380 replies to this topic

[MisterZ]

Here's a place to discuss Billie Piper and her portrayal of Rose.

[HeadCase]

I really like Billie Piper as Rose. I've never seen her in anything else but some of the comments I read before the show started gave me low expectations of her. But she is excellent and believable to me.

[Aurelian]

I've heard the argument that she's a Mary Sue especially after The Parting of the Ways, but I never really bought into it. I think with the whole reintroduction thing, and especially with the strides that sci-fi has made on television, you needed a much more well-rounded companion. Now, I haven't seen any of the early stuff, but from what I've heard the companion was basically there to get into trouble. Frankly I prefer a companion who is willing to actively do something.

Probably helps that I had no idea that she was a pop star until after I had seen Who.

[EllycatinOz]

God neither!!! Billie Piper (BP) brings a different angle to Companion. And I am not just talking subtext. She is perfectly beleivable as a modern working class gal along for a ride.
At first I thought she was going to be a Peri - all looks and helpless "Doctor Doctor Doctor!" but she got cooler and found her space by about Ep.3.

I liked how in The End of the World she is suddenly totally overwhelemed and freaked out by her adventure. Nice touch.

Anyway, I think she's the new Buffy. Without, y'know, Slayer powers, but still.

That's what I thought about Ep3 onwards!!!

The next who or who? I don't want to sound too picky, but I feel it's maybe a bit offputting to new viewers to have a thread name which is so obscure to those who don't know the history of the show.

Ah don't be too hard on us old fans!! Besides we can hardly quote from the new series as officially it is spoilery and that would be no fun for US audience either! So what else can we do?


ETA so that I don't cause network ire in multiposting on one thread!

Edited by EllycatinOz, Mar 3, 2006 @ 10:00 PM.

[Promethea]

The next who or who? I don't want to sound too picky, but I feel it's maybe a bit offputting to new viewers to have a thread name which is so obscure to those who don't know the history of the show.

Anyway, I think she's the new Buffy. Without, y'know, Slayer powers, but still.

I loved Rose and was completely won over by Billie Piper, who I'd rather dreaded based on her tabloid reputation for boozy marathons with the ghastly Chris Evans (her ex husband and a major dick). But she nailed the role.

[pinkmoon]

Yep, she totally nailed it. And her chemistry with Eccleston is amazing. Some of the best chemistry I've ever seen. And it's probably something in her because I felt a powerful chemistry between her and David Tennant as well.

[Lady J]

I love Rose. I'm a true sci-fi geek who might have been happy with a more 'traditional' sort of companion, but I think Rose is a great character to introduce more non-genre folks to the series. The fact that she's mostly a realistic 19-year-old girl gives new viewers a great way to introduce themselves into the Who universe. She learns about all these weird things at the same time as the new viewing audience, which is a good device for building an audience, I think!

And, Billie Piper does fantastic things with the role. I've never seen her in anything else - or as a pop star - but she brings just the right combination of normal girl and adventure seeker to Rose. She's made Rose one of my favorite TV characters of the past year.

[Edyn04]

I'm not familiar with the other companions, but I really love Rose. I agree with everyone who says that Billie is pretty great in the role. I hadn't seen her in anything before this, so suddenly seeing her go from pop singer to actress had me wondering if she could act and I was pleasantly surprised when I tuned in to the new Who.

I've heard the argument that she's a Mary Sue especially after The Parting of the Ways, but I never really bought into it. I think with the whole reintroduction thing, and especially with the strides that sci-fi has made on television, you needed a much more well-rounded companion. Now, I haven't seen any of the early stuff, but from what I've heard the companion was basically there to get into trouble. Frankly I prefer a companion who is willing to actively do something.

I agree with this. I think "The Parting of the Ways" was my favorite ep in terms of Rose being pro-active because of her concern for her Doctor (side note: *swoon*) and her relentless pursuit to try and save him.

[FoolishWanderer]

The next who or who?

Peri: known for having big boobs and showing them off. Not the best of companions, competency wise. Also, a fake American accent. For that matter, a victim of bad writing.

