyed, even if his crew does not necessarily understand them, in order to survive.

[isleofsofa]

I just wanted to say a few things about this episode. I don't think Mal owed Tracy any kind of explanation as to what the plan was (though I fully concede that had he done that Tracy might have acted differently). Tracy wasn't part of the crew so there was nothing he needed to do in the plan so there was nothing that he needed to know right at that moment. Tracy overreacted when he heard only part of the plan (you would think that having served with Mal he would have a little more faith in him than that, he had enough faith in Mal to mail his "dead" body to him and Zoe) plus there was not enough time to explain to Tracy that he was acting like an ass.

All that being said, I was not overly upset when Tracy got shot, but when Zoe finished that quote (which I can't even think about without tearing up) there was nothing but tears. A couple weeks later when my boyfriend watched the episode and it got to that point I actually had to leave the room before I heard it so I could try to contain myself. It didn't work because I just replayed the scene in my head and started the waterworks and then had to try to regain control of myself before I went back in the room (conveniently after the scene where they return to the planet and give the body and the recorder to Tracy's parents).

[sailorwind]

I agre Mal didn't owe Tracy an explanation, but the guy was waving a gun around threatening Wash and then took Kaley hostage. Would it really have been too much for Mal to say "We're not handing you over, we have a plan." Rather than the whole "You brought this all down on yourself involving me and mine in your business" speech? It would have saved them some time in the end.

I loved that as much history as Zoe had with Tracy and as much as she seemed to like him and consider him a friend, she hesitated not at all in shooting his ass when her husband was in danger. Yeah, Zoe!

[petpluto22]

I agre Mal didn't owe Tracy an explanation, but the guy was waving a gun around threatening Wash and then took Kaley hostage. Would it really have been too much for Mal to say "We're not handing you over, we have a plan." Rather than the whole "You brought this all down on yourself involving me and mine in your business" speech? It would have saved them some time in the end.

As much as I love Mal, there are times when the guy is less inclined to be unemotional and logical. I definitely can see where, after Tracey had smuggled himself onto Serenity, stolen organs, and brought a lot of trouble to Mal when he had to avoid it (because of River and Simon), he would snap and not even think to placate the bastard who after all of this held a gun on his mechanic. I'd be swearing at that point.

"We have a plan" is probably something Mal could have said, but, as isleofsofa said, Tracey already trusted Mal enough to send his 'dead' body to him and Zoe. Tracey, in all honesty, should have had more trust in Mal. And, he should have known better than to pull a gun on Kaylee and Wash and expect Mal to react well. I think Mal's real point was that Tracey, after putting Mal on the defensive with the Alliance, actually had the nerve to threaten his crew.

[sailorwind]

I also would have been pissed, but I would have rather pissily said "Stop being an idiot, I don't intend to hand you over" than stand there with my hands up while he's thratening to shoot my pilot spewing some self righteous mumbo jumbo that, while it may be justified, is causing more trouble. Tracy's idiocy and not thinking with his head don't excuse Mal's, who we've seen be much smarter in much tougher and more emotional situations.

[petpluto22]

Tracy's idiocy and not thinking with his head don't excuse Mal's, who we've seen be much smarter in much tougher and more emotional situations.

But as we've seen, Mal doesn't generally explain his plan of action, especially in a situation like this one. He probably feels that he doesn't need to, and while that is the weakest aspect of his leadership, I don't expect Mal to change his style for one person, especially when that person has pissed him off. At that point, I think Mal was frustrated, on edge, and just fed up. He should have been moving to defuse the situation, but since he handled Simon in "Bushwhacked" the same way, I don't think that explaining anything to Tracey had occurred to him.

[sailorwind]

At that point, I think Mal was frustrated, on edge, and just fed up. He should have been moving to defuse the situation, but since he handled Simon in "Bushwhacked" the same way, I don't think that explaining anything to Tracey had occurred to him.

You're right, I forgot he did handle Simon the exact same way in Bushwacked. Only that time, when Book said "Listen to the man, son." the irate person listened instead of taking a hostage. I guess it is more in his nature, but it still bugs me every time I see this episode because you know that if he'd have just said that simple sentence of "we're not going to turn you in", Mal wouldn't have had to shoot him later and then I wouldn't have to sit through that funeral scene with the absolutely heartbreaking musical score.

[Sandman]

That scene makes me sob every time, and I didn't even LIKE Tracy, but it really felt like a goodbye for the show and not him. Which makes sense, considering it was filmed last and everyone was wrapping.

I also wonder now if that scene counts as foreshadowing.

At that point, I think Mal was frustrated, on edge, and just fed up. He should have been moving to defuse the situation, but since he handled Simon in "Bushwhacked" the same way, I don't think that explaining anything to Tracey had occurred to him.

I think you're right. Mal's never been all that interested in explaining himself to anyone else. His actions ought to speak for him, I would say. But I wonder, too, if part of Mal's reaction comes from a sense of having failed in his responsibility to Tracey. He can't justify what happened, so he doesn't see the point of talking about it.

[Vercingetorix]

I just saw this episode for the first time, and loved it. It's as good as the best of Buffy and Angel, and made me really sad, for the first time, that there are no more Firefly episodes to be had. The use of Tracy's message at the end, the use of Tracy himself to highlight the Simon-Kaylee relationship, and the great great great acting by Fillon and Torres are fantastic. (I thought Burgi overplayed his role, though, as much as I normally love him).

Oddly, I kept comparing this ep to The Outrageous Okona and thinking "this is better." (The first part was odd, I mean, not the second).

I also would have been pissed, but I would have rather pissily said "Stop being an idiot, I don't intend to hand you over" than stand there with my hands up while he's thratening to shoot my pilot spewing some self righteous mumbo jumbo that, while it may be justified, is causing more trouble.

I didn't get this. What was the plan? To shoot Tracy to death so that the gutrunners wouldn't want to either harvest or punish him? How does that sweeten the deal for Tracy? (If Tracy hadn't been dying, at the very least, Burgi would have had to blow up the Serenity to make sure he didn't get away with his theft.)

[mollyann]

It's as good as the best of Buffy and Angel, and made me really sad, for the first time, that there are no more Firefly episodes to be had.

Interesting--my feelings are pretty much exactly the opposite. Okay, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the episode is as bad as the worst of BtVS and AtS, but it comes close.

Out of curiousity, how do you feel about Tracey as a character?

[Vercingetorix]

Out of curiousity, how do you feel about Tracey as a character?

I'm not sure what you mean. I thought he was a plausible character for the circumstances - a kind of manipulative guy who fought alongside Mal and Zoe and never did anything so bad that they cut him off. I bought that he had enough short-term charm to at least interest Kaylee, and I believed that the character would make the choices he did.

I didn't like him, not from the first flashback, but I believed him. He was a screw-up, and a user, but he was one of Mal's, and Mal was going to take care of him, one way or the other.

There are some echos in Buffy and Angel. Angel's failure to "save" Lindsey or that submarine guy, Buffy having to cut off Ford in "Lie to Me," but this was better.

[mollyann]

I agree that Tracey and his actions are believable. What bothers me, as I've mentioned before, is the poignant send-off he gets. I realize that the funeral scene is only manifestly, as opposed to latently*, about him, but I still get annoyed that an otherwise beautiful scene exists only because the characters are mourning an utterly pathetic waste of space. Can you tell I really, really hate Tracey. ;)

I see what you mean about the parallels to Joss's other shows, but they don't really work for me. Ford (and Lindsey, to a lesser extent) managed to be an ultimately sympathetic and even tragic character despite his inexcusable actions. On the other hand, I find nothing even remotely sympathetic about Tracey, which makes Mal's inner conflicts as they relate to him fail to resonate with me.

*Sorry about the random Freudian terminology.

Edited by mollyann, May 12, 2006 @ 8:12 PM.

[cko]

OK, I'm giving in and watching the last disc after hoarding since Christmas. I can see the critiques here but all I can say and feel is that this is an amazing show, with beautiful filming; wonderful worlds (both planets); touching, believable and very human characters (well except the bad guys, and some of them are hot) and even at its weakest can still touch the heart.

[petpluto22]

I had a last disc marathon last night, and although I would have put this episode toward the bottom of my list of Firefly episodes -had someone ever asked me to rank them- I now feel differently.