Sarah Jane: one of the favourite companions over the years, because she was fairly competent and had great chemistry with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker, the two Doctors she travelled with. Also, the writing was often better during her time on the show.

[Frelling Tralk]

I've heard the argument that she's a Mary Sue

During the Christmas Invasion she was trying her best, but ultimately the aliens laughed at her and it was down to the Doctor to save the day. Which worked for me. Even in Parting Of The Ways, she would have died without trhe Doctor being there to take it from her. So I always see her as a girl who tries her best, but is often lost without the Doctor around to help out. And if she was a Mary Sue, she would probably be a little less bitchy with Mickey *g*

[FoolishWanderer]

I feel that all fairly competent major characters tend to get somewhat Mary Sueish, simply because they're put into any amount of danger on a regular basis, and it's up to them to get out of it. However, if I like the character, and enjoy watching them use their wits or whatever to save the day, then I don't complain. It's only if I dislike the goings on that I start talking about Mary Sue.

All this is JMO.

[Frelling Tralk]

I think that Billie Piper is not exactly attractive in my eyes (though I do know that in Britain her type is considered to be very attractive).

Type?

[fadooski]

Well, when I'm watching an episode, I like her. But when I think about the character afterwards I don't. So...
I like Billie but not Rose?

Peri is a better comparisson in terms of what she contributes to the adventure. Having said that Peri's initiation into wandering the fourth dimension was rough (Caves of Androzani). Sarah-Jane doesn't work well for a comparisson because, while she was a young woman when she travelled with the Doctor, she was still a woman. She had a career that she was developing, she had an education and she took the initiative in a way that I wouldn't find credible in a teenaged girl. Also, Sarah-Jane was introduced as a feminist character, at least intially. Rose strikes me as more apolitically post-feminist (I'm not a feminist! I'm pretty and I like boys and shopping!).

Actually, Jo Grant might be a more useful comparison. She was blatantly in love with the 3rd Doctor and married an environmental activist who reminded her of him. Rose is in love with the Doctor and her intial flirtatious interractions with Jack are based on a comparison with the 9th Doctor

I agree with Laserbeak, Rose is nowhere near the best companion and far, far from the worst.

Edited by fadooski, Mar 4, 2006 @ 3:55 PM.

[Chiriru]

In short, she doesn't exactly make it into my top ten list of best companions, but also not the top ten list of worst companions.

Word. My problem with Rose - besides finding her diction annoyingly slurry from time to time - is that I find her boring. She's just there. Rose is in danger? Anne-droid is going to turn her into dust? Oh, well. I think BP is a competent actress at best, and I just don't think the character is nearly internersting enough to garner the taking of companion subtext into text with.

Although I know having grown up on Who, I personally perfer the more traditional type of companions - and I'm hoping once Piper leaves, which really can't be soon enough for me because her Blahness almost rivals Lana Lang's of SV for me, we'll return to more traditional Who. They've already done it with Tennant so and after Christmas Invasion, I really think Mickey's being groomed for potiental companionship and I hope he is; I think he brings a lot more interesting facets to the table.

[jeet]

[SPECULATION]Mickey replacing Rose would be a keen idea.[/SPECULATION]

Cool beans.

[Promethea]

Ehh, each to their own, but I'd hate that. I don't mind Mickey but I like Rose much more. I don't see what's so great about companions who just simper. The only traditional companion I can remember liking was Leela and that was because she looked cool and tried to knife people.

Edited by Promethea, Mar 4, 2006 @ 9:34 PM.

[Aurelian]

Count me in the also hating it group. Rose may be my first companion, but I really like the way that she and Doctor interact. I don't find her bland at all. Besides, Mickey annoys me half the time.

Edited by Aurelian, Mar 4, 2006 @ 8:39 PM.

[Hermetic]

One thing I don't like about Rose, and it's my biggest complaint with the new series as a whole, is the way that we keep winding up in London, 2005, hanging out with her mother and not-quite boyfriend. Though thinking about it, maybe with the Doctor's intensified dislocation and loneliness, he doesn't want to put someone else through that as well. (Or maybe with the Tardis' new dislocation and loneliness..)

That's not really her fault, but it keeps me from putting her near the top of my all-time favorites. (Romana II, Sarah Jane Smith, Nyssa, and, um, Adric. And the Brigadier if he can count.)

[FoolishWanderer]

Adric? You must explain this. Please!

[Frelling Tralk]

I didn't mind the visits back to earth during season 1. But I'm hoping that season 2 will see them getting away from that dreary estate, and out exploring alien worlds more. Maybe it was necessary for the transition period, and I like both Jackie and Mickey, but I'm ready to move on now.

[xtreme]

And the Brigadier if he can count

Of course the Brigadier counts, he was the Jackie Tyler of his time, except that he never slapped the Doctor

[Kid Dork]

I never really thought Peri's boobs were all that big. I think fan fiction writers did, and so did John Nathan Turner. Which would explain all the naff Eighties crapwear he put Nicola Bryant in.

I think Peri really came into her own as a companion with the Big Finish audios, so I'll agree with you that she wasn't the best companion then, FoolishWanderer.

As for Rose, I adore her. And it's not just because of the way she fills out a pair of blue jeans. I like the fact that Rose is so not-Hollywood: she's a little heavier than the average starlet, her hair is often a mess, and her beauty is more of character than of pin up girl gorgeous.

Oh, and Billie Piper can act. That helps.

[Tirtzah]

Frelling Tralk,

I didn't mind the visits back to earth during season 1. But I'm hoping that season 2 will see them getting away from that dreary estate, and out exploring alien worlds more. Maybe it was necessary for the transition period, and I like both Jackie and Mickey, but I'm ready to move on now.

This may be very slightly spoilerish for the second season: I believe in the commentary for "The Christmas Invasion" (from the BBC website) RTD and Julie Gardner said that they would be trying to explore more alien worlds in the next season.

As for Rose, I adore her. And it's not just because of the way she fills out a pair of blue jeans. I like the fact that Rose is so not-Hollywood: she's a little heavier than the average starlet, her hair is often a mess, and her beauty is more of character than of pin up girl gorgeous.

I agree Kid Dork, she's not the cookie cutter Hollywood-type beauty. She's a very pretty but normal looking girl who is obviousl athletic (all that running around), but not a twig. In later season of Buffy I always had a hard time buying her kicking ass when SMG looked like a strong wind might snap her in half. I also really love Rose's wardrobe, jeans and t-shirts and little hoodie jackets, nothing too flashy. The kind of comfortable clothing normal girls wear all the time.

Edited by Tirtzah, Mar 5, 2006 @ 10:41 AM.

[Just'sin]

My favourite traditional companions - Sarah Jane, Leela, the Romanas - never just simpered. They always did something.

Sarah Jane ALWAYS had the guts, even in her first outing with the Thrid Doctor she was great. Lying her way into the top secret science think tank? Now that's what I call proactive. I just couldn't see Rose being able to do that. And for all of this subtext in the new series, the closeness of Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor is unbeatable.

The only traditional companion I can remember liking was Leela and that was because she looked cool and tried to knife people.

HAH! So true. Leela is great because she's feisty and her first instinct is protect herself. She doesn't scream once in The Face of Evil or The Robots of Death and she only screams in The Talons of Weng Chiang because there is a giant rat chomping on her lower half.

I feel that Rose is planted half way between these two, but does not compare to either. I feel that Rose isn't as good as these companions. I don't know why. It's not the character, but rather I feel that I am being forced to like her. Maybe it was the constant press about Rose being so DIFFERENT from any other companion. If I hadn't had to wade through all that crap, I would enjoy her a lot more.

Part of me also believes that if Ace had been better written, she would have been like Rose. She was also another non-screamer. I don't remember her ever screaming.

Also, why does the Doctor have to fancy Rose? It drives me CRAZY! I guess I have a problem with the way Russell T Davies is writing the series. I know the show had to move with the times, but the gay characters and jarring romantic subtext is really grating at times.

[B. Will]

Just'sin:

Lying her way into the top secret science think tank? Now that's what I call proactive. I just couldn't see Rose being able to do that.