Previously, I found nothing to really like about Tracey. I found him to be affable enough during the flashback to the war, but the whole betraying Mal thing never sit well with me. Until this last time around. I may be watching the episode again tonight because of this line, "Yeah, well what are you now? What are we now, Mal?" In that one line (and how Jonathan M. Woodward played it), I found Tracey. And I felt sorry for him. I got it, in a way I never got before. Yeah, I always heard the message about how it was the real world he couldn't handle. But it never really hit me about how "The Message" was about Tracey's existential crisis, and how that mirrored Mal's own existential crisis. Both are drifting after the war, after they lost their way. And it made me think about everyone else who has fought in a war and come back home to a world totally foreign -a world that didn't want to contemplate what they had done or seen and a world that didn't want to help integrate them in any way. And at the end, I finally cried for Tracey and the life he lost because he was essentially abandoned by both sides after the war -instead of just crying over the death of my show and for Mal having to carry the bullet that killed his friend.

[cko]

Thanks, petpluto, for these thoughts. You are so right about what Tracey represents. Maybe it seems even more poignant now, with the war going on and on, but I find him to be a very sympathetic character even though I had some problems with the plot and storyline in this episode.

[NiftyKnitter 74]

Speaking of the hat, I was a little distracted by it in the scene where they're all standing around the casket listening to the message. I know they had to do a number of takes (as evidenced by Nathan's antics in the outtakes), but it kept being on and off Jayne's head during the loop. First it's on as they start listening. Jayne takes it off in the pan from the railing, then a direct shot of him showing him pulling it off to hold in his hands. Seconds later, in the background behind Mal and Zoe, he's wearing it again. Then, at the end of the loop, he's behind them again, holding the hat in his hands... Other than that, I thought it was an excellent episode!

[Hanahope]

I always wondered how Tracey survived the first shot. Looked like it was right where his (or his borrowed) heart is.

A little bit more showing how Book seems to know an awful lot about the Alliance, especially those in the 'law enforcement' area.

Funny seeing Simon, as smart and rich, be so awkward around a girl he likes.

[call me ishmael]

I agre Mal didn't owe Tracy an explanation, but the guy was waving a gun around threatening Wash and then took Kaley hostage. Would it really have been too much for Mal to say "We're not handing you over, we have a plan." Rather than the whole "You brought this all down on yourself involving me and mine in your business" speech? It would have saved them some time in the end.

But I doubt that Tracy would have believed him. He didn't ask what was going on--he just grabbed a gun and threatened to shoot. If I were Mal why would I think that explaining it to Tracy would calm him down. Mal would think that Tracy would assume it was just a con--since Tracy assumed that everything at that point was a con. It was the difference between him and Mal all the way back to the war.

[dynamic17]

Funny seeing Simon, as smart and rich, be so awkward around a girl he likes.

Simon's behavior in the opening should go under the definition of awkward, and of snatching defeat out of the hands of victory.

This episode may have the best pre-credits opening with Simon-Kaylee scene, Wash's talking to the fetus (shades of the dinosaur scene from the pilot), Zoe's comeback to Simon, Jayne's reading of the letter and the cunning hat, and River's problematic food.

Another bonus in the DVD version is the commentary by Alan and Jewel, who should have done a lot more commentary.

[Elli DC]

I agree with so many of these well-thought out posts about this episode. I didn't like it very much, especially compared with the brilliance of the rest of the season, but I understood and appreciated what it stands for. Petpluto's post was very insightful, and I would quote the whole thing just to THIS it.

I also loved the pre-credits bit, and I would say the only better opening is the tracking shot in the movie Serenity to introduce everybody. Although Our Mrs Reynolds comes close for me.

Even after only my first viewing, I understand why Mal didn't explain himself to Tracey, tho I wish he had. I saw the parallels to Bushwhacked, with ordering Simon around with no explanations either. I thought, though, that the editing could have been done better to show that the crew really did have a plan, and Tracey only eavesdropped and heard part of it. I just thought that the show was unnecessarily heavy handed with trying to do the "fakeout" with handing him over.

otherwise, if the show had continued, the episode was great in showing another slice of life in space. Aliiance cruises and cops versus the federal marshalls we had mostly seen, the space station with post offices, side show entertainment, and problematic food, and other side characters that could have appeared again.