I have to agree with you there, especially after watching her try to tell the Sycorax to sod off in "The Christmas Invasion." Rose just didn't have the confidence to do it, while I think Romana or Sarah Jane certainly would.

It's not the character, but rather I feel that I am being forced to like her.

I rather like Rose, but I have to agree with you here. Throughout the first series, it felt like we were being beaten over the head with how much we should love Rose, because so many characters (The Doctor, Captain Jack, Adam) were instantly and completely devoted to her.

[Nuallain]

I've heard the argument that she's a Mary Sue

I can't buy that, simply because a 6'7" 40something gay middle class Welshmen writing himself into the series as a 17 year old English working class girl would be... a cunning disguise to put it mildly.

Captain Jack would be a better candidate for Mary Sue status, except for it being Steven Moffatt who made him that "RTD Meets James Bond" way, not RTD.

[fadooski]

My thing with Rose is that I cannot imagine her having any adventures of her own. What exactly is she going to do once she stops travelling with the Doctor? I can't imagine her going back to school to get a career, nor can I imagine her living her life on an alien world. Really, she's just going to move back in with her mom find a customer service job and try to reel in Mickey again She's dependent on the Doctor in a way that clashes with the heroic way that we're supposed to see her.

Sarah Jane's first story had her operating independently of the Doctor till towards the end. My favourite scene from The Time Warrior was when she's talking to the 'good' nobleman, his wife and his head knight about capturing the doctor. They're all "Oh, hell no! we can't" and she's like: "What's wrong with you people? We do it like a commando raid or something. We knock out the guards, sneak in grab the Doctor and get out!"

Contrast this with every time Rose has been faced with a situation on her own. She cries for the Doctor to come and fix things. To her, he's a knight in shining armor who dazzles her with sophisticated technology, holds her hand, stares into her eyes, and saves her from monsters. Sarah-Jane was her own knight.

And I totally agree with Just'sin, the way Rose was marketed as a 'new' companion for the 21st century made me roll my eyes. Doctor who doesn't need to be like Buffy or any other sci-fi show. It has decades of it's own history that makes it distinct within genre TV.

I have a question: what does everyone think of Rose being so young? She's not the only one. Susan, Ace, Adric and Nyssa were about 15 or 16. Peri was about the same age as Rose. Turlough was supposed to be a schoolboy. Lots of the Doctor's comapnions were adolescents. However, a good number of them were grown men and women too. How does Rose being a younger companion fit into the show returning? And, for those who've seen the show, how does it affect you perception of the erotic tension between her and the Doctor?

[Promethea]

Hang on, did you see the last episode? Wasn't that precisely the point, that Rose had the option of returning to her old life but she couldn't do it; she did take action, came up with a plan (with the help of Mickey and Jackie) and went to save the Doctor. She explicitly said that she'd been shown a new way of living, a better way, that entailed not giving up and trying to do the right thing, and clearly had internalised it. Okay, she wasn't this heroic capable figure from day one (although there were flashes, such as swinging to the rescue in episode one, taking the initiative to find an escape route downwards in The Doctor Dances, etc) but that's what she became.

Edited by Promethea, Mar 6, 2006 @ 6:42 PM.

[furrylump]

Rose gets in trouble every episode, but she still isn't just there to be saved. She's not quite the Lana Lang I think because she has opinions and takes action on them. However I do think she can be a huge idiot sometimes. She's almost rivalling Medium's Allison. The best example of this would have to be the first half of The Empty/Unearthly Child, which, by the way, was super funny. Which in itself is kinda funny, because you go over to the comments on the ep for the BBC site and a lot of them say how terrifying it was, and a lot of the episode I was roaring with laughter. That's like this time I rented The Grudge on DVD, and for me, the best bit was when I watched that bit where Yoko was slowly walking down the steps, and I found out if I played it in fast foward she was doing what looked like drunken penguin walking. Seriously if you have it or rent it, try that. And I've just been babbling and have gone completely off topic.
Back on track, I wish she remembered what happened while she was full of TARDIS soul and stuff